https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/china-lands-spacecraft-on-dark-side-of-moon-in-world-first/ar-BBRJVAr?li=BBnb7Kz
China lands spacecraft on 'dark' side of moon in world first2 hrs ago
QuoteBEIJING — China's burgeoning space program achieved a first on Thursday: a landing on the so-called dark side of the moon that brings the country closer to its goal of becoming a space power.
Three nations — the United States, the former Soviet Union and more recently China — have sent spacecraft to the near side of the moon, which faces Earth, but this landing is the first-ever on the far side.
The China National Space Administration said the 10:26 a.m. touchdown of the Chang'e 4 craft has "opened up a new chapter in human lunar exploration."
A photo taken at 11:40 a.m. and sent back by Chang'e 4 shows a small crater and a barren surface that appears to be illuminated by a light from the lunar explorer. Its name comes from that of a Chinese goddess who, according to legend, has lived on the moon for millennia.
The landing highlights China's growing ambitions to rival the U.S., Russia and Europe in space, and more broadly, to cement the nation's position as a regional and global power.
"The space dream is part of the dream to make China stronger," President Xi Jinping said in 2013, shortly after becoming China's leader.
(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBRKS85.img?h=416&w=624&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f&x=462&y=309)
1/5 SLIDES © The Associated Press
In this photo provided Jan. 3, 2019, by China National Space Administration via Xinhua News Agency, the first image of the moon's far side taken by China's Chang'e-4 probe. A Chinese spacecraft on Thursday, Jan. 3, made the first-ever landing on the far side of the moon, state media said. The lunar explorer Chang'e 4 touched down at 10:26 a.m., China Central Television said in a brief announcement at the top of its noon news broadcast.(China National Space Administration/Xinhua News Agency via AP)
In year-end wrap-ups, Chinese media and officials hailed the Dec. 8 launch of Chang'e 4 as one of the nation's major achievements in 2018. The landing on Thursday was announced to the public by state broadcaster CCTV at the top of the noon news.
"On the whole, China's space technology still lags behind the West, but with the landing on the far side of the moon, we have raced to the front," said Hou Xiyun, a professor at Nanjing University's school of astronomy and space science.
He added that China has Mars, Jupiter and asteroids in its sights: "There's no doubt that our nation will go farther and farther."
In 2013, Chang'e 3, the predecessor craft to the current mission, made the first moon landing since the former Soviet Union's Luna 24 in 1976. The United States is the only country that has successfully sent a person to the moon, though China is considering a crewed mission too.
For now, it plans to send a Chang'e 5 probe to the moon next year and have it return to Earth with samples — also not done since the Soviet mission in 1976.
The moon's far side isn't always dark but is sometimes called the dark side because it faces away from Earth and is relatively unknown. It has a different composition than the near side, where previous missions have landed.
Chang'e 4, a combined lander and rover, will make astronomical observations and probe the structure and mineral composition of the terrain above and below the surface.
"The far side of the moon is a rare quiet place that is free from interference from radio signals from Earth," mission spokesman Yu Guobin said, according to the official Xinhua News Agency. "This probe can fill the gap of low-frequency observation in radio astronomy and will provide important information for studying the origin of stars and nebula evolution."
One challenge of operating on the far side of the moon is communicating with Earth. China launched a relay satellite in May so that Chang'e 4 can send back information.
China conducted its first crewed space mission in 2003, becoming only the third country to do so after Russia and the U.S. It has put a pair of space stations into orbit and plans to launch a Mars rover in the mid-2020s. Its space program suffered a rare setback last year with the failed launch of its Long March 5 rocket.
Wu Weiren, the chief designer of the China Lunar Exploration Project, called the landing a trailblazing milestone.
"Building a space power is a dream that we persistently pursue," he said in an interview with CCTV at the Beijing Aerospace Flight and Control Center. "And we're gradually realizing it."
Associated Press writer Yanan Wang and researcher Shanshan Wang contributed to this story.
Isn't the the world still legitimately waiting for another nation to photograph the apollo landers with their own lunar orbiter?
No other nation has photographed the apollo landers on the moon... oh yeah there's reflectors but that's not the issue here.
a 3d model from japan yes, a photo from anyone other than the USA, forget it.
Does anyone think the chinese are going to change that?
Quote from: Canine on January 03, 2019, 05:00:59 PM
Isn't the the world still legitimately waiting for another nation to photograph the apollo landers with their own lunar orbiter?
I'm not. :)
China has a Space program? Really?
ShenZhou 7 space walk was filmed under water, the bubbles were easy to see on the YT video and spotted by Chinese watchers...
Also the 'live' transmission was on a Thursday, but the launch was on Friday... China says 'oops technical error'
NORAD says: 'only thing China launched was an ISBM test on Sunday
China reveals awesome moon photo!!! Says 'we found new crater' Emily Lackdewanna from Planetary Science says "new crater is a stitching overlay error and the images are old Clementine data"
This new photo on the moon... really? where are the jagged rocks? where are the mountains? what is the diameter of the moon? LOOK at that horizon and that curve...
Does ANYONE actually believe that is a crater on the Moon?
(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBRKS85.img)
;) If I remember right....When they did there first landing there were apparent giant foot prints in the background of at least one of the pictures. (as though the landers were just small models.) With that in mind I'm going along with Zorgon.
There are pics of there first landing I mentioned here on Pegasus in another thread.
Looks like more of the same.
