UFO SIGHTINGS: MUFON Cases - 2 UFOs Photographed Over McAlester, Oklahoma

[ArMaP]

I took a photo with the settings the closest I could get to the original and pointing to the north, as the photographer said he did, but there are three problems:
1 - It's a different camera, with a different lens and sensor
2 - I zoomed in too much
3 - Not knowing the location of the original photo we cannot know how long it was since the setting of the sun, more to the north would have more light than what I have here at the same time, more to the south and it would have less light.

The result is too dark, but the image is here.

That's why I think that the original photo looks like a photo taken after sunset, pointing to the north.

PS: sorry for the slow server, it was the only way I found to post the photo without losing the EXIF data.

[deuem]

Armap, the difference is on how you post. No matter what I do and now others, all you do is pick it apart. You act like a vulture waiting for prey to fall. You never once started anything yourself. You are just one of those members that sit back and look for a fresh kill to chew on. In my post I did write it was IMHO and that is not good enough for you.

YOU ARE ACTING LIKE A TROLL.

If you got nothing to say of your own then just don't post. If you ever come up with an original idea, then post it. And we can then vulture you.

What you are doing rather you understand it or not is driving people away from this site. You are keeping a lot of people from posting because they are afraid of the Armap vulture will come in for dinner.

Armap, I know very well that you have never understood what I do. Still don't and never will. That is not my problem. I know you want to be Mr.analitical and many of us want to add artistic value to what we do. To express what we think. You have a hard time with that and take a stance of resistance no matter what the post is.

I would bet a weeks pay if I took the side of this photo being real that you would have linned up on the hoax side.

If you can't see the sun rays in my work then you never will. They are clearly above the horizon A sunset photo only has arcs above the horizon. I don't know of any clearer way to show this. I have done several hundred sun photos to back this idea up. What have you done?

If you can't see the shadows in the photo, again that is not my problem. They are very clear. Even the one under the tree. It goes out to the road.

I can not tell yet if this was don early morning or early afternoon. Would have to work on it more for NESW dirrections.

I took his original into photoshop and only did auto levels and the daytime print came out. The only way that would work is if it was daytime to begin with and then he changed the levels to make it dusk. I can process night time shoots for the rest of my life with auto levels and not get this. On a questionable shot I do this trick and many more. When you change a photo, you can change it back. When it is real you can not change it like this. You just make the dark lighter. Colors do not pop out, shadows do not pop out and it does not change the sun angle.

And please stop using the English chruch. When you want to pick ( snack on members ), the Engish comes out faster than a machine gun. So you know how to use it when you want too.

Bottom line, if you don't like what I posted, do a better job with your own work and stop nibbling on everyone else who tries. We are here to make friends, not chew on them for lunch.

Please notice where I wrote " Do a better job with your own work "  Stop building your name by eating us...

Thanks

[The Matrix Traveller]

Hi deuem,

Don't let ArMaP get you down.... he attacks everyone.

Perhaps it is just a habit of his or an inferiority complex, quite common in this Program.
(Human and Earth Environment)   

In fact it is more common in the human species than not...

Just laugh it off...   

Some of us do find your work very interesting.... So keep up the good work there D... 

[deuem]

Hi Matrix,

I am laughing it off. It is not me I am worried about, it is the rest of the people that won't post because of it. People have even told this to me. This is how Trolls work. They nag at everything till good people quit and they are left at the top of the world. last man standing deal. Any good people bail because they don't want to fight or get ridiculed. They just go back to what ever they were doing before. Debating is fun and I like it. Being picked apart for vulture food is not. And when good people go bad and start using the wrong words, they get banned. Lok at ATS and others what happens. It is a game Trolls play to stay on top. If they are not on top then they go looking for food. They never do their own work like we do. They just feed on us.

[The Matrix Traveller]

Hi Matrix,

I am laughing it off. It is not me I am worried about, it is the rest of the people that won't post because of it. People have even told this to me. This is how Trolls work. They nag at everything till good people quit and they are left at the top of the world. last man standing deal. Any good people bail because they don't want to fight or get ridiculed. They just go back to what ever they were doing before. Debating is fun and I like it. Being picked apart for vulture food is not. And when good people go bad and start using the wrong words, they get banned. Lok at ATS and others what happens. It is a game Trolls play to stay on top. If they are not on top then they go looking for food. They never do their own work like we do. They just feed on us.

Hi deuem,

I know exactly how you feel, as I have been there many times myself, and yes you are right,
others do suffer and miss out on a lot of valuable information due to someone trolling.

