Malaysian passenger plane crashes in Ukraine near Russian border: Ifax

[Amaterasu]

[spacemaverick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmQ_4pf9hV8&feature=player_detailpage

What is the real reason MH 17 was shot down?  Once again we have a mixture of so called experts and politicians confusing the issue.  We don't know what really happened to MH 370 but we do know what happened to MH 17 but don't really know who did this dastardly deed.

[spacemaverick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K07DhLzWM2I&feature=player_detailpage

Published on Jul 24, 2014


In today's video, Christopher Greene of AMTV reports that Flight MH17 was instructed to divert route before missile strike.

#MH17 Instructed by Air Traffic Controllers to Divert Route before Crash

[Amaterasu]

From:  http://www.globalresearch.ca/false-flag-fake-video-of-alleged-pro-russian-militia-claiming-responsibility-for-mh-17-attack-was-made-before-plane-crash/5391985?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=false-flag-fake-video-of-alleged-pro-russian-militia-claiming-responsibility-for-mh-17-attack-was-made-before-plane-crash

This could almost be a smoking gun of the false flag attack with respect to MH 17. Some five hours after the loss of MH 17, the Ukrainian Security Service published a recording of alleged pro-Russian military officers led by commander Bes, who is based in Gorlovka (Horlivka), allegedly confirming that they shot down the Malaysian Boeing 777.

The video was uploaded about 5 hours after the time of the plane's crash–20:16 PM local time.

[Amaterasu]

And more...

[spacemaverick]

http://www.inquisitr.com/1382967/malaysia-airlines-experiences-close-call-of-third-catastrophe-plane-slams-on-breaks/

Malaysia Airlines Experiences Close Call Of Third Catastrophe, Plane Slams On Brakes

Malaysia Airlines experienced a close call of having a third catastrophe on its hands when one of its plane was forced to put on the brakes immediately on a runway in South Australia. The jet was forced to abort a take-off upon learning that another airliner was about to land on the runway the Malaysian plane was about to cross over.


The Australian explains that Flight MH136 was ordered to abort the take-off, slamming on the brakes to avoid a collision with a Tigerair jet. 167 passengers were aboard the Malaysian plane on Tuesday during the incident.

Flight MH136 was taking off from Adelaide Airport in South Australia heading for Kuala Lumpur. Air traffic control at Adelaide urgently alerted the plane that an incoming jet was about to land on the runway.

According to Malaysia's New Straits Times, an official reveals this:


"MH136 stopped its takeoff safely and waited the required cool-down time on its brakes before departing from Adelaide."

A statement from Malaysia Airlines reads:


"MH136 was ready to depart Adelaide Airport and already on takeoff roll when it was instructed by Adelaide Air Traffic Control to discontinue its take-off as the inbound aircraft discontinued its landing and was infringing the vicinity of the take-off path.

"Upon receiving the instruction, MH136 stopped safely."

An senior official at Air Services Australia insists that there really wasn't a close call. The official says:


"A go-around is a safe and well-practiced maneuver that sees an aircraft discontinue its approach to the runway when landing.

"Additionally, and to ensure the continued safe operations at the airport, air traffic controllers requested an international flight discontinue its takeoff.

"Safety is our priority and at no time was the safety of any passengers or aircraft compromised."

More at the link above...........

I really don't think flying Malaysian Airlines is a safe deal.

[spacemaverick]

I am beginning to think that the airliner was shot down by fighter aircraft and not a missile.  I am looking for more photographs but some of the ones I have seen and the stories coming from that part of the world are starting to make me wonder.  The holes I see in the fuselage remind me of guns and not missiles.  The type of air defense I was involved in during the 70's involved .50 cal and 20mm.  I will post some pictures and stories here when I get them together.  Proof positive?  Not necessarily but highly probable?  Yes....

[spacemaverick]

My interpretation of the holes may be in error but they sure look like either .50 cal or 20 mm (more like 20 mm) but here is some information that compares missile and machine gun fire.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysia-airlines-mh17-michael-bociurkiw-talks-about-being-first-at-the-crash-site-1.2721007

One of the first people to arrive at crash site that was not a rebel or government person.

A personal handwritten note penned by a passenger reminding themselves to stay on budget during their vacation. Scientific literature belonging to a passenger en route to a major international AIDS conference in Australia. 
Fighting intensifies near MH17 crash site in eastern Ukraine
Data recovered from MH17's cockpit voice recorder
These are just a few of the things that Michael Bociurkiw, a Ukrainian-Canadian monitor with the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), has seen up close at the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17.

There is a video included where he states that there appears to be machine gun holes.  There are rumors flying that 2 Ukranian SU-25's were shadowing the plane.

