We Are One - Million Mask Movement

[petrus4]

The Police generally for the most part are law abiding people that really DO want to 'serve and protect'  Yet daily 'we the people' look at the actions of a FEW on the force that take the power into their own hands and effectively become criminals.

I admit to feeling torn by this.  I keep seeing, over and over and over again, the incessant craving that Americans in particular have, to worship the police.  I keep trying to point out why doing so is a bad idea; why irrespective of whether or not the police are good people, civilian reverence of them is a sure means of guaranteeing an authoritarian, thug based, fascist society...but no one listens.

I'm realising now, that the reason why I keep objecting to this, is because it is inconsistent with my own preferences and interests, to live within a fear-based fascist dystopia.  If the rest of you can't understand why this is a bad thing, then if it didn't affect me, I wouldn't care what you think.

The problem is, however, that it does affect me.  I don't have the luxury of simply being able to go to another planet where America's fascism, endless addiction to war, and general depravity and filth do not exist.

I don't want every day to be Memorial Day.  I don't want to listen either to politicians, or even worse, to people on a forum like this who should know better, continually reminding me that I am supposedly a helpless infant that needs the protection of authoritarian psychopaths, from entirely imaginary threats which said psychopaths have themselves invented, for the purpose of keeping themselves relevant.

I do not want police protection.  I have never asked for it, nor benefited from it.  I don't respect the police, I don't value them, and I don't recognise virtually any need for them.  I especially do not recognise, and completely reject, any moral obligation that it is implied that I supposedly have, to be grateful to them.  I owe them nothing whatsoever, and I will not accept being told otherwise.  The existence of the police for me, is completely non-consentual and involuntary; I do not want them, yet I am unable to alter the fact of their existence.

I also reject any claim that authoritarian social structures are fundamentally necessary.  If the last century in particular has demonstrated anything, it is that people are actually at their most dangerous when they are following someone else's orders.

People want authority.  They crave it.  They make excuses for it.  That is why it exists; not because it is necessary, and certainly not because it is good.  They want it because, as Milton wrote and as Khan quoted, they are all still clinging to the vain hope that they might be able to one day rule in Hell; and they prefer that hope, even if it never happens, over the prospect of serving in Heaven.

[VillageIdiot]

The only reason you walk the streets in safety is the police. I hope you find out what it's like without them. Maybe then you'll wake up and realize they're one facet of the machine standing between us and complete anarchy - rape, robbery, wanton violence. Clearly you've never been in the middle of a riot.

It's easy to sit in your little chair and type away in the safety of your basement, isn't it? Because the police maintain order in the streets. You wouldn't be so comfortable without them.

[petrus4]

The only reason you walk the streets in safety is the police.

Where I'm living, it isn't.  I'm not saying that violence never happens; but it is rare.  Usually it also only happens when people genuinely have some sort of real grievance with each other, as well.  Mainstream society is pathological in a lot of different ways; Nimbin is less so.  It's not only easier for most people to get their needs met here, but the people here also tend to be more aware of what said needs are, so we don't have a scenario where people just randomly "go off," due to accumulated frustration.

Maybe then you'll wake up and realize they're one facet of the machine standing between us and complete anarchy - rape, robbery, wanton violence.

This is the usual appeal to Hobbes.  In my experience, violence tends to be caused by three things.

a}  A cultural scenario which normalises violence, and desensitises people to it; via media and other such things.

b}  Physical and/or psychological abuse, which either causes mental illness, or again causes the individual who experiences it, to become more predisposed towards it, and to assume that it is a normal method of relating to people.

c}  Starvation or other forms of material deprivation, which motivate people to become violent, in order to get their needs met.

I live in a scenario where b} exists, but to a large extent a} and c} do not.  I also believe that the only reason why said other two conditions exist within the cities, is because of the pathological nature of cities themselves; not human beings.  When people are removed from urban environments, in my experience their behaviour overwhelmingly tends to improve, and this is because again, their ability to meet their needs also does.

It's easy to sit in your little chair and type away in the safety of your basement, isn't it? Because the police maintain order in the streets. You wouldn't be so comfortable without them.

Unfortunately for your argument, I've been in violent situations before, on multiple occasions.  In every instance, the police were very predictably nowhere to be found.  In my experience, they materialise like clockwork in order to charge people for trivialities such as traffic offenses or marijuana posession, yet are absent on an equally reliable basis if your life is being threatened.

The visible condescension of your reply, is not appreciated and also rejected; and it serves to reinforce my point.  Namely, that those who advocate the necessity of the police, will usually attempt to verbally bludgeon anyone who disagrees, back into ideological compliance, because you lack a genuinely compelling argument.

Said aggression also implies support for another contention of mine; namely, that both the police and their advocates, are in fact a much greater genuine threat to human wellbeing, than the criminals and/or terrorists which said police or their advocates, claim to protect the population from.

I think a certain amount of protection genuinely is desirable; but I think where my opinion differs from most people, is that I don't feel that I need to be protected by the police, as much as I need protection from them.

