https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/california-three-states-tim-draper_us_5b20ba0ee4b09d7a3d7885f5
06/13/2018 04:34 am ET
Should California Really Be 3 States? Voters Will Decide In November.
"California government has rotted," said Tim Draper, the man behind the Cal 3 proposal to split the state.By Nick Visser
QuoteA dramatic proposal to split California into three separate states has gathered enough signatures to appear on the ballot during the upcoming midterm elections in November.
Tim Draper, the main proponent of the initiative and its prime bankroller, gathered at least 402,000 signatures to divide California into three parts: a state called Northern California sprawling from Oregon down to San Francisco, another called California that'd primarily include Los Angeles and a band of land up the coast, and another dubbed Southern California that'd include Fresno, Bakersfield and San Diego.
The plan would create three differently sized regions, but all would have roughly the same population. And while California currently has two U.S. senators, the new bloc of three Californias would have six under the new proposal.
"Three states will get us better infrastructure, better education and lower taxes," Draper told The Los Angeles Times last summer after his proposal for the measure was submitted. "States will be more accountable to us and can cooperate and compete for citizens."
While voters will get to decide on the measure, it faces an uphill battle regardless of the outcome. If passed, the state constitution mandates both houses of the California legislature approve the proposal before it's submitted to Congress, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. It's also likely to be challenged in court.
The Times notes that, if the unlikely event were to take place, it'd be the first state to divide itself since West Virginia became an official entity in 1863.
This is the third time Draper has attempted to split up the state. He bankrolled efforts in 2012 and 2014 to divide the region into six different Californias, spending around $5 million in his most recent endeavor.
"California government has rotted," Draper told The Mercury News last month. "We need to empower our population to improve their government."
A separate coalition, dubbed NoCaBreakup, has already begun organizing to fight Draper's proposal. Opponents are worried how the state's vast resources would be divided were the state to break apart and say the proposal would harm poor regions while demarcating rich areas that generate most of California's current tax revenue.
"This measure would cost taxpayers billions of dollars to pay for the massive transactional costs of breaking up the state, whether it be universities, parks, or retirement systems," Steven Maviglio, a political consultant who helped fight Draper's past proposals, said on Twitter. "California government can do a better job addressing the real issues facing the state, but this measure is a massive distraction that will cause political chaos and greater inequality."
The new initiative will be certified by the California Secretary of State, Alex Padilla, on June 28 and will appear on the ballot in November.
People in northern Colorado wanted to split off into their own state a while back. I think people need to try harder to get along.
California Supreme Court Blocks Ballot Proposition To Split The State In 3A San Francisco area billionaire has been pushing the idea for several years.
By Antonia Blumberg
07/18/2018 06:57 pm ET
QuoteThe California Supreme Court on Wednesday decided to block a ballot initiative to split the state into three parts after the measure had gathered enough signatures to put it before the voters in November.
In a unanimous order, the six judges said they decided to remove Proposition 9 from the ballot "because significant questions have been raised regarding the proposition's validity and because we conclude that the potential harm in permitting the measure to remain on the ballot outweighs the potential harm in delaying the proposition to a future election," the Los Angeles Times reported.
The Planning and Conservation League, an environmental group based in Sacramento, filed a lawsuit in the state Supreme Court last week arguing that the measure would amount to a revision of the California Constitution. Amendments to the state constitution require two-thirds approval from both houses of the state legislature before they can go on the ballot.
The court said it would consider arguments from both sides at a future hearing before determining whether to place the measure on the ballot in 2020.
The proposition would divide California into three states: one called Northern California that would run from the Oregon border down to the San Francisco metropolitan area, a second called California that would constitute a coastal strip from south of San Francisco down to the Los Angeles metropolitan area, and a third dubbed Southern California that would include everything else from Fresno to Bakersfield to San Diego.
The measure qualified for the ballot after Bay Area billionaire Tim Draper, the main proponent and bankroller of the initiative, gathered 402,000 signatures from valid, registered voters and submitted them in April.