Now defense tech says it's missile shrapnel.

http://defensetech.org/2014/07/21/mh17-wreckage-photo-shows-evidence-of-shrapnel/

http://images.defensetech.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/MH17-Shrapnel-490x303.png


The SU-25 Frogfoot only has a service ceiling of around 22,900 feet and the airliner was at 33,000....

[spacemaverick]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/german-pilot-speaks-out-shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/5394111

Revelations of German Pilot: Shocking Analysis of the "Shooting Down" of Malaysian MH17. "Aircraft Was Not Hit by a Missile"



The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes showing shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that at these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent – outwardly! Furthermore, minor cuts can be seen, all bent outward, which indicate that shrapnel had forcefully exited through the outer skin from the inside of the cockpit. The open rivets are are also bent outward.



So what could have happened? Russia recently published radar recordings, that confirm at least one Ukrainian SU 25 in close proximity to MH 017. This corresponds with the statement of the now missing Spanish controller 'Carlos' that has seen two Ukrainian fighter aircraft in the immediate vicinity of MH 017. If we now consider the armament of a typical SU 25 we learn this: It is equipped with a double-barreled 30-mm gun, type GSh-302 / AO-17A, equipped with: a 250 round magazine of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells (dum-dum), arranged in alternating order. The cockpit of the MH 017 has evidently been fired at from both sides: the entry and exit holes are found on the same fragment of it's cockpit segment!



Graze on the wing
Because the interior of a commercial aircraft is a hermetically sealed pressurized chamber, the explosions will, in split second, increase the pressure inside the cabin to extreme levels or breaking point. An aircraft is not equipped for this, it will burst like a balloon. This explains a coherent scenario. The largely intact fragments of the rear sections broke in mid air at the weaker points of construction most likely under extreme internal air pressure. The images of the widely scattered field of debris and the brutally damaged segment of cockpit fit like hand in glove. Furthermore, a wing segment shows traces of a grazing shot, which in direct extension leads to the cockpit. Interestingly, I found that both the high-resolution photo of the fragment of bullet riddled cockpit as well as the segment of grazed wing have in the meantime disappeared from Google Images. One can find virtually no more pictures of the wreckage, except the well known smoking ruins.

These are not my observations but those of the German pilot.  I read the entire article at the above link and his idea could be a possible scenario.  The only question is the service ceiling on the SU-25.

[robomont]

from what i saw of the engines.forward momentum of plane stopped or slowed to almost nothing.the engines looked like they dropped straight down  and ata slight angle.tilted forward.no dirt piled in front of them.so in my opinion.something caused the plane to almost come to a halt.locked up engines and explosive decompression all at once mayby.

[ArMaP]

On another forum someone posted a link to this page, with maps and photos of places where they found pieces of the aeroplane.

I find it a little strange the way the debris were scattered, as I was expecting a more or less perfect distribution along the direction of the flight, but I'm far from an expert in this.

[spacemaverick]

On another forum someone posted a link to this page, with maps and photos of places where they found pieces of the aeroplane.

I find it a little strange the way the debris were scattered, as I was expecting a more or less perfect distribution along the direction of the flight, but I'm far from an expert in this.

When a plane is shot down you will find debris in many places if it explodes.  G Forces taking their toll on the airframe and everything else has an affect and then an explosion from a missile tends to scatter it even more.  The heaviest pieces may fall mostly in one large debris field while the lighter pieces are scattered more.

[deuem]

Yes, I would say no matter what brought it down, it exploded first. Just simple machine gun fire would put it down in one piece with no explosion.

[robomont]

sounds right deuem,
two things on my mind is the way that one panel,pic above had metal on outside concaved in like from shockwave from explosion and the parts of craft are sooo big even though ,yes its a big plane.why did that giant plane seperate?im guessing a missle headed at them with a very large load of explosive.this explosion was able to slow a plane by ripping it into big pieces and peppering with holes.
where ever that panel came from was near the side of the explosion.that panel would show which side of plane the missile came from.

that kind of explosion would vaporize a small fighter jet.
but im no expert ,just thinking out loud.

[spacemaverick]

The SU-25 is a tank killer.  The missile if used would have probably used a proximity fuse instead of a contact fuse.  I believe if it was a missile it would not be a heat seeker but one guided by radar...ground to air missile.  The SU-25's service ceiling was much lower that that of the airliner.  I would have to dig to find out what armament would be on the SU-25 to see if it had the capability to fire a radar guided missile at the airliner.  A guns approach would be be 7 to 8000 feet higher than the SU-25 service ceiling and the pilot would have to be beyond an expert even getting near the target.

The only reason I would say that is having actual experience with those type of guns when I was in the army.