Pegasus Research Consortium

stories of doctors or nurses offing old folks is bad enough but this is really scary imo
i'm sorry but i have no trust in the ama at all and if you don't think it can happen here..think again

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/nearly-500-children-have-been-infected-with-hiv-in-a-single-pakistani-city-heres-what-to-know/ar-AABNyLh?li=BBnbfcL

Nearly 500 Children Have Been Infected With HIV in a Single Pakistani City. Here's What to Know
Jamie Ducharme  2 hrs ago

QuoteNearly 500 children in a single Pakistani city have tested positive for HIV, in an outbreak that has led to the arrest and release of at least one doctor and highlighted gross inadequacies in the local health care system.

As of mid-May, 410 children and 100 adults in Larkana, a city in Pakistan's Sindh province, had tested positive for HIV, the Associated Press reported. Those numbers have since climbed to 494 children and 113 adults, according to NPR.

How did more than 600 people in one area become infected with HIV? Here's what to know.

When did the outbreak start?
According to reports from NPR and the AP, parents in April began to notice lasting fevers in their children and took them to a nearby medical center for testing. By around April 24, 15 children ages 2 to 8 had tested positive for HIV, according to an op-ed written by Larkana Deputy Commissioner Muhammad Nauman Siddique. "Recognising the seriousness of this issue," local officials shortly thereafter set up a "healthcare camp" where children and their parents could be screened for the virus, Siddique wrote.

"The results of the screening within the first few days were shocking,"
he wrote. "The tests revealed that the parents of the HIV-positive children were HIV negative"—raising questions about how so many children became infected.

By May 14, after screening more than 10,000 people, the number of diagnosed individuals had grown to more than 400, according to the country's National AIDS Control Programme. As testing continued, that number only grew.

How did so many people get infected with HIV?
A web of unsanitary and unsafe medical practices seems to be to blame, according to local officials.

Many of the children who originally tested positive for HIV had been treated in a Larkana clinic run by Dr. Muzaffar Ghangharo, NPR reports. After demands from parents, Ghangharo was eventually tested for HIV. The results came back positive, "and here is when it was suspected that he was the source of spreading HIV in their kids
suspected that he was the source of spreading HIV in their kids through bad practices," a district police officer told NPR.

Ghangharo was arrested on suspicion of intentionally infecting his patients with HIV, the BBC reports. Pakistan's SAMAA TV reported Thursday that he was cleared of that charge, but found guilty of "criminal medical negligence." Ghangharo denied the original accusations in a video filmed in jail.

Officials have pointed to medical negligence across the local health care system as a likely cause of the outbreak. Many local officials have blamed "quacks," in apparent reference to the large number of unqualified individuals who practice medicine in the area.

"Possible causes included clinics run by quacks, use of a single syringe for multiple patients, and use of the same drip set for multiple patients," Siddique wrote in his op-ed. He added that at least 61 unsafe clinics have been "sealed" and 29 more health care centers warned in the wake of the outbreak.

Sindh health officials also suggested that barbershops, where razor blades are sometimes reused, could be a possible transmission source, NPR reports. Siddique also pointed to unsafe circumcisions, which sometimes take place in barbershops, in his op-ed.

This is not the first time Larkana's medical system has been at the center of an HIV outbreak. An outbreak among dialysis patients, which infected about 50 people, was reported in 2016. Years earlier, there was also an outbreak among intravenous drug users in Larkana.

What's being done about the Larkana HIV outbreak?
National and international health authorities, including the World Health Organization, UNAIDS and UNICEF, are collaborating on a response in Larkana, which includes ongoing free testing of individuals who may be infected, crackdowns on unsafe clinics and barbershops and public education campaigns about preventing the spread of HIV. Siddique has also urged medical professionals to use auto-lock syringes, which cannot be reused, and called for better labs for conducting medical blood work.

Pakistan Health Minister Dr. Zafar Mirza also announced on May 23 that three new HIV/AIDs treatment centers would be established throughout Sindh.

India's Sanitary Conditions?

Hmmm

(https://humarabachpan.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/urban-sanitation-cover-width-620px_ht-320px.jpg)

(https://images.indianexpress.com/2014/12/agraslums-main.jpg)

Public Toilets (they even made a movie about the problem)

(https://images.theconversation.com/files/185716/original/file-20170912-17992-8uo4h4.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=926&fit=clip)
https://theconversation.com/indias-ambitious-plans-to-achieve-sanitation-for-all-must-look-beyond-building-individual-toilets-82527

Sanitation workers in India's caste system are "untouchables" the lowest of the low

QuoteAttitudes to gender and caste
India has to be careful so that the project does not interfere with its efforts to boost gender equality. Historically, campaigns pushing for more toilets to be built often cite the modesty of women as the main reason – toilets after all prevent women from exposing themselves in public.

This is also problematic as it places the burden of adjustment on women. Indeed, in many households that have built toilets, men do not even necessarily use them. This links with the broader issue of people resisting the introduction of toilets per se.

The regressive nature of such campaigns is now officially recognised with new governmental guidelines urging a rethink of behaviour-change tactics). Yet, much more needs to be done. As long as it is men who plan for toilets, the needs of women are either subsidiary or not taken into account at all.

