The Extraterrestrial Hypothesis: Pure misdirection?

[karl 12]

Karl, Thanks for reminding me of one of my favourite interviews.  I just love the way Creighton is pretending he has just been looking through his library in scholarly fashion.  In case any members haven't seen it Gordon pretty much goes over a lot of relevant material.

Pimander, got to love Gordo in that interview mate and thought he made some very astute points -  not so sure about his thoughts in later life about the subject though and in this 2000 article he states that 'UFO activity is evil and malignant' - didn't really agree with him about the true nature of UFO entities in this piece either (but he was a great chap).

A BRIEF ACCOUNT OF THE TRUE NATURE OF THE "UFO ENTITIES" by Gordon Creighton

Ever since its publication, the article has been treated throughout the world with total silence, and there is a general agreement among all Ufologists on both sides of the Atlantic never to give it a mention.

It looks like I'm in good company when I say that the sightings are too common for a simple, "it must be extraterrestrials," explanation.

The sheer number of different occupant descriptions (and shapes) had me thinking along the same lines for a while now mate - maybe the extra-dimensional factor coupled with the crypto-terrestrial aspect (and the occasional ET visitation) could cover it but as always who knows?

It's only speculation but when it comes to the ETH and folks dismissing UFO reports because of the 'huge distance' assumption then what if long lived and sufficiently advanced civilizations lived 'off planet' in self contained ships free from the dangers of super volcanoes, ice ages, meteor strikes etc..? I suppose that would go someways in negating the distance problem although obviously the sheer variety of reports is still a big factor.
Cheers!

[The Matrix Traveller]

Perhaps the knowledge of WHERE we are observing or experiencing from,  and WHAT we believe
to be this dimensional Universe, no matter what Species we (LIFE) experience through, is more the question
rather from what we believe or assume at present.

The question of so called "Distance", is only limited by out technical Ignorance and lack of knowledge regarding
WHAT & HOW our experience (Environment or this little Universe) is being produced and WHERE !



We both see and experience this Universe; So WHERE is this little Universe then ?   


IF it is located somewhere, WHERE is it Located ?

And WHAT is beyond the experience of it ?   



These Questions may need to be answered 1st, IF we are going to get to grips with the Alien or UFO Phenomena.


Ever thought we are approaching the Subject in the wrong way, or from the wrong angle ?   

[robomont]

My bad.wright patterson not wright patman thats a lake.from post above.

[Anthra]

There is to my knowledge nothing even resembling good evidence that "abductions" and similar contact experiences have anything to do with extraterrestrials.

And, you won't ever see good evidence until it happens to you.

Channelling is as old as the wind.  I do think it is a real contact with "intelligence" of some description.  That is very different to the intelligence being literally a "space brother" here to save us after a detour from the Pleiades.

We'll talk about the Pleiades in a minute...

Sorry to say it, but the above sketch is not credible evidence that "The Greys" are actual extraterrestrials from Zeta Reticuli.  I won't get deeply into a debate about whether that sketch is credible evidence based on the Fish interpretation.  Why?

The sketch, perhaps no, but the over all experience, perhaps. The sketch show a configuration of stars from a "view" that is not possible from Earth; the view point is over 40 ly from Earth. The Fish interpretation was somewhat inaccurate, I've been working on a 3D model of the stars and will have that done soon.

It is a view from a point in space (not here).  It could easily be obtained in a "dream" by a technique widely known on this site.  Remote viewing.

Even if you accept that the Hill's map is really a map drawn from some point in space, it can mean many things.  Knowledge can be obtained in many ways.  If you believe in Psi and certain noetic phenomena then you should know that already.  That is the danger with interpreting according to a pre-conceived notion.

Ever do Remote Viewing? How about Telepathy? I bet you have experienced a wee bit of empathy though, the others are not unlike that except you "see" things and "know" things...in the end its actually "know" things. A wee look into by day, so, yeah, I kind of believe in "Psi". Lol, "pre-conceived notion", that's almost funny; that is one of the greatest battles and barriers to telepathy. Once One can begin to get past that, it becomes almost easy...next step is to learn "trust".

Don't understand something.  It's aliens.  EVERY TIME!

When you start to discuss 30 or 40 races of alien and produce virtually no credible evidence that they exist, you make UFOlogists look like a bunch of idiots.  Well I'm not an idiot.  That may make me unpopular with certain folk.  That is absolutely fine with me.  It's a small price to pay.

Well, if ya check into my writing you will notice that I don't talk about 30 or 40 or 57 species, I only have 10.5 and, I have suitable home stars for each. And, I would submit that having a suitable star dramatically increases the probability that "said species" exists. You should also note that I'm not calling anything I got "proof" in the sense that you and most others would like, no, what I have is "proof" in a mathematical sense; in that I can demonstrate probabilities close enough to 1 to represent virtual proof.

