Pegasus Research Consortium

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Days_in_May

I never thought I would live to see a US President possibly overthrown because he wanted a peace deal with Russia - just like the movie, "Seven Days In May".

Question: what is more insane than anything Trump has ever done?       Answer: the people who hate him so much that they keep pushing for WW3, just to oppose him.

Quote from: Eighthman on February 16, 2017, 02:35:48 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Days_in_May

I never thought I would live to see a US President possibly overthrown because he wanted a peace deal with Russia - just like the movie, "Seven Days In May".

Question: what is more insane than anything Trump has ever done?       Answer: the people who hate him so much that they keep pushing for WW3, just to oppose him.

I have an off topic question for you; do you by any chance live in Naples Florida or have the initials NB? An answer is not required, but you did state that Libeterianism is your passion and you do remind me of someone...

8)

Seeker

Sorry, nope.   Libertarianism is like falling in love with a woman you know you can never live with.

I think the Founding Fathers had a sense that some practical freedoms came from common action - such as law enforcement or defending a nation from attack.  I can't see how living under the gun of not having health insurance is any kind of freedom.

Quote from: Eighthman on February 17, 2017, 12:03:46 AM
Sorry, nope.   Libertarianism is like falling in love with a woman you know you can never live with.

I think the Founding Fathers had a sense that some practical freedoms came from common action - such as law enforcement or defending a nation from attack.  I can't see how living under the gun of not having health insurance is any kind of freedom.

Go back in time and look at the constitution; the majority of the responsibility lay in the hands of the states, not the Fed; until Woodrow Wilson abrogated the constitution when he signed into law the Federal Reserve System (which is privately owned) and the IRS, giving birth to the Corporation of the United States of America...


Seeker

States you say?  Nevada in particular is mostly Federal land - it barely exists at all.

Quote from: Eighthman on February 16, 2017, 02:35:48 PM
I never thought I would live to see a US President possibly overthrown because he wanted a peace deal with Russia - just like the movie, "Seven Days In May".

I think you'll find people are more concerned about the fact he wants to ignore the constitution and does not believe in an independent judiciary.  Slightly worrying. ::)

The biggest threat I see is that the NSA - Deep State takes total control of the government - if they haven't already.

They can spy on, expose, frame, or destroy anyone, anywhere.  Judges, Congress, Senators, the President.

Flawed as he is,  Trump has to win this fight.  Arguing about the Constitution is small compared to this threat.

Quote from: Eighthman on February 17, 2017, 01:01:56 PM
They can spy on, expose, frame, or destroy anyone, anywhere.  Judges, Congress, Senators, the President.

You mean like the FBI did with Hilary Clinton's Presidential run? Absolute gold!  ::)

QuoteArguing about the Constitution is small compared to this threat.

Well not really.  I thought the constitution is the reason you all need to have guns.  Get defending it then. :P

In the UK the independence of the Judiciary from the legislature and Prime Minister is sacrosanct.  I thought it was in the US (although the fact that Supreme Court judges are appointed by political parties makes a mockery of that).

The USA and its status as a guiding light for democracy in the world is looking diminished right now.

Quote from: Pimander on February 17, 2017, 03:57:01 AM
I think you'll find people are more concerned about the fact he wants to ignore the constitution and does not believe in an independent judiciary.  Slightly worrying. ::)

The problem with the American Judiciary is that instead of objectively interpreting the law as they are supposed to do they are politicizing their decisions.

That is not how it is supposed to work.

Quote from: Irene on February 17, 2017, 11:09:07 PM
The problem with the American Judiciary is that instead of objectively interpreting the law as they are supposed to do they are politicizing their decisions.

That is not how it is supposed to work.

I'm calling BS on this one.

It is enshrined in the American constitution that all people are equal regardless of nationality and religion, etc.  Trumps exec order discriminates on the basis of NATIONALITY and those people are all of one particular RELIGION.