Clearly, women have specific sanitation needs, for instance, related to menstrual hygiene. This needs to be fully integrated into any goals to boost sanitation – a challenge in a country where periods are associated with shame. Schemes for the provision of sanitary products constitute a definite step forward, but these are limited and environment-friendly disposal facilities and awareness campaigns are even more limited.

(https://images.theconversation.com/files/185706/original/file-20170912-3778-16w9zp3.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=450&fit=crop&dpr=1)
Open defecation in Pandharpur, a pilgrimage town.  SuSanA Secretariat c/o:Yaniv Malz, CC BY-SA

QuoteAttitudes to caste matter, too. Sanitation work is a very sensitive issue in India because it is mainly carried out by the lowest caste, Dalit – once called "untouchables". People from this caste even carry out manual scavenging, the inhuman practice of manually collecting human excrement from dry latrines to clean them – despite the fact that the practice is prohibited by law.

With millions of new toilets, more sanitation workers will be needed to carry out faecal sludge management. This will be difficult, as such jobs are stigmatised. Indeed, the conditions for such workers are often appalling – the media regularly reports on the deaths of sanitation workers who have entered sewers without any protective gear.

Clearly, one of the challenges India is facing is addressing this social stigma to make sanitation work an acceptable and safe career that is not reserved for a specific group in society. Mechanisation of the process could go some way to help ensure that workers do not need to enter the sewers.

QuoteEnvironmental threat

There are also risks to the environment. At present, the toilets that are built are mostly single pit latrines that will need to be emptied at least once every few years. Where the pits are lined at the bottom, the septage will need to be pumped out more regularly, and there need to be measures in place to ensure that it is not simply disposed of in neighbouring fields or rivers.

Where the pits are not lined, one of the concerns is the impact on groundwater quality. In the state of Kerala, where most houses have an unlined pit on one side of the house and a well used for drinking water on the other side, this is a particular problem. In a context where groundwater is the source of drinking water for around 80% of the population in India, the building of so many new toilets needs to be carefully planned.

Overall, the major progress that has been witnessed in access to sanitation over the past few years is a first step forward. It needs, however, to be linked to a series of other actions and an awareness of the social and cultural dimensions of sanitation. Without this, the country is unlikely to achieve full success.

https://theconversation.com/indias-ambitious-plans-to-achieve-sanitation-for-all-must-look-beyond-building-individual-toilets-82527

Commuting in India?     No Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw_XzK4zQLs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTsWndiDCzU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AytQEpwQUo

Quote from: zorgon on May 23, 2019, 11:14:41 PM
India's Sanitary Conditions?

AIDS doesn't spread the same way other diseases do, Zorgon.  It is blood borne, not water or aerosol.  Bad sanitation will spread malaria, typhoid, dysentery etc; but not AIDS.

Quote from: petrus4 on May 24, 2019, 09:22:48 AM
AIDS doesn't spread the same way other diseases do, Zorgon.  It is blood borne, not water or aerosol.  Bad sanitation will spread malaria, typhoid, dysentery etc; but not AIDS.

I know that :P or from Monkey Diddling :P

Unfortunately it seems that countries like Pakistan still has quite a few charlatans and idiots posing as medical professionals; that is not good for their people and one wonders how many infectious diseases are being let or have been let into the states over the last decade...

::) ::) ::)

Quote from: The Seeker on May 24, 2019, 01:57:40 PM
Unfortunately it seems that countries like Pakistan still has quite a few charlatans and idiots posing as medical professionals; that is not good for their people and one wonders how many infectious diseases are being let or have been let into the states over the last decade...

::) ::) ::)

It's like the illegals coming across our border illegally.  They are not screened and suddenly we have outbreaks of measles and other things.  Then the powers that be blame it on children not being vaccinated.  Some diseases up until unchecked migration suddenly surged then we had a problem.  We didn't have that before.

geeeze guys...this was about a doctor with aids spreading it to innocent folk under the guise of medicine
  horrible ! horrible ! horrible !




your responses show how out of touch the public has become with
reading what is written and  then turning it into something it isn't

very sad on two fronts

Sorry Space Otter.

dear space maverick
thank you..

but this just proves a point
a point that we have to read with our eyes wide open
and not be led off base

i am having a very very hard time with politics and what is happening to us...all politics
and how easily we jump at each other
i do respect all of your opinions on what you think would be best for this country that we love..but i don't agree with all of them and i don't think you have to agree with me

but i do feel very strongly that we need to stop calling names and feeling negitively towards anyone not agreeing with our personal choice

up until the last election i felt this forum was a wonderful space..even in disagreement about a point or a picture there was an honest liking of 'fellow explorers"....
but it's gone now and i feel very sad about the loss of being able to speak freely without being bombarded with mean comments

what we all had in common in looking for answers has been smashed
the high regard we had for each other is lessen to a point of disrespect for each other

i speak for myself in saying that it does hurt me..deeply and it keeps me from posting..i am sorry for that....i do miss you guys

be well
hugs

Sharing needles is a vector for a lot of bloodborne pathogens.  And unfortunately, quacks are not exclusive to India.

QuoteOfficials have pointed to medical negligence across the local health care system as a likely cause of the outbreak. Many local officials have blamed "quacks," in apparent reference to the large number of unqualified individuals who practice medicine in the area.