But that is what trolls desire... to cover/hide their lack of knowledge regarding what the writer
is portraying.

[sky otter]

ok guys.. i'm gonna go against the flow here...

yeah ArMaP can be a bit picky..but i like that in him...
all those question help me out on most things...if it's redundant - i skip over  to the next post

maybe some of it is language..english is not his native tongue

but
i like that he asks a lot of questions
and is not good with the BS factor

maybe he gets too picky some time
but i have found that if you are on line at all
you had better grow a nice thick skin
or go sit on your fingers somewhere
or just don't answer....ya know..the old walk away thing

i know i haven't done it every time and my fat little fingers can spit fire now and then
i claim being human  on those occasions..lol   

and i always try to remember the four agreement

not to take anything personally...that really gets you a step away from attack or poking or
just those old troll

here's the short version

The Four Agreements Quotes

"The Four Agreements
1. Be impeccable with your word.
2. Don't take anything personally.
3. Don't make assumptions.
4. Always do your best. "
? Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom


boy talk about bein preachy, huh.!!!

guess i better go back to pulling weeds

hugs

[deuem]

Being thick skinned is one thing but even rinos get eaten by vultures. No boby on this site needs to be asked the same dumb questions over and over again for our life here. I can remember just a month ago you wanting out for a similar reason. I don't wan't out I want the hunting to stop.

People from all over the world ask Deuem questions and I have never not returned some answer. It is the religious nit-picking of any entity me feels like nawing on that is very trollish.

With real debates you don't attack, you come up with a better plan and win from reason not picking.

For more than 4 years i have used the same program within Deuem to calculate the suns rays. I have done hundreds of them. From the Earth to the Moon. Even Mars. I have done them with the Sun in the picture and not in the photo. It is a safe bet that it shows the Suns rays 1,000 times better than maybe a UFO. I have done how many sunset shots for you, (SKY) Does anyone besides be actuatly look at them or is it for nothing. Look at the arcs of sun light. Where are they. When the sun drops on the horizon it will no longer show bottoms arcs. Just top arcs. Unless there is a water or mist refelection.

This is as proven to me as 1+1=2
Deuem is a tool in my software kit. It is very reliable for certain things and under an individuals interpetation for others. ( such as UFOs )

So I say again in big letters for all to see "IMHO" whick means to me an opinion, not force fed, not picking on any of us. Just what I think! Anyone can write what ever they think it is. To me this picture is a classic fraud from the start with built in faults including the time of day, which I hope I proved at least to myself. If a person would fake the time of day then the rest of the photo is questionable for sure. This is the first step in forensic work. Start with the entire photo and the story and move in to the details.

Remember most of all, none of us get paid for doing anything here. We only do it because we like it. We like it because it opens each others minds to new adventures.

If you gave me a free pie and I turned around and tossed in your face, would you be happy or give me another so I could do it again. If we plan on working together for years to come the internal nit-picking needs to turn to debating and focused work. Other wise it will end up a food feast and the good people will leave first. Ron will have only vultures left.

[1Worldwatcher]

As far as what the Deuem Process pulls out, it fit's with the explanation that Deuem has given for further understanding, but I personally think there is more information about these rendering's of the process that needs absolutes or at least a proper math too discover exactly what it is being seen with in the images.

I will absolutely admit and submit my inability with in photographic prowess and understanding (But that is seemingly changing as of the time I have met Deuem and his process. ) and I am aware or ArMaps abilities of looking into such presented images and UFO type of evidence, just think that maybe ArMap can't see the tree's for the forest it present's. "IMHO" LOL

If we continually go by the "OLD" standards of what we know about photography and what kind of advancements can be acclimated for furthering research of such thing's, i.e. namely Deuem's Process.

I have no issue's accepting that the image would be considered 'Altered' as it were, but by the understanding I am coming too for the process and what it does, it is being 'Altered' too pull out greater detail of the information that we would not normally see with in such photo's or video's. If we are too just accept the basic science's with such photographic advancement, we would probably not have anything remotely capable of Night vision or Full Spectrum technologies to better understand under what condition what is actually there we cannot normally see with in the natural visual abilities of the naked eye perspective.

