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Decriminalisation of Drugs and Cannabis

Started by ArMaP, July 04, 2012, 01:59:52 AM

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Fruitbat

#60
July 12, 2012, 12:33:08 AM Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 12:36:59 AM by Fruitbat
One does have to wonder how many of those "psychoses" would have been caused by the combination of cannabis and alcohol, which even back in 1981 was known to cause schizophrenia to be manifested in some people when the two drugs are taken in combination? (Data appeared in  the Lancet back in mid to late 1981).
Fruitbat!

(graduate of the school of life, half century of classes taken and passed, still doesn't mean I know enough to be condescending to the next man or woman I speak to..)

Quote from: Pimander on July 11, 2012, 06:29:04 PM
From the scientific literature.  I am a pharmacology graduate.  where do you get yours. ::)

Fruitbat

#61
July 12, 2012, 01:01:26 AM
And for the record it IS possible to overdose on cannabis!

SWIM managed to make himself throw up the other day for the first time ever (after 34 years of regular use, it came as quite the surprise I can tell you!) due to excessive consumption of the drug.

I wish they would legalise it, under the present paradigm the strength of the product is just ever increasing to the point whereby the time you can taste the damn stuff you get too ripped to function properly!

It's getting really annoying. And yes, it does help certain people with anger management issues. It's use  does tend to make people more considerate and aware of the bigger picture, both of which are good things. It also seems to help with the impulse control problem that people who have AD can have issues with. I have never seen a room full of pot smokers erupt into violence either, or come to think of it any other form of strenuous activity.

It doesn't help in the workplace though, so you do have to give that first spliff in the morning a miss if you are working, and I'd always recommend that people allow themselves a bit of time off it occasionally, just to remember what life is like for the poor people who don't get to share in it's benefits.. :c)

Is it good, is it bad? I'd say it's just different, and when considered impassionately, maybe best avoided if you don't feel the need, but given a choice between drinking alcohol or smoking pot for SWIM, simply on grounds of "personal safety", it's a no-brainer...

watchZEITGEISTnow

#62
July 12, 2012, 04:20:01 AM
pharmacology:If substances have medicinal properties, they are considered pharmaceuticals.

Interesting that cannabis is considered medicine. Alcohol is not (disinfectant maybe). I find people that have such a strong opposition to cannabis - are quite happy consuming and promoting a depressant: alcohol.

Also must be towing the party line in views on anything the FDA says eh? I guess you support vaccinations too right? Because that's what 'they' say is good for you. You have no choice but to comply or you don't get a pretty certificate, that then lets you sell a lot of addictive drugs - big pharma - so people can happily be addicted and in need of them for the rest of their lives.

Cannabis is NOT the problem. Narrow minded, speculative old views are.

Littleenki

#63
July 12, 2012, 04:46:56 AM
People should be allowed to do whatever they choose, and if they want to get high, so be it, just not on my payroll, or roads.
Any more than alchohol, which in my opinion is far more destructive than pot.

I never saw an angry pothead, except when they didnt have any more, and everyone I have seen drinking excessively, has irritated me to no end, so six in one, half a dozen in the other to me, just be careful with power tools!;)

Now if you want to see something scary, read this about the spice ...JWH to be exact..a powerful cannabinoid agonist which supposedly mimics pot, but is more like lsd or ecstasy.

And very addictive as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JWH-018

QuoteJWH-018 is a full agonist of both the CB1 and CB2 cannabinoid receptors, with a reported binding affinity of 9.00±5.00 nM at CB1 and 2.94±2.65 nM at CB2.[13]

JWH-018 administered to rats resulted in the excretion of an indole-N-desalkyl metabolite as well as several hydroxylated metabolites in urine. The highest signals were observed for the hydroxylated N-desalkyl metabolites. Hydroxylation took place on the side chain and in both aromatic systems, the naphthalene and the indole rings, as could be shown by mass shift of the corresponding fragments and by MS3 experiments.[14] Human metabolites were similar although most metabolism took place on the indole ring and pentyl side chain, and the hydroxylated metabolites were extensively conjugated with glucuronide.[15]

Legal high, research chemical? BullSh!t!

