Jim Oberg's "99 FAQs About Space UFO Videos"

[deuem]

Thanks, I guess NASA Hi-Def is not what we call Hi-Def. These are nothing more than "thumbnail vids". The little copies they post all over their site.

Jim 352 x 240 is not Hi-Def in anyones book. Is that all they gave you, the knocked down versions of the real thing. If you were to put this up on the Huston viewing board you could not even see it.

Is there a single human being on Earth with a real name and verifiable expertise who can vouch for, or corroborate, the real videos? 

And I think, Unless you are qualified in forensics annalist video work you should not be picking so much on Sanders. Sander and I test each other all the time to try and keep it real. We attack the problem from two different views and if we come up with the same conclusions we have a bingo. Let him see what he comes up with. He is fair and objective and understands NASA very well. Maybe better than yourself. We will see.

Why would Ice Crystals pulse?

Why did they do a dump right before the tether launch and pee all over the cargo bay. They pissed all over the lenses and everything else back there. At least they could put the shuttle in reverse and the spay would then follow the nose. Once out use a jet or 2 and get some distance. If I was in charge, they better have a very good reason for doing this otherwise they would be looking for a new job and I would have cancelled the tether and brought it home to be cleaned and reloaded. Heads would roll for sure. I'm sorry to say this but it sounds like one of the largest screwups on this mission. It reads like a Beavis and Butt head adventure.

[JimO]

Can you do better with these questions?

What exactly is "military grade super resolution software" and how do you happen to possess it?

What examples can you show us where such a process has yielded verfiable results in any other image application?

What do you expect the process to produce relevant to the origin of the sts-75 video?

Is there a single human being on Earth with a real name and verifiable expertise who can vouch for, or corroborate, the processing results?

[JimO]

Thanks, I guess NASA Hi-Def is not what we call Hi-Def. These are nothing more than "thumbnail vids". The little copies they post all over their site.

Maybe I should ask for higher-res versions by mailed DVD. What description should I be asking for?

It might also help if we settled on a subset of these videos with special potential significance, and aim directly at them. Let's produce a list of segments of greatest interest.

Why would Ice Crystals pulse?

Ice flakes flash as they rotate, depending on axis of rotation and rate. This was routinely observed.

Why did they do a dump right before the tether launch and pee all over the cargo bay. They pissed all over the lenses and everything else back there.

Why are you so mistaken about the time between deploy/break and the time of the swarm sighting? How long have I tried to tell you it really was? If you realize that, you'll realize your question is hopelessly confused.

Time from break until swarm observation -- how many hours? Please pay attention to these basics.

At least they could put the shuttle in reverse and the spay would then follow the nose. Once out use a jet or 2 and get some distance. If I was in charge, they better have a very good reason for doing this otherwise they would be looking for a new job and I would have cancelled the tether and brought it home to be cleaned and reloaded. Heads would roll for sure. I'm sorry to say this but it sounds like one of the largest screwups on this mission. It reads like a Beavis and Butt head adventure.

That's because you seem to take defiant pride in your bad guesses about how spaceships OUGHT to [in your imagination] maneuver in the real world. You really need to pay attention to the operating principles that I tried to explain in '99 FAQs'. Otherwise your arrogant pontificating just makes you look silly to anyone actually familiar with space flight. It's not that they're smarter than you, just better informed. Take this opportunity, please.

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

Just an observation here: you guys DO know this guy is dilbrately wasting your time? I figured you do cause we have a bunch of really smart guys here.

Oh I get it now, lol.. Have fun 

[JimO]

Sarge, do you see yourself as part of the solution, part of the problem, or irrelevant? What can each of us do to improve understanding of the mysteries?

Have you looked over my '99 FAQs'??

[zorgon]

Maybe I should ask for higher-res versions by mailed DVD. What description should I be asking for?

It might also help if we settled on a subset of these videos with special potential significance, and aim directly at them. Let's produce a list of segments of greatest interest.

After all these years of you pushing you 'ice crystal' theory and  pretending that you have,  or have access to a, better video, you would think you would give it up.

IF you had such a video you would have produced it a long time ago to prove your point. So it is fairly obvious that you DON'T have such proof and rely on skeptic view points to puff your chest.

No one is buying it... but do knock yourself out

Ice flakes flash as they rotate, depending on axis of rotation and rate. This was routinely observed.