Pardon?  There are millions - no billions - of stars of every class in the Galaxy.  There are thousands of myths about many stars.  There are in fact far more myths about Sirius, the Plaiades, Orions stars, Polaris and the planets.  Why?  Because those objects are the most remarkable things you can see in the sky apart from the Sun and Moon. 

Yes, there are billions of stars in the Galaxy; but not so many within travel distance. If we place some sort of "practical" limit on distance; say 50ly, then there are only a little few hundred or so. and when you talk about stars that typically support the kinds of life we are interested in, even fewer (actually 100+ or so). So of all the stars we only consider class G, F, A some "K" class, the brighter ones, and the dimmer "B" class stars. Then we need to filter that list by age; apparently only stars between the ages of 3 billion and 6 billion years old will have the kinds of life we want.

So the Pleiades; Class "B" stars between the age of 75 million and 150 million...No natural complex sentient space-faring life.
Vega; the same...too young.
Orion Stars: most are too far away; hundreds of light years...
And, yes, these objects are/were the most remarkable things in the sky; probably accounts for the misidentification of home worlds.

Except I could also be from Nottingham.  Or Scotland.  Both are more accurate.

Well, see there...data is already updated. And, I can apply a few "believed" facts and arrive an updated inference that more closely matched my "psychic" impressions.

I can also prove I actually exist.  I can give a blood sample,  a photograph of me and even shake your hand.  Find me 30 or 40 extraterrestrial races who can do that!

Again, I don't know about 30 or 40 species, only 10 or so. But, I can find you 1 such extraterrestrial that can do all that.

I think that ultimately, the ET hypothesis is a reasonable one but is an incomplete explanation for the variety of experienced phenomena.  I also think that certain UFO cases could well indicate ETs.  The answer to the UFO mystery is Not UFOs are piloted by ETs.  Most - including most of the "unexplained" cases - are not.

Talking about 30 or 40 species and detailing their physical characteristics and relations with humans and even their politics is fanciful BS.

In what ways is ETH incomplete?
Yes, of course the UFO Mystery is far more complex than what meets the eye. There are things "out there" that the like of us cannot even imagine. We have to keep an open and questioning mind.

Actually, obtaining intel on extraterrestrial cultures isn't all  that difficult if one has the requisite skills, even if still in training. But, even at that; it is sometimes difficult to understand an "alien" mind (that's like just about every other mind, so ever).




(youtube link fixed for ya Anthra)

[robomont]

What about that show fire in the sky.about an abduction in oregon.that was real.his coworkers were arrested for murder and then the guy showed up naked like three days later.thats the best abduction proof i know of.
Then theres the newer movie out"fourth kind" about a woman who had her husband and daughter abducted and never returned.there is live footage of that and the sheriff quit.he couldnt take the stress of people disappearing for no reason.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE.

[Sinny]

What about that show fire in the sky.about an abduction in oregon.that was real.his coworkers were arrested for murder and then the guy showed up naked like three days later.thats the best abduction proof i know of.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE.

Agreed, best abduction case I know of also. Great movie too.

[Pimander]

cryptoterrestrial


learnt a new word today P..tanks.   

Always happy to be of service. 

The following is fascinating.

Some[who?] have suggested that this is an extension of the ideas of Richard Shaver.

It's a long(ish) story.  Basically it revolves around a fascinating guy called Ray Palmer who edited the 1950s pulp fiction magazine Amazing Stories.  In response to a letter from a guy called Shaver, Palmer published a series of stories called "I Remember Lemuria" abourt a race of beings that lived under the Earth in tunnels and controlled humans by firing mysterious beams up at them.



The upshot is that Palmer got thousands of letters saying that the story was true and that they had encountered these beings.  Here Palmer can speak for himself in the Stan Deyo film.

Incidentally, this is the only Ray Palmer footage I can find.  If anyone knows of more I'd be delighted as I want to include him if I produce a film.



Was it a hoax?  If yes, it definitely touched a nerve.

Palmer is worth looking into but I'll leave that to interested parties.

I Remember Lemuria by Richard Shaver

[stealthyaroura]

However, the real importance of these texts is historic. The Shaver mythos had a huge tacit influence on 1950s and successive UFO belief systems. For instance, Shavers' 'Nor,' blonde demigods from outer space, suggest the 'Nordic' aliens of UFO lore. The tunnels of the dero became subterranean alien bases. Embedded in this short science fiction story were many of the themes which would later become accepted UFO canon.