I do respect ArMAp greatly, but I also believe he has too start thinking out side the box for fuller understanding of what Deuem Process may be telling us to advance it too give a categorical understanding with in the Photographer community. It is something that most scientific minded people would think as a brilliant break through for such applications for detecting light and photon interactions in a very profound and meaningful way, and that is what is the most important when all thing's that we 'Think' we understand about such thing's as photography and advancement to further the field of the research, not hinder it with the something of known explanation, for it is not of this genre of photography we are seeing with in the processed images and videos. IMHO

Deuem has done some work ups for me as well Sky, and all I can say is "It is doing something that I have never really even considered before." it is revolutionary and quite basically, "Amazing!!" because if it is doing what "I think" it is doing, it will set a standard that has quite promising future with in all the Hoaxed and Skeptic's idea's of the UFO topical dissuasive understanding to lay rest to these types of thing's from thwarting the truth's that are out there.

There is so much more I could add in this conversation, but I wish too stick to the topic at hand of these apparently Hoaxed UFO's and there by setting a new decisive quandary with out any question if what we are truly looking at and too be able to toss the garbage out and respect the true images submitted.

With Great Respect,
1Worldwatcher

ETA: Fixed 'Greta' for Z....LOL Or he'll pick on me..

[ArMaP]

You never once started anything yourself.

That's true, probably because I'm not that much of an imaginative person and probably because, in the past, whenever I started a thread (on another forum) nobody looked interested in the topic.

If you got nothing to say of your own then just don't post. If you ever come up with an original idea, then post it. And we can then vulture you.

Why can't I post my opinion about what other people post?

What you are doing rather you understand it or not is driving people away from this site. You are keeping a lot of people from posting because they are afraid of the Armap vulture will come in for dinner.

That may be true, in the same way some people may be kept from joining because they see too much imagination and too little facts, I don't have any way of knowing what happens.

Armap, I know very well that you have never understood what I do. Still don't and never will.

That's your opinion.

I know you want to be Mr.analitical and many of us want to add artistic value to what we do. To express what we think. You have a hard time with that and take a stance of resistance no matter what the post is.

I don't have a problem with artistic value or artistic interpretations, I just don't like to see it presented as truth.

I would bet a weeks pay if I took the side of this photo being real that you would have linned up on the hoax side.

My opinion is always based on the material being presented, never on the person that presents it.

If you can't see the sun rays in my work then you never will.

Answer me this, please: are there really sun rays in the processed image or pixels that you interpret as sun rays?

They are clearly above the horizon A sunset photo only has arcs above the horizon. I don't know of any clearer way to show this. I have done several hundred sun photos to back this idea up. What have you done?

I have done hundreds of photos of the sky, at several times of day and night, and I base my opinions on the real photos, not on processed data.

If you can't see the shadows in the photo, again that is not my problem. They are very clear. Even the one under the tree. It goes out to the road.

That may be a question of definitions. To me, a shadow has clearly defined edges, resulting from the light rays of a direct light source being blocked by something. I don't see anything like that on the photo, as all the darker areas have blurred edges, and that happens where the light is not coming from a direct light source either from many, weaker light sources of from indirect sources.

I can not tell yet if this was don early morning or early afternoon. Would have to work on it more for NESW dirrections.

True, I am basing my opinion on what the photographer said, I always take that into account, as I wasn't there myself.

I took his original into photoshop and only did auto levels and the daytime print came out.

That's what the auto levels does, it changes the light levels to make the photo visible, even when the original is too dark (it's the equivalent of allowing for a longer exposure of the paper when printing a photo in a lab), it doesn't mean that the photo was taken during the day.

The only way that would work is if it was daytime to begin with and then he changed the levels to make it dusk.

No, try it with a photo that you know was taken after sunset and you will see.

When you change a photo, you can change it back.

No, some changes, like the light levels, are not reversible, as you will get less colours/shades after doing that.

And please stop using the English chruch. When you want to pick ( snack on members ), the Engish comes out faster than a machine gun. So you know how to use it when you want too.

Did I say anything about that in this thread? Where?

Bottom line, if you don't like what I posted, do a better job with your own work and stop nibbling on everyone else who tries. We are here to make friends, not chew on them for lunch.

Please notice where I wrote " Do a better job with your own work "  Stop building your name by eating us...

I'm not building any name, I don't even care about that, I have more important things to do, like playing Zombie Lane. 

[Elvis Hendrix]

Easy now.
After many years of watching I think  that Amap is a decent chap.
He's come here with a pretty open mind, and in my book, that's good enough.
Would you want to be having this discussion with phage?

Maybe
Maybe not.

Elvis

[1Worldwatcher]

Easy now.

All is good Elvis, has been coming to an end the past few months, but really isn't a big deal.

After many years of watching I think  that Amap is a decent chap.

As do I Elvis, he has taught me much about a few things, mainly photography as of late, but not by negativity, he has always been the UFO/Image guy, but Deuem's process bring's a fresh 'NEW' idea into the image classification realm's.

