Quote from: The Seeker on June 11, 2018, 03:12:11 PM
as for the planet itself, countless times the cycle has begun and ended, only to renew and begin again until the next extinction and beginning, yet lamestream archeology still sadly refuses to consider that the pyramids are far older than egyptian society, that the fore runner civilizations told about in the Vedas had a nuclear war, and that there is truth buried in every myth and legend...
If you can provide real evidence that the pyramids are far older than Egyptian society I would like to see it. :)
Quote from: ArMaP on June 11, 2018, 09:40:23 PM
If you can provide real evidence that the pyramids are far older than Egyptian society I would like to see it. :)
The kings stele between the forepaws of the sphinx says they were found and uncovered, not built; but that destroys the mythos and drama over how the egyptians actually built them; plus, all the erosion on the sphinx and the pyramids was caused by water, not wind blown sand; but that is just my opinion, ArMaP
Zawai Hawass made a total mess out of Egyptology
Check this out.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ziu2ygE_Wc
Personally I respect Graham Hancock - so I may well be coloured on the subject - but why wouldn't they guy debate and discuss the subject matter with Graham, its not as if Graham is a forceful and domineering personality :) :) :D
To be honest his reaction is nothing short of hilarious .. 8) 8)
Ohh hoo.. more .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4NnCAZcxHg
Quote from: The Seeker on June 11, 2018, 10:14:00 PM
The kings stele between the forepaws of the sphinx says they were found and uncovered, not built;
Where can I find a transcript of that?
once again Zawai Hawass proves the Peter Principle
idiot.!!!!
Quote from: ArMaP on June 11, 2018, 09:40:23 PM
If you can provide real evidence that the pyramids are far older than Egyptian society I would like to see it. :)
The only real evidence that survives that I am aware of if the INVENTORY STELLA of KHUFU... which states that he found the Pyramid already an ancient structure in need of repair and that he repaired it. Archaeologist use everything else in that stella as gospel, except choose to ignore that part...
The carbon dating on the straw mud used to repair it would thus date the time of REPAIR not the time of building
... the FACT that there are ZERO pictographs showing the Egyptians building pyramid when they record every other daily activity. Since building a pyramid would have to have been a major daily activity yet NOT ONE picture of quarrying or building or the camps that would have been required.
The ONLY thing we see on the walls is them moving a single statute with ropes slaves and a sled and based on that Archaeologists simply assumed that is how they did everything else
... the FACT that there are no early built versions where they developed the technique needed to get to a large one. We didn't learn to build skyscrapers before we built mud huts
... the FACT that we see water marks and water erosion on the Sphinx that date it to the last time their was water that high. We would not see such marks on the pyramids because the CASING STONES have been removed in modern times and all such markings would be on those stones
... the FACT that the puzzle block stones are the same as the ones in other parts of the world, particularly those UNDER the foundations of the Incas... which were until recently thought to have been built by the Incas but since shown to be much earlier and the Inca merely built on top of them
... the FACT that the Rosicrucians, who date their existence to Akhenaten and Nefertiti say so, but you won't see those documents That is why they are STILL a secret society...
Problem is your Uber Skeptic mind will overlook the obvious :P
Quote from: zorgon on June 11, 2018, 11:38:25 PM
The only real evidence that survives that I am aware of if the INVENTORY STELLA of KHUFU... which states that he found the Pyramid already an ancient structure in need of repair and that he repaired it. Archaeologist use everything else in that stella as gospel, except choose to ignore that part...
Where can I find a transcript of that?
Quote... the FACT that there are ZERO pictographs showing the Egyptians building pyramid when they record every other daily activity. Since building a pyramid would have to have been a major daily activity yet NOT ONE picture of quarrying or building or the camps that would have been required.
That fact doesn't prove that the pyramids are far older than Egyptian society, only that there are no records of how they were built.
Quote... the FACT that there are no early built versions where they developed the technique needed to get to a large one. We didn't learn to build skyscrapers before we built mud huts
Explain that fact, please. Isn't it based on the assumption that the larger pyramids are older?
Quote... the FACT that we see water marks and water erosion on the Sphinx that date it to the last time their was water that high. We would not see such marks on the pyramids because the CASING STONES have been removed in modern times and all such markings would be on those stones
How do water erosion marks on the Sphinx prove that the pyramids are far older than Egyptian society?
