Cathode ray propulsion

[vril-ya]

average atomospheric pressure is 1.03 kg per square cm, now imagine a disc with a surface of 20m. it's easy to calculate the force operating on a disc is 3,278,272.8 kg. now fix a strong cathode ray pointed upwards from the center of the disc to create a vacuum and huge difference of pressure is produced. disc will accelerate at a great speed.



objects is always sucked into the area of lower pressure. speed could be controled by varying the level of vacuum and the direction by simply pointing the cathode ray in different direction.

since the pressure is uniform, this craft wouldn't experience inertia and could make sudden changes of direction.

what do you think?

[Pimander]

When you say cathode ray do you mean fire an electron gun upwards from the top of the disk?

If yes, how would that create a lower pressure above the craft than below.

[vril-ya]

there is nothing mysterious about that, even B2 is alleged to charge it's leading edge to reduce drag by ionizing the surrounding air and like charges repell.

cathode ray shooting electrons which are in turn deflected by a magnetic field would produce a vacuum surrounding the discharge, that is, an area of lower atmosheric pressure.

[vril-ya]

in simple terms, something like this

[Pimander]

That makes sense to me.  This would lower inertia but would not eliminate it entirely as it is impossible to isolate the craft from the environment using an electron gun.  It looks like it could lift the craft though if the electron gun was powerful enough.

So the golden question is how much power would you need to actually lift the craft?  Is it efficient enough to be able to carry on board fuel?

Of all the viable modes of propulsion I have seen so far the stumbling block has been how to carry a fuel source capable of powering the craft for any length of time.  They often require a lot of energy and would therefore require a highly efficient fuel source (mass to energy).  That is the reason Lazar's fuel would be such a boon if we had something like that.

[vril-ya]

according to my understanding, if the whole craft is being accelerated uniformly by any energetic gradient, no inertia is experienced within it.

for the smaller craft, i estimate little power would be enough. also, it may not need any fuel on board. if you create a vacuum in vertical direction, you could use that huge air pressure differential to also run the turbines/generators.

so craft could have a hollow section through the middle to allow the air flow generating the needed power.

i wonder if there are cathode ray tubes of higher power available. and if there are those not made of glass but stronger material.

That makes sense to me.  This would lower inertia but would not eliminate it entirely as it is impossible to isolate the craft from the environment using an electron gun.  It looks like it could lift the craft though if the electron gun was powerful enough.

So the golden question is how much power would you need to actually lift the craft?  Is it efficient enough to be able to carry on board fuel?

Of all the viable modes of propulsion I have seen so far the stumbling block has been how to carry a fuel source capable of powering the craft for any length of time.  They often require a lot of energy and would therefore require a highly efficient fuel source (mass to energy).  That is the reason Lazar's fuel would be such a boon if we had something like that.

[Pimander]

so craft could have a hollow section through the middle to allow the air flow generating the needed power.

It won't work with a hole through because the air moving up through it would reduce the pressure above the craft.

i wonder if there are cathode ray tubes of higher power available. and if there are those not made of glass but stronger material.

I think  they are used in welding at high power.

[vril-ya]

It won't work with a hole through because the air moving up through it would reduce the pressure above the craft.

"it won't work", i heard that one before. usually it's wrong. air going thorugh hole would INCREASE the pressure above the craft, but the pressure from below is still far greater.

I think  they are used in welding at high power.

maybe

[Pimander]

air going thorugh hole would INCREASE the pressure above the craft, but the pressure from below is still far greater.

The air would immediately move from below the craft through the hole to compensate for the movement of negatively charged ions away from the top of the craft.  The pressure would stay the same above and below because of he hole.  NO hole would work better.

It is a good idea but the hole would not be a good thing in my opinion.  The key is to have a very efficient way to fire electrons.  If you can find one it would be very interesting.  I know old TV sets had cathode rays in them so it is probably possible to guess what the mass of a large electron gun would be.

I think electron guns (not cathode ray tubes) are used with high power welding.

[vril-ya]

the hole would work perfectly as the sucked air is immediatelly ionized and expelled, so low pressure area is continuosly maintained. the expelled air would minimaly affect the vacuum above the craft, if at all.

electron guns are used in welding. these are quite huge. it is questionable if it could be made practical regarding the size/power ratio.