He's come here with a pretty open mind, and in my book, that's good enough.

That may not be an entirely true analogy, but, for what it is worth, he does have a lot of 'Taught' knowledge to share, and has done so in explanation's of some topic's I do not have a good grasp on. Just that there is very little he knows about Deuem, but knows much more about Photo processing than I, so is very informative guy for sure.

Would you want to be having this discussion with phage?
Maybe
Maybe not.
Elvis

LOL, how did Phage get into this conversation. Ha ha ha ha!

Just know that we do respect ArMap, just have too realize the full reason of why we are here and for how many times this seems to happen with him. he is not as open minded as you may think, but he is knowledgeable none the less, and does deserve merit for that part of his intellect.

1WW

[deuem]

I don't know who or what phage is. If I get banned, I will retire. So if Phage is going to do that, so be it. I don't get paid here.

This is exactly what Trolls do. They take a stance against good people until we break and leave the site so they remain on the top of the hill.

I am starting to get pissed off.

If every post you made I came in against it so would you.

Armap, you don't understand the math behind what I do and you never ever will. If you think for one second that those are not sun rays. what do you think they are. flowers in the sky. Me hand drawing the arcs in. Lucy in the sky with diamonds. Reflections off the moon? If you can, prove there not! You say you can't see the shadows? Are you kidding me? Are you looking at the same photo the rest of us are?

Yes you can post about what other people post. That is a good forum. You don't have to chew on them. How many of us have to complain to you about the same old vulture tatics you use.You are comming across that if it is not armaps way then it is no good. No matter what. You seem to take the opposite view just for the fun of it and we all know that now. I don't care how many people speak up for you. You are wrong in the way you post. You go after peoples integrity and not the post. That is why you are lossing respect.

I use my imagination to create things. i am a creative person. At least IMHO I am. it took months of creative imagination to plan and program the first Deuem. Most likely 99% of other people would have given up but I went the entire way to get it. I could see it even before I started it so I knew what I was after. I doubt that in your lifetime you will ever see anything like it. It is that fringe.

After months, our Mr 1WW is starting to get it. You have a problem because of the output. I bet if it streamed a million lines of code it would make you happy. I'm sorry that was not my dream. A photo was. One our minds could explore.

Another problem here sometime is the posted pixels of my work. I have to take photo from 10,000 sq or more down to 600 pixels. A lot of detail is lost. The finite detail I can see on my screen. Like what I think is a blurred fishing line from the noses of both craft to the wires. But I didn't print that because it is way to subjective. Move your head an inch and you lose the view. But something is there. But I can't prove it 100%

Yes it is my opinion that you don't understand my work. That is based on the countless posts you have made de-railling most everything I post. You are never happy unless you come out on top. I don't want to be on top. I just want to have fun doing what I like to do. Like Sarge told you. We do this because we like to.

My opinion is always based on the material being presented, never on the person that presents it

Seems to me that you have not been able to do much. You know better than I do that every single camera code can be changed. There are even free software sites for this. Running the camera details can be as fake as a photo. This is not a fail safe method for clearing photos.

I have done hundreds of photos of the sky, at several times of day and night, and I base my opinions on the real photos, not on processed data.

If you really, really understood me, you would be asking me to do the forensic work. What are you going to get out of looking at a photo? Strained eyes?

True, I am basing my opinion on what the photographer said, I always take that into account, as I wasn't there myself

So what are you going to do/say when you find out thru Mufon that this is a 3 dollar bill. Are you going to retire back to ATS and stop chewing on us? You want to believe some guy you don't know yet at the same time ridicule a member for presenting IMHO work. Yea! Nice guy...

I think you should go back to Adobe class if you think that levels will bring back any sunset photo back to daytime. It never has for me. And yes I have taken classes with Adobe back in the states. Not a third party.

Many people have asked me over the years why I don't do more of this debunk work. This is what happens and like a good boy I never will post anything like this again. You have just lost Deuem on this function. Matter of fact I am giving serious thought to giving up all UFO work here. It is wortless work that takes hours with no results. I should go back to stones. Everyone likes stones. Gem stones process very well and make great prints when spun. lol

deuem.  See how it works..Some of the best posters on this site no longer feel like posting because of the consant ridicule by 1 member. We know, we post, we get hit. So why post, whala, troll wins.

[Elvis Hendrix]

All is good Elvis, has been coming to an end the past few months, but really isn't a big deal.