Quote... the FACT that the puzzle block stones are the same as the ones in other parts of the world, particularly those UNDER the foundations of the Incas... which were until recently thought to have been built by the Incas but since shown to be much earlier and the Inca merely built on top of them
I don't know what you mean by "puzzle block stones". Could you explain that?
Quote... the FACT that the Rosicrucians, who date their existence to Akhenaten and Nefertiti say so, but you won't see those documents That is why they are STILL a secret society...
Why should I believe an invisible document from the Rosicrucians?
QuoteProblem is your Uber Skeptic mind will overlook the obvious :P
Give
real, confirmable facts, please, not assumptions, and I will consider them. :)
Quote from: ArMaP on June 11, 2018, 11:51:51 PM
Where can I find a transcript of that?
Good question... I had it years ago but don't know where it is..
Maybe if we put out some OTTER BAIT it will turn up :D It's something I need to finish up anyway... it is likely THE most important proof
::)
Inventory Stela And Its Message: Controversy About This Artifact Still Remainshttp://www.ancientpages.com/2017/07/15/inventory-stela-and-its-message-controversy-about-this-artifact-still-remains/
Quote from: zorgon on June 12, 2018, 01:34:33 AM
Good question... I had it years ago but don't know where it is..
At one time it seems you had that posted at spookz in one of the pyramid threads; and I am sure I had a copy of that material, but I can't find it in any of my files, also drawing a blank on searches for it...
it has went poof!!!
ya know otter bait is going to hafta be chocolate from now on or something yummie
here ya go only took a minute or so would have been faster but i stopped to watch the vid and read some
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne8GwNkYI24
http://www.jasoncolavito.com/inventory-stela.html
c. 670 BCE
translated by James Henry Breasted
1906
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~googong/giza6.html
https://everything2.com/title/Inventory+Stela
Discovered by Auguste Mariette in the 1850's, the Inventory Stela has been rejected by traditional Egyptologists as a forgery (an incredibly made one at that). That is because they refuse to believe it can be telling the truth, as it flies in the face of everything they believe. The Stela (kind of an obelisk with writing on its sides) was found in a 21 Dynasty temple of Isis built into the pyramid temple of Henutsen, daughter of Khufu.
http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,37704,37711
https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/topic/169892-sitchins-folly-the-inventory-stela/
https://zsitchinindex.wordpress.com/the-earth-chronicles-index/book-2-the-stairway-to-heaven/chapter-13-forging-the-pharaohs-name/
Chapter 13: Forging the Pharaoh's Name
http://grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?1,37704,37704
http://giza.fas.harvard.edu/objects/54850/full/
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/egipto/fingerprintgods/fingerprintgods10.htm
http://historum.com/ancient-history/35621-great-pyramid-not-built-khufu.html
Quote from: ArMaP on June 11, 2018, 11:51:51 PM
That fact doesn't prove that the pyramids are far older than Egyptian society, only that there are no records of how they were built.
The reason there are no records in Egyptian society is because the Egyptians didn't build them :P I am STILL WAITING for just one person, archaeologist or ANYONE to cut me a 1 foot perfect cube of granite that is highly polished using just a wooden mallet and copper chisel... and you don't even have to quarry it.
Until you (anyone) can do this, all the theories are bunk :P being a stone cutter myself I KNOW I could not do it with those tools and those tools are the only ones they supposedly had according to archaeologists. If you cannot reproduce the results that one claims others used, then you have no case.
QuoteExplain that fact, please. Isn't it based on the assumption that the larger pyramids are older?
According to current geological dating these 8 pyramids all built within a 50 year or so range are the oldest http://www.oldest.org/structures/pyramids/
QuoteHow do water erosion marks on the Sphinx prove that the pyramids are far older than Egyptian society?
Because we have historically accurate records of the last time the water was that high in Egypt. :P No one had a reason to hide that data :P
QuoteI don't know what you mean by "puzzle block stones". Could you explain that?
Then you haven't been paying attention to posts and to the work of Brian Forster
THESE are puzzle block stones fit so closely you can't get a knife blade between them They are found all around the world under many other ruins especially in Peru and Bolivia but in Egypt as well
PERU(https://universalhiddeninsight.weebly.com/uploads/1/2/6/5/12652767/3-1395315549-inca-stonework_orig.jpg)
EGYPT(https://universalhiddeninsight.weebly.com/uploads/1/2/6/5/12652767/3802cc1b08efd5576ae409540d860ace_orig.jpg)
QuoteWhy should I believe an invisible document from the Rosicrucians?