That is not politics it is illegal to run the country in a manner that is not in line with the constitution.  That is law not politics.  Trump is attempting to discriminate on the basis of nationality (and effectively religion) which is illegal.  The fact that he is picking a fight with the judiciary also violated the principle of an independent judiciary.

And if judges do things politically (like making Bush President when Gore won by voting in line with party affiliation) then is it surprising?  Your politicians are involved in appointing judges which is anathema in a modern democracy.  The judiciary should be independent of the legislature (lawmakers or the politicians) but in the USA it is not.

In the UK politicians have no say in the appointment of judges and we don't even have a written constitution.  You would NEVER see the Supreme Court Justice appointed by a politician in the UK or any REAL democracy.

So, who does appoint judges in the UK? And as far as appointments over here, yes, the Potus makes the choice, but the house of reps and the senate have final say so on who is appointed...

as to the immigration issue, you sir are as bad as the MSM; all Mr Trump is wanting to do is greatly improve the screening and vetting process from 7 areas rife with radical (possibly terroristic) intent...
public opinion is behind him on this issue;it is the idiot left that is stirring the pot, and this is the same bunch that is paying protestors and busing them to locations; I daresay if the left was in the white house for the next 4 years that the united states would crumble if not be involved in WWIII...

The main factor behind all this leftist bovine feces is not even an american national or citizen; George Soros. I will not voice my opinion of Mr Soros or what my recommendation for dealing with him should be...

8)

Seeker

Quote from: the seeker on February 21, 2017, 12:39:28 PM
So, who does appoint judges in the UK? And as far as appointments over here, yes, the Potus makes the choice, but the house of reps and the senate have final say so on who is appointed...

Exactly.  Which means the judiciary is not independent.  So don't complain when the judiciary start politicking as the system is ridiculous.

Quoteas to the immigration issue, you sir are as bad as the MSM; all Mr Trump is wanting to do is greatly improve the screening and vetting process from 7 areas rife with radical (possibly terroristic) intent...

Again this is BS.  If it was about security then why not vet Pakistani and Saudi Arabians then?  That is where most of the overseas terrorists attacks have originated from (including 9/11).

It is discrimination.  You have to treat everyone the same under the constitution.  Vet everyone if it isn''t discrimination.

Quotepublic opinion is behind him on this issue

That is irrelevant.  It is still illegal.

The whole point in the rule of law is so the mob don't rule.  To protect minorities.

Don't forget 3million more people voted for Hilary than Trump so in this case it is the majority who are protected by the law.   ::) :P


I don't understand how idiotic people can be.  America is losing the plot.  Why not just bin the constitution? ::)

Trump has minority rule and is now attacking the judiciary.  That is perilously close to something that happened in Germany in the 1930s.

Pimander,

Your following quote tells me you know nothing about what it is to be an American.

QuoteI don't understand how idiotic people can be. America is losing the plot. Why not just bin the Constitution?

The document is sound. It is how it is being applied and interpreted that is the problem.

Pimander,

Again, you are missing something with this statement.

QuoteIt is enshrined in the American Constitution that all people are equal regardless of nationality and religion, etc. Trump's exec order discriminates on the basis of NATIONALITY and those people are all of one particular RELIGION.

The Constitution does not apply to all non-citizens. The President's Oath of Office swears him to protecting the US from enemies foreign and domestic, which is what Trump is attempting to do.

I'm sure it is confusing for someone who is not a citizen of the US to understand that, in recent decades, the enforcement and interpretation of our Founding document has been warped by self-interested politics.

Trump is trying to return the country to its intended focus.

Quote from: Irene on February 21, 2017, 06:02:29 PM
Pimander,

Your following quote tells me you know nothing about what it is to be an American.

The document is sound. It is how it is being applied and interpreted that is the problem.

Indeed. It is the ultra liberal idiot left that is the problem; as far as the popular vote, I am awaiting details of the investigations ongoing in certain ultra liberal states that possibly allowed millions of illegals to vote simply because they had a driver's license issued by that same state, and no proof of being a legal citizen or having the right to vote.

