LIVE from Ferguson, MO...Police Firing on Protestors, Media...Please share!

[Sinny]

What is distrubing is your notion that there isn't a difference between someone up holding the law and someone breaking the law.

I think you're struggling with the English language Sarg - There is a difference between the two, you stated the difference in your sentence.

You've worked your butt off building a business for your family. Countless hours of work, financial hardship thrown out the window because someone wants to steal and burn you out so they can get something for nothing?

That demands repayment or jail/community time - not death lmafo.

Killing someone is the last thing I would WANT to do but if it's my life, my family, my business (goes hand in hand)...give me a wide berth....

If killing someone is the last thing you'd want to do - then don't do it.

It's not hard haha. Killing the looter will not undo the looting 

Two wrongs don't make a right, and an eye for an eye makes the world blind.

[petrus4]

That demands repayment or jail/community time - not death lmafo.

Forgive me if this seems like a betrayal, Sinny, but I have to agree with Rock, here.  The right of self-defense is fundamental.  While all possible care should of course be taken to avoid the loss of life, if it genuinely occurs within that context, then I consider that valid.  I will emphasise that I do not condone the right of self-defense being falsely used to justify what is in fact pre-emption; but true self-defense, I think we must allow.

In a conflict, whose life did MLK value more?  That of the defender, or the instigator?

[Sinny]

No betrayal Petrus.

Apparently I'm the only one who knows how to shoot to wound on this forum....

Knee Caps - must be the Irish in me

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

No betrayal Petrus.

Apparently I'm the only one who knows how to shoot to wound on this forum....

Knee Caps - must be the Irish in me

Shoot to wound?....I think he was trying...but he kept coming....
and what frame of mind was Brown in trying to take the officers gun?....to wound?....somehow I don't think so..

[Sinny]

Shoot to wound?....I think he was trying...but he kept coming....

and what frame of mind was Brown in trying to take the officers gun?....to wound?....somehow I don't think so..

I'm a wee lass and I wouldn't need 6 bullets to stop a man.
If you need 6 bullets to stop one man, and his name is NOT Michael Myers, then maybe you need a different job.

But the crux of this whole situation is that there are underlying problems within our societies that need addressed.

Curfews and guns - will only aggravate the symptoms, not cure the cause of this unrest.

Problem is, institutionalised and indoctrinated folk apparently can't grasp that notion.

[spacemaverick]

I let myself get sucked into this discussion again.  Couldn't help myself.  Well, off to find a thread dealing with some other subject.  The thread is one sided mostly but respect to all on their opinions.  I leave this thread with one thought.

Take all law enforcement out of the world for one day and see what happens...anarchy...every person with different views will do what they think is right and looking at basic human nature...it wouldn't be pretty.

[Elvis Hendrix]

                                INTERVAL







                                          AND RESUME


                               

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

I let myself get sucked into this discussion again.  Couldn't help myself.  Well, off to find a thread dealing with some other subject.  The thread is one sided mostly but respect to all on their opinions.  I leave this thread with one thought.

Take all law enforcement out of the world for one day and see what happens...anarchy...every person with different views will do what they think is right and looking at basic human nature...it wouldn't be pretty.

Agree 100% SM...I know my opinions are too popular but what the hey...

Hope everyone has a nice Thanksgiving.....

[Sinny]

The inability of the public officials to plan and prevent property damage, when the family of Michael Brown called for nonviolent protest, looks very suspicious to anyone who thinks about this. The fires seem very suspicious and done in such a way to take away from the actual facts of the killing of Mr. Brown.

In Cleveland a 12 year old black child was shot and killed by a policeman because he had a toy gun. That terrible act is being ignored because there was a fire in Ferguson. There have been a number of these killings since Michael Brown and the news media ignores these acts of violence against people the police should be working to protect. Something is very wrong.

greatlaurel

The aerial view of the car on fire showed nothing around it. It seemed an odd place to leave an unattended car. Some real journalist should request the records on that car. Was it involved in a wreck or in need of maintenance. Was it an old car? It looked like an older model car.

I did not watch any more "news" after that. Could not take the propaganda anymore.

The fires made a cunning way to not discuss the fact there was no indictment. The fires also distract from the killing of a 12 year old boy in Cleveland on a playground with a toy gun who did not point the toy gun at the policeman who killed him.

greatlaurel

provocateurs then began to attack that police car in order to draw protesters in to help them destroy it

ChisolmTrailDem

and many protesters telling them to stop. In the 9 or 10 streams I watched last night I saw pretty much exclusively peaceful protesters. How did this get so out of control without a mob behind it? 70+ armored cops couldn't control the 20-30 people who seemed to be friging everything up? Something smells strange and it's not my weed.