I will see what I can get for you :P They are not invisible :P If you were a serious seeker of truth you would join the organization :P
Back when I started seeking answers I ran into a dead end on Tibet and the GP The only way to get more than what was available in the libraries and the universities before the internet would be to go to those two places. At the time money was tight and politics prevented going to Tibet
At that time the RC sent me THIS and since then I have a LOT more information... Quite frankly, I don't really care if you believe it or not :P but just being skeptical without ever going on a trip to check it out yourself is not a very good way to find truth :P
(http://thelivingmoon.com/44cosmic_wisdom/04images/Rosicrucian/Pamphlet002.JPG)
(http://thelivingmoon.com/44cosmic_wisdom/04images/Rosicrucian/Pamphlet003.JPG)
QuoteGive real, confirmable facts, please, not assumptions, and I will consider them. :)
The inventory stela IS a confirmable fact :P
For a very long time it was believed that the puzzle block stone in peru were put there by the Inca... we now know that is not true and they are much older... and the Inca merely built on top of those ruins... as did later Peruvians build on top of that/// It is very easy to tell where each society left off, especially in Cuzco.
The Gobekli Tepi ruins are dated to 12,000 years ago, yet that date was set by a SINGLE camp fire that was found inside the site... so they could be much older and the camp fire was put there by hunter gathers taking shelter in ancient ruins.
The point here to consider is that if archaeologist of today WERE in deed trying to cover up facts that would destroy their theory, evidence would be hard to find. Some is destroyed, some hidden away in museums (like the Baghdad batteries) and a lot is misinterpreted based on pre-conceived ideas
Those puzzle block stones had it not been for the likes of Brian Forster we would never have seen all these examples of precision stone work around the world. because it doesn't fit the agenda of mainstream archaeology
That stone carved wheel in Egypt.. had it not been for the likes of Graham Hancock being on the scene, even I would never have know they found HUNDREDs of them (mostly broken)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vCVC0TTeJto/hqdefault.jpg)
ORIGINAL
(https://www.lfcreds.com/reds/proxyb.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fconsciouslifenews.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2FGiza-Pyramid-Ancient-Machining.jpg&hash=23fdaf03190deca1cef7f0b455b55466)
So sitting at home on a computer using main stream info to make opinions is hardly condusive to finding truth... You need to get out there and do hands on research.
Fortunately today EVERYONE has a cell phone or digital camera so there is no stopping anyone from taking pictures of the odd stuff... like the block of granite that was not finished that clearly shows a saw cut that was not completed
This is not the one I was looking for but its a good one too. You can see two other small cuts that were in the wrong spot
(https://www.lfcreds.com/reds/proxyb.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fconsciouslifenews.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F04%2FGiza-Pyramid-Ancient-Machining.jpg&hash=23fdaf03190deca1cef7f0b455b55466)
Pk, thanks to otter and her otter ways, I found the file I was looking for, from 2004:
QuoteThe Inventory Stela, however, states unequivocally that the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx existed long before Khufu (The Sphinx much, much longer) and that he built his temple near the "house of the Sphinx" and so possibly only renovated the Great Pyramid (or possibly completed it, as the size of the blocks changes significantly in the construction.) Regardless of the interpretation as it concerns the Pyramid, it states the Sphinx was already there a great while. The Stela also mentions that lightening struck the tail of the nemes headdress of the Sphinx and destroyed it. This of course could only have happened if the Sphinx already existed in Khufu's time.
In support of this is the fact that nothing was ever found in the Great Pyramid, not even leavings of looters, and no carvings exist in the entire structure. The so-called "King's Chamber" is a perfect (well, almost perfect), featureless, near-seamless "golden rectangle"-shaped chamber made out of massive granite blocks with an identically-proportioned granite box (also found completely empty) inside of it. In the case of the Sphinx, it is weathered by water (with the exception of the head, which was probably carved from a lion's head to that of a man in Egyptian times, possibly by Khufu), a geological fact that makes it over 8-10,000 years old.