When kids are doing this stuff to avoid prosecution, whats the deal with our lawmakers?

Le
Hermetically sealed, for your protection

Amaterasu

#64
July 12, 2012, 06:04:39 AM
Quote from: Pimander on July 11, 2012, 06:29:04 PM
From the scientific literature.  I am a pharmacology graduate.  where do you get yours. ::)

And who writes this literature...?  Any with a vested interest in maintaining a demonified status of the herb...?  Surely, with all the evidence in other arenas of science of tainted information, We might want to examine pharmacoloy for any such taint as well.  [smile]
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Amaterasu

#65
July 12, 2012, 06:11:54 AM
Quote from: Linda Brown on July 11, 2012, 06:58:44 PM
"There is no such thing as "addicted..."

Surely you jest.

Linda

When it comes to cannabis, no.  There isn't.  Even in the "scientific" literature, the claims are made of a "psychological" addiction.  But I contend it is merely the reliance on the stress relief that is being described.  Remove the pain meds from a sufferer of chronic pain, and the pain returns.  Same with those treating stress.  NOT an "addiction."  A reliance on relief.

Did You think I was speaking generally?  Sorry if I failed to clarify.  As One ADDICTED to nicotine and caffiene, I assure You, I KNOW there are addictive substances.  Just that pot is NOT one of them.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Amaterasu

#66
July 12, 2012, 06:25:02 AM
Quote from: Littleenki on July 11, 2012, 09:56:58 PM
Becoming an addict can be an overnight process for some, and others it takes a while longer. It depends on the amount of drug ingested on a regular basis, more and youre hooked quicker, and infrequent, and all it takes is a binge or consecutive days intoxicated, but when dealing with any drug or alchohol abuse, there is a definite reality to addiction, and a timeline to become addicted.

A fine line it is, and some can abuse drugs with abandon one day and have no craving the next.

Its really as Amy says a control thing though, as the govt likes to keep its sheeple well in control, and drugs are a perfect medium for such activity.

Especially legal ones like the big pharma crap!

Just ask the CIA, who deals the most drugs anywhere....

Yep!

Le

Well, as SWIM used to ingest VAST quantities, daily, for years, and hasn't had access for financial reasons lately, SWIM can attest to a mild sadness that the joint pains and stress are no longer relieved.  SWIM is looking forward to a time when SWIM can again use SWIM's medicine because living in pain is less than optimal, but SWIM will not use any other pain meds.  Despite abrupt removal from use, SWIM never experienced withdrawal, sweating and anguish, fixation on the idea of cannabis, desperation, panic, craving, nervousness, blinding headaches,  inability to focus on other thing, etc., such as SWIM experiences trying to quit nicotine and caffeine.

SWIM just thinks it's sad that such an effective pain reliever is unavailable to SWIM. 

No.  Cannabis is NOT addicting, but for those it helps with the many issues it helps with, taking it away leaves Them unrelieved.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

ArMaP

#68
July 12, 2012, 01:55:59 PM
Quote from: Amaterasu on July 12, 2012, 07:01:27 AM
Links for those who claim cannabis is an issue behind the wheel
If it reduces the reaction time, then it's an issue.

I know a woman that was married with a guy (he already died) that was an alcoholic, and she was never afraid of having an accident when he was driving while drunk because he didn't change the way he acted, the only problem was the reduced reaction time that once (as far as I know) almost made him provoke an accident.

Amaterasu

#69
July 12, 2012, 03:56:52 PM
It turns out that hundreds of thousands of People drive using cannabis every day.  Many more than drive drunk.  Yet there are not the problems with pot as with alcohol.  If there were, We would see far more accidents than We do.

Many tests show no deterioration in skills.  The suspect studies - mostly those calling it "marihuana" (note the "h" in place of the "j") - the .gov, and media sites will tell You otherwise.  But then, We believe EVERYTHING They and Their corporate sponsors/masters tell Us, right?

A key factor to keep in mind is whether We are speaking of novice or experienced users.  There is a BIG difference.  It should come with a label that says, "Do not dive until You know how this herb will affect You."  Some of the government studies and other biased studies took People who were novice users - even those who had never used before - and ran the tests.  And then, yes.  There can be issues.