"Possible causes included clinics run by quacks, use of a single syringe for multiple patients, and use of the same drip set for multiple patients," Siddique wrote in his op-ed. He added that at least 61 unsafe clinics have been "sealed" and 29 more health care centers warned in the wake of the outbreak.

Otter, the above quote is from your post, and I directed my comments to that particular item; also considering we have refugees here from Pakistan and that region, that is why I commented on what might possibly have been allowed in, since blood tests and screenings have not been conducted...

::) ::) ::)

Quoteup until the last election i felt this forum was a wonderful space..even in disagreement about a point or a picture there was an honest liking of 'fellow explorers"....

but it's gone now and i feel very sad about the loss of being able to speak freely without being bombarded with mean comments

what we all had in common in looking for answers has been smashed
the high regard we had for each other is lessen to a point of disrespect for each other

Greetings Space Otter:

This forum IS "a wonderful place"... actually, it's what you [the members] make of it.

And I don't see what the election had to do with it. Please help me here.

Quotebeing able to speak freely without being bombarded with mean comments

I see you've walked a mile in my shoes... :P

The "N" (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=9157.msg145162#msg145162) word is verboten here...LOL

We're not allowed to greet each other with "Nanu nanu?"  How bonjour, or jambo?

@Space Maverick,
My former sister-in-law crossed illegally, as did my nephew by marriage.  The only disease that got spread was my daughter spreading chickenpox to my brother's kids.

Quote from: space otter on May 24, 2019, 11:50:15 PM
but this just proves a point
a point that we have to read with our eyes wide open
and not be led off base

Hmmm Question.........

How many of my non political posts has anyone read or responded to before they fell off the page? Like the 10,ooo year old village in Canada?

Quotei am having a very very hard time with politics and what is happening to us...all politics
and how easily we jump at each other

True Poly Ticks is a tough subject amongst friends, but at the same time we are facing a SERIOUS problem in the USA that could very fast turn us into a third world nation...  So playing Ostrich or ignoring it is not a very good idea..........

And it pains me to see how easily some people are able to brush off or justify the current antics of the left.

However, I don't see anyone jumping at each other either

Quotebut i do feel very strongly that we need to stop calling names and feeling negitively towards anyone not agreeing with our personal choice

I don't see anyone calling names at forum members... bytscum ofthe earth like Pelosim Feinstein, AOC and Omar..?  Sorry They all need to be exterminated ASAP  I find it hard to believe people voted these insane people into power and they have ACCESS TO ALL OUR SECRETS and yet hell bent on destroying the US

Quoteup until the last election i felt this forum was a wonderful space..even in disagreement about a point or a picture there was an honest liking of 'fellow explorers"....
but it's gone now and i feel very sad about the loss of being able to speak freely without being bombarded with mean comments

From what I see there are maybe a dozen or so regular posters left, and I don't see anyone singling you or anyone else out. If They Do a simple note to a nod fixes that

Quotewhat we all had in common in looking for answers has been smashed
the high regard we had for each other is lessen to a point of disrespect for each other

I suppose the problem is 1) most of the material has been rehashed a gazillion times with no new answers and 2) when something mew does come up, seems no one cares (or doesn't see it go by on the recent list nor go look on the menu for new posts

Quotei speak for myself in saying that it does hurt me..deeply and it keeps me from posting..i am sorry for that....i do miss you guys

We miss you too :D  Now perhaps take a minute and see some of my posts that everyone is ignoring. Makes me think "WHY BOTHER?" at times :P

ok
i apologize for breaking my own rule of not taking anything personally

i have never considered myself delicate or prejudging of folk

but

some time around the last election  (and it is a very long story  not for here right now) something crashed that rule and everything about the election affected me and  continues to affect me
it seems that no matter what is going on on any level or any subject
it is taken back to connect with politics..and what side you feel closer to

i have backed away from voicing such feelings so as to not spark
attack of back and forth of who is best..

but my first post on this thread just went to that place and so i spoke up about it..maybe that is good maybe not

QuoteTrue Poly Ticks is a tough subject amongst friends, but at the same time we are facing a SERIOUS problem in the USA that could very fast turn us into a third world nation...  So playing Ostrich or ignoring it is not a very good idea...

i don't think i am an ostrich (which in itself is a misnomer)
they don't stick their heads in the sand.. they run away
i don't feel i am doing either

yes it is  a tough subject but i don't feel it needs to be the ONLY subject ...case in point is what happened with this thread ::)

and i agree we are facing a very serious problem and i can easily see us going to a dictatorship because of the liar and chief and his childish playground agenda of ..if you pick on me i won't play with you.   that is not leadership
White men (and women) seem so afraid of loosing their privileged spot in the pecking order they aren't addressing the changes they are
declaring war and the rich are using it to get richer..
it's a freakin mess
we really need to talk first and see what we have in common

so there....i've broken  another self rule

i'm not happy about it so i am running away to the garden before the forecasted storms


and Thor.. i do hope you were meaning nuclear with that n word comment..
.bwhahahahahahah     :o  off beat sense of humor strikes again

Greetings Space Otter:

NOT Nanu Nanu (and a tip of the Hatlo Hat to my good [real world] friend Rex Bear),
but one might click on that "N" [which is hot] and see what happens.   :P