EDIT:-  I'm going to finish by making a prediction here, V.I.  Namely, that you most likely won't respond to me here again; and this is because, like most advocates of either the police or authoritarianism more generally, you aren't actually interested in debate or examination of your ideas, but rather, are only really interested in projecting belligerence towards me, because I disagree with the standard groupthink.  I've seen this sort of attitude from a few other people, here.  The goal is simply to punish me for daring to hold or express non-standard ideas; not to actually expose either your ideas or mine, to genuine critical examination.

If, on the other hand, you are willing to prove me wrong, and also improve my opinion of you in the process, I invite you to do so.

[VillageIdiot]

I don't care what you think of me. I recognize you as a taker. That's all I need to know about you.

[petrus4]

I don't care what you think of me.

I can hope that I eventually learn to do likewise.

[robomont]

lmao.yea thats why i just beat two in court,because they are so honest and upstanding.
thats right,i beat a no insurance ticket by a state trooper and charged two of them with stalking.
i win !!!!!

[Sinny]

The only reason you walk the streets in safety is the police. I hope you find out what it's like without them. Maybe then you'll wake up and realize they're one facet of the machine standing between us and complete anarchy - rape, robbery, wanton violence. Clearly you've never been in the middle of a riot.

It's easy to sit in your little chair and type away in the safety of your basement, isn't it? Because the police maintain order in the streets. You wouldn't be so comfortable without them.

This is the same harsh clash of opinion that me an a co-worker have.

She picked up on the fact most mention of the police are accompanied with a scowl and look of disgust on my face.

Well, my reaction has only been shaped by my environment and experiences.

The police should be there to serve and protect, under common law.

Anything beyond that, is treading on me.

They currently have a number of authority and ego complexes going on and are outragiously corrupt. I imagine their training is inherently incorrect.

Our queens tax enforcers need to taking down a peg or all.

[Sinny]

I don't care what you think of me. I recognize you as a taker. That's all I need to know about you.

I see him as a contributor.
So many dare not venture where he goes.
But life's all about give 'n' take, aye.

Observation: Petrus more often than not demostrates and utilises logic, common sense, integrity,  moral and ethical correctness. It is amusing and disappointing for me to see that most attempts at challenging his thoughts and expressions are woefully uneducated, emotional and substandard.

Which perfectly demonstrates what is wrong with todays society.
Most people do not realise how the systems brainwashing is so deeply embedded into their being.

Not aimed at anyone in particular btw.

[robomont]

anonymous is not añonymous ,now that tor has been hacked.

as long as backdoors are hardwired into every chip in the world,no one is safe.

ive said this for years but folks dont listen.

i can hack anything ,but i choose not to.its what seperates the men from the boys.

hacking is just another form of rape.when its used to hurt peeps.

[thorfourwinds]

Observation: Petrus more often than not demostrates and utilises logic, common sense, integrity,  moral and ethical correctness. It is amusing and disappointing for me to see that most attempts at challenging his thoughts and expressions are woefully uneducated, emotional and substandard.

Greetings:

GOLD !





tfw
Peace Love Light
Liberty & Equality or Revolution

Hec'el oinipikte  (that we shall live)

[zorgon]

People want authority.  They crave it.  They make excuses for it.  That is why it exists; not because it is necessary, and certainly not because it is good.  They want it because, as Milton wrote and as Khan quoted, they are all still clinging to the vain hope that they might be able to one day rule in Hell; and they prefer that hope, even if it never happens, over the prospect of serving in Heaven.

But it IS necessary...

From the first group of humans that huddled in a cave, they seek LEADERSHIP... Humans are a social animal. As such the majority require direction and someone to look after them. USUALLY it is the STRONGEST that rules not necessarily the WISEST

But no matter how you cut it humans will always need authority in some form.

It is up to the WISE ONES to make sure that authority works for the good.  It is not the NEED for AUTHORITY that is a problem... it is the selection of the SHEPHERDS that is need of change.


The reason CULTS thrive is because people need someone to follow, same with Religions, same with political parties... same with reeanctment roleplaying groups...  NOTHING will get done until someone steps up to LEAD and start the ball rolling

You can make speeches on this forever, you can state your opinion, but it will not change the basic fact of human nature.

Humans are inherently lazy and want/need someone else to do the work for them.  Take away the police, and you will soon have the gangs running the place.  Like we had in the days of Al Capone. People here in Vegas will even say that maybe Vegas was better when the Mob ran it... even our mayor was a mobster at one time... 

But would you REALLY want the gangs of today running the show?  The Cartels that back them are a lot worse than even the worst cop...

[petrus4]

Which perfectly demonstrates what is wrong with todays society.
Most people do not realise how the systems brainwashing is so deeply embedded into their being.

I appreciate the support, Sinny, as always.

I truthfully do not understand how pro-authoritarian indoctrination has managed to embed itself as deeply within the minds of many people as it has, these days.  It may be because the methods of Western governments have become much more mature than they have been in the past; although I suspect a deeper issue is at work.

I think the real problem, is the fact that over the space of nearly a century, humanity's integrity has been gradually and systematically eroded.  I am aware of the Machiavellian perspective regarding human nature, even within the medieval context, and I know that it does have a certain degree of validity.