Draper contends that California is ungovernable due to "poorly performing schools, crumbling infrastructure and a political system controlled by powerful special interests" and that it should be divided into "three smaller, more manageable states."
This is the third time the billionaire has attempted to split up the state: He previously bankrolled efforts in 2012 and 2014 to create six separate Californias. His most recent endeavor has cost him around $5 million.
"Apparently, the insiders are in cahoots and the establishment doesn't want to find out how many people don't like the way California is being governed," Draper said in a statement to HuffPost on Wednesday. "Whether you agree or not with this initiative," he added, "this is not the way democracies are supposed to work."
Others disagreed. The Planning and Conservation League applauded the court's order.
"Proposition 9 was a costly, flawed scheme that will waste billions of California taxpayer dollars, create chaos in public services including safeguarding our environment and literally eliminate the State of California ― all to satisfy the whims of one billionaire," the group's executive director, Howard Penn, said in a statement. "It would have dismantled the world's 5th biggest economy without solving a single challenge facing Californians today."
Fabian Nuñez, a member of the opposition group OneCalifornia Committee and a former speaker of the California Assembly, said it "gives direct democracy a bad name" that the measure was put on the ballot in the first place.
"We are hopeful that Tim Draper will end his attempts to split up our state and use his resources to help California meet its challenges and become an even better place to live and work," Nuñez said.
Aww I was hoping for the Split :D Sane people in one section, Snowflakes in another and the Hollywood Idjits in the third...
Then build a huge wall around the third :P
Quote from: zorgon on July 19, 2018, 03:11:35 AM
Aww I was hoping for the Split :D Sane people in one section, Snowflakes in another and the Hollywood Idjits in the third...
Then build a huge wall around the third :P
I could definitely agree with that.
Quote from: zorgon on July 19, 2018, 03:11:35 AM
Aww I was hoping for the Split :D Sane people in one section, Snowflakes in another and the Hollywood Idjits in the third...
Then build a huge wall around the third :P
As much as you and I might wish it otherwise at times, we're not in the Middle Ages any more, Zorgon. We have both manned aircraft and unmanned flying drones, now. Walls are therefore not capable of achieving as much as they used to. ;)
As for the academic snowflakes; Berkeley produced BSD UNIX, so I know they were sane once. I wish I understood what had happened in the last thirty years. The poor Regents have probably been trying to figure it out themselves.
The powers that be and our system would and will never let this happen. My country is so messed up and so is the governing representatives. We are fortunate to still be free. I am for secure borders and for immigrants coming over to go through the process to come into the country. I think they could streamline the process to become a citizen. California should be dropped into the ocean with all its government that does not really care for their citizens. Just my crazy raw opinion.
Quote from: spacemaverick on July 20, 2018, 10:23:50 PM
The powers that be and our system would and will never let this happen. My country is so messed up and so is the governing representatives.
Mav, I couldn't agree with you more; but we have to keep our heads up and keep pushing for what we desire; hope springs eternal and it is encouraging to see younglings leaving the Dem Party
QuoteWe are fortunate to still be free.
That is something we shall have to continue to fight for 8)
QuoteI am for secure borders and for immigrants coming over to go through the process to come into the country. I think they could streamline the process to become a citizen.
They could, but sometimes it is worth the wait, let's make sure they are desireable first; the wholesale stampede that the previous administration unleashed needs to never happen again...
QuoteCalifornia should be dropped into the ocean with all its government that does not really care for their citizens. Just my crazy raw opinion.
Now Mav, that would be a terrible thing to do to all the sea life ::) Go ahead and divide it up, wall it out, and wait for the next big quake to shake it to pieces; they could ship what's left to Fukashima and use it to fight the meltdown :P
Seeker, sometimes I must guard against going too far down the rabbit hole. I have to step away into some music or comedy for a while to create a balance. The battles going on now are much more visible and intense before. The attitude of about 50% of our people is going opposite of conservative. Some go along to get along, some just want to live their life. Something within me drives me and I don't know what it is.