https://everything2.com/title/Inventory+Stela (https://everything2.com/title/Inventory+Stela)
Perhaps they did THIS
(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/hh58cadffc.jpg)
In IDAR OBERSTEIN, the famous agate cutting lapidary factory they used giant stone cutting wheels powered by a water wheel
(http://www.florilegium.org/files/CRAFTS/Gem-Cutting-art_files/image001.png)
Still use them today
(http://www.noreen.ch/collection/idar06.jpg)
But at least with Idar oberstein the evidence is still there :P
(http://]http://dreherdt.com/upload/medialibrary/183/183916f7b256e66632e9719d8cb21760.jpg)
(http://gizamedia.rc.fas.harvard.edu/images/GEM/02/GEM_3568_001.jpg)
QuoteLimestone inventory stela of the daughter of Khufu. Inscription begins [anX Hr mDd nswt -bjtj Xwfw dj anX] "Live the Horus Medjed, the king of Upper and Lower Egypt Khufu, given life" and continues with a dedication to Isis. In the course of the inscription there is mention of a temple to the goddess built next to the Sphinx to the north, west of another temple dedicated to Osiris. The middle of the stone is filled with inscriptions in four registers. In the fourth register, Apis and the Great Sphinx occupy the ends of the scene. The center reads: "The place of the Sphinx Horemakhet is south of the temple of Isis, the regent, and north of the temple of Osiris, lord of Rostau." The bottom of the stela is crudely executed.
http://giza.fas.harvard.edu/objects/54850/full/
Spinx already there :P
Oh dear seems we DO have Egyptian grinding stones :P
(http://www.ancient-origins.net/sites/default/files/field/image/Evidence-is-Cut-in-Stone.jpg)
Quote from: zorgon on June 12, 2018, 02:12:49 AM
The reason there are no records in Egyptian society is because the Egyptians didn't build them :P
Lack of proof of something is not proof that the opposite happened.
QuoteUntil you (anyone) can do this, all the theories are bunk :P being a stone cutter myself I KNOW I could not do it with those tools and those tools are the only ones they supposedly had according to archaeologists. If you cannot reproduce the results that one claims others used, then you have no case.
Once again, the lack of proof is not proof of the opposite. If the tools they say were used are not capable of doing it then it means that
probably other tools were used, only that.
QuoteAccording to current geological dating these 8 pyramids all built within a 50 year or so range are the oldest http://www.oldest.org/structures/pyramids/
I think your numbers are wrong, the oldest on that list is 158 years older that the newest.
The oldest one is a pyramid made of mastabas on top of each other, something they were doing before.
QuoteBecause we have historically accurate records of the last time the water was that high in Egypt. :P No one had a reason to hide that data :P
But the marks are on the Sphinx, not on the pyramids.
QuoteThen you haven't been paying attention to posts and to the work of Brian Forster
No, I have more important things to do with my time. The name "Brian Forster" means nothing to me.
QuoteTHESE are puzzle block stones fit so closely you can't get a knife blade between them They are found all around the world under many other ruins especially in Peru and Bolivia but in Egypt as well
PERU
(https://universalhiddeninsight.weebly.com/uploads/1/2/6/5/12652767/3-1395315549-inca-stonework_orig.jpg)
EGYPT
(https://universalhiddeninsight.weebly.com/uploads/1/2/6/5/12652767/3802cc1b08efd5576ae409540d860ace_orig.jpg)
I thought it could be that, but I like to know what I'm supposed to be commenting on. :)
Although the method is the same the rocks, obviously, are not the same. :P
It's no surprise to find the same method used by people that used the same materials.
Even children that start making Lego buildings learn that having aligned blocks is the best way of not being able to make a stable structure.
QuoteThey are not invisible :P
If I can't see them then they are invisible to me. ;D
QuoteIf you were a serious seeker of truth you would join the organization :P
I'm interested in knowledge and in the truth, not in organizations.
QuoteQuite frankly, I don't really care if you believe it or not :P but just being skeptical without ever going on a trip to check it out yourself is not a very good way to find truth :P
I can't even afford to visit the village where my father was born, some 200 km from me. Truth is important, getting food is more important.
QuoteThe inventory stela IS a confirmable fact :P
It is, so lets talk about some Inventory stela facts.
First, how old is it?
I suppose this is the most complete translation of the Stela of the Daughter of Cheops.