Nevertheless, my opinion (and said opinion is reinforced on a daily basis by direct experience) is that as a species, humanity is currently in a more thoroughly degraded and degenerate state than ever before.  I do not, however, believe that fascism or governmental authority is a cure for said degeneracy; quite the opposite.  As Crowley said, freedom strengthens the will.

It is not being locked in cages, or having uniformed, governmental babysitters that will improve human nature; and if we constantly insist that said human nature is the reason why we require such, then as a species we are genuinely doomed.

Anarchy is not the most dire threat to us, at the current time.  An excess of order is.  Everywhere I look online, now; everywhere I go, if I venture outside of Nimbin, or when I turn on the television while I am here, everything I am confronted with reduces down to a single thing.  An unceasing, continual, inescapable cry, echoing from the souls of probably 90% of contemporary humanity.

"We want our Fuhrer!"

If there is one thing that I have observed for the last two decades, which at times reduces me to a level of genuinely near-suicidal depression, it is that; humanity's relentless, insatiable, and apparently incurable craving for fascism.

[robomont]

the mindset you talk of comes from the howdy doodi ,lone ranger shows.
never question and always obey authority.most of the shows from the 50's and 60's were like this.
the new movement in authoritarianism is in the schools.as i have a teen in highschool.ive experienced this with the principle who makes up the rules as he goes along.expecting absolute obediance.so i cussed him out on the phone.

its taken three years but i think ive got through to them that i really dont care what they think.

except for her calculus teacher,hes cool.

[Wrabbit2000]

The problem is, however, that it does affect me.  I don't have the luxury of simply being able to go to another planet where America's fascism, endless addiction to war, and general depravity and filth do not exist.

What did the United States do to you personally..or to someone you know/love to cause such venom and toxic feeling inside you? I've wondered this before in general with folks I chat with, but that last line struck me as so vicious to the topic, I had to raise the curiosity.

There are a great many things I don't care for about the American system myself...but to suggest American is the root of problems our planet faces, and to the extent of suggesting off-world escape as the only means to leave it? It seems to suggest a very very shallow understanding of the world and America's place in it. America is not good these days...true. However, to suggest there isn't worse shows a person has lived a decent life thus far, to still hang onto such ideas.

I do not want police protection.  I have never asked for it, nor benefited from it.  I don't respect the police, I don't value them, and I don't recognise virtually any need for them.

So you are properly trained, well armed and entirely willing to kill other people without hestitation, without compassion and without need to reflect and feel bad about it later, right? You HAVE the means..right now...and within reach to defend yourself by deadly force and you are entirely WILLING to do that...yes?

When in public, if you witness someone being attacked..you can, do and WILL continue to intervene physically and risk yourself for the benefit of someone outmatched or outclassed by thugs or bullies...correct? If your front door is kicked down by home invaders (it happens enough to be a concern now, almost nation wide).....you have everything you need to 'dispatch' the problem ...right?

Finally... When we consider the fact there are human pieces of trash and animals on two legs who view other human beings as little more than prey to feed on during life.....You have the time, training, ability and willingness to hunt those predators on your own time, so they may not cull from the population like a lion on the African savannah, correct?

I raise these points, because if you are not both willing and prepared to do these things, yourself, then police ARE a needed part of society. They always have been, and the need will only grow as populations produce more "defects" to put a cold term to this, by sheer odds and laws of averages. SOMEONE must hunt those people turned feral animal, because they kill freely as open sport.

Should cops be held to a higher standard? Absolutely. Should benefits of the doubt be given to misconduct by them? Absolutely not. Should they be held higher for respect in soceity? Yes.. They absolutely should for being willing to DO the job none of us would want, would be very good at or would LAST at for very long at all.

^^^ With power comes responsibility though and with respect comes obligation. Getting the respect the do DEMANDS we hold them, without question, to account for whatever they do wrong. Without exception and without the work to find excuses which currently becomes job #1 when something comes up. After all...Police are who normal people call when excuses have run out in their own situation. The last we need is to have a new set arrive.

People want authority.  They crave it.

People want it for what I noted above. The world is not a nice place, and Darwin hit it 100% correct. It is survival of the fittest, down to the street level where that law actually DOES still rule life and death. Even in America.

You and others may be perfectly willing to become your own police force, when needed, and do so with cold efficiency as called upon. Most people would rather pay OTHERS to do it....and so, they need those others available and willing to take a paycheck for the work.

Hence... We don't want authority. We NEED it. Much like any society of size does. It's been tried the other way, and outside occasional groups of like minded people choosing to cooperate? It's never been anything but bloody and terrible failure.

I'd challenge anyone to show me an example which turned out differently and wasn't limited to like minded people participating.

** sorry.. A piece of quoted text outside quotes got left in the middle of things.. My bad

[WarToad]

"Nature is red, in tooth, in claw."  Humanity is not outside of nature.  We are a warlike race, always have been, still are, the future does not look different.  The strong dominate, the weak kneel or die, the smart manipulate their way through the game as best they can and stay under the radar.

This has been your tutorial, welcome to the game of Life.