We are not talking about flashing... we are talking about throbbing..  like this HUGE 'ice crystal' on NASA's own mission control screen  Odlly enough... NASA is watching thi 'tiny ice crystal' that seemd to fill their entire screen... and IT is throbbing ( or pulsing) like we are talking about

There is NO WAY that they are watching an 'ice crystal' here. This one opens and closes a center hole, right on mission control screen.  Still want to claim its just a tiny speck of ice? Really? Must be an awesome camera









Here it is in animation... flashing ice particle indeed




Nor is this a bokeh  your other favorite



Why are you so mistaken about the time between deploy/break and the time of the swarm sighting? How long have I tried to tell you it really was? If you realize that, you'll realize your question is hopelessly confused.

Time from break until swarm observation -- how many hours? Please pay attention to these basics.

Otherwise your arrogant pontificating just makes you look silly to anyone actually familiar with space flight. It's not that they're smarter than you, just better informed. Take this opportunity, please.

Well the flight paths of the swarm do not conform to currently taught laws of space movement. How come skeptics always turn away from that?

[deuem]

Maybe I should ask for higher-res versions by mailed DVD. What description should I be asking for?

For this question we have to go back in time and see what was available back then. A lot has been changed in what they called Hi-def and what we call it now. We need that history lesson. Best would be A51 or ArMaP to look into that and get back here. But I do know it was higher than the thumbnails we got. So yes another try is well worth the effort to get the best of that day.

It might also help if we settled on a subset of these videos with special potential significance, and aim directly at them. Let's produce a list of segments of greatest interest.

This will be best left to debate but from what this thread is about. Any space shots prior and after the tether. Including launch which I did not see nor did I see the break. Did I miss that?

Ice flakes flash as they rotate, depending on axis of rotation and rate. This was routinely observed.

Yes, I have proven at least to myself that there are some Ice Crystals floating around and maybe even one/some to the lens. There are also at least 3 to 4 different objects in the frames that I see. One at a time to be worked on. Lets say at this moment I have not made up my mind pending better quality videos.

Why are you so mistaken about the time between deploy/break and the time of the swarm sighting? How long have I tried to tell you it really was? If you realize that, you'll realize your question is hopelessly confused.

I am not confused and you are placing words in my mouth.The swarm sighting was days later when they came up on it from behind at the closest point 46nm. Is there something I wrote that is confusing?

Time from break until swarm observation -- how many hours? Please pay attention to these basics.

Yes dear, Days not moments. But waiting to see the break video. The one photo I worked on showed it was producing power well before the break. I emailed to the Doctor that designed it and waiting for him to answer.

That's because you seem to take defiant pride in your bad guesses about how spaceships OUGHT to [in your imagination] maneuver in the real world. You really need to pay attention to the operating principles that I tried to explain in '99 FAQs'. Otherwise your arrogant pontificating just makes you look silly to anyone actually familiar with space flight. It's not that they're smarter than you, just better informed. Take this opportunity, please.

Well since you are not the Design engineer nor the flight director I think you talking for them is a waste of time. I need to speak to the person who made that decision to wet the bed. Can you present that information and I will ask them directly why they did it. Why they did a water dump all over a brand new clean room packed 100 million dollar toy. Sorry to say Jim but I think this is very irresponsible thing to do, no matter what you tell me. I want to hear that one from the horses mouth. Who do I need to ask?

I could write 99 FAQ also, it does not mean they are 100% right. There are always exceptions.

As far as my arrogant pontification, thanks for the compliment. Instead of telling me why, what I said could not be done, you decide to insult me with a compliment. And yea, they spun that ship around all the time. Why not spin it to butt first and dump out the nose and leave a trail behind you instead of peeing all over the deck. Better yet, why not just wait till after the release. How do we know that the tether was not covered in ice, the small microscopic particles are almost impossible to see on white. I would agree that they are much better informed, they are in the trenches after all. But that does not mean they made the right choice. People of all levels do make mistakes. At this time I think this was a mistake. I need some type of good science to prove to me that wetting down the deck was the best thing to do.

Silly deuem

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

JimO, do you see yourself as part of the solution, part of the problem, or irrelevant? What can each of us do to improve understanding of the mysteries?

Mysteries? Space Plasma Critters?

Don't see any mystery at all.

[Elvis Hendrix]

Ice Crystals !!

[JimO]

After all these years of you pushing you 'ice crystal' theory and  pretending that you have,  or have access to a, better video, you would think you would give it up.

IF you had such a video you would have produced it a long time ago to prove your point. So it is fairly obvious that you DON'T have such proof and rely on skeptic view points to puff your chest.