Much Love
tfw

sorry Thor i'm a bit slow on the uptake

i think the planet is pissed off enough that N won't be needed  to dump all us stupid humans

hugs

Quote from: space otter on May 25, 2019, 04:29:49 PM
some time around the last election  (and it is a very long story  not for here right now) something crashed that rule and everything about the election affected me and  continues to affect me

Yeah Timeline flip :P hit us all :D

Quotei don't think i am an ostrich (which in itself is a misnomer)
they don't stick their heads in the sand.. they run away
i don't feel i am doing either

See I have a problem with that  All my life ostriches DID do that.....  but now they don't :P  makes it hard to keep up with all the changes;

So what is the TRUTH?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7Kx7D1qs1ujEC43jVDBXbk9d1PAPaFrrBDz-Ljyuup2WnCrvI)

(http://wafflesatnoon.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ostrich-head-in-sand.jpg)

(http://d2matkszqbr38n.cloudfront.net/gall_content/2016/5/2016_5$largeimg127_May_2016_160603807.jpg)

Seems they DO :P  because they bury their eggs and stick their head into a hole to check on the eggs :D

well i don't think this is a time warp.. but information is the key
if you only know who to believe

those posting pics or the national geographic
this time i'm going with them
soooo can two things be true at the same time? ?

sorry Z


https://kids.nationalgeographic.com/explore/nature/animal-myths-busted/

QuoteMYTH: Ostriches bury their heads in the sand when they're scared or threatened.



HOW IT STARTED: It's an optical illusion! Ostriches are the largest living birds, but their heads are pretty small. "If you see them picking at the ground from a distance, it may look like their heads are buried in the ground," says Glinda Cunningham of the American Ostrich Association.



WHY IT'S NOT TRUE: Ostriches don't bury their heads in the sand—they wouldn't be able to breathe! But they do dig holes in the dirt to use as nests for their eggs. Several times a day, a bird puts her head in the hole and turns the eggs. So it really does look like the birds are burying their heads in the sand!

Quote from: space otter on May 25, 2019, 04:29:49 PM
and i agree we are facing a very serious problem and i can easily see us going to a dictatorship because of the liar and chief and his childish playground agenda of ..if you pick on me i won't play with you.   that is not leadership

That is why we feud :P WHY is it necessary to call the Emperor  :P a liar? so far If you look at actual statistics, he has accomplished way more that the last three presidents combined. When did it become the norm in the USA to bash to president to such an extreme? Respect for the office at least is deserved... and he donates all his salary :P 

While on the other side all they do is bash bash and block...  and waste millions on Russian Collusion. I for one would like to see how Pelosi mad millions on a government salary and why Feinstein is making private calls to Iranian ministers when we are on the verge of war?

But the system has become all about personal attacks and bashing, not about actually working together to save the USA

Just look at the roster of names running for president in 2020.  Geez 

If we don't talk about it, it festers inside.  We all know no one will change their mind :P but in the current situation you can't expect people not to want to talk about it.  Solution?  there is none :P

QuoteThat is why we feud :P WHY is it necessary to call the Emperor  :P a liar?

maybe because he is a liar and maybe because this is a democracy and we should have a president not a frigin emperor...
there is the first of my gripes... an emperor dictates
a president leads ...not divides
so we are already on different views without going anywhere else


this is a tit for tat  -   it doesn't work.. .. we can toss this back and forth forever and also like you said no one is going to change their mind

IMO all the complaints need to be handled by asking.. and what are you doing to change things you don't like?

personally i have been involved with the local zoning and hubby has been on council for over 15 years  ...and i can tell you first hand that there are more folks bitching and moaning than there are folk getting involved to change things...


when i voted for the primary on tuesday it was sad.. i was late getting up that day and didn't get to the poles till 10.. i was number 28 to vote..totally pathetic

yes we need changes and yes we need a lot of them but if folks refuse to get involved.. and i mean involved  in a personal way.. then we become so much dust on the feet of those  running the place.

yelling about all the folks you don't like who have gotten involved for that reason - that they want  to work at change  does not move us forward

and this is why i didn't want to do this....i won't apologize  but i also will not continue with this vein of posting

i'm going out to the garden and finishing planting

hugs



Donald Trump has now said more than 10,000 untrue things as ...
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/29/politics/donald-trump-lies-washington.../index.html
Apr 29, 2019 - That the President of the United States doesn't tell the truth -- a lot -- is not new news.
..............................................
Report: Trump Has Told More Than 10,000 Lies Since Being ...
https://www.vanityfair.com/.../trump-has-told-more-than-10000-lies-since-being-inau...Apr 29, 2019 - These are some of the boldest, most deranged lies Donald Trump has told since becoming the 45th president of the United States. But, as ...

.................................

Trump Spent $102 Million of Taxpayer's Money Golfing at Trump Resorts
https://www.theroot.com/trump-spent-more-than-three-times-the-cost-of-robert-mu-1...3 days ago - Well, an exclusive report by HuffPost has found that President Trump has spent some $102 million of taxpayers' money to play golf at his own ...

............................

How Is Donald Trump Profiting From the Presidency? Let Us Count the ...
https://www.usnews.com/.../how-is-donald-trump-profiting-from-the-presidency-let-u...Mar 5, 2018 - Donald Trump is raking in big bucks from emoluments foreign and domestic. ... whether family members, cronies or fringy neophytes and of course the old ... since he took office; Ivanka Trump, the president's daughter and ...

