FBI Bites On Bitcoins

[Amaterasu]

I don't thinks so...

IF I stayed on that assembly line I would be too slow compared to the Bots and would hold up that line  

Yeah, but YOU would never decide that was the BEST way to spend Your time, either.  VERY few would, I imagine.

But that has been my point. Its not as simple as 'releasing' free energy. SOMEONE has to build the devices and the infrastructure that can make USE of this free energy. It would be nice BUT you cannot just drop a piece of Dark Matter into your gas tank and run your car

Yeah, so.  Spend taxes doing it.  Coordinate on a central site.  Git 'er done.

It will cost BILLIONS to create the free energy devices and convert the existing systems so everything can use them.  That initial cost and outlay of money is what is the limiting factor... because SOMEONE with the resources and the inclination will have to pony up and put his pocket book to work.

Hahaha.  It won't MATTER if We spend quadrillions, googlezillions, whatever.  Financial debt goes away in the end.

Solar power is a good example. Solar power is free... even devices to collect it are cheap... but that inverter and the batteries to store it and the installer to install it still are expensive. Once that is covered (the initial installation charge) from then on you have free energy...

The "government" should provide energy free.  We have a goal here and getting energy freely to all of Us is part of the process.

A hydro electric dam uses free energy... Just like the old water wheel grain mills did, gravity alone feeds the turbines producing tons of free electricity. The same river can have 30 or more power plants creating free energy using the same water.  But its the infrastructure that is the block.

No.  It's the fear of spending.  It's money.  If Our goal is to eliminate the need for money, spend money to get there.  It's a free ride in the end.  Heck, if We're concerned, take money away from military.  They have vastly more than They need.

And to remove the initial cost infrastructure... a LOT of GOLD has to start the ball rolling... other wise it is just an idea on paper

Yeah, one form of money or another, whatever works.  Citizens' Tax Spending Initiatives.

No one is mocking... just pointing out reality checks Awareness is good, but at some point to get from AWARENESS to IMPLIMINTATION Someone has to fork over LOTS OF MONEY to grease those wheels

When You use words like "magically" and "miraculously" in reference to what You think I'm saying here, yeah, z.  That's kinda mocking.  I covered the rest of this above.  [smile]

[zorgon]

I again will reiterate, Wall-E is Disney propaganda.  We have couch potatoes now because They can't AFFORD to do what They WANT to do.  I challenge You to ask everyOne You encounter for a month what They would do if They could retire right now with an unlimited bank account.

I know many people that are quite well off, never had a tough life. And they choose to sit around and do nothing. I am certain there are studies around that would verify this. I will see if I can find some

But you will not find many couch potatoes in countries where people still have to work. Only in countries where leisure time is high will you find them. Hollywood is full of rich and once famous people that are full time couch potatoes and generally useless eaters

I think this is the main sticking point in your acessment of the human race. Most, if given everything free would soon find no value in doing anything and just take the opium.

Even Ferrets, having a free home, free food and water... prefer to sleep in hammocks all day. They don't have to forage for food, fight off enemies (though they do chase the cat and dogs for sport) or build a burrow. Ferrets are professional couch potatoes...



And they are teaching the cats

I would love to discover how many would say, "Meh.  Sit around and watch TV all day."  How many would plan to do something that helps Those around Them or the planet as a whole.  See how many would go to school, become artists, produce plays, and on and on.  Would love to see Your data when You're done.

Well we could ask   though most would probably lie

[deuem]

<blockquote> Z:
It will cost BILLIONS to create the free energy devices and convert the existing systems so everything can use them.  That initial cost and outlay of money is what is the limiting factor... because SOMEONE with the resources and the inclination will have to pony up and put his pocket book to work.</blockquote>   
Amy:
Hahaha.  It won't MATTER if We spend quadrillions, googlezillions, whatever.  Financial debt goes away in the end.

Z; Every time they put up a new boil water nuke plant they spend billions, So I see no difference in the money spent, they just want the waste for bigger bommmmbs
A; If we spend quadrillion on a project then give it away how does debt go away in the end. I would think the banks would want to get paid back for the investment.

The topic is both right and wrong, How to get from spending to free is a task that needs a fantastic plan. It effects the entire planet. One that everyone could live with and prosper in some manner. The oil people will just make more expensive plastic, the car companies will make electric cars at twice the current price and transportation people will rise the cost to make up for the profit they add to fuel. Greed will step in and balance it out again. Would we need Martial Law world wide to control the change over. Hold prices and reloading prices to make up for lost proffits? It is currently a pay or die world.
A; have you ever developed a full blown plan to achieve this paradise your talking about? i would like to read it if you have.   Deuem

[deuem]

I won't lie, sign me up for that hammock! Deuem would be a number 1 Couch potato. But then there would be no one to make my new couch! Even a floor potato would be better than working and I would be blasting the AC 24/7 with the windows open. My Electric meter would be spinning so fast it would fall of the wall. I would just take the fridge door right off the hinges. Heck no need for a door. I just use the door to save electricity. Maybe I would add an AC unit to the Kitchen so we could cook in our winter clothes.