Alittleliberal

sidewalk and others immediately went over to try to stop him. As the others went to stop him someone else threw something and then it was too late. But what I saw very clearly was ONE man started it. I almost flew out of my chair yelling "stop him."

jwirr

taking all these 'anomalies' into consideration, I wonder about the identity of those 'hooligans.' Agent provocateurs, maybe? 

Ineeda

gunshots that kept the fire engines away but never seemed to hit anyone or keep the police from slowly wandering around.

Almost like it was choreographed.

yallerdawg

that I watched of the car attack, it appeared to me that the provocateurs were white. I saw no persons of color joining in on that event. I wondered precisely the same things about who they were and why that car was in that spot unattended. Doesn't add up unless the suspicions regarding TPTB are included in the process.

2naSalit

the "situation" and she said that she was "INTRIGUED" that a prosecutor would wait until after 9 pm eastern to announce the findings of the Grand jury, that it made absolutely NO SENSE. I told her that I felt it was because they were setting up chaos, kill people, arrest INNOCENT people and be able to claim that everyone who was contradicting them was lying because it was dark. You would also have trouble seeing the skin colour of the people involved because well, it would be dark. She was raised in the UK and is amazed by the BLATANT racist attitudes of so much of American government and LEO's. I responded, "Welcome to America".

Ecumenist

The national guard was there for christ's sake, and there weren't gobs of people clogging the streets. I wholeheartedly agree with your post. The whole entire thing was orchestrated

Avalux

my daughter was there at Ferguson PD right when that happened (she left when the tear gas started)...based on what she saw, what I saw on the live feeds and on TV, it certainly looked like a plant to me.

Hundreds of cops, the Mo. National Guard, Homeland Security and the FBI...they left a county cop car sitting RIGHT there, no one watching it?

Call me a CT if you want, but I know what I saw and what I am seeing.

Aside from the slap in the face to justice, this whole thing, starting with the choices made by ONE cop, is going to cost the county, the city and the state so much money. Money that could have been used to actually help the people!

My mother lives in St. Louis county, but I am so hoping for a HUGE snow storm this year! The county is not going to have the resources without going in the hole and then they can explain to the tax payers WHY! (Those who have not figured it out by now may see).

logosoco

I distinctly saw on the TV footage a guy spraying down a cop car with lighter fluid. Maybe it was a different car...this was the one on the live feed that had its windows smashed out...but I remembered thinking to myself at that point - "That is really weird to see a guy THAT close to uniformed police and riot police and to be actively dousing a squad car with flammable liquids?"

Smells funny sometimes for a reason...

Moostache

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that any members of the community who get high and like to riot aren't out and about at 8:00 am.

So why would they NOT want to announce at, say, 9:00 am, giving time for people to get to work, and then block of the streets where the last protests occurred and strategically post peace officers where most needed?

It's pretty clear that some of this is MIHOP, they had months to plan.

Plan what? That's the question.

They sure didn't plan for peace, but then neither did Wilson that sad day.

NYC_SKP

..... with what was first assumed to be tear gas but turned out to be smoke deployed by the police. The cops said something like it is there to confuse the protesters (I could be wrong on the wording)... But anyway. My first thought was WTF. They are trying to incite a riot. Nothing like turning the area in to a battle zone to calm the crowd 

Hassin Bin Sober

The city of Ferguson craftily baited the media with early announcements of a statement, and then kept postponing it (it seems) which only made it all more dramatic.

Then they wait until dark, which makes it utterly impossible to see what is going on and provides cover for all kinds of mischief.

How they didn't see this coming is beyond me, unless they say it coming and wanted it to go this way.

I suppose it could have been worse, but it did what they wanted it to do, make the community look bad and distract from the real problem.

NYC_SKP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025867526

How about we obtain all the facts before we sentence these 'hooligans' to death?

[petrus4]

Take all law enforcement out of the world for one day and see what happens...anarchy...every person with different views will do what they think is right and looking at basic human nature...it wouldn't be pretty.

I do not advocate the complete removal of all police, Space.  As odd as it may seem, I am actually on the side of the police in this instance, but that is simply because in my assessment, that is where the evidence leads.

If I thought Brown was innocent, then I would also consider him worthy of support.

[Sinny]

I do not advocate the complete removal of all police, Space.  As odd as it may seem, I am actually on the side of the police in this instance, but that is simply because in my assessment, that is where the evidence leads.

If I thought Brown was innocent, then I would also consider him worthy of support.

I'm not particularly concerned about this one individual case - which DID NOT require 6 bullets IMO - but about the systematic underlying problems, which I'm sure I don't need mention again. 

[petrus4]

I'm not particularly concerned about this one individual case - which DID NOT require 6 bullets IMO - but about the systematic underlying problems, which I'm sure I don't need mention again.