The video Armap posted on youtube is the version I talked about, the time tags along the top were both unreadable. I had a VHS tape of it, viewed and studied it, but wasn't able to convert and upload a digital version. When Armap invited me to discuss the case here, I contacted JSC-PAO and they posted the gigabit files on the NASA server with a guest password, and I 'filezilla'ed' them down, as did Armap and another researcher. I later also passed video 1 to easynow. 

I'd be happy to continue studying the full video along with the Flight Plan and updates I also obtained and shared. In them we see the four observation periods, at four successive sunrises, as the shuttle passed below the TSS-1R and the dangling tether. The 2nd observation was closest, and is the most famous.

The video and documents contribute to identifying sources of particle generation by the shuttle that might be responsible for the 'swarm'. Note in particular the references to the Flash Evaporator System, or FES, which was being used on this flight for water dumps. That's very significant since the FES nozzles are back near the tail, right next to payload bay cameras B & C.

So I see a lot of potential for a clearer understanding of context factors for this case. You, on the other hand, seem to fear the new access to a deeper understanding of the event.

No one is buying it... but do knock yourself out

As you can tell from my classic sts-48 case study, I do use the real data to establish reasonable 'ordinary' causes of such videos. For those who are selling the ufo/plasma versions, more data is anathema. And for good reason.

We are not talking about flashing... we are talking about throbbing..  like this HUGE 'ice crystal' on NASA's own mission control screen  Odlly enough... NASA is watching thi 'tiny ice crystal' that seemd to fill their entire screen... and IT is throbbing ( or pulsing) like we are talking about

There is NO WAY that they are watching an 'ice crystal' here. This one opens and closes a center hole, right on mission control screen.  Still want to claim its just a tiny speck of ice? Really? Must be an awesome camera

I know you are bored by this question, but what's the date/time of that video so we can examine the operational context -- like is it day or night?

Well the flight paths of the swarm do not conform to currently taught laws of space movement. How come skeptics always turn away from that?

Here's a clue -- what YOU think the 'laws' dictate about movement has little relationship to the motions routinely observed by flight crews and mission controllers. You are basing your argument upon a carefully-preserved set of misconceptions about how stuff OUGHT to behave. Is there anybody with direct experience, who knows what they're talking about, who agrees with you -- or do YOU know better than all of THEM?

[JimO]

....This will be best left to debate but from what this thread is about. Any space shots prior and after the tether. Including launch which I did not see nor did I see the break. Did I miss that?

These videos, on Flight Day 8, cover about six hours. Since I keep trying to tell you the break was four DAYS earlier, why are you puzzled to not see it on these tapes?

...

Well since you are not the Design engineer nor the flight director I think you talking for them is a waste of time.

Did you read what the Flight Director wrote about the video? Would you believe him?

I need to speak to the person who made that decision to wet the bed. Can you present that information and I will ask them directly why they did it. Why they did a water dump all over a brand new clean room packed 100 million dollar toy. Sorry to say Jim but I think this is very irresponsible thing to do, no matter what you tell me. I want to hear that one from the horses mouth. Who do I need to ask?

Shuttles dump water dozens of times during a typical mission, and instrument operations are always coordinated to avoid any chance of contamination. The stuff never even shows up on the shuttle windows, you seem to have a highly distorted image of what is involved and how it transpires. Please familiarize yourself better. You still don't seem to appreciate how MUCH we're not in Kansas any more.

This has been very helpful since it identifies the basis of your logical conclusions as being non-facts that need correction. Progress, if painful.

I could write 99 FAQ also, it does not mean they are 100% right. There are always exceptions.

Mine are based on experience and study, not on imaginary miracles. If you have ANY factual challenges to mine, please provide them. You do notice that NOBODY has made a single such objection up to now. Zilch. Be the first.

As far as my arrogant pontification, thanks for the compliment. Instead of telling me why, what I said could not be done, you decide to insult me with a compliment. And yea, they spun that ship around all the time. Why not spin it to butt first and dump out the nose and leave a trail behind you instead of peeing all over the deck.

Nobody has peed all over the deck, or themselves, except maybe you. But that can be cleaned up.

Better yet, why not just wait till after the release. How do we know that the tether was not covered in ice, the small microscopic particles are almost impossible to see on white. I would agree that they are much better informed, they are in the trenches after all. But that does not mean they made the right choice. People of all levels do make mistakes. At this time I think this was a mistake. I need some type of good science to prove to me that wetting down the deck was the best thing to do.