What I am saying is that yes, if everything we free it would change my life for the better but mostly for the worst! All I really care about is that we stop polluting our planet to death. I don't care what the electric bill is. It is only a small portion of the entire picture. the effects of using it far out weigh the costs of buying it.

Deuem

[zorgon]

Just ask yourself this...

How many people today spend ALL their free time on the internet when they could be out living life, creating something, taking a class, going scuba diving... actually meeting people face to face

But no... they will prefer to sit in their caves and live the reality of the internet... and the rich kids are the worst offenders

There you have your answer

[zorgon]

Z; Every time they put up a new boil water nuke plant they spend billions, So I see no difference in the money spent, they just want the waste for bigger bommmmbs

This would indicate one thing...

IF the current PTB had more efficient energy producing devices, would they not use them and corner the market?  While I know that the Military has certain advances, I suspect that despite what conspiracy nuts say or believe... there really is no viable solution yet

Of course no one will consider that as being possible, because they are convinced that THEY are hiding the tech.

But one thing I know to be true about the Military is that when they find something new... they will not hesitate to use it, even before tests are complete

[Fruitbat]

Actually you guys have hit on a discovery that I am actively making right now. what happens when you get boundless free time.

I have discovered that when I control my day, sometimes very little gets done.

However, I am not yet sure if that is pure LMF (lack of moral fibre) or if it's my age and physiology.

I know one thing, I was never trained to be self supporting and self motivating, and it's a big adjustment to make.

I think if Amy's abundance paradigm came real, we'd have an AWFUL time for a while, with people making an awful mess, until their heads caught up. Rather like now, but with criminal minds freed of an interest in assets turning their attentions to your souls.

Like I said, rather like now...

Fb.

[Pimander]

I have discovered that when I control my day, sometimes very little gets done.

I recently became my own boss and, funnily enough, I'm a lot less productive than I used to be.  On the other hand I'm enjoying it at the moment.  If I need more money I will have to work harder.

No doubt I will want or need more money as the birth of my first child approaches so that may be all it takes to remedy the situation.  It shows that I'm not just motivated by money though.  Perhaps I'm one of those types who genuinely feels that their time is more valuable than any amount of money?

[Pimander]

IF the current PTB had more efficient energy producing devices, would they not use them and corner the market?  While I know that the Military has certain advances, I suspect that despite what conspiracy nuts say or believe... there really is no viable solution .

I don't necessarily agree with your logic, Zorgon (and not just because I'm a conspiracy nut - maybe I'm something else really ).  If TPTB agree with you that too much free time and goods would be a disaster for humanity/civilisation then surely they would conceal or delay rolling out a viable energy solution. 

As I have hinted before, another problem with your argument is that if the energy solution makes it easy to have limitless energy/power then it is VERY VERY dangerous.  If said technology gets into the wrong hands, that limitless energy/power is the power to destroy worlds.  Think about it.  How can that be released into the public domain safely?  I'll answer that - it can't.

If anyone can think of a way to release that type of power then let me know and I'll do everything in my power to pass the information to the relevant people.


ETA:  That does not mean that novel propulsion and energy technologies won't be useful for making civilisation more abundant.  In fact it is a monumentally important task.  The above just means that the ultimate limitless free energy solution is too dangerous and even in the hands of the military could be a terrible thing.

Hate me if you like guys, but if  you think about it there is some sense in what I am saying.

[robomont]

i think instead of looking for more sources of energy we should focus on effficientcy.minor improvements create major savings.that is the current path of success.where advancements seem to come everyday.
once i got into the air conditioning business it started to really sink in.
the numbers started making since.a little cheap insulation goes a long way.thats money in ones pocket and power that someone else can use if needed.we see it more often now with cars.fuel injection saves alot of money.electric cars are very efficient as motor only turns when needed instead of like car engines that run.even at stop lights.releasing lots of heat into the atmosphere.

[Somamech]

But it is more... the day before I was thinking now that I have a car I would like to go to War and maybe go as a Merchant this time again...

Apart from the obvious reference's to the gold mining day's and who? had sustainable income back then... I see the same occuring now in regards to musicians who made the switch to creating tool's to make music with in software rather than making music.   

[Amaterasu]

I know many people that are quite well off, never had a tough life. And they choose to sit around and do nothing. I am certain there are studies around that would verify this. I will see if I can find some

But you will not find many couch potatoes in countries where people still have to work. Only in countries where leisure time is high will you find them. Hollywood is full of rich and once famous people that are full time couch potatoes and generally useless eaters

Really?  They sit at home all the time and watch TV?  Really?  Struggling to buy that there are many that do that.  They may have and attend fetes, go sailing, paint or maybe garden.  They may spend some time at home watching TV, but not day in and day out.  The day in and day out Ones are the Ones who cannot afford to do what They want.

