Riots in Ferguson, Missouri

[Sinny]

It isn't perceptive at all. It is dismissive.

Striving for more than a degraded society is hardly calling for 'Utopia' - a word of such I'm sure nobody can define.

[VillageIdiot]

It isn't perceptive at all. It is dismissive.

Striving for more than a degraded society is hardly calling for 'Utopia' - a word of such I'm sure nobody can define.

And how long has man been seeking the ideal society? Good luck with that.

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

We is trying, nonetheless...
No, it's not a perfect society, but a whole damn lot better than what we have in place right now!
Sorry i am angry, off to bed for me....

[Sinny]

And how long has man been seeking the ideal society? Good luck with that.

... Hense the rise of feminism..

Good job guys. 

[Amaterasu]

Several things...  First, Lincoln signed away the US to foreign investors to pay war debts.  In 1871, the corporation of THE UNITED STATES was formed, with the incorporation document looking just like the Constitution, but with "united states" changed to "UNITED STATES."  In that year He (now as the corporate CEO/President) issued the first executive order.  Exec orders skew the carefully and deliberately set up balance of power in the original.  THE UNITED STATES has no Bill of Rights.

Second, We look out at Humans that have been TAUGHT to behave in certain ways by the psychopaths in control.  We then eat up Their propaganda that "Humans are bad," as They point to Their evil works and blame "Humanity."  Can We expect better behavior from Those who know no other way?  Geez.

No.  To say We are "bad" and then claim no path to a better way of doing things is pure propaganda BS being spouted.

As for how long We have been trying, against the control and propaganda of the useless eliters, to better this planet - the fact that there are now GAMECHANGERS makes that time irrelevant.  Free energy, robotics, the Interweb...  These can be used to finally prevail, teach better behavior, and make this planet a place worth living on.

[VillageIdiot]

History proves we have failed repeatedly. What is your solution?

[Amaterasu]

It isn't perceptive at all. It is dismissive.

Striving for more than a degraded society is hardly calling for 'Utopia' - a word of such I'm sure nobody can define.

Gold for You, M'dear.  I agree 100%.

[Amaterasu]

History proves we have failed repeatedly. What is your solution?

You've missed it?

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=657.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5793.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5626.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=5607.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2103.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=2759.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=604.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=7110.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=7046.0

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=6987.0

For starters.

ETA:  Again, history is full of efforts under energy scarcity, Human energy input requirements, lack of widespread and rapid information dissemination.  These things are very different now.  History has nothing to say about the new conditions.  Period.

[VillageIdiot]

We have come full circle to Utopia. Does anyone here live in the real world?

Your biggest variable, man, shoots your dream right in the foot.

[Amaterasu]

We have come full circle to Utopia. Does anyone here live in the real world?

Your biggest variable, man, shoots your dream right in the foot.

Not sure where You're seeing "utopia."  I have never claimed "utopia" as what I see We can create.  There will always be problems and issues.  What I offer is only VASTLY better than what We have now.

[rdunk]

For starters.

ETA:  Again, history is full of efforts under energy scarcity,

lol, not really the case at all. How old is our "history" and our "history records" of social living and etc - several thousand years?? On the basis of what little history I know about, me thinks humans have always lived socially "complicated lives" with friends and enemies for various reasons, but almost all of that history was before the discovery/advent use of any "ENERGY SOURCES", except maybe for wind and water. So, your statements about energy and its scarcity having been the major cause of problems of humanity is not supportable.

There have always been wars and social strife, long before any real energy was birthed. There are things about life and death on this earth that man cannot change, and the associated results of both will continue with time, regardless of whatever changes might come and go, as proposals such as TAP, and etc  might interest a few!

[petrus4]

History proves we have failed repeatedly. What is your solution?

To keep trying.  What is your proposed solution, VI?  To give up, and concede to extinction?

There is no such thing as Utopia.  This is because, in truth, there is no such thing as a fixed, stable point of any kind.  The entire creation, and life itself, is based on the principle of animation.  Nothing stands still, and everything moves; in one direction or the other.

While there is no Utopia, there is or can be a scenario, where certain problems are incrementally solved.  Thousands of years ago, if we wanted to light a fire, we would have to resort to rubbing two sticks together; a comparitively arduous and uncertain process.  Then in the eighteenth century or so, they developed flint and steel, and today we have safety matches, or steel and plastic cigarette lighters.