As far as I am concerned, we need to be far more concerned about individual cases, than we do about, "systemic underlying problems."  Justice is not served by placing vague abstractions ahead of real crimes.  If Brown was guilty, then that needs to become known, and Wilson needs to become exonerated.  If the black community are upset about that, because Brown being an aggressor does not fit with the civil rights narrative about how blacks are supposedly always victims, then I doubt they will need to wait long to get more grist for their mill.  A white person in the LAPD or similar will very predictably commit a racially motivated crime, before long.

This is the problem with that idea, Sinny.  The civil rights movement itself wants to focus on "systemic underlying problems," rather than on individual cases, because focus on individual cases might bring to light the inconvenient truth, that black people are not always the angelic, innocent victims that they are made out to be.  Black people are human to the same degree as any other ethnic group, which means that at times, yes, they do commit violent crimes.

Neither side is perfect.  Neither side is innocent.  I will openly say that I detest civil rights, and that I will continue to detest it for as long as the agenda of civil rights, or indeed minority advocacy in general, is merely to advance the cause of social dominance rather than equality, for the minority in question.  It isn't just blacks who do it.  Feminism does it, and the gay movement does it.

They do not care about the truth.  All they care about is that they get what they want, and they also do not particularly care about who really gets hurt in the process, despite claiming that they do.

[08rubicon]

  A young black male, standing about 6 foot and weighing
around 295 pounds,bullied a store clerk,stole a hand full
cigars,encountered a white police officer doing his job, and
proceded to beat on said officer until getting shot and killed. The black community retaliated by burning their
town. Jackson and Sharpton showed up to lend support.
  About the same time, in a town close to my home, a
black 17year old girl was walking home.She was kidnaped,
tortured,murdered, set on fire and dumped by the road.
Jackson and Sharpton did not show up,no police cars burned, no demonstration.Except for the girls family, and
the hated police,no one cared.They picked up what
was left of this girl,found strange dna, tracked down and
arrested the suspected killer.He was also black,and no one
cared..So far this year,nearly a hundred young black people have been killed in this same town, mostly by other
black people, and no one cared.Jackson and Sharpton were
no shows.Crime and murder know no race, creed, age, or religion..Maybe the human race is just plain evil.
  rubicon

[petrus4]

Crime and murder know no race, creed, age, or religion.

Exactly.

[zorgon]

I find this interesting...I guess I'm not normal.

You are normal  just 'old school' 

I wanted to be a cop and corrections officer because I thought I could make a difference.  Soldier, cop, corrections officer....just wanted to make a difference.

Once upon a time....

The cop on the beat was one you knew and trusted,,, you were sure you were safe and they were looking out for YOU. If you were not a criminal you had nothing to fear from the cops

THIS was THEN   



Today I see the local news and get stories like THIS

Third Amendment Violated? Nev. Police Allegedly Invade Family's Home to Use During SWAT Call, Arrest Two for 'Obstruction' When Owner Refuses. "Henderson police arrested a family for refusing to let officers use their homes as lookouts for a domestic violence investigation of their neighbors,"



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/07/08/third-amendment-violated-nev-police-allegedly-invade-familys-home-to-use-during-swat-call-arrest-two-for-obstruction-when-owner-refuses/

Okay so that homeowner sued and won...  BUT the only reason they did this was because it was hot outside and they wanted a cool place to use for operations 

"Police officers supposedly discharged a few pepperball rounds in the direction of Mitchell's dog before allegedly locking the family pet outside for hours in the Nevada heat."

Interesting set of opinions on this thread.  How many have actually walked a mile in the shoes of an officer and know what they deal with everyday?  Just a thought...

I understand that most cops are still decent and have to deal with the worst that society has to offer

BUT  since when does that translate into being forced off the road, a gun pulled on ya... only to find the reason you were pulled over was because your tail light was out?

Since when is it okay in a traffic stop to Taser an older woman because she is nervous and takes too long fumbling in her purse to get her ID out?

The problem is "We the people..." rarely see the GOOD cops... because it's the GOONS with the Gestapo mind that interact with us. The GOOD cops are not harrassing normal citizens... the GOOD cops are not commandeering your home to stake out the neighbor... the GOOD cops are not shooting people because they were sleeping on BLM land

Sure we can sue for wrongful arrest etc... but WHEN did it get so bad that we HAVE to go that route?

The incident with the tail light... he apoplogized as he realized I was merely turning into my driveway and not running from him I did not press the matter...  The time they sent detectives to ask about my 'meth lab" (mineral assay lab in the garage) I got a written and verbal apology from the commander... because that cop looking for a perp had no business entering my garage without warning  seeing as we were all home

So what do "we the people ..." do?  Especially when the police will NOT control their own and rarely (as far as we see) punish bad cops

Thank you for being a GOOD cop