From pimanders link.
Interesting that Ray Palmer the editor of "amazing stories" went on to publish "fate" magazine that broke the Arnold case.
Great find!

[Pimander]

Yeah, I love the thread "the day before Roswell" shows there was a hell of a lot of ufo's leading up to the "incident" at roswell and they carried on after.
A flap worldwide.

What we have found so far doesn't indicate worldwide in terms of saucers in 1947.  I have started a similar search in the UK papers and apart from reports about the American flap there was nothing in the UK.

The sightings in the US appear to be near to places where military testing happened.  That may mean an interest in our technology and/or it originated with our own technology and/or it is reverse engineered.

Something that interests me is that the saucer sightings appear to have increased in 1947 and not when nukes were first fired at Trinity in 1945.

[robomont]

I study physics hardcore and i read about underground bases.i dont think these craft can actually go through rock.my guess is the portals are in the ocean.like caves that follow springs into the interior of the continents.salinity test should show where these caves are as the freshwater will dilute the saltwater.i bet usgs has a map of this or maybe navy.

[Pimander]

And, you won't ever see good evidence until it happens to you.

Having an abuction experience is not proof the abductor is from Zeta Reticuli.

Similarly, John Mack reporting that people in an altered state of consciousness (hypnosis) have described being abducted is not evidence that ETs were involved.

Critical thinking is important if you want the truth.

I'm happy to disagree about what constitutes credible evidence.  There is no point endlessly debating that.  Basically I require different types of evidence to what you do.  I'll allow the readers to decide which one is likely to make UFOlogy more credible or get the answers to the riddle.

Ever do Remote Viewing? How about Telepathy?

That is my business.  I just hope you aren't mistaking me for someone who doesn't know something about it.


The upshot is that telepathic, channelled or similar communications are not evidence of where the communication originates or evidence of where the communicator originates from.  Pretend not to understand that obvious fact if you like.  Taking note of the intelligence level of the majority of our members, I expect that it is obvious to most that I am correct on this point - even if they disagree with me on others.

Channelled info is not evidence that the alien experience is ET.  It is simply evidence that information can be received or produced using that method.

Well, if ya check into my writing you will notice that I don't talk about 30 or 40 or 57 species, I only have 10.5 and, I have suitable home stars for each.

I wasn't accusing you of a particular number but generally criticising people who write such nonsense.   Similarly, writing about 10.5 ET races, politics, traits and their homes without credible evidence makes real UFOlogists look like idiots.  I stand by that.

[stealthyaroura]

Gotta say I do like the crypto hypothesis and there are an awful lot of sightings of craft entering water, volcano's and all the folk law of inner earth beings.
I'm more of a book person myself I collect UFO books, but the insights bought forward in these Peggy threads are awesome.

Yeah seems "they" love nuclear installations as well as our missile tech.
Has the famous concord footage been debunked ( apart from the blob of condensation explo)?
I think a lot of the craft are probes, we send the same out so it follows common sense no?
I love this topic! I know I flit from theory to theory sorry for the distraction in your thread pim.

[sky otter]

well this is a bit off center
but the lumarian thing was a big deal around here for some reason back in the 70's.

and i do believe that you can get information just thur the air ( how's that for vague..lol...no labels)

i was fascinated with anything lumarian back then and searched the book stores for anything i could find on the subject.. there were soo many wonderful book stores before the web
and i had this experience..(one of many now that i think about it)

i apologize for this being a loose description but i had forgotten it till reading this thread..

i was holding a book and reading parts of it and around one of the shelves came this short dark haired middle aged (to me at the time it was middle aged but  who knows now) and she looked right at me.. i have always looked folks right in the eye
and the thought is in my head.. lumaria is still there and a big smile
that's it..that's all of it..

i know it's just a small thing but i have had so many small things happen thru my searching that when it happens you/ i somehow know if it is true or not

i beleived that..

so just my couple of cents into the pot..

[rose]

I have a centime for the weird pot, too, Sky.

Two nights ago, I went to support a friend who was delivering a group regression hypnosis session. I did not think I was hypnotized, so to entertain myself while the regression was going on ,I decided I would play at being a fish, maybe a dolphin, but then before the thought was finished, the fish transformed into a merman. I remember looking at my hands and seeing webbed fingers.

I can only think that this must be a concept that is percolating in the collective consciousness right now, as Robo posted this yesterday.

As far as where they come from.some folks claim they have webbing between fingers and toes.plus the color folks describe seems alot like dolphins skin and eyes.could greys be a hybrid of human and dolphin.

rose

[sky otter]

hahhaha Rose..or else you are holding space in another place as a merman...