If we can do that technologically, then we can certainly do it politically and socially.  Currently, the political trend is to move backwards, as we are seeing in Western society; but I tend to believe that if we do not render ourselves extinct within the next hundred years, then we will learn something from our present mistakes, even if only incrementally and temporarily.  We will have to, purely in order to survive.

I do not want Utopia.  I want one demarcation point along the line, perhaps, where humanity resolves to lift itself out of the mire, and that whatever occurs from then on will be a more consistent improvement, rather than the constant reversions and relapses which we have continued to suffer from up until now; but there is no final destination.  There never will be.  There can either be a continual spiraling upward and outward, or a continual spiraling inward and downward; and I know which of those two I prefer.

Do you ask what we look for, when unnumbered generations shall have passed away? I answer, the way stretches far before us, but the end is lost in light. For twofold is the return of man to God, 'who is our home,' the return of the individual by the way of death, and the return of the race by the fulfillment of its evolution, when the divine secret hidden in the germ shall be perfectly unfolded. With a tear for the dark past, turn we then to the dazzling future, and, veiling our eyes, press forward.

-- Edward Bellamy, Looking Backward

[Amaterasu]

For starters.

ETA:  Again, history is full of efforts under energy scarcity,

lol, not really the case at all. How old is our "history" and our "history records" of social living and etc - several thousand years?? On the basis of what little history I know about, me thinks humans have always lived socially "complicated lives" with friends and enemies for various reasons, but almost all of that history was before the discovery/advent use of any "ENERGY SOURCES", except maybe for wind and water. So, your statements about energy and its scarcity having been the major cause of problems of humanity is not supportable.

There have always been wars and social strife, long before any real energy was birthed. There are things about life and death on this earth that man cannot change, and the associated results of both will continue with time, regardless of whatever changes might come and go, as proposals such as TAP, and etc  might interest a few!

Well, rdunk, this makes it clear to Me that You don't understand what the issue has been.  Because the product of meaningful energy expended has been scarce (relative to all We might want to accomplish), We placed value on the products that represent the energy We expended.  We bartered and traded.  Because much work was needed We placed contributional expectations on all of Us.  One had to produce, expend One's energy, to acquire what One needed to survive - through direct ways (growing and eating what was grown) or indirectly (barter, trade, etc.).   We accounted for the energy We each expended in this way.

Then the system of representational units was introduced, continuing an accounting of Our energy.  This system was introduced because it gave the controllers of the money supply power of life and death over Others.  The same faction has been in control of the units ever since.  They are psychopathic and have been working to keep Us in wage slavery, having to do things We don't want to do, just to survive.  Keeping Us from Our creative Selves, by exhausting Us, paying not enough to afford the tools We need, and keeping Us in desperation (the bulk of Us).  And desperate, stifled, unhappy People usually choose much poorer behavior than comfortable, free, happy People.

With free energy, accounting for the energy becomes moot.  With robots to do the work no One wants to do, We no longer need to force People one way or another to slave at them.  We can virtually eliminate desperate, stifled, unhappy People.  In turn, the overall behavior We will see will be vastly better than what We see now.

And this has only JUST NOW in the history that We have available.  Never in that history have We had the ability to replace the wage slaves with machines.  Now We can.  Of course, the moneychangers will fight against that.  The psychopaths want to retain Their power over Others.

Are You saying that it's pointless to try and institute a vastly better system?

[rdunk]

It is simply "make believe", if you think "scarcity of human energy" is a cause of all of man's problems - but then that is what TAP is, make believe, isn't it??  Right now it has to be "make believe", as there is no demonstrable real reality of it anywhere on this Earth - right? Actually a figment of someone's imagination!! 

(Note: this comment is being make on a breaking news thread, not on the Abundance Paradigm board - I would not be posting this if it were on your board)

[Amaterasu]

It is simply "make believe", if you think "scarcity of human energy" is a cause of all of man's problems - but then that is what TAP is, make believe, isn't it??  Right now it has to be "make believe", as there is no demonstrable real reality of it anywhere on this Earth - right? Actually a figment of someone's imagination!! 

(Note: this comment is being make on a breaking news thread, not on the Abundance Paradigm board - I would not be posting this if it were on your board)

Sure, rdunk.  Make believe.  You don't see that by far the issues are ones We're beset with at the behest of the psychopaths.  But..  Yeah.  You're right.  Totally and completely right.