As do I Elvis, he has taught me much about a few things, mainly photography as of late, but not by negativity, he has always been the UFO/Image guy, but Deuem's process bring's a fresh 'NEW' idea into the image classification realm's.

That may not be an entirely true analogy, but, for what it is worth, he does have a lot of 'Taught' knowledge to share, and has done so in explanation's of some topic's I do not have a good grasp on. Just that there is very little he knows about Deuem, but knows much more about Photo processing than I, so is very informative guy for sure.

LOL, how did Phage get into this conversation. Ha ha ha ha!

Just know that we do respect ArMap, just have too realize the full reason of why we are here and for how many times this seems to happen with him. he is not as open minded as you may think, but he is knowledgeable none the less, and does deserve merit for that part of his intellect.

1WW

Nicely  now. This is a local shop, for local people.

[Elvis Hendrix]

There has to be measure here. Or we we are no better than the likes of glp.
So suck it up sisters.
We will not castigate or vilify.
That is the language of buffoons.
We need to talk within reason, or there is no reason.
So get your friging story straight.
And we will all learn .

Thankyouverymuch.

[1Worldwatcher]

Nicely  now. This is a local shop, for local people.

Tell me about it, I have been here since the beginning Elvis. We all have respect for one another, but there are moments when the civilians must disagree, true? And with all that Deuem has brought to our beloved Peggy for his insight and the process he so openly shares with all, and me personally knowing of what he speaks of as far as ArMap is concerned, it becomes relevant, it has been a continual on going saga of butting heads and close minded arguments.

Go here: Deuems Standards and Research Thread read the 83 pages of discussion and get the entirety of the current understanding of why this is all happening.

I like ArMap, and I like Deuem, heck, there isn't anyone I don't like here, it all comes down to respect of one another for sure, as you had said, "We are all a community here." and that goes both ways in topic's of conversation, and hopefully Deuem isn't going to bail on the UFO research, we were just making great head way into the whole Deuem Process, and what it is it actually is telling us as far as 'NEW' and 'Remarkable' finding's with in such fields of research. With Deuem, we may be able to not only classify UFO's as they are being captured by images/photo's, we may be able to tell what these craft are influencing as far as propulsion systems and what and how it effects the ambient atmosphere both with Photon interaction and FTL possibilities.

There is a lot too be said for anything being discussed rationally, but, usually if I find no merit with in such threads or topic's being discussed, I do not partake, for I know all I can do is follow what is being discussed before real meaning is unveiled too me for too have insightful input or topical contribution too be apart of the answer, not a part of the problem.

As I have said, all is good, just seen this coming from a few months back. And I would hate to have to discuss Deuem's Process off the forums here because of the intermittent slamming with information that is said to be true, but for or from old ways of understanding, which ArMap continually use's as his side of the explanation, which I may add is correct, if one is using the technologies we are aware of today, and not with in what the Deuem Process and the 'New' resolution's we are getting for the information with in the information of these UFO/Paranormal photograph's and Images. Also does video as well. IMHO

I at first was baffled by Deuem's intention's with his Process, and he has done some work ups for me personally. I even gave him known Hoaxed images on several occasion's too see just how 'Real' this whole 'New Technology' really did work, and he has caught every one of these known hoaxes with exquisite explanation and high in sight with what he thinks was done with in these images of question and the one's that had both of us stumped for their apparent importance of being credible UFO encounter's. Deuem Process is very real and very tangible, we just need too know why and how these divisional lines after processing show up the way they do with so many 'Wave Length's' of such information.

This is truly an amazing process, but being of the scientific minded for wanting to put some real mathematics and overwhelming resolve to it's understanding is where we are at, and with it being possibly the most complicated formatted process I have ever see, the devil is in the details with in these absolutes of the understanding. Hope you understand Elvis, Deuem's Processed images hold a great deal of uninterpreted information to get the statistics of the whole UFO/Paranormal Phenomena in range of proper deductive analysis, which is something that has never been achieved before.

Pegasus is already on the map as being serious minded research and discussion Forum, Deuem is one of those contributor's without a doubt, we need team player's too further the deciphering, not broken record rebuttals and rhetorical embellishing of thing's we already know are the facts, at least with in today's current technologies.

ArMap can be my wing man any time, I respect him that much, but he has too see what we are trying to convey as far as this process being 'NEW' and goes beyond current understanding of what we think we are seeing. Once we can get him in the 'Out of the Box' frame of thought, ArMap, in my personal opinion, will be of vital contribution for his intellectual prowess with in such fields as Photography and UFO/Paranormal research.

1WW