Do we need police training reform?

[robomont]

i need that vacuum pump for my nasa space poop challenge.whats its power usage,120vac?does it have a 12vdc possibility?nevermind ,i see it there,that would work perfectly.

[Irene]

A question for those who don't like the police, don't think they're necessary, and don't want them around -

What do you think your neighborhood would be like without the police?

[The Seeker]

Legalization of marijuana for medical and home use would be a good thing in many ways as Z pointed out, and yes Armap, there aren't any heroes at this point ; my point of view is to work together, not against each other, to make the system workable. There is no perfect solution, but there are too many striving for anarchy and chaos... if the system isn't working, figure out a solution...

And yes our dear soon to be a bad memory Potus has managed to push racial tensions and division to an all time high... the bald bare truth is those people of color are the racists and bigots behind most of the bull poop, and I have a tendency to tell them about it; their ancestors sold them because their ancestors were undesirable, and what are they crying about? My ancestors got screwed out of the whole damn country, massacred repeatedly and driven to some of the crappiest lands in the nation for reservations, so what is their problem?

Seeker

[petrus4]

What do you think your neighborhood would be like without the police?

For me, the question is hypothetical.  I've never practically seen the answer.  I've known a family who were living in South Africa for a while, and I'm aware that the traditional answer is that society would degenerate into similar conditions.

I don't necessarily think that it would, for the same reason that I no longer make the mental generalisation that all Muslims are terrorists.  Most humans have a fairly strong instinct for self-preservation, and if you are sane, you also realise that being involved in violence in any sense reduces the odds of said survival occurring.

Although we are currently moving towards extinction as I have previously noted, that is not because of the actions of the majority, but rather because we have an extremely pathological minority, (government) who said majority have been deceived into thinking that they need to obey without question or critical thought.  Said majority are generally not violent, if left to their own devices.  My view of human nature is not positive, but said negative opinion has more to do with humanity's moral cowardice and lack of both intelligence and initiative, than it is because of our supposed capacity for violence.

In pretty much every human group I've seen where there has been violence, the percentage of said group who were truly responsible for said violence, generally hasn't exceeded 20%.  The other 80-90% go along with said violence primarily in order to ensure that they do not become targets themselves, rather than because they are truly predisposed towards it.  Bullies and tyrants gain authority because of the cowardice of the majority, not because said majority want to be violent themselves.

If the police didn't exist, I'd expect to see a return to something like feudalism, rather than outright anarchy.  The psychopathic minority who genuinely are willing to engage in violence would end up as warlords, with everyone else as their subjects.  The only real difference between that scenario and the current one, is that in our current scenario, people in our society who would be warlords in Afghanistan or Africa, either join the police, are part of the government, or become corporate CEOs.

The police don't fundamentally prevent the strong from preying upon the weak, in the manner that they like to delude themselves that they do.  All they really do is cause said predation to end up taking different, and slightly less direct forms.  The same sorts of people riding around on camels with AK-47s in the Middle East, sell each other derivatives on Wall Street.  The form the violence takes is different, but the amount of death and suffering that it causes is ultimately pretty much the same.  If anything, I'm inclined to view white collar crime as actually worse than outright physical violence, because at least if someone walks up to you with a knife, you can see it coming and have some chance to defend yourself.

You might try and appeal to me with the argument that if it wasn't for the cops I could have someone burst into my house and attempt to kill me at any time, but the reason why that argument isn't going to work with me, is because I've already had that happen, even with said police's existence.  I also know about multiple cases of people who've rung 911 during a home invasion, only to have the cops show up and engage in just as much violence towards the callers as the original people who'd broken in.

So again; I don't view the police as saviours, and I don't see any real reason to.

[petrus4]

There is no perfect solution, but there are too many striving for anarchy and chaos

I don't want chaos.  I want a scenario where whatever order we have, isn't based on the rule of child murdering, psychopathic paedophiles.  There's rather a large difference.

And yes our dear soon to be a bad memory Potus has managed to push racial tensions and division to an all time high...

Barry didn't do that.  Soros and his Leftist army of white useful idiots from the universities did.  I'm not one of Barry's fans necessarily, but I don't believe in blaming people for things they didn't do.  Barry's done more than enough things that we can dislike him for if you want to.

In my own mind, Obama's main crimes are impotence on the one hand, and duplicity on the other.  The impotence is in terms of him not stepping in and preventing certain things (like said race riots) when he probably could have, and just standing in front of a podium and making pretty, ineffectual speeches about it.  The duplicity is defined as again making said pretty speeches, and then walking back into the White House and ordering drone killings of various people.  Not to mention not closing Gitmo like he said he was going to, and perpetuating various foreign wars.

My main problem with Obama is the fact that he has always tried to present himself as someone who actually gives a damn about people, when in reality he's just another rich, warmongering psychopath like anyone else who has ever been in the White House, who only does anything if it benefits him or his reptilian (figuratively speaking) friends.

[robomont]

in robos dream world,my neighbor tommy blairs head would be anchored to a pike in my front yard,as an example of what happens when you shine microwave on me ,my wife and daughter for 15 years.
beside that pike would be one of my other neighbor mike ottmer for aiding him.
then another 3 for 3 judges that crossed me.
another for a constable and 10 deputies.
my yard would be full of pot plants of different species.
and i would own all the land of these people who used corrupt law to steal from me.
and the rest of my neighbors would respect me for cleaning this county of its filth.we would have harvest festivals and picnics and cherish each other.
in robos dream world.i can always wish.