The air would immediately move from below the craft through the hole to compensate for the movement of negatively charged ions away from the top of the craft.  The pressure would stay the same above and below because of he hole.  NO hole would work better.

It is a good idea but the hole would not be a good thing in my opinion.  The key is to have a very efficient way to fire electrons.  If you can find one it would be very interesting.  I know old TV sets had cathode rays in them so it is probably possible to guess what the mass of a large electron gun would be.

I think electron guns (not cathode ray tubes) are used with high power welding.

[Ellirium113]

objects is always sucked into the area of lower pressure. speed could be controled by varying the level of vacuum and the direction by simply pointing the cathode ray in different direction.

Again won't work in space...where are you going to create a low pressure area in a perfect vacuum?

[vril-ya]

and who ever said this method is intended to be used in space? with this system you could achieve great escape velocity. if you are refering to reactionless drive, it does indeed work in space, sooner or later you will have to admit it.

Again won't work in space...where are you going to create a low pressure area in a perfect vacuum?

[Pimander]

the hole would work perfectly as the sucked air is immediatelly ionized and expelled, so low pressure area is continuosly maintained. the expelled air would minimaly affect the vacuum above the craft, if at all.

I disagree.

If you blow away from a hole (effectively what the electron gun would be doing) from above a hole then you pull air through the hole.  Without a hole is far better.  All that is continuously maintained with a hole is the movement of air through it.

Which would cause most lift, a wing with a hole in it or a wing without?  The disk in this design is effectively doing the job of a wing.

electron guns are used in welding. these are quite huge. it is questionable if it could be made practical regarding the size/power ratio.

That is what I thought.  I have never heard of a lightweight electron gun but they are probably possible.  Given a design need there is always an engineer who can pull it off.

[vril-ya]

you can disagree, but this doesn't mean you are right. of course air is pulled through the hole, so it propels the turbine, but when air reaches the vacuum above the craft, electron gun breaks it downs and expells it. so, vacuum is always maintained. in short, it's much better with the hole, as it doesn't affect the propulsion while it provides power for the craft.

this system is not my invention, it is used by a number of ET species and is confirmed over multiple ET contacts. the ETs that use this system say they use it as stationary power plants for electrical energy on their planets as well.

I disagree.

If you blow away from a hole (effectively what the electron gun would be doing) from above a hole then you pull air through the hole.  Without a hole is far better.  All that is continuously maintained with a hole is the movement of air through it.

Which would cause most lift, a wing with a hole in it or a wing without?  The disk in this design is effectively doing the job of a wing.

tv cathode-ray tubes use little power (~100Wh). but if 10 of these were stacked together, that would already give 1kWh. with such power it would be possible to experiment on a small scale model, let's say 45-50cm disc.

That is what I thought.  I have never heard of a lightweight electron gun but they are probably possible.  Given a design need there is always an engineer who can pull it off.

[Pimander]

you can disagree, but this doesn't mean you are right.

It doesn't but I am right.

of course air is pulled through the hole, so it propels the turbine, but when air reaches the vacuum above the craft,

There won't be a vacuum or much lower pressure because of the hole.

electron gun breaks it downs and expells it.

It would only ionise some of the molecules, it would not "break it down".

so, vacuum is always maintained.

How if the pressure is not lower because of the hole allowing air through?

in short, it's much better with the hole,

Only if you want to blow air through a hole rather than fly.

[ as it doesn't affect the propulsion while it provides power for the craft.

It would use power to power the electron gun.  It could pul back some of the energy but lots will be lost doing other work.

this system is not my invention, it is used by a number of ET species and is confirmed over multiple ET contacts. the ETs that use this system say they use it as stationary power plants for electrical energy on their planets as well.

Well it must work then.

tv cathode-ray tubes use little power (~100Wh). but if 10 of these were stacked together, that would already give 1kWh. with such power it would be possible to experiment on a small scale model, let's say 45-50cm disc.

Make sure you don't put a hole through the middle because it won't work.  Maybe ET was lying to throw you off the scent.