Seeker

Irene, both of your comments - #12 & #13 - are right on!! Well said!!!

Quote from: rdunk on February 22, 2017, 04:23:30 PM
Irene, both of your comments - #12 & #13 - are right on!! Well said!!!

Thanks, rdunk! :)

Quote from: Irene on February 21, 2017, 06:13:41 PM
The Constitution does not apply to all non-citizens. The President's Oath of Office swears him to protecting the US from enemies foreign and domestic, which is what Trump is attempting to do.

It's a shame that didn't happen when a load of foreigners came and stole all of the land from the native Americans nearly wiping them and their culture out! :P

QuoteTrump is trying to return the country to its intended focus.

You are a nation of immigrants.  It seems that you lost sight of that a long time ago.  Hypocrits...  ::)

As I said, the places where you have had terrorists from overseas are not included in this order.  It is a nonsense but as long as it satisfies bigots then its a good thing I guess.

QuoteThe English noun bigot is a term used to describe a prejudiced or closed-minded person, especially one who is intolerant or hostile towards different social groups (e.g. racial or religious groups), and especially one whose own beliefs are perceived as unreasonable or excessively narrow-minded, superstitious, or hypocritical. The abstract noun is bigotry.

Posted by Pimander -

QuoteYou are a nation of immigrants.  It seems that you lost sight of that a long time ago.

No, we haven't. We now have the resources to properly vet people who want to enter our country and we have every right to do so as a sovereign nation.

What we do, as citizens, is really none of your business, as an alien.

As I have said before, our government has a duty to protect us from threats, foreign and domestic, and that is exactly what it is doing now.

QuoteAs I said, the places where you have had terrorists from overseas are not included in this order.  It is a nonsense but as long as it satisfies bigots then its a good thing I guess.

You are pretty free and easy with the label. Maybe we should talk about the British predilection for snobbery. For centuries you've had your noses so high in the stratosphere you've suffered acute hypoxia.

Deny that. You can't. What label would you like?

DEFINITION -

big·ot
[?bi??t]
NOUN

a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions

Look at that, Pimander. It perfectly describes you.

I'd insert a cliché, but I think you know what I mean.  ::)

Quote from: Irene on February 22, 2017, 08:05:17 PM
What we do, as citizens, is really none of your business, as an alien.

Of course it isn't.  Not if you believe we are all citizens of this planet.  It is all peoples business what the rest of the planet is up to.

QuoteYou are pretty free and easy with the label. Maybe we should talk about the British predilection for snobbery. For centuries you've had your noses so high in the stratosphere you've suffered acute hypoxia.

I think you'll find that the British ruling class do.  The working class are nothing like that.   ::)

Quotea person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions[/b]

Look at that, Pimander. It perfectly describes you.

I'm not intolerant of people having different opinions.  I am intolerant of hypocrisy, bigotry and false logic.

If the order was to protect US citizens (rather than to pretend to fulfil an election pledge) then the order would have applied to people from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia where most overseas terrorists originate.  It is just an attempt to appear to keep a promise to shut out Muslims which Trump has NOT DONE.  It's called breaking promises.

Like the promise of a "beautiful" wall or the promise to remove the elite.  It won't happen.

Look at who he has appointed to his cabinet.  They are the elite. Former bankers, former board members of Global Corporations.  You have been blinded by a demagogue.  I don't deny that it is perfectly within your right as nation to allow a minority by 3 million to force ant elitist liar on the majority of the population.  But it is also my right to speak my mind about it when his policies are nonsense (see next post)

Trump's Immigration and Refugee Executive Order is Being Used to Recruit Islamist Terrorists

(http://www.heatherhastie.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Immigration-1-300x214.jpg)

Terrorist Recruitment Tool

Because it doesn't matter whether or not Trump's travel ban is a Muslim ban. You can give all the reasons you like why it isn't a Muslim ban. The reality is, it looks like a Muslim ban, and not just to the extremists. And so jihadis can, and do, use it to recruit people to their cause.