WhatTheHey
so what you guys are saying is that china going to the moon is
big fat fake news
sigh
Bwahahaha!! and who is going to refute them? The Yanks? Nope... The Ruskies? Nope... it took them a while to catch on, but neither of the big two can say it's faked as it will show them selves up in the process. Dont want to be digging too deep now. Those bubbles were bad enough, and I'm sure an email or two were sent explaining how to get rid of them, and how to use a zero-G plane more effectively, all be it, for small sessions. Lots of transitions.
... but I still really want to believe we went there... sigh.
Quote from: space otter on January 04, 2019, 02:30:34 AM
so what you guys are saying is that china going to the moon is
big fat fake news
sigh
It appears so yes...
Rememmer the japanese "Hi Res video' of the moon fly over? It looked like a plaster of paris model and the most important issue, not counting the fact that there were no recognizable features in the film, was the SHADOWS...
The Japanese craft orbited from pole to pole... so with the sun behind it the shadow at 'noon' as the craft crossed the equator should be ZERO and as the craft moved over the pole into the dark the shadows would get very long... however the shadows showed no change at all as the craft flew over the surface...
It is detail like that we need to look at
Chang'E 3 Surface of the Moon
(https://i.imgur.com/JUrT38h.jpg)
Lunar surface / Image courtesy of Chinese Academy of Sciences / China National Space Administration / The Science and Application Center for Moon and Deepspace Exploration / Emily Lakdawalla
(https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/moon-color-photos-change-3-lander-yutu-rover-camera-011.jpg)
Yutu rover tracks / Image courtesy of Chinese Academy of Sciences / China National Space Administration / The Science and Application Center for Moon and Deepspace Exploration / Emily Lakdawalla
(https://beta.techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/yutu-lander-emily-lakdawalla.gif)
Yutu Rover / Image Courtesy of Chinese Academy of Sciences / China National Space Administration / The Science and Application Center for Moon and Deepspace Exploration / Emily Lakdawalla
(https://techcrunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/change-lunar-lander.jpg)
https://techcrunch.com/2016/01/30/china-just-released-true-color-hd-photos-of-the-moon/
Dumb question coming up...
The Chinese have landed on the dark side of the moon - why are there no stars apparent in their images ?
Say whuut?? :o ::) :)
Seriously?? pmsl @ this.
Things that make you go Hhhhhmmmm....
Cheers,
Fans'
Nasa has said in the past that the reason the moon pictures don't show the stars in the back ground is because of the high exposure in the foreground. (The brightness.) Does this apply to them as well?
Perhaps its true...... perhaps its not! With all the hype given to us from most all sides,,,,,, WHO KNOWS!
Gona have to go there and check it out one day! ;D Seems to be getting so the only way to really know if what your told is true or not, is to check it yourself. That gets hard to do with so much going on.....lol
WhatTheHey
Quote from: WhatTheHey on January 04, 2019, 06:53:01 PM
Gona have to go there and check it out one day! ;D Seems to be getting so the only way to really know if what your told is true or not, is to check it yourself. That gets hard to do with so much going on.....lol
WhatTheHey
I have to agree, boots on the ground are a lot more reliable than bullshit on the 'net, especially when the source is the Mostly Shit Network 8)
Just a sign of these chaotic times we live in, whatthehay, so pop over and talk to Elon Musk, he might ferry you up there when his Dragon X goes there...
ahhhh ..but ..they are showing pictures..just like we did..
why does everyone want to lie about being there....sigh
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46760729
Chang'e-4: Chinese rover now exploring Moon
By Paul Rincon
Science editor, BBC News website
8 hours ago
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/950/cpsprodpb/5BFA/production/_105064532_mediaitem105064528.jpg)
An image of the rover rolling off the lander
QuoteA Chinese robotic rover has got its wheels dirty after rolling off its landing craft and onto the lunar soil.
The Chang'e-4 spacecraft touched down on the far side of the Moon at 10:26 Beijing time (02:26 GMT) on Thursday.
Lunar exploration chief Wu Weiren echoed Neil Armstrong's famous quote, telling state media the event marked a "huge stride" for China.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/health/china-lunar-rover-far-moon-landing-intl/index.html
China lunar rover touches down on far side of the moon, state media announce
By Matt Rivers, Helen Regan and Steven Jiang, CNN
Updated 1:49 AM ET, Fri January 4, 2019
vid at link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug5-TQ6lpeg
ahhhhhhh can't believe anything on line or tv anymore..what will we do
maybe think for ourselves ? nah too random
Quote from: zorgon on January 04, 2019, 09:31:25 AM
The Japanese craft orbited from pole to pole... so with the sun behind it the shadow at 'noon' as the craft crossed the equator should be ZERO and as the craft moved over the pole into the dark the shadows would get very long... however the shadows showed no change at all as the craft flew over the surface...
It did show change in the shadows.
Quote from: fansongecho on January 04, 2019, 12:02:34 PM
Dumb question coming up...
The Chinese have landed on the dark side of the moon - why are there no stars apparent in their images ?
For the same reason there are no stars in the other photos taken on the Moon's surface, due to the brightness of the scene (bright Sun, no clouds and no noticeable atmosphere to block any light), any small, less bright point of light will be too weak to appear on the photos.
You can try it for yourself during the next full Moon, try to take a photo of the Moon and the stars around it: you will get either a nice Moon and no stars or stars and over exposed (too bright) Moon.
Thanks ArMaP, but I don't buy the explanation, no disrespect to yourself.