Quote from: space otter on May 25, 2019, 11:50:48 PM
there is the first of my gripes... an emperor dictates

The Emperor comment was HUMOR  :P Someting that the left seems to have lost :P Politic Satire has given way to Vile Hatred

Quotea president leads ...not divides

Talk about dividing..Before Obama came along the 'race' card was all but forgotten... now the left says growing CABBAGE is 'racist'

Quotethis is a tit for tat  -   it doesn't work.. .. we can toss this back and forth forever and also like you said no one is going to change their mind

Yup :D So what does I gotta do to wake you up and change your mind?  Hopefully BEFORE we become the next Venezuela?

IMO all the complaints need to be handled by asking.. and what are you doing to change things you don't like?

Quotepersonally i have been involved with the local zoning and hubby has been on council for over 15 years  ...and i can tell you first hand that there are more folks bitching and moaning than there are folk getting involved to change things...

That has been true all through History  only about 20% do the actual 'fighting'

Quotewhen i voted for the primary on tuesday it was sad.. i was late getting up that day and didn't get to the poles till 10.. i was number 28 to vote..totally pathetic

For people to get excited about voting, they need to feel there is someone on the ballet worth voting for. THAT is why Trump won... love or hate him, he gave the people someone worth voting for hence they came out in the thousands.  If your choice is limited to a bunch of clowns that are all the same, you tend to say "F88k it, not worth mu time" and that is how idiots like AOC and Onar get to be in congress making 174K a year while literally talking the end of Israel and the United States (and cows for AOC :P)

What I have trouble understanding is how any sane person, no matter the party, can look at some of these people and still think they should be in office.  because NO ONE is removing them

Quoteyes we need changes and yes we need a lot of them but if folks refuse to get involved.. and i mean involved  in a personal way.. then we become so much dust on the feet of those  running the place.

Getting people involved to make changes requires a leader they can follow. Few people are great thinkers, but will 'follow the leader' IF there is a solid plan

Quoteyelling about all the folks you don't like who have gotten involved for that reason - that they want  to work at change  does not move us forward

I don't yell at them  but in some cases like AOC I laugh at them. Seems not even her own people support her Green deal. Omar is just a plain traitor and needs to be sent packing. She is hired by the people to work FOR the people, not against us

Quoteand this is why i didn't want to do this....i won't apologize  but i also will not continue with this vein of posting

Hokey Dokey

Quotei'm going out to the garden and finishing planting

Have fun :D

hugs
[/b][/color]

QuoteTrump Spent $102 Million of Taxpayer's Money Golfing at Trump Resorts
https://www.theroot.com/trump-spent-more-than-three-times-the-cost-of-robert-mu-1...3 days ago - Well, an exclusive report by HuffPost has found that President Trump has spent some $102 million of taxpayers' money to play golf at his own ...

+

Now see? THIS kind of stuff puts you in the same boat as those others.

First... golfing and family vacations have ALWAYS been included in the salary of a President so why single out Trump without showing what Obama got ( and is STILL getting as ex president?) What is the purpose?  Even SNOPES says:  "What's False
The stated total of $147 million for President Trump and family's travel expenditures over nine months was vastly exaggerated and unsupported by actual data."  well who needs 'actual data' eh?  :P

side note....

do you remember john ventre  from mufon?....well he was on the ballot for county commissioners for westmoreland  cty....



https://triblive.com/local/westmoreland/gop-commissioner-candidate-apologizes-for-late-night-robocalls/


Westmoreland Republicans nominate Kertes, Chew for commissioner ...
https://triblive.com/.../westmoreland-republicans-nominate-kertes-chew-for-commissio...
5 days ago - The top vote-getters were separated by about 500 votes and were easily ahead of third-place finisher John Ventre (13.5%). Paul Kosko was ...

Quote from: zorgon on May 26, 2019, 02:35:47 AM
Getting people involved to make changes requires a leader they can follow. Few people are great thinkers, but will 'follow the leader' IF there is a solid plan

The problem (as I see it) is that people do not care if a supposed leader has a plan or not, they follow him/her just because he/she "sounds like a leader". For people to choose a leader based on his/her plan they would need to know what that plan is, and that implies reading, not watching a couple of YouTube videos that are just publicity about the supposed plan. If politicians have real plans they published them in written form, not in video. Yes, they usually make videos about it, but a real plan is not something like, for example, just saying "make America great again" or "yes, we can", those are just slogans, not plans.

Most people today accept better the people that talk like a snake oil salesman than someone that has a real plan and explains it, as it sounds boring. If we are talking about someone known because they appear on TV regularly then they will accept him/her with open arms.

Look at the Portuguese example: in the last presidential elections, the candidate that won is a known politician that has been out of active politics for several years but that was a political commentator on a TV channel. When he said he was in the race for the presidency many people, used to the old style politics of people really having a plan, thought he wouldn't be a problem to the candidates presented by the parties, and they were wrong, as he won without problems.

(Having said the above, I would like to point that in Portugal the president has very little power (mostly he has the power to dissolve the parliament and call for parliament elections), it's mostly a "public relations" office for international relations.)

Today we witness a new wave of political commentators that appear to use that platform to reach the same (or similar) positions of (relative) power in the future.

We are living in the Social Media era, so the ones with better social skills, not the best politicians, are the ones that get elected.