(http://www.heatherhastie.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Imgn-Order-1-300x202.jpg)

One of the major reasons the ban is a bad idea needs more attention than it's currently getting. That is its value to terrorists as a recruitment tool

*SNIP*

Others who don't blindly support the current administration but nevertheless provide it frequent cover, such as Greg Gutfeld of Fox News, mock the recruitment tool argument mercilessly but using the same premise. "They already want to kill us," he laughs. "It can't get worse than that." According to him and people like him, Trump is just fulfilling a campaign a promise to make people safer.

The reality is, he's making them less safe. More terrorists are being created by the perception of an increase in anti-Muslim sentiment from the United States. Trump is reinforcing the Clash of Civilizations narrative that terrorist recruiters feed off.

(http://www.heatherhastie.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/US-Terrorists-by-Status-2001-2016.png)


None of the deadly attackers since 9/11 emigrated or came from a family that emigrated from one of these countries nor were any of the 9/11 attackers from the listed countries. The order would not have saved a single life or stopped a single terrorist attack in the last 16 years!  You will probably ignore this inconvenient fact.

QuoteSeven of the lethal attackers were born American citizens.

    Of the twelve lethal jihadist terrorists in the United States since 9/11:

    * three are African-Americans
    * three are from families that hailed originally from Pakistan
    * one is from a family that came from the Palestinian Territories
    * two came from Russia as children
    * one emigrated from Egypt and conducted his attack a decade after coming to the United States
    * and one each had families that originally came from Kuwait and Afghanistan

SOURCE: http://www.heatherhastie.com/trumps-immigration-refugee-executive-order-used-recruit-islamist-terrorists/

The order makes the UK - not just the USA - less safe.  It is my business too!

Facts are facts.  They are not opinions, although I know the new administration prefer "alternative facts"! :P

The enemy should be Saudi extremism - Wahabism.   Since Saudi Arabia has purchased much of the US government, Trump must proceed carefully.  In the meantime, he can maintain this Muslim terrorist narrative. Sadly, this is how politics works..... In the '70's, women didn't have to wear head coverings in much of the Arab world.

The problem with Saudi terror is that they support the petrodollar. In fact, that support is why they expect the US to be their mercenaries in overthrowing Assad.  Blood for oil (or oil dollars).

The guy to watch is Putin - he may have a plan to hit the petrodollar, along with China. His adviser, Glazyev is big on this as a way to defeat the US permanently.

Going back to 1994, Timothy McVeigh was a homegrown terrorist.  More recently, it was Dylan Roof and Robert Dear. 
In Colorado, judges are appointed, and then the citizens vote when they come up for retention.
For SCOTUS, a judge is proposed by the sitting president when a vacancy occurs.  Congress then has a duty to vote on confirmation after the requisite background investigation and hearings.  Congress is elected to represent the citizens of the United States.  Unfortunately, Congress appears to be much more interested in representing whoever lines the pocketbook.
For the record, I am not affiliated politically, and I would describe myself as a pragmatist.

Shasta

Quote from: Pimander on February 23, 2017, 09:15:01 AM
Of course it isn't.  Not if you believe we are all citizens of this planet.  It is all peoples business what the rest of the planet is up to.
I think you'll find that the British ruling class do.  The working class are nothing like that.   ::)
I'm not intolerant of people having different opinions.  I am intolerant of hypocrisy, bigotry and false logic.

I cannot take you seriously when you are in Kumbaya Mode. If you consider yourself working class then you are definitely a hypocrite. You come across as a pompous a**.

QuoteIf the order was to protect US citizens (rather than to pretend to fulfil an election pledge) then the order would have applied to people from Pakistan and Saudi Arabia where most overseas terrorists originate.  It is just an attempt to appear to keep a promise to shut out Muslims which Trump has NOT DONE.  It's called breaking promises.

Like the promise of a "beautiful" wall or the promise to remove the elite.  It won't happen.

Trump's EO was based on the Obama Administration's list of countries that are a threat to the US. You are also forgetting the President has access to intel that the general public does not.