Quote from: petrus4 on July 20, 2018, 10:52:55 AM
As much as you and I might wish it otherwise at times, we're not in the Middle Ages any more, Zorgon. We have both manned aircraft and unmanned flying drones, now. Walls are therefore not capable of achieving as much as they used to. ;
Well dang it we need to bring it back In those Goode Olde Dayes :P if you were unhappy with the leader you got together a group, stormed the Castle and took the crown :P And if you did good, you would live a full life :D
QuoteAs for the academic snowflakes; Berkeley produced BSD UNIX, so I know they were sane once. I wish I understood what had happened in the last thirty years. The poor Regents have probably been trying to figure it out themselves.
The SCA (Society for Creative Anachronisms) was created in Berkely so yeah Once Upon a tyme... they were sane The SCA is STILL sane,,, we never even mention Poly Ticks at events (unless it's who will win the Crown this year :P )
So something happened and yes the teachers are the ring leaders I have seen many protests where the teachers are the ones leading the cause Like the one protest where they were all wearing Che Guevara T-shirts and when asked why these teachers said "oh he represents revolutionaries"
Something happened don't know what Some blame the fluoride :P
Quote from: spacemaverick on July 20, 2018, 10:23:50 PMCalifornia should be dropped into the ocean with all its government that does not really care for their citizens. Just my crazy raw opinion.
Welll... I am told that a few well placed nukes along the San Andrea fault and that would happen :P And it would only drop that section with the main problem people :P leaving the food belt intact :D
We got any contact? Maybe we can get those nukes from Kim Jung Un at a bargain price :P seeing as he has no use for them :P
Quote from: The Seeker on July 20, 2018, 11:56:35 PM
Now Mav, that would be a terrible thing to do to all the sea life ::)
No no it's okay really Sharks need to eat too They been snacking on surfers anyway :P
We must take care of the sea life that Fukushima didn't kill.
Quote from: petrus4 on July 20, 2018, 10:52:55 AM
As for the academic snowflakes; Berkeley produced BSD UNIX, so I know they were sane once.
It's a different kind of sane.
Besides that, organisations are what the people there at the moment are, when the people change the organisation changes.
Quote from: zorgon on July 21, 2018, 04:12:44 AM
Welll... I am told that a few well placed nukes along the San Andrea fault and that would happen :P And it would only drop that section with the main problem people :P leaving the food belt intact :D
We got any contact? Maybe we can get those nukes from Kim Jung Un at a bargain price :P seeing as he has no use for them :P
Would that finally reveal all the underground water routes for the secret submarines? ::)
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on July 21, 2018, 01:42:57 PM
Would that finally reveal all the underground water routes for the secret submarines? ::)
Th entrance for submarines at Monterey Bay?
Quote from: zorgon on July 21, 2018, 04:09:16 AM
Something happened don't know what Some blame the fluoride :P
a} Daycare; essentially a scenario where children are put into the human equivalent of a factory farm, while they are still far too developmentally immature for such things. There is a time when seperation from imprinted parents
should happen, yes; but not while you're still a toddler. This is the main cause of the likes of Trigglypuff and the social justice warriors; the fact that most of them had parents who just plain didn't give a shit, and who saw them as an inconvenience to be handed off to someone else at any possible opportunity. I can guarantee you that you won't find a single transgendered person in particular, who did not have this kind of issue developmentally.
b} Collective, formal education, which was specifically designed and intended to really act as penal reform, rather than to educate. There is a deliberate attempt to destroy personal initiative, the desire to learn, creativity, and the general belief that literally action can or should be taken, without the blessing of an "expert," or some form of centralised, psychopathic authority. The primary objective of the school system is to force an individual to psychologically accept the fact that the psychopaths are in charge, and also to force said individual to accept the permanent position in life which said psychopaths consider appropriate for them.
There is no single human institution that needs to be more urgently or completely obliterated than state education. Dystopia begins in the classroom. Without making another explicit attempt to compete in the Victimhood Olympics, I will simply say that I consider my time within said education system, to be the primary cause of my customary lack of mental health.
c} Trophies for participation, or other situations/events in which an individual is given praise which is completely disproportional to the level of real achievement involved. While some aspects of the education system cause psychopathology via negative reinforcement, it is equally possible for inappropriate positive reinforcement to have bad effects. I know from direct personal experience, that extended immersion in computer games in which the player is depicted as heroic and the center of the universe, (especially when received in conjunction with the aforementioned psychological brutalisation of the education system) is a recipe for chronic, delusional narcissism. I am not an eight foot tall, sixteenth century Orcish mercenary in real life; but then again, perhaps I should try and adhere to that fantasy a little more than I did a decade ago, because if nothing else, it at least gave me more courage.
Quote from: petrus4 on July 21, 2018, 02:31:30 PM
a} Daycare; essentially a scenario where children are put into the human equivalent of a factory farm, while they are still far too developmentally immature for such things. There is a time when seperation from imprinted parents should happen, yes; but not while you're still a toddler. This is the main cause of the likes of Trigglypuff and the social justice warriors; the fact that most of them had parents who just plain didn't give a shit, and who saw them as an inconvenience to be handed off to someone else at any possible opportunity. I can guarantee you that you won't find a single transgendered person in particular, who did not have this kind of issue developmentally.
Generalisations should be avoided, and this looks like an excellent example of that. I know dozens of men and women that were in daycare and did not turn into social justice warriors.
QuoteThere is no single human institution that needs to be more urgently or completely obliterated than state education. Dystopia begins in the classroom.
Same as above. I, like some 80% of the Portuguese population, am a result of state education and do not exhibit any of those traces.
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on July 21, 2018, 01:42:57 PM
Would that finally reveal all the underground water routes for the secret submarines? ::)
or seal them off :P
Quote from: ArMaP on July 21, 2018, 05:03:44 PM
Same as above. I, like some 80% of the Portuguese population, am a result of state education and do not exhibit any of those traces.
That explains a lot :P
::)
Quote from: spacemaverick on July 21, 2018, 06:15:20 AM
We must take care of the sea life that Fukushima didn't kill.
Kind of late for that. Cesium-137 is in California wines. If it's in the grapes, which are on land, then it's certainly in the fish, who've been directly exposed to it.
Quote from: zorgon on July 21, 2018, 04:09:16 AM
Something happened don't know what Some blame the fluoride :P
It began when we failed to control the hippies.
Quote from: Irene on July 22, 2018, 03:16:36 PM
It began when we failed to control the hippies.
Yep. No matter what the problem is, the cure is always simple. We always need less freedom.
Quote from: petrus4 on July 23, 2018, 10:19:11 AM
Yep. No matter what the problem is, the cure is always simple. We always need less freedom.
Well you know the Olde Saying.... "Idle hands are the devil's workshop"
:P
::)
Quote from: zorgon on July 23, 2018, 10:26:12 AM
Well you know the Olde Saying.... "Idle hands are the devil's workshop"
:P
::)
I've personally observed a lot more evil being committed by those who are determined to ensure that others are not idle, than I have by those who were idle themselves. Indolence is not our biggest problem; a much larger problem is caused by a combination of greed, and authoritarians who are incapable of tolerating the idea that anyone else might be less miserable than they are themselves.
Quote from: petrus4 on July 23, 2018, 10:19:11 AM
Yep. No matter what the problem is, the cure is always simple. We always need less freedom.
Bah.
We failed to instill and compel enough discipline in the hippies. If they'd controlled their behavior, acted respectfully, we wouldn't be where we are now.
Quote from: Irene on July 23, 2018, 12:02:42 PM
We failed to instill and compel enough discipline in the hippies. If they'd controlled their behavior, acted respectfully, we wouldn't be where we are now.
I've seen humanity oscillate between the two extremes of "discipline" and "respect" (read: fascism) on the one hand, and complete, spineless decadence on the other, to have been convinced that neither of those two conditions are the answer, Irene. I've been among hippies on a first hand basis, and their lifestyle does have its' disadvantages, to be sure; but I've also seen authoritarianism cause just as much harm, if not more. The police and the hippies were contrasted side by side in Nimbin, and neither looked appealing as a result of the comparison.
The problem with advocacy of authoritarianism, I've noticed, is that it invites massive oversimplification, and also tends to believe in forms of retributive justice, which can work on a short to immediate term basis, but which generally does not solve the underlying problems which cause aberrant behaviour in the first place.
The Buddha and Confucius both talked about the middle way.
Quote from: petrus4 on July 23, 2018, 02:13:15 PM
I've seen humanity oscillate between the two extremes of "discipline" and "respect" (read: fascism) on the one hand, and complete, spineless decadence on the other, to have been convinced that neither of those two conditions are the answer, Irene. I've been among hippies on a first hand basis, and their lifestyle does have its' disadvantages, to be sure; but I've also seen authoritarianism cause just as much harm, if not more. The police and the hippies were contrasted side by side in Nimbin, and neither looked appealing as a result of the comparison.
The problem with advocacy of authoritarianism, I've noticed, is that it invites massive oversimplification, and also tends to believe in forms of retributive justice, which can work on a short to immediate term basis, but which generally does not solve the underlying problems which cause aberrant behaviour in the first place.
The Buddha and Confucius both talked about the middle way.
Listen, I behave in a civilized manner in public. I expect the same from other people. This is not an unreasonable expectation.
Now we hear that people cannot wear a hat supporting a legally elected President, who is keeping every one of his campaign promises, without being assaulted by the heirs of hippiedom. (People are sh*tting in the streets of San Francisco.) Antifa is advocating violence against the Right and, in some cases, have followed through on it. Blatant lies are disseminated in the media.
The President's press secretary needs Secret Service protection and she is
personally attacked, as is the President and his family including his minor son. Whoopi Not-at-All Funny Goldberg attacks a judge for expressing her opinion in a country which is Number 1 in the world for free speech.
Moderation isn't the answer to these problems. Moderation is
why we have this problem. Moderation has produced two recent generations of deluded sociopaths, marinated in Socialist dogma.
"Houston, we have a problem."
Moderation? No. I live a civilized life, respecting those around me within reason. I want civilized behavior in return. Whatever it takes to achieve that, I want it done.
* Apologies for formatting.
Quote from: Irene on July 23, 2018, 05:43:03 PM
Now we hear that people cannot wear a hat supporting a legally elected President, who is keeping every one of his campaign promises, without being assaulted by the heirs of hippiedom. (People are sh*tting in the streets of San Francisco.) Antifa is advocating violence against the Right and, in some cases, have followed through on it. Blatant lies are disseminated in the media.
I agree that antifa are a problem. I was initially sympathetic towards Occupy Wall Street, but not once I found out certain things about it.
I think it's pretty much inevitable that America as it used to exist, is headed down the toilet at this point. The Millennials have no living memory of authoritarianism; they don't know what it is that they are trying to bring into existence.
You need to find out who is behind antifa. The Left by themselves have no real ability to co-ordinate; OWS and the earlier demonstrations were very unorganised. You need to learn who is organising them, who is giving them their orders, and who is giving them money. Someone is putting them up to it. If you can find who that person is, and remove their ability to command them as a group, (and no, I'm not advocating murder, here; incarceration can often be enough) then you can shut down the group as a whole without the kids involved being harmed.
They are sheep. Find the shepherds, and you'll break the flock.
Here is a good place to start ::)
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10004/26229701_1241647179301231_5484298683016952175_n.jpg)
The millenials and the snowflakes seeking that "Communist Utopia" need to go live as an immigrant in China for a few years
::)
Quote from: Irene on July 23, 2018, 05:43:03 PM
Moderation isn't the answer to these problems. Moderation is why we have this problem. Moderation has produced two recent generations of deluded sociopaths, marinated in Socialist dogma.
Moderation in what?
Quote from: The Seeker on July 23, 2018, 08:36:08 PM
Here is a good place to start ::)
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10004/26229701_1241647179301231_5484298683016952175_n.jpg)
Can you find that supposed Newsweek article?
Quote from: The Seeker on July 23, 2018, 08:36:08 PM
The millenials and the snowflakes seeking that "Communist Utopia" need to go live as an immigrant in China for a few years
It's just the attitude that the other side are the enemy and simply need to be destroyed, that is really scary. I've seen it among both the Left and the Right on 4chan. I've also seen decent conservatives and libertarians on YouTube who are worried about what is coming, and I don't blame them. I am trying not to take sides, because I honestly don't think that either side are exclusively good or evil.
I can remember reading claims that at Charlottesville, the people from opposite political sides were supposedly brought to the event in the same bus. It reminds me of the degree of rivalry which existed between Hitler and the Communists in Germany; the theory went that he actually arranged that whole thing, in order to put pressure on the democratic system that had previously existed there.
Do any of you remember the Star Wars prequels? Palpatine was basically depicted doing the same thing there with the clones and the seperatists. He started both sides, but made it so that only the top most people in each faction reported directly to him; everyone thought that the factional divide was genuine, but in fact it was a ruse the whole time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEOn_1wQJ5k
I think that's what happened domestically in Germany, and I also think it's happening in America now.
That nasty hag, Maxine Waters, is telling her followers to drive those who support Trump out of public spaces, restaurants, stores, etc.
No one on the Right has ever done that. Never.
There is an ugliness rising from the Left that rivals Nazi Germany in the early days.
It isn't coming from the Right. We are what we always have been. We may be rednecks and gun owners and blue collar, but we're not driving our enemies before us and talking about doing them violence.
This isn't "Star Wars". It's hysteria on a mass scale from the Left.
Edit to add, Seeker is right. I believe Soros is the source of funding for Antifa. Trump should be investigating his finances.
Quote from: Irene on July 23, 2018, 11:13:08 PM
This isn't "Star Wars". It's hysteria on a mass scale from the Left.
Edit to add, Seeker is right. I believe Soros is the source of funding for Antifa. Trump should be investigating his finances.
It might be Soros; but in my observation of these things, if we think it is someone whose name is already known, then it probably isn't. People who engage in this sort of thing generally don't like visibility.
Either way, look for who will ultimately benefit, because it won't be the people in the black masks themselves.
Quote from: petrus4 on July 24, 2018, 04:26:09 PM
It might be Soros; but in my observation of these things, if we think it is someone whose name is already known, then it probably isn't. People who engage in this sort of thing generally don't like visibility.
Either way, look for who will ultimately benefit, because it won't be the people in the black masks themselves.
Just my 2 cents. I think both of you are correct. Soros me the front man taking the heat, (somewhat) but a small group of ultra-rich are behind the scenes pulling the strings.
Quote from: petrus4 on July 24, 2018, 04:26:09 PM
It might be Soros; but in my observation of these things, if we think it is someone whose name is already known, then it probably isn't. People who engage in this sort of thing generally don't like visibility.
Either way, look for who will ultimately benefit, because it won't be the people in the black masks themselves.
Agreed. That's pretty much been confirmed by none other than the likes of David Rockefeller.
Remember how his grandfather escaped vilification. He became a philanthropist. It allowed him to maintain the appearance of a good man while financing his personal "interests" under the guise of charity.
Quote from: Irene on July 24, 2018, 06:13:37 PM
Remember how his grandfather escaped vilification. He became a philanthropist. It allowed him to maintain the appearance of a good man while financing his personal "interests" under the guise of charity.
That's how they always do it.
It would help if more conservatives were willing to acknowledge the fact that if (as I suspect it may) humanity becomes extinct within the next two generations, entrepreneurial Capitalism genuinely will be primarily responsible. Communism is one of the most devious and malevolent ideologies that has ever existed, and I don't deny that; but there is a legitimate reason why it remains so popular, and contrary to the easy, reflexive answer, said reason is not purely an aversion to work. If the popularity of Communism was exclusively due to laziness, then the Space Race never would have been an issue.
Neither of these ideologies are going to allow us to survive, long term. We need something else. I don't know what that something else is. My motivation to look for it was what led me to exploring both Permaculture and the Venus Project. Non-corporate Agorism does have some genuine potential, but the Venus Project sadly turned out to be little more than Communism with a transhumanist coat of paint.