The inscription on the frame:
QuoteLive the Horus Medjed, the King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Cheops, given life. He found the house of Isis, Mistress of the Pyramids, next to the house of Haurun, northwest of the house of Osiris, Lord of Rasetau. He (re)built the pyramid of the king's daughter Henutsen beside this temple. He made an inventory, carved on a stela, for his mother Isis, the mother of the god, Hathor, Mistress of the Sky. He restored for her the divine offerings and (re)built her temple in stone, that which he found in ruins being renewed, and the gods in their place.
The rest of the inscriptions have many missing parts:
QuoteThe temenos of Haurun-Harmakhis is south of the temple domain of Isis, Mistress of the Pyramids, and north of Osiris, Lord of Rasetau.The writings of the temple of Harmakhis were brought to make the inventory (bis) of this divine being (?) of the great [. . . ] his effigy, its casing entirely covered with designs [ . . . ] he made [. . . ] which is in gilded stone of seven cubits [ . . . ] in the temenos of Harmakhis, in conformity with this model that is carved [...] . He set up an offering table for the vases [...] . May he endure. May he live forever and ever, his face turned toward the east.
Found on pages 100 to 102 of this PDF (http://gizamedia.rc.fas.harvard.edu/documents/zivie-coche_sphinx.pdf).
Quote from: fansongecho on June 11, 2018, 10:25:57 PM
Personally I respect Graham Hancock - so I may well be coloured on the subject - but why wouldn't they guy debate and discuss the subject matter with Graham, its not as if Graham is a forceful and domineering personality :) :) :D
Hawass is a self-serving narcissist. I've seen him demonstrate that multiple times. All he cares about is being the man in the spotlight.
I don't think it's fair to accuse him of single handedly destroying Egyptology, however; there is more than one rotten apple in that particular cart.
I know the Netjeru exist. I am not going to go into specifics, but I have had contact with one of them on more than one occasion. It wasn't physical contact, no; but eventually you get to the point where something happens with sufficient consistency, over a sufficient number of times, that you realise that if you keep attributing it to imagination or hallucinations, you're actually lying to yourself.
My own opinion regarding the Great Pyramid is that Egypt is a country which has had multiple civilisations; so whenever you say "the Egyptians," built something, it's necessary to then ask which ones. I believe the knowledge of the oldest group(s) were given to them directly by the Netjeru themselves. I don't necessarily believe that the Netjeru are aliens in Georgio Tsoukalos' sense of the word; they're more extradimensional acorporeals than physical beings who exist somewhere in our own space. Or at least, that is what they are
now. They very well could have had physical bodies at one point for all I know.
I am also inclined to believe that between different astrological ages, some of the most fundamental rules actually change. So there are things which could happen during Pisces or Aries, and those things might have been recorded, but living in Aquarius we laugh at that and assume it must be just myths, because everything in Aquarius is much more physical and materialistic than it is in some other signs' ages.
I don't think Khufu built the great pyramid, but I will admit that if Armap asked me for proof of that, I wouldn't be able to give it to him. I will say that I don't think it makes logical sense, however, for the inside of the pyramid near where that cartouche is, to be covered in graffiti from the Romans and other people, and underneath all of that, to pick one particular Egyptian identifying mark, and assume complete certainty from that, that you know who the pyramid's builder was. I can not say with certainty that Khufu did
not build the pyramid, but I don't believe that academia or anyone else can say with certainty that he did. I don't think that sort of certainty exists when you are talking about something as old as that pyramid.
Nobody really knows anything. We can go and look at it and dig around, and one person might say Khufu built it, and others might say that aliens did it. Neither group have time travel, so they can't go back 6,000 or however many years it was and definitely check. Archaeology is not a consistently hard science. Sometimes it is, in the sense that you can dig something up, and rediscover the manner in which said artifact was made, and then if you can reproduce said result with said method, you can at least say that that
might be the method that was used, although you can't say that it definitely was, or that the method you've found is the only possible one, because you have no way of proving that.
A truly scientific attitude, is one which says that the only thing you can know, is what is immediately and directly in front of you, and does not try and make general inferences if some element of the proof for said inferences is not there. I will admit that I allow myself
suspicions, and again, my suspicion is that Khufu may not (I will not say
did not) have built the pyramid; but I acknowledge that suspicion is conjecture without hard proof, which means that if said proof is found which contradicts that, then if said proof is compelling, I have to accept it.