I think this is the main sticking point in your acessment of the human race. Most, if given everything free would soon find no value in doing anything and just take the opium.

And *I* contend that if We teach Our children to find and develop Their gift(s), We will have VASTLY more useful production in society, driven by CARING and not profit motive.

Even Ferrets, having a free home, free food and water... prefer to sleep in hammocks all day. They don't have to forage for food, fight off enemies (though they do chase the cat and dogs for sport) or build a burrow. Ferrets are professional couch potatoes...



And they are teaching the cats

See.  They ARE contributing - as they CHOOSE to.  Teaching the cats.

I told You in the other thread that the quote was unfinished.

"I'll do it later - I'm watching My stories...to take My mind off going spelunking which is what I really want to do but I don't have the money or equipment, and doing laundry is NOT what I want to do."

Well we could ask   though most would probably lie

I guess, though I don't know why They would.

[Amaterasu]

A; If we spend quadrillion on a project then give it away how does debt go away in the end. I would think the banks would want to get paid back for the investment.

When money is no longer needed - because a penny buys whatever You want and then some and the effort of collecting it is more that it is truly worth...  All financial fictions are removed and banks will be no more.

The topic is both right and wrong, How to get from spending to free is a task that needs a fantastic plan. It effects the entire planet. One that everyone could live with and prosper in some manner. The oil people will just make more expensive plastic, the car companies will make electric cars at twice the current price and transportation people will rise the cost to make up for the profit they add to fuel. Greed will step in and balance it out again. Would we need Martial Law world wide to control the change over. Hold prices and reloading prices to make up for lost proffits? It is currently a pay or die world.
A; have you ever developed a full blown plan to achieve this paradise your talking about? i would like to read it if you have.   Deuem

It's not a "paradise."  Just a hell of a lot better than what We're doing now.

Yes:

1.  Spread awareness to the tipping point that free energy=no need for money

2.  Allow either toadies who see that They will live as richly - or more so - to release free energy tech, or private inventors to have breakthroughs as more and more work on it.

3.  Spend taxes to replace or retrofit with free energy, using BEST design, not planned obsolescence, in business, industry, agriculture, transportation and homes.

4.  Spend taxes to replace workers who don't WANT to do the job They have with either Those who would LOVE it or robots.

5.  Put together a central site for reporting and solving problems as described here:  http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2103.0

6.  Spend taxes supporting Those who need it from losing jobs in the transition

7.  Promote the Betterment Ethic (and who of caring heart would eschew the Betterment Ethic?)

8.  Teach Our children to find Their gifts and develop Them.

[zorgon]

"I'll do it later - I'm watching My stories...to take My mind off going spelunking which is what I really want to do but I don't have the money or equipment, and doing laundry is NOT what I want to do."

I have been in many caves and mine shafts...  just a hard hat, hiking boots and a lantern. Doesn't cost much for those and some rope

I guess, though I don't know why They would.

Because people, by nature, will not tell you the truth. The internet is filled with people that are living proof of this... they can be whatever they want on the internet, never needing to go outside to face reality.

If we had a Holodeck like they do on Star Trek... people would be addicted to their fantasies and NEVER come out

This in not my opinion... it is easily documented today in the world we live in

[zorgon]

I have discovered that when I control my day, sometimes very little gets done.
However, I am not yet sure if that is pure LMF (lack of moral fibre) or if it's my age and physiology.

A bit of both...

When you work for yourself you are not on a punch clock... so you can work or not work as you choose.  Yes you will become less productive... until you say to yourself "I need to get off this dang computer and pay the bills"

Advantage is you can catch up because you have no set hours. Disadvantage is if you are a procrastinator you will soon be broke

One chap I knew had a solution... He had his office in the garage... fixed up like a hull office. In the US a garage is attached to the house with a door into the house.  But what he did to get his mind set was leave the house via the front door... like he was going off to work... then go around to the side door of the garage and go to work.

That was what he needed to motivate himself that he is now at work

Many times lately when I have been sorting and photographing stuff for sale, I would sit in the living room to take the pain off the legs.  I would then turn on the TV to break the monotony.  But when I do that... I find that many times I will be distracted by the program and get less done.

I know one thing, I was never trained to be self supporting and self motivating, and it's a big adjustment to make.

This is why 5% of the people in the world own 95% of everything... they are self motivated

I think if Amy's abundance paradigm came real, we'd have an AWFUL time for a while, with people making an awful mess, until their heads caught up. Rather like now, but with criminal minds freed of an interest in assets turning their attentions to your souls.

Star Trek attempts to handle this scenario  A society with no money, free do do anything you want...  But all we see is a handful of explorers... Even on missions the Captain, Doctor, Science Officer and Engineer and other top officers are the only ones on the mission   What are the other billions of people doing?



Look at our kids today... too much leisure time... how long before boredom sets in?

Back 20 years ago people had less leisure time and even less income, yet they were out doing stuff. Even if it was just hiking in the forest or camping out at a lake.  Today they are all sitting in front of the Robots pretending to be alive