The deck was never all wet. Just your imaginary scenario.

[deuem]

From day 4.

Another investigation of Columbia's surroundings made use of the orbiter's Flash Evaporator System (FES). To accomplish this experiment, the crew participated in activating and deactivating the orbiter's water release systems and manually operating the Shuttle's attitude control system jets. This provided a controlled means of studying the distribution of neutral and charged particles in the vicinity of the payload bay during Shuttle water dumps.

As far as I can tell the water dump is done at mid deck up front and the FES unit handles cooling, maybe in the rear. Still looking for its details! As soon as the cargo bays open they usually shut it off. From what I read they turned it on plus the pee/water dump and did their best to wet the bay. How else can anyone read that? They did it on purpose! No? I can find no link to the FES being used to discharge the waste water. It is for cooling. So maybe they turned on both. It does look as if they were doing their best to get a lot of water near or in the bay so they could run tests. While all the time a 100 million dollar toy is waiting to launch in a few hours. Unless someone can link this to a must have for the tether, it seems silly to do at that time.

The deck was never all wet. Just your imaginary scenario.

Not so imaginary if you read what NASA wrote. There is water everywhere, even on the lenses in you videos. I say they wet the deck, OK NASA likes big words, "This provided a controlled means of studying the distribution of neutral and charged particles in the vicinity of the payload bay during Shuttle water dumps."

Just your imaginary scenario? Guess not unless they can tell the water exactly where to go and not to go.

Did I not write about 5 times now that I know it was launched late day 4 or into 5 and the swarm was 3 to 4 days later. I would have exact times but the videos are garbled.

Did you read what the Flight Director wrote about the video? Would you believe him?

No I did not read it yet, just finished the daily logs. You have given me a lot to read in a limited amount of free time in the past few days. I have it and will read it and Yes I would believe him. Unless there is a problem and then I will let you know and we can ask him.

This has been very helpful since it identifies the basis of your logical conclusions as being non-facts that need correction. Progress, if painful.

Nice left hook, felt that one hit dear ole Deuem, You wrote "Shuttles dump water dozens of times during a typical mission" So far on the mission report I can only find 3. Maybe there were another 21 or 33 dumps that are unaccounted for. You do know we can run the Math on that one? Are you sure you want to say dozens in the STS-75 mission?

Nobody has peed all over the deck, or themselves, except maybe you. But that can be cleaned up.

A Bob Hope or Robin Williams your not but nice try on the Joke.And how many years have you been doing this mission over and over. I need time to come up to speed. On that I will agree.

[deuem]

Ok, Just found it, from NASA.

The supply and waste water systems provide water for the flash evaporator, crew consumption and hygiene.

[deuem]

Like to add another NASA tidbit that goes along with the above.

The flash evaporators are located in the aft fuselage of the orbiter. There are two evaporators in one envelope. One is the high-load evaporator; the other is the topping evaporator. There are two major differences between the evaporators. The high-load evaporator has a higher cooling capacity than the topping evaporator, and its overboard vent is only on the left side. The topping evaporator vents steam equally to the left and right sides of the orbiter, which is non-propulsive. The evaporators are cylindrical and have a finned inner core. The hot Freon-21 from the coolant loops flows around the finned core, and water is sprayed onto the core by water nozzles from either evaporator. The water vaporizes, cooling the Freon-21 coolant loops. In the low-pressure atmosphere above 100,000 feet, water vaporizes quickly. Changing water liquid to vapor removes approximately 1,000 Btu per hour per 1 pound of water. The water for the evaporators is obtained from the potable water storage tanks through water supply systems A and B.

So it seems there is at least 3 to 4 holes in this craft ( not sure yet if the left side is 2 holes or they share one hole) that are cabable of ridding water. The Evaporators are not usually run in space but they ran them for this wet test.

So what is all of this telling me so far. Yes they sprayed a lot of water in space on the launch window eve. If the ice crystals hug the ship as you say they do then I can't understand yet why there are no ICE/Critters in the launch/break video. This was just hours before the tether launch. Yes/No? So no critters or Ice to talk about during the launch. Hum!

I will have to see if they did some more dumping when they found the tether DAYS later. Yes Jim I wrote it again, DAYS later. Do I have the time line almost right or do I get another insult. I seem to have a nice collection from you.

[JimO]

For those who missed them the first time:

STS-75 Flight Director Chuck Shaw note
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=6642.msg93343#msg93343

STS-75 water dumps
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=6642.msg93697#msg93697