But amongst experienced users there is none.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

Pimander

#70
July 12, 2012, 04:21:52 PM
Quote from: Amaterasu on July 12, 2012, 06:04:39 AM
And who writes this literature...?  Any with a vested interest in maintaining a demonified status of the herb...?  Surely, with all the evidence in other arenas of science of tainted information, We might want to examine pharmacoloy for any such taint as well.  [smile]
Yes, the pharmaceuticals industry has tainted a lot of research by its influence.  That's Capitalism for you!  However, if you read my considered and rational points....

1.  Smoked in reasonably low doses, Cannabis does not cause permanent neurological or psychological damage.

2.  Long term heavy Cannabis use has been shown to cause neurological and psychological problems. 



QuoteThese results provide new evidence of exposure-related structural abnormalities in the hippocampus and amygdala in long-term heavy cannabis users and corroborate similar findings in the animal literature. These findings indicate that heavy daily cannabis use across protracted periods exerts harmful effects on brain tissue and mental health.
SOURCE: http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=482744


For the record, I am pro decriminalisation of drugs.  However, any drug if overused is likely to cause unwanted side-effects.  There are very few psychoactive drugs that cause no unwanted side-effects.  You are aware of the number of people who have agoraphobia today due to smoking cannabis as an adolescent?

Sensible recreational Cannabis use is a matter of personal choice and, effects on the lungs aside, unlikely to cause you much harm.  But don't try to make it out to be some cure all or side effect free drug.  There is no such thing.

Amaterasu

#71
July 12, 2012, 04:45:23 PM
My next questions to You are:

Who did this study with the cute chart there?

What evidence is there that these "abnormalities" are an issue, in any real sense (presuming the study is trustworthy)?

Not starting an argument...  [smile]  Just don't trust the studies when SWIM has a lot of first hand experience that often goes against the claims made "studies."  At one time We were told there was evidence that it cause One to become a homicidal maniac, and in the congressional record of 1934 it was claimed to caused "brother to kill brother," and "negro men to rape white women..."

So You can see why I am dubious of studies.  Many lies have been fabricated.
"If the universe is made of mostly Dark Energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"

"If You want peace, take the profit out of war."

rose

#72
July 12, 2012, 04:47:43 PM
Quote"Do not dive until You know how this herb will affect You."

Why on earth would anyone want to dive and smoke? You'd get your doobie all wet.

(Sorry, Amy. I just couldn't help myself.)
rose

The Executioner

#73
July 12, 2012, 05:05:35 PM
Quote from: Amaterasu on July 12, 2012, 04:45:23 PM
What evidence is there that these "abnormalities" are an issue, in any real sense (presuming the study is trustworthy)?
You need to take a degree to understand all of the evidence.  That is why we have experts.  It baffles me how people want experts on a forum but when one comes along and gives you the straight up facts you won't listen.

Oh, and abnormalities in amygdala and hippocampal volumes are associated with psychosis and many psychological disorders.  I am not doing a course on psychopharmacology on this thread but if you wish to start a thread on neuro-imaging and psychological disorders I'll be happy to add my comments.

Littleenki

#74
July 12, 2012, 05:10:59 PM
Quote from: The Executioner on July 12, 2012, 05:05:35 PM
You need to take a degree to understand all of the evidence.  That is why we have experts.  It baffles me how people want experts on a forum but when one comes along and gives you the straight up facts you won't listen.

Oh, and abnormalities in amygdala and hippocampal volumes are associated with psychosis and many psychological disorders.  I am not doing a course on psychopharmacology on this thread but if you wish to start a thread on neuro-imaging and psychological disorders I'll be happy to add my comments.
Indeed, Ex!
Balance in the brain is the simple way to put a complex issue!

I have been doing some research on JWH and it's effect on the two sides of the brain, and wonder if youve got any ideas or theories on the substance and its subsequent pharmacology as most things online pertain to people describing how "stoned" and "wasted" they get...not very empirical if ya know what I mean!LOL

Clemson has their stuff locked down, but maybe youve got a way to get in there(credentials?)
Cheers,
Le
Hermetically sealed, for your protection
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