Lastly, our government agencies have foiled a number of terrorist plots set to play out on U.S. soil using the intel gathered from people we've grabbed coming into the country.

QuoteLook at who he has appointed to his cabinet.  They are the elite. Former bankers, former board members of Global Corporations.  You have been blinded by a demagogue.  I don't deny that it is perfectly within your right as nation to allow a minority by 3 million to force ant elitist liar on the majority of the population.  But it is also my right to speak my mind about it when his policies are nonsense (see next post)

Trump is a businessman who campaigned on a business/defense platform. His Cabinet picks reflect his promise to strengthen the economy and protect the country.

As regards the popular vote, I have no doubt it is a reflection of votes by illegals and others legally ineligible to vote. The left has repeatedly encouraged illegals to vote and aided and abetted their efforts by interfering with efforts to enforce voter ID laws which, in my eyes, is outright treason.

Pimander Quote:

"It's a shame that didn't happen when a load of foreigners came and stole all of the land from the native Americans nearly wiping them and their culture out! :P"

  America has been a country for 250+ years , we are very very young compaired to the European, Asian, Etc. countries, which are 1000s of years old. So please clarify who where these "Foreigners" that "stole" the land? AND and upset "Native American Culture" ?  If you can back off and look at the larger picture, there is No Native Culture Anywhere that has not been invaded and changed by a great  amount of blood spilled, and dominated for a time or still is.

I am not saying it is right, I am saying it is the Nature of Mankind on this War Planet. So I don't mind if you Hate America, that is your privilege .  But you also need to understand, that there is no "Innocence" here. The blood the the invaders, more than likely, runs through ALL of our veins, so the" Pot calling the Kettle Black"  Is quite Silly.

Pimander, I can tell by your Hate Trump  posts, that you are a Globalist, following the Ideology of the Obama and Minions Plan, because if Trump falls, that is where the World and it's people will end up. After all that is why the well healed Corporatist,  are hell bent to destroy Trump.

Or perhaps you believe that this massive , expensive "Hate Trump Fest" came from else where? It is so easy to stir, the misinformed into foaming at the mouth, idiots, what you read or what you have pounded onto your psyche, Does Make A Difference! There is not one bit of Documented Truth in your "Hate and FearTrump" post. But ,that is how Propaganda works, stirred up, but not sure why?

I know that you believe in what you say, but really why do you say it? You, personally must do the digging to find out what comes from Trump and his actions or your just parroting what others say , that is not necessarily  an honest or truthful evaluation.

With respect to illegal voters... I am much less concerned with them, than I am with people who don't register, don't vote, but then complain about the election results.  Voter registration is stringent enough, that illegal voters are not prevalent.

Shasta

Quote from: Shasta56 on February 23, 2017, 10:00:58 PM
With respect to illegal voters... I am much less concerned with them, than I am with people who don't register, don't vote, but then complain about the election results.  Voter registration is stringent enough, that illegal voters are not prevalent.

Shasta

We have no control over people who refuse to vote. We can control illegal voting by passing voter ID laws in every state and enforcing them at the polls.

Voter ID is the weak link. I know. I'm in a state that is battling in the courts over this very issue.

ID is verified when registering to vote.  Vote by mail ball it's are signed, and the signature is verified.  Mandatory voting would address a number of problems, including suppression of black voters who are simply trying to vote while black. 

Shasta

Quote from: Shasta56 on February 23, 2017, 11:13:32 PM
ID is verified when registering to vote.  Vote by mail ball it's are signed, and the signature is verified.  Mandatory voting would address a number of problems, including suppression of black voters who are simply trying to vote while black. 

Shasta

Not sure how I feel about mandatory voting. We are a free country, allegedly.  :P

Shasta, there are 12 states right now that allow illegals to get driver's licenses; and in those same states all they have to have to vote is a valid driver's license; from the figures I have seen reported, there could possibly be 6 million illegals, with valid registered driving privileges, and quite possibly a lot of them voted, especially in California  ::)

Seeker