[zorgon]

i need that vacuum pump for my nasa space poop challenge.whats its power usage,120vac?does it have a 12vdc possibility?nevermind ,i see it there,that would work perfectly.

2 aa cells  lasts 7 days  They run about $1000.00   one time use  That is why medical bills are so high

These are on the market   The clinical study is to prove to Medicare that they are cheaper than ongoing treatment

I guess we can move these posts

[robomont]

1000 for a vac pump,somebodies makin some dough.yep move it king zorgon.just had to speak up when i saw it.its perfect size and shape.plus it needs to last 6 days.the button is in perfect spot too and could be activated under suit with gloves on.ive already submitted my idea and stated i needed something like that.only you already had it.lol.theres 13000 entrees so its basically a joke at this point.nasa cant properly review that many ideas by dec20.

[zorgon]

Pretty sure the device itself is reusable  just the suction pad over the wound would be discarded. If the doctor intends to toss it I will get her to let me keep it

[Irene]

This is an example of deadly force used when a baton would have been my personal weapon of choice. The officer doesn't have to outrun a bullet. The kid has two knives. He could easily have been disarmed with the right placement of the stick.

Police officer in Nevada shoots knife-wielding high school student

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

I'm not going let him stab or seriously injure someone or myself. He's lucky he only got shot once.

[Irene]

I'm not going let him stab or seriously injure someone or myself. He's lucky he only got shot once.

I've used the stick successfully many times. I don't think, in this case, the sidearm is necessary.

But, it's a matter of opinion. I understand why it's your choice.

[The Seeker]

Irene, up until about 6 months ago someone threatening me with a knife wasn't that big a deal, been there, done that, and he got a lot more stitches than I did; now, since I am the one armed bandit I am afraid I would choose to pop a cap before I would allow injury to myself or others...

without seeing the video and knowing the entire scenario as it went down it is difficult to make a call...


Seeker

[astr0144]

When you said that you worked for Law Enforcement Irene...was that as a Police Officer or similar (Without rereading what you  told us I cannot recall exactly what your positions were) where you had Self defence or Martial Arts training ? ....From what you say , I would assume so as you seem confident that you have used a stick successfully on several occasions...

We see it on the Movies...where the Cops often take out opponents using hand to hand combat or Stick Like weapons...

But in real life... unless one is very well trained / skilled and depending on what one may judge about an opponent that they face... that you would often have to make quite a quick decision as to what action to take..

I imagine that it depends upon various factors as to whether one would attempt to use that type of approach or to use a Firearm...

It maybe often if someone seems smaller or weaker than themselves, they may risk a non firearm approach...

but if that smaller weaker looking opponent is armed... then it may not be that easy to make a judgement..

If one was facing some bigger stronger looking opponent.. it would seem quite a risk to chance other means if it could become a life and death situation.  and more so if they were armed with a Knife.

but it is a risk what ever facing anyone with a knife..

I think that you have been brave if you have decided to use a stick in such situations if the person had a knife...

but maybe also one develops a 2nd sense to make a judgement if they are likely to actually use a knife or not ! if one has seen such situations several times....or trained to make such judgement's..

I've used the stick successfully many times. I don't think, in this case, the sidearm is necessary.

But, it's a matter of opinion. I understand why it's your choice.

This is an example of deadly force used when a baton would have been my personal weapon of choice. The officer doesn't have to outrun a bullet. The kid has two knives. He could easily have been disarmed with the right placement of the stick.

Police officer in Nevada shoots knife-wielding high school student

[astr0144]

I am sure this could be quite an indepth topic..

It does seem that thru out Life most of us (although I suspect all) face people we perceive as Bullies.

Initially for me I thought that it only was to apply when I was young and growing up where you always had older , bigger children who could dominate the younger smaller ones.

For me I think it was more the Physical side that was an issue..

In early adult stage... I had thought that things then level out...

but as life goes on it then becomes more mental..and you find you can still be dealing with older / larger people but also the younger ones who have come up from below...

Depending how we have been brought up and what we may have been told by our parents..may determine more how we looked at things..and then later we may start realize that often we seem bracketed...and maybe are within certain boundaries as to what we can deal with..

Some seem to deal with people with relative ease...others can not.. much maybe to do with nature nurture / ones psychology / intellect, personality but also family size with older younger brothers / sisters..who I think if they are from larger families will be more used to dealing with people and certain situations as they get older...but also I suppose some will have also been heavily worn down by that in some cases.. People who maybe of one sibling may deal with life better in other areas...

I think its all just a  lottery !

and what may seem as bullying to one is the norm to another...and just seen as banter and horseplay...

and that's just in day to day normal life...

when it later comes to the Work place... then things can get unpleasant when you have to work day in day out with people for several hours a day for several years...

Seems like you have had some quite disturbing experiences Petrus if you have faced such threats or situations... 

Looking back and seeing how you survived them and being able to reflect on them must make you look at your present situation in another light !

I agree that at times...depending upon our life experiences... that it can be easy to think that living life alone is the only way to actually live a safer life...

It all so often seems that someone or something can all so easily occur to disturb our plans and thoughts they we may not wish for..



Petrus

For me, the world consists almost exclusively of bullies; and this is true to the point where the only time when I feel genuinely physically safe, is when I am also physically alone.  In my experience, all the police have ever really appeared to be, is simply a more severe and better armed group of bullies than the civilian kind; and worse, they deprive me of the ability to defend myself from said civilians.  I have experienced home invasion, an attempt to kill me, and having said home set fire to, in multiple seperate incidents, and the police were nowhere in sight until well after said crisis had already passed.