PS: see why I have not posted on this thread before? I knew that if I did I will only be adding to the off topic discussion, not to the real topic. Why's that? Because there's not much I can add to the opening post, as bad things happen to common people for many reasons, and, as we say in Portugal, "when the ocean hits the rocks it's the mussel that gets screwed", meaning that the little people are always the ones that get to face the biggest problems in their daily life.

Zorgon:

Quote...why Feinstein is making private calls to Iranian ministers when we are on the verge of war?

Perhaps she and John Kerry can share a cell...

QuoteLII U.S. Code Title 18. CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE Part I. CRIMES Chapter 45. FOREIGN RELATIONS Section 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects...

Enacted in 1799, the Logan Act is a federal law that criminalizes negotiation by unauthorized persons with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States. No one has ever been convicted of violating it.

Quote from: thorfourwinds on May 26, 2019, 06:06:09 PM

QuoteAny citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Enacted in 1799, the Logan Act is a federal law that criminalizes negotiation by unauthorized persons with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States. No one has ever been convicted of violating it.

I suppose those bold parts would help keep any senator safe, as being on the senate can be seen as giving them authority, while the intent part is always hard to prove.

@Space Otter

We may not be able to fix something in the political realm but what those bozos in office do affects us all.  My way of coping is educating, informing and guiding others to that which is lawful, constitutionally sound, giving my informed opinion and so on.  I can't fix it all.  I have strong opinions.  I can, however, do what I can do in my little circle.  Everyone has an opinion and we can respect that at least.  Some people are far out in the left field and we have to respect that also.

We can't fix uninformed stupid voters but we can influence our little circle of friends.  Our education system in the USA has been sabotaged since the early 70's and we can't fix that either.

My motto has been to educate, inform and guide and that is what I try to do.  Some people argue for the sake of arguing which in my opinion accomplishes exactly nothing.  It builds their ego because they think more highly of themselves than they should.  I fly off the handle once in a while and then I remember I must maintain a thick skin and just sluff it off.  Hey, we are all human and we can't be perfect because we are not perfect

Quote from: ArMaP on May 26, 2019, 12:56:26 PM

PS: see why I have not posted on this thread before? I knew that if I did I will only be adding to the off topic discussion, not to the real topic. Why's that? Because there's not much I can add to the opening post, as bad things happen to common people for many reasons, and, as we say in Portugal, "when the ocean hits the rocks it's the mussel that gets screwed", meaning that the little people are always the ones that get to face the biggest problems in their daily life.

That happens a lot :P but here we DO have the ability to simply SPLIT the topic so the more active section (the off topic one :P ) cand continued and since there is not much else to add to the OP, it will fade into the dark cellars :D

suggestion
really scary medical
really scary politics

QuoteNow see? THIS kind of stuff puts you in the same boat as those others.

yep OTHERS who see your emperor for what he is
juvenile  lying rich kid

yes this should probably go into the political part somewhere
i'm not sure where you split it though
hey you're emperor here..you decide
and yeah the golf is a moot point except that he makes money on it
by playing on his own properties..i don't think the last guy has any of those

but add this little piece to the lying section a
the draft dodger makes false claims on memorial day
pisses me off big time
how's that ccr song go

oh yeah my hubby goes to the VA so i know when this program started and it wasn't with your emperor

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck/ap-fact-check-trump-takes-credit-for-obamas-gains-for-vets/ar-AABYiCW?li=BBnb7Kz

AP FACT CHECK: Trump takes credit for Obama's gains for vets

QuoteWASHINGTON — Boastful on the occasion of Memorial Day, President Donald Trump and his Veterans Affairs secretary are claiming full credit for health care improvements that were underway before they took office.

Trump said he passed a private-sector health care program, Veterans Choice, after failed attempts by past presidents for the last "45 years." That's not true. The Choice program, which allows veterans to see doctors outside the government-run VA system at taxpayer expense, was first passed in 2014 under President Barack Obama.

Trump's VA secretary, Robert Wilkie, also is distorting the facts. Faulting previous "bad leadership" at VA, Wilkie suggested it was his own efforts that improved waiting times at VA medical centers and brought new offerings of same-day mental health service. The problem: The study cited by Wilkie on wait times covers the period from 2014 to 2017, before Wilkie took the helm as VA secretary. Same-day mental health services at VA were started during the Obama administration under Wilkie's predecessor, David Shulkin.

The half-truths and exaggerations came in a week when selective accounting was a norm in Trump's rhetoric, extending into his trip to Japan , where he inflated the drop in the U.S. unemployment rate for women.

A look at the claims, about the Russia investigation, the border, drug prices and more:

VETERANS

TRUMP: "We passed VA Choice and VA Accountability to give our veterans the care that they deserve and they have been trying to pass these things for 45 years." — Montoursville, Pennsylvania, rally on May 20.

THE FACTS: Wrong. Trump is not the first president in 45 years to get Congress to pass Veterans Choice; Obama did it in the wake of a scandal at VA's medical center in Phoenix, where some veterans died while waiting months for appointments. The program currently allows veterans to see doctors outside the VA system if they must wait more than 30 days for an appointment or drive more than 40 miles (65 kilometers) to a VA facility.