Also that image of the lander, how is it they always land on a surface perfectly??. its the dark side of the moon, what technology did they use to provide accurate data, that would ensure the lander craft landed on an even and mostly flat terrain, also, how did the lander descend?? and what mechanism was used to ensure that the lander alighted on the surface with minimum damage when contacting the moons surface ?
I am sorry buddy, but I remain to be convinced.
Cheers,
Fans'
Quote from: space otter on January 04, 2019, 11:12:37 PM
ahhhh ..but ..they are showing pictures..just like we did..
QUESTION (for all)When Apollo went behind the Moon there was transmission blackout...
How is the Chinese lander sending photos from the back side of the moon?
::)
Quotewhy does everyone want to lie about being there....sigh
The same reason they created fake fireworks for the Olympics and replaced the actual singer with one that looked pretty...
It's what China does best LOL
Beijing Olympic 2008 opening ceremony giant firework footprints 'faked' (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/2534499/Beijing-Olympic-2008-opening-ceremony-giant-firework-footprints-faked.html)
Olympics: Child singer revealed as fake (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/aug/12/olympics2008.china1)
Quote from: ArMaP on January 05, 2019, 12:43:53 AM
It did show change in the shadows.
Did NOT :P and it was a model with no recognizable features :P
Prove me wrong :P
Quote from: fansongecho on January 04, 2019, 12:02:34 PM
The Chinese have landed on the dark side of the moon - why are there no stars apparent in their images ?
Because it is hard to add in fake stars. :P Astronomers would spot the difference
::)
So NASA SAYS:If you could turn off the atmosphere's ability to scatter overwhelming sunlight, today's daytime sky might look something like this ... with the Sun surrounded by the stars of the constellations Taurus and Gemini.
(https://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/Stars/solsticesun_lodriguss.jpg)
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap070621.html
ArMaP Says:For the same reason there are no stars in the other photos taken on the Moon's surface, due to the brightness of the scene (bright Sun, no clouds and no noticeable atmosphere to block any light), any small, less bright point of light will be too weak to appear on the photos.
Zorgon says:IF that was true how are we able to get VENUS into a photo before sunset with the moon in the same photo? There are MANY bright stars and planets that easily show up in photos and would do so on the moon as they are even brighter. Below is Venus just below the moon at sunset...
(https://img-aws.ehowcdn.com/877x500p/photos.demandstudios.com/getty/article/117/136/78494333.jpg)
Quote from: space otter on January 04, 2019, 11:12:37 PM
ahhhh ..but ..they are showing pictures..just like we did..
Pictures you say? Oh because pictures are proof?
Hmmm
Like THIS Picture? No stars in the sky either but a marvelous Earth... At least THESE hills are a little more Jagged like Lunar Orbiter photos show
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Nxad0yR-CKc/UEd6eopqCqI/AAAAAAAACq0/t0IgAqZrDgw/s1600/Diamonds+Are+Forever+Moon+Set.PNG)
I guess James Bond is proving that the moon does have atmosphere like John Lear says it does, eh?
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BUWbM_pkoIM/Wki_E0DOx0I/AAAAAAAAsxI/nvllA_enE8QAur_qmY0E9lpK09NA2IkGACK4BGAYYCw/s1600/f0403-bond-1971.png)
Now then what about THIS picture?
Can anyone tell me where this is taken?
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/od91pJCMHkE/maxresdefault.jpg)
no can't tell ya where it was taken but can tell ya where to find it
bwhahahahahah..gotta luv it
Best guess for this image: apollo 17 lem on moon
Pages that include matching images
Web results
The Space Review: Preview: Magnificent Desolation
www.thespacereview.com/article/419/1
400 × 272 - Aug 1, 2005 - Magnificent Desolation: Walking on the Moon 3D doesn't open until this ... where a series of footprints leads to the lunar module for Apollo 17.
Apollo Reality - The Living Moon
www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=455.15
640 × 422 - Reply #15 on: December 17, 2011, 02:34:23 AM » ... In all, some 700 boxes of transmissions from the Apollo lunar missions are missing, he said. ..... could have been used for moving the LEM and we saw the huge moon props at Langley that ...
The area where the probe has landed faces away from Earth, meaning it is free from radio frequencies. As a result, it is not possible for a lunar rover to communicate directly with ground control. To overcome this hurdle, China launched a dedicated satellite orbiting the moon last year that will be able to relay information from the rover to Earth.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/02/health/china-lunar-rover-far-moon-landing-intl/index.html
This is how they say they are communicating with the rover.
Quote from: space otter on January 05, 2019, 04:44:32 AM
no can't tell ya where it was taken but can tell ya where to find it
bwhahahahahah..gotta luv it
That link to thelivingmoon TELLS YOU where :P
But I can tell you :P
It was taken in BUILDING 9 at LANGLEY... but that photo was taken in 2004. They used the SAME BUILDING at Langley that was used for the original landings... because the Moon props were still there :P
THIS is what it looks like before adding the hills and black sky. THIS is why there are no stars, because it is IMPOSSIBLE to fake the real stars and get the angle and placement right in the sky from the lunar surface perspective...
(http://agraphafx.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/mag_04_01_R_source_1k.jpg)
Here is how it was done
Quote from: micjer on January 05, 2019, 04:48:35 AM
This is how they say they are communicating with the rover.
great You get the hero cookie :D
Now then can you provide us LAUNCH DETAILS of the communication satellite they sent up with the Lander?
Thanks in advance :D
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/2018/20180615-queqiao-orbit-explainer.html
Luyuan Xu • June 15, 2018
How China's lunar relay satellite arrived in its final orbit
After a 24-day journey, Queqiao, the relay satellite for China's Chang'e 4 lunar mission, successfully entered its Earth-Moon L2 halo orbit. A normal mission to lunar orbit usually takes four or five days, but Queqiao took much longer due to its special orbit. Here's a guide to the spacecraft's long and complicated journey.
...
After launch on May 21 at 5:28 a.m. Beijing time (21:28 UTC May 20), Queqiao was directly sent into an Earth-Moon transfer orbit without an Earth parking orbit phase. There are two kinds of transfer orbits from Earth to the vicinity of Earth-Moon L2. One is direct transfer, which is directly from Earth (or Earth parking orbit) to L2.
lots of diagrams at link...............................
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/2018/0519-change-4-relay-satellite.html
Luyuan Xu • May 19, 2018
C
Quotehang'e 4 relay satellite, Queqiao: A bridge between Earth and the mysterious lunar farside
China's fourth lunar mission, Chang'e 4, is expected to begin on May 21 with the launch of a Long March 4C rocket from the Xichang Satellite Launch Centre in the southwest of China. The launch will carry a spacecraft named Queqiao, which will serve as a communication relay satellite between Earth and the lunar farside. The name Queqiao means "magpie bridge" in Chinese and comes from a Chinese folk tale, a love story about a flock of magpies that form a bridge crossing the Milky Way once a year to reunite lovers known as the Cowherd and the Weaver Girl, as well as their children.
How to pronounce Queqiao and Longjian
Chang'e 4 is planned to send both a lander and a rover to explore the far side of the Moon. If successful, Chang'e 4 will be the first-ever soft-landing mission on the lunar farside. However, huge technical challenges exist. Since the lunar farside always faces away from the Earth, direct communication between any farside in-situ explorers and the Earth is blocked.
This is because the Moon is a synchronously rotating satellite of our planet Earth, which means it rotates exactly once for each time it circles Earth. The match of spin and orbit means the moon is rotationally locked to the Earth, so we can only directly see one hemisphere of the moon (aka, the nearside) from the Earth. (Because the Moon's orbit is slightly elliptical, we actually get to peek slightly over the east and west edges of the Moon every orbit, but most of the farside remains mysterious.) Synchronous rotation is nothing unique between Earth and the Moon. Nearly all the regular satellites of the outer solar system planets, and even some exoplanets are in synchronous rotation states with their parental planet or star.
How do we have any data on the lunar farside? Orbiters circling the Moon gather data autonomously and send data back when they're in view of Earth. Humans first saw the lunar farside through a camera on the Soviet Luna 3 spacecraft in 1959. However, important scientific measurements for the lunar farside that require real-time contact with the Earth cannot be conducted directly. For example, gravity measurements by Doppler tracking, communication between a lander/rover and the Earth, Lunar Laser Ranging (LLR) measurements, and other experiments aren't possible over the farside. The first direct gravity measurement for the lunar farside was not conducted until 2007, when Japan's Kaguya m ission used a 4-way relay satellite for Doppler tracking. To enable communication from the future first lander and rover on the lunar farside, we will need a communication bridge, Queqiao.
The Queqiao satellite is 425 kilograms in weight and has a planned lifetime of more than 5 years. Both the solar panels and lithium batteries provide its energy. It will perform relay communication using a 4.2-meter diameter umbrella antenna, talking with the lander/rover at X-band and communicate with the Earth ground station at S-band frequencies. Meanwhile, the lander will also receive UHF transmissions from the rover, decode them, and send the decoded data on to the relay satellite.
Quote from: space otter on January 05, 2019, 05:11:11 AM
After a 24-day journey, Queqiao, the relay satellite for China's Chang'e 4 lunar mission, successfully entered its Earth-Moon L2 halo orbit.
Seems China is now highly advanced in the space business to be able to achieve a HALO ORBIT and maintain it for over a year (considering that the craft would need to have the ability to make orbital adjustments (station keeping))
A halo orbit is a periodic, three-dimensional orbit near the L1, L2 or L3 Lagrange points in the three-body problem of orbital mechanics. Although the Lagrange point is just a point in empty space, its peculiar characteristic is that it can be orbited. Halo orbits can be thought of as resulting from an interaction between the gravitational pull of the two planetary bodies and the Coriolis and centrifugal accelerations on a spacecraft. Halo orbits exist in any three-body system, e.g. the Sun–Earth–Orbiting Satellite system and the Earth–Moon–Orbiting Satellite system. Continuous "families" of both Northern and Southern halo orbits exist at each Lagrange point. Because halo orbits tend to be unstable, stationkeeping is required to keep a satellite on the orbit.
Most satellites in halo orbit serve scientific purposes, for example as space telescopes.
Quote from: zorgon on January 05, 2019, 03:55:47 AM
QUESTION (for all)
When Apollo went behind the Moon there was transmission blackout...
How is the Chinese lander sending photos from the back side of the moon?
::)
That is the first thing I thought as well Unless they positioned a satellite in a orbital lock high above the backside of the moon would be the only way the transmission would go through the moon is huge people don't seem to understand the size of the moon.
The photos look fake as the old NASA images. I have a problem with all these images you can so easily see the lunar terminator which appears to be about maybe a mile away at the most that would make the moon about 1/20th of its real size.
What are they hiding from us? this maybe ? :o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=34&v=9WoM2bHfr48 :o
https://youtu.be/9WoM2bHfr48
I would be more impressed if they landed in the Sea of Tranquility and motored over to the Apollo 11 landing site, just to say Hello! ::)
I'm surprised the biosphere they sent isn't getting much air-time. It's probably the neatest aspect of the mission.
I'm rooting for the little guys:
QuoteLunar Micro Ecosystem,[46] is a 3 kg (6.6 lb) sealed "biosphere" cylinder 18 cm long and 16 cm in diameter with seeds and insect eggs to test whether plants and insects could hatch and grow together in synergy.[13][42] The experiment includes seeds of potatoes, tomatoes, and Arabidopsis thaliana (a flowering plant), as well as silkworm eggs. Environmental systems will keep the container hospitable and Earth-like, except for the low lunar gravity.[47] If the eggs hatch, the larvae would produce carbon dioxide, while the germinated plants would release oxygen through photosynthesis. It is hoped that together, the plants and silkworms can establish a simple synergy within the container.[13] A miniature camera will photograph any growth. The biological experiment was designed by 28 Chinese universities.[48] Research in such closed ecological systems inform astrobiology and the development of biological life support systems for long duration missions in space stations or space habitats.[49][50][51]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27e_4
Quote from: fansongecho on January 05, 2019, 01:34:57 AM
Thanks ArMaP, but I don't buy the explanation, no disrespect to yourself.
I'm not selling it. :)
As I said, anyone with a camera can try it for themselves, just try to take a photo at night, showing an illuminated area of the ground and the stars.
For anyone that knows a little about photography the answer is obvious.
QuoteI am sorry buddy, but I remain to be convinced.
I only explained why stars do not appear on photos like that, it says nothing about the veracity of the image.
@ArMaP. I will do.
I have never had any interest in photography all though I used a number of electro-optical systems for years in the Air Force, but I was not interested in the physics of photography - I have a buddy who is a proffessional photographer, I will see if he is interested in setting up some night time experiments - ;D
I am surprised that the Chinese team havent conducted experiments where they lose all the illumination and take images of the moons sky.. I would have thought that the images would be most spectacular :) :)
Cheers!
Fans' 8)
Quote from: zorgon on January 05, 2019, 03:59:33 AM
Did NOT :P and it was a model with no recognizable features :P
Prove me wrong :P
OK, point me to an example and I will look at it.
Quote from: zorgon on January 05, 2019, 05:04:22 AM
Now then can you provide us LAUNCH DETAILS of the communication satellite they sent up with the Lander?
Is that a trick question? The communication satellite was sent up
before the lander, not with the lander.
Quote from: ArMaP on January 06, 2019, 12:16:44 AM
The communication satellite was sent up before the lander, not with the lander.
That is what we call picking Nits :P
So where are all the cool pictures of moon rocks to look at? Surely that thing is streaming hundreds?
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on January 05, 2019, 01:19:09 PM
I would be more impressed if they landed in the Sea of Tranquility and motored over to the Apollo 11 landing site, just to say Hello! ::)
I agree Sarge...[grin]
All I want is undeniable proof and that's not happening.
Quote from: zorgon on January 06, 2019, 02:05:27 AM
That is what we call picking Nits :P
That's what I call saying things as they are.
The way you wrote it there was no truthful answer to your question.
QuoteSo where are all the cool pictures of moon rocks to look at? Surely that thing is streaming hundreds?
If they exist they are most likely in China, obviously, don't you remember how long it took for the images from their previous mission to be available on the Internet?
They have a different way of looking at things, they consider the results of any Chinese accomplishment as being firstly for the Chinese people, then, and if applicable, to the rest of the world.
Quote from: spacemaverick on January 06, 2019, 04:27:15 AM
All I want is undeniable proof and that's not happening.
True, and that applies to all things we cannot see with our own eyes (and some things we can see with our own eyes), as there's always the possibility of denying something, so there's not "undeniable proof" of any thing.
you guys totally crack me up....you all believe in the ufo stuff and how advanced the military is and we have space colonies etc.
and yet
none of you believe earth humans capable of getting to the moon - on either side
what a group
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c8/5f/2d/c85f2de596c0dd1d7e85e6b3e52881e9.jpg)
I think it's all fake how convenient they are on the backside of the moon again They must have a fixes satellite for communication in Orbital lock high above the moon enough that that sat can bounce to a satellite above the earth.. The pictures are a joke. I want to see Tsiolkovsky more then anything should have flyovers in Super HD..
The moon is a titanium spaceship.
BigPappy51
@Space Otter,
I have a number of issues with NASA and its "many missions" for example the recent Mars Insight lander, at 13 seconds in to the attached YT video, the MARS Insight lander deployed its braking parachute at an altitude of 7.5 miles with a stated velocity of .. wait for it... 928 Miles Per Hour, or if you work in meters per second, 415 m/p/s - ::) :o ;D
If the parachute doesn't deploy the lander will hit the surface of mars just over 30 seconds later -
What material is the parachute made of to withstand a deployment at of 928MPH, with very little or no atmosphere, and provide sufficient braking to reduce the Insight lander to the speed of 136 MPH for its terminal descent.. which btw looks to be done with black magic, I wont say how they do it but check the first 35 seconds of the YT -
NASA Stated atmosphere as detailed below -
"SNIP"
The Atmosphere of Mars
Of all the planets, Mars is our closest relation in terms of makeup (not distance -- Venus is closer), but that's not saying much. And it certainly doesn't mean that it is hospitable.
The atmosphere of Mars differs from Earth's in many ways, and most of them don't bode well for humans living there.
It's composed mostly of carbon dioxide (95.3 percent compared to less than 1 percent on Earth).
Mars has much less nitrogen (2.7 percent compared to 78 percent on Earth).
It has very little oxygen (0.13 percent compared to 21 percent on Earth).
The red planet's atmosphere is only 0.03 percent water vapor, compared to Earth, where it makes up around 1 percent.
On average, it exerts only 6.1 millibars of surface pressure (Earth's average sea-level atmospheric pressure is 1,013.25 millibars) [source: NASA].
Because the "air" on Mars is so thin, it holds little of the heat that comes from the ground after it absorbs solar radiation. The thin air also is responsible for the wide, daily swings in temperature (almost 100 degrees Fahrenheit or 60 degrees Celsius).
Martian atmospheric pressure changes with the seasons. During the Martian summer, carbon dioxide sublimes from the polar ice caps into the atmosphere, increasing the pressure by about 2 millibars. As found by NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, during the Martian winter, carbon dioxide refreezes and falls from the atmosphere as carbon dioxide snow!
This snowfall causes the pressure to decrease again. Finally, because the Martian atmospheric pressure is so low and the average temperature is so cold, liquid water cannot exist; under these conditions, water would either freeze, evaporate into the atmosphere or, as seen by NASA's 2008 Phoenix Lander mission, fall as snow [source: NASA].
"SNIP"
See the video from Nov 2018 here ----> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBK8oo3-t9A
This is just one of the missions that I have a problem with the egg heads at NASA - it doesn't stack up.
That, and who is cleaning the camera lens of the many Mars landers and rovers?? after Mars experiences its famous dust storms, that can envelop the whole planet for days at a time. ;) ;D
https://www.universetoday.com/14892/mars-dust-storms/
I do believe there is a UAP Phenomenon, and I used to think that maybe there where UFO's, but the more I research the more it seems to me that the UFO Phenomenon is a Psy-OP.
Cheers!
Fans'
Quote from: fansongecho on January 07, 2019, 05:55:16 PM
What material is the parachute made of to withstand a deployment at of 928MPH, with very little or no atmosphere, and provide sufficient braking to reduce the Insight lander to the speed of 136 MPH for its terminal descent.. which btw looks to be done with black magic, I wont say how they do it but check the first 35 seconds of the YT -
The parachute is made of polyester and nylon. The final stage of the descent uses 12 rocket engines to slow down the lander.
QuoteThis is just one of the missions that I have a problem with the egg heads at NASA - it doesn't stack up.
What doesn't "stack up"?
QuoteThat, and who is cleaning the camera lens of the many Mars landers and rovers??
The cameras have lens caps.
ok again i am laughing..not at you but at how this seems to work
all this info came from . .????? .. the folks you don't believe
QuoteThe atmosphere of Mars differs from Earth's in many ways, and most of them don't bode well for humans living there.
It's composed mostly of carbon dioxide (95.3 percent compared to less than 1 percent on Earth).
Mars has much less nitrogen (2.7 percent compared to 78 percent on Earth).
It has very little oxygen (0.13 percent compared to 21 percent on Earth).
The red planet's atmosphere is only 0.03 percent water vapor, compared to Earth, where it makes up around 1 percent.
On average, it exerts only 6.1 millibars of surface pressure (Earth's average sea-level atmospheric pressure is 1,013.25 millibars) [source: NASA].
and yes i know you weren't talking about the moon there...
years ago i took an adult class in astronomy.. after the first hour
the poor (many degreed) guy was laughed at as people started to ask how and where all this info came from
he had to say it was extrapolated from this study or that
and again he was heckled with
so these guys ASSUME this info right?
it got almost pitiful for this guy trying to prove all this info was concrete when it wasn't
the audience was merciless
i don't know what they did after cause i left at the break and didn't go to the rest
this sounds like a lot of the same but only with you (general you / basically posters here)believing
some of it as fact
it just makes me laugh...so please don't take offence ;D
@ArMaP, I am just looking into the Drogue Parachute that was used to assist the Vulcan V Bomber in the Cold war when it was deployed in an emergency - I will get back to you with the values and parameters that it could operate -
What doesn't stack up?? friging loads mate.
@Space, I do try and get at least 3 separate reference points of data when I question what NASA broadcasts as news - I think when it comes to NASA and their space missions, you will believe what you want to..
Laterzzz....
F
Quote from: space otter on January 06, 2019, 07:58:58 PM
you guys totally crack me up....you all believe in the ufo stuff and how advanced the military is and we have space colonies etc.
and yet
none of you believe earth humans capable of getting to the moon - on either side
what a group
Well had you been paying attention :P the main premise here has been that yes we have spaceships out there but the stuff they are showing us is all BS
But aside from beliefs etc, how about we use some common sense? And investigation?
Those claiming that this photo is indeed on the moon...
(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBRKS85.img)
Can you
1) TELL ME WHAT CRATER THAT IS?
2) POINT IT OUT ON A MAP OF FARSIDE?
3) EXPLAIN WHY THE HORIZON IS;
A) SO CLOSE
B) SO CURVED (CONSIDERING THE ACTUAL DIAMETER OF THE MOON
4) NO HILLS YET ALL APOLLO AND LUNAR ORBITER SHOTS HAVE HILLS
5) NO JAGGED ROCKS ANYWHERE.. CONSIDERING THERE IS NO AIR FOR EROSION
This is EARTH Mars like desert... we have air we have winds we have water and yet the BASALT is still jagged and not worn smooth... and scattered all around the desert
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e7/Adrar-Reg_%281%29.JPG)
This is MARS Earth like desert... they have air they have winds they have some water and yet the BASALT is still jagged and not worn smooth (cept the two meteorites in front)
(https://naturalishistoria.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/mars-spirit-rover-sol-872-iron-meteorite.jpg)
NASA says the moon is largely BASALT and yet we do not see the fields of broken BASALT scattered all over the moon (from either ancient volcanic activity OR impact) we see smooth hills smooth pebbles and dust
well i have been paying attention here and that's why i am laughing...
where did all those photos come from in the first place for comparison
how do you know that anything they post at all is true.. or as close as we/you can get to true
sorry i think i believe more in bigfoot than nasa
and i do enjoy lookin at the pictures
Quote from: zorgon on January 07, 2019, 10:58:53 PM
Those claiming that this photo is indeed on the moon...
I am not one of those, but I will try to answer. :)
QuoteCan you
1) TELL ME WHAT CRATER THAT IS?
What crater? The small crater on the image? Do they even have names for all small craters?
Quote2) POINT IT OUT ON A MAP OF FARSIDE?
The closest I could find was this (http://lroc.sese.asu.edu/posts/1084).
Quote
3) EXPLAIN WHY THE HORIZON IS;
A) SO CLOSE
B) SO CURVED (CONSIDERING THE ACTUAL DIAMETER OF THE MOON
Chang'e 4's landing site is supposed to be inside a crater, so any photos would not show the Moon's horizon but the crater rim.
Quote4) NO HILLS YET ALL APOLLO AND LUNAR ORBITER SHOTS HAVE HILLS
Inside Von Kármán crater? ???
Quote5) NO JAGGED ROCKS ANYWHERE.. CONSIDERING THERE IS NO AIR FOR EROSION
I think the official explanation for that is erosion by micrometeorites. If that is true then I suppose the erosion would be stronger on the far side, without the Earth's protection.
I am confused by your comments Space O, can you clarify please?.. you do trust NASA or you don't trust NASA ?
Why dont I trust NASA?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p_0bnICtDc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc1V9d8jrr8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KsH2M4m4zM
Chinas Jade Rabbit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5y1JlgCCwg
Still getting data about the drogue chutes' -
Laterzz,
F
perhaps it is the way i said it..
but i was agreeing with Z..
if nasa shows these photos and they don't make sense or can't be proven to match the data they provide with the photo..
why would you believe anything they say?
i'm not a rock or atmosphere person so i read what Z says and go ok.. more bs
what was making me chuckle is the fact that no one believes what they (nasa) are saying or showing (while still arguing about it)
but at the same time most here believe there are "others from elsewhere" who can get here so they do believe in the possibilty
but they don't believe we- earth humans can do it
ah crap
how's this for irony.. we think we are smart enough to recognize the bs (on what basis i don't know) but we don't think we are smart enough to go to the moon
i wasn't saying any of it was false only that it made me chuckle
ah selective humor , i guess
i will go read some vampire romances.. that outta keep me quiet for a bit
;)
Quote from: space otter on January 07, 2019, 10:28:04 PM
all this info came from . .????? .. the folks you don't believe
Actually no the rocks on Earth are not from NASA and I can go look at them just outside of town..
..and since I know about rocks , I know what will and won't erode under certain conditions...
The ones on Mars are from NASA and for all I know that was Filmed in Death Valley :P
Not everything NASA shows is fake... though unfortunately they do so much of it that it is hard to trust them :D However there are other space agencies..
Oh wait THEY are lying too :P and India says Einstein is fake so there ya go...
back to Earth Rocks... at least I can hold those and look at them
Quote from: ArMaP on January 08, 2019, 12:51:43 AM
I think the official explanation for that is erosion by micrometeorites. If that is true then I suppose the erosion would be stronger on the far side, without the Earth's protection.
If that is true... then there must have been billions of micrometeorites between the jagged rocks we saw in Lunar Orbiter photos in the 60/'s and the Apollo photos in the 70's :P
Quote from: space otter on January 08, 2019, 04:10:51 AM
i will go read some vampire romances.. that outta keep me quiet for a bit
;)
Good IDEA
Start HERE
Selene the Moon Goddess and the Mother of VampiresQuoteSelene the moon goddess was a minor figure in ancient Greek mythology. We knew of her that she was a goddess of the moon, but so was Artemis (Greek mythology). Most mythologists assumed that Selene was an older moon goddess that was replaced later by Artemis in myth.
The only other significant story mentioning Selene in ancient Greek mythology is that of the Nemean Lion, whom it is said that Selene had great affection for. In more modern myth, Selene is found to be associated with the origin of Vampire mythology. In this respect she returns to her role as a moon goddess.
Before she was Selene The Moon Goddess, she was a simple human woman named Selene who worked at the Temple of Apollo in Delphi. It is believed that her sister was the Pythia, or Oracle, of the temple. Either way, Selene worked as a Maiden of the Temple, who assisted the Oracle and cared for the temple. Selene was a worshiper of Apollo (Greek mythology), the sun god, originally, until he cursed her true love, Ambrogio, who eventually became the first vampire.
The couple was given protection by Apollo's sister Artemis, the moon goddess, and they moved to Ephesus to worship and serve Artemis at her famous temple there.
http://www.gods-and-monsters.com/selene-the-moon-goddess.html
Armap, look this pic over and tell me what you see or notice in particular in regards to lighting/shadows...
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_china_moon_crater.png)
Quote from: The Seeker on January 04, 2019, 10:09:50 PM
I have to agree, boots on the ground are a lot more reliable than bullshit on the 'net, especially when the source is the Mostly Shit Network 8)
Just a sign of these chaotic times we live in, whatthehay, so pop over and talk to Elon Musk, he might ferry you up there when his Dragon X goes there...
Welp! I just got back........ :D....and it looks like its really made of green cheese....... and there are aliens there..........but not even a track from any earth vehicles or man made foot prints........Soooooooo. lol
He he he WhatTheHey
"i will go read some vampire romances.."
Hmmmmmm they must really SUCK....................lol
Happy Nightmares ;D
Quote from: zorgon on January 08, 2019, 06:04:13 AM
If that is true... then there must have been billions of micrometeorites between the jagged rocks we saw in Lunar Orbiter photos in the 60/'s and the Apollo photos in the 70's :P
Are you comparing those 60s and 70s photos with what, the photos from this new Chinese craft?
QuoteBut aside from beliefs etc, how about we use some common sense? And investigation?
[b
well your statement on selene needs some common sense and an investigation
so here/s my opinion and some real facts
Selene
..what you have copied or quoted or just added to is a made up tv movie version not the mythology i was taught way back there in school or what is written in the many many copies of old books i have in my possession
here are a few corrections for you from on line[/b]
In Greek mythology, Selene (/sɪˈliːni/; Ancient Greek: Σελήνη [selɛ̌ːnɛː] "Moon") is the goddess of the moon. She is the daughter of the Titans Hyperion and Theia, and sister of the sun-god Helios, and Eos, goddess of the dawn. She drives her moon chariot across the heavens.
Siblings: Helios and Eos
Parents: Hyperion and Theia
Roman equivalent: Luna
Symbol: Crescent, chariot, torch, billowing cloak, ...
Selene – Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selene
Hecate, Artemis and Selene are one in the same. Artemis is known as the Goddess of the Triple Aspect because she has three identities. Artemis is the virgin goddess of the hunt (Earth form), Selene is goddess of the moon (sky form) and Hecate is the goddess of witchcraft and the underworld (cthonian/underworld form).May 13, 2015greek - What is the difference between Hecate, Selene, Artemis
...
https://mythology.stackexchange.com/.../what-is-the-difference-between-hecate-selene-a...
........................
Selene - Greek Titan Goddess of the Moon - Greek Gods & Goddesses
https://greekgodsandgoddesses.net/goddesses/selene/Feb 7, 2017 - Rather was the child of Titan goddess and god, Theia and Hyperion. Eos, goddess of the dawn, and Helios, god of the sun, were Selene's siblings. Additionally, although the ancients considered Hecate and Artemis counted as lunar goddesses, only Selene was the moon itself. She is said to have driven the moon chariot.
only the names have changed for the country but most of the myth is the same
my reference (WHICH I DO BELIEVE WAS TOTALLY MISSED)
was meant to mean:
that here (forum) there can be argument.. beleif vs fact.. or a mix of the two
WHEREAS the vampire romance novels i have seen are TOTAL FICTION and bear no arguments as they are a lone work of an author
i didn't think this forum was in that catagory
edit as i meant to add this definition
Internet forum - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum
An Internet forum, or message board, is an
online discussion site where people can hold conversations in the form of posted messages. They differ from chat ...
............................
Quote"i will go read some vampire romances.."
Hmmmmmm they must really SUCK....................lol
Happy Nightmares ;D
Thanks
but if you read some of the story on the jacket covers a few seem to be quite clever
like the one author who says that the vamps are from atlantis and it was the nano's that made them need more blood
i think i will eventually pick up one of those up to read
no argument will ensue because they are label correctly as FICTION
perhaps forum is a misnomer
Quote from: The Seeker on January 08, 2019, 08:55:43 AM
Armap, look this pic over and tell me what you see or notice in particular in regards to lighting/shadows...
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_china_moon_crater.png)
It looks like the light is coming from the bottom left corner of the image. It also looks like the camera (or the lens, most likely) is more sensitive to light in the centre area of the image.
@ArMaP, as a place holder for this thread.. I can say it with words. BUT there are a lot of independent researchers who "say it" better with YT videos - Although I am working on the chute thing.. its going to take a while though.
@Space O, no problems, I must have misinterpreted the comments -
Fans' >:(
Quote from: space otter on January 08, 2019, 09:40:59 PM
Selene
..what you have copied or quoted or just added to is a made up tv movie version not the mythology i was taught way back there in school or what is written in the many many copies of old books i have in my possession
Quotehere are a few corrections for you from on line
AH So you are correcting me on a fictional story with other fictional stories?
::)
PS I merely posted it as "comic relief" :P I merely did a google search for Vampires on the Moon and that was what popped up
::)
you have just proven how easy it is for a person of power (owner) to sway opinion by using a limited amount of info as if it was the only truth
because few will look up info on their own
QuoteAH So you are correcting me on a fictional story with other fictional stories?
i'm not going back to count but how often have you inferred the myths of the past have truth?
Quote
PS I merely posted it as "comic relief"
and how many do you think will laugh and NOT consider this exchange as an argument?
it isn't
pretty easy to appear as something one isn't..isn't it :-\