Trump did expand eligibility for the program. Now, starting June 6,
veterans are to have that option for a private doctor if their VA wait is only 20 days (28 for specialty care) or their drive is only 30 minutes.

Still, VA's top health official, Dr. Richard Stone, described the new program's start to "almost be a non-event" in testimony to Congress. That's in part because wait times in the private sector are typically longer than at VA. In 2018, 34 percent of all VA appointments were with outside physicians, down from 36 percent in 2017.

Also key to the Choice program's success is an overhaul of VA's electronic medical records to allow seamless sharing of them with private physicians, a process expected to take up to 10 years. Wilkie has said full implementation of the expanded Choice program is "years" away.

WILKIE: "The first thing I did was change out the leadership at VA. ... (The president) also allowed me to change out leadership in the VA centers. If someone wasn't walking the post, getting to know the people who work for her or him, or getting to know those veterans, they had to leave. And, as a result, the Journal of the American Medical Association this year said that our waiting times are now as good or better than any in the private sector." — interview Thursday with Fox News.

THE FACTS: It's true that a study by the medical association came out in January that found wait times at VA medical centers on average were better than the private sector. But the improvement wasn't a "result" of anything that Wilkie did: The study involved a period largely covering the Obama administration — and before Wilkie became acting VA secretary in late March 2018.

In fact, in a VA press release in January announcing the study's results, Wilkie credits the department's "concerted" effort to improve access to care "since 2014."

In fact, in a VA press release in January announcing the study's results, Wilkie credits the department's "concerted" effort to improve access to care "since 2014."

The study covered four specialties, primary care, dermatology, cardiology and orthopedics.

It found that in 2014, the average wait time at VA medical centers was 22.5 days, compared with 18.7 days in the private sector, which was not statistically different. By 2017, the wait time at VA improved to 17.7 days, while increasing to 29.8 days for private doctors. Wait times at VA medical centers were shorter in all specialties except orthopedics.

According to the study, the number of patients seen yearly in VA increased slightly between 2014 and 2017, to about 5.1 million. VA patient satisfaction also rose, according to patient surveys cited in the study.

WILKIE: The VA "had suffered from bad leadership. And that's a bipartisan comment. And the second thing I had to do was make sure that as we approach our veteran population that we make sure that they are at the center, their needs are at the center of what we do ... I think we've had it backwards at VA for many years. ... One of the things that we're doing at VA is that we have same-day mental health service. ... It is huge." — interview with Fox News.

THE FACTS: Same-day mental health service started at VA before Trump took office in January 2017, let alone Wilkie.

VA's effort to provide same-day primary and mental-health care when medically necessary at every VA medical center was publicized in April 2016 under the Obama administration. At the time, Shulkin was helping lead the effort as VA's top health official. By late 2016, the department's blog announced that the goal of same-day mental health services would be achieved by year's end.

A Dec. 23, 2016, article in the Harvard Business Review cites new same-day services at all VA hospitals as evidence of notable progress at the department. Shulkin, who was then named by Trump to be his VA secretary, told Congress in late January 2017 the services already were fully in place.

Trump selected Wilkie to be his VA secretary after firing Shulkin in March 2018 because of ethics charges and internal rebellion at the department over the role of private care for veterans. Trump's initial replacement choice, White House doctor Ronny Jackson, withdrew after allegations of workplace misconduct surfaced. While Wilkie has been credited by both parties in Congress for bringing stability to the department, the VA improvements he attributes to himself this past week are misplaced.

ECONOMY

TRUMP, on the unemployment rate: "With women, we have the best numbers we've had in now 71 years. That's going to be, very soon, a historic number, meaning the best ever." — remarks Saturday with Japanese business leaders in Tokyo.

THE FACTS: The unemployment rate for women is not the best in 71 years.

According to the Labor Department, the women's unemployment rate fell last month to 3.1%. That's just the lowest since October 1953, or 66 years ago, when it also was 3.1%. The lowest on record was 2.4% in May 1953.

___

TRUMP: "My Administration is achieving things that have never been
done before, including unleashing perhaps the Greatest Economy in our Country's history." — tweet Wednesday.

TRUMP: "Most successful economy, perhaps, in our country's history." — remarks to reporters Wednesday.

THE FACTS: The economy is solid but it's not one of the best in our country's history, no matter how many times he asserts it. Trump is also claiming full credit for an economic expansion that began under Obama in mid-2009.

The economy expanded at an annual rate of 3.2 percent in the first quarter of this year. That growth was the highest in just four years for the first quarter.

In the late 1990s, growth topped 4 percent for four straight years, a level it has not yet reached on an annual basis under Trump. Growth even reached 7.2 percent in 1984.
While the economy has shown strength, it grew 2.9% in 2018 - the same pace it reached in 2015 — and simply hasn't hit historically high growth rates.

___

TRUMP claims "the best unemployment numbers in history." — Pennsylvania rally on May 20.

THE FACTS: The 3.6% unemployment rate in the latest report is not the best in history. It's the lowest since 1969, when it was 3.5%. The U.S. also had lower rates than now in the early 1950s. And during three years of World War II, the annual rate was under 2%.

___

TRUMP INVESTIGATIONS

TRUMP: "I don't do cover-ups." — Rose Garden remarks Wednesday to reporters.

THE FACTS: Federal prosecutors may not agree with that assertion, which he made in response to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's accusation that the president was engaged in a cover-up. Trump spoke after breaking off an infrastructure meeting when Pelosi and Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., came to the White House for it.

Prosecutors' court filings in December said Trump directed his former personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, to make payments to buy the silence of porn actress Stormy Daniels and former Playboy model Karen McDougal during the 2016 presidential campaign. Both women alleged they had extramarital affairs with Trump, which the White House denies.

In particular, the Justice Department says the hush money payments were unreported campaign contributions meant to influence the outcome of the election. That assertion makes the payments subject to campaign finance laws, which restrict how much people can donate to a campaign and bar corporations from making direct contributions.

Trump has said the payments were "a simple private transaction," not a campaign contribution.

Separately, the Mueller report found that Trump dictated his son Trump Jr.'s misleading statement about a June 2016 meeting at Trump Tower to cloak its purpose.

Cohen, who pleaded guilty last year to campaign finance crimes in connection with those payments, had previously implicated Trump. The department's filings backed up Cohen's claims.

The Mueller report said Trump learned in summer of 2017 that the news media planned to report on the meeting at Trump Tower between senior campaign officials and Russians offering derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, the Democratic presidential nominee.

Trump directed aides not to disclose the emails setting up the meeting. Before the emails became public, the president also edited a press statement for Donald Trump Jr. by deleting a line that acknowledged that the meeting was "with an individual who (Trump Jr.) was told might have information helpful to the campaign" and instead said only that the meeting was about adoptions.

That episode was among 10 identified by the Mueller investigation of possible obstruction of justice by Trump. Mueller said in his report that he could not conclusively determine that Trump had committed a crime or that he hadn't.

___

TRUMP: "The greatest Hoax in American History." — tweet Wednesday.

THE FACTS: A two-year investigation that produced guilty pleas, convictions and criminal charges against Russian intelligence officers and others with ties to the Kremlin, as well as Trump associates, is not a hoax.

Mueller charged 34 people, including the president's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, his first national security adviser, Michael Flynn, and three Russian companies. Twenty-five Russians were indicted on charges related to election interference, accused either of hacking Democratic email accounts during the campaign or of orchestrating a social media campaign that spread disinformation on the internet.

Five Trump aides pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate with Mueller, and a sixth, longtime confidant Roger Stone, is awaiting trial on charges he lied to Congress and engaged in witness tampering.

Mueller's report concluded that Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election was "sweeping and systematic." Ultimately, Mueller did not find a criminal conspiracy between Russia and the Trump campaign. But the special counsel didn't render judgment on whether Trump obstructed justice, saying his investigators found evidence on both sides.

___

TRUMP ON BIDEN

TRUMP, on Democratic presidential contender Joe Biden: "He's not from Pennsylvania. I guess he was born here but he left you, folks. ... He left you for another state and he didn't take care of you because he didn't take care of your jobs. He let other countries come in and rip off America." — Pennsylvania rally on May 20.

THE FACTS: It's true that Pennsylvania-born Biden left the state without taking care of jobs for the people he left behind. He was a boy, 10 or 11, when his family moved to Delaware in 1953.

___

TRADE

TRUMP on his trade dispute with China: "I'll be honest, we are getting hundreds of millions of dollars brought into our country. We've never gotten 10 cents. We are getting hundreds of billions of dollars coming into our country." — remarks to reporters Thursday.

THE FACTS: This is not true. The tariffs he's raised on imports from China are primarily if not entirely a tax on U.S. consumers and businesses.

i copied the whole thing - not cherry pickin

Quote from: space otter on May 27, 2019, 02:37:32 PM

really scary politics

So lemme ask you something:

The DemonRats want OPEN BORDERS. Whe we came to the USA I had to have a job lined up, had to prove I had no serious criminal record and had to prove I had no communicable disease BEFORE I was allowed to enter.  Even then the process took FIVE YEARS and we hit the immigration loto before being processed normally. As it happened my ex wife had a single shop lifting charge on her record  That was enough to get her blocked from entry  the year was 1993.

The consul said what I could do was enter the USA at Niagara Falls with the two kids and get them nationalised, then apply to have wife enter as she was the mother.  That did work, took additional months but we did it'

The current swarm of illegals BURN thier papers and carry all sorts of criminal records and diseases that will bury this nation.

My question: ARE YOU REALLY OKAY WITH THIS?

The DemonRats have ALL voted to allow ILLEGAL MIGRANTS to VOTE  No ID required, because they know they will vote Democrat...

My question: ARE YOU REALLY OKAY WITH THIS?


The House has just forced several banks to hand over Trump's personal business financial records.  Maxine Walters SPECIFICALLY is interested in finding ANY details of him trading with RUSSIA... Seriously

Well's Fargo and TD Bank have already complied.. Now I have to ask myself if tey really care about their customers PRIVACY and SECURITY

My question: ARE YOU REALLY OKAY WITH THIS?

AOC comes up with this "Green New Deal" saying they will get rid of cars airplanes and cows because the planet will die in 12 YEARS. Just about everything she says is just plain stupid, yet she sits on Congress privy to all our secret data. She throughs drunken fits and films then on her cell for all to see...

My question: ARE YOU REALLY OKAY WITH THIS?

Omar uses every chance she gets from her seat in congress to make fun of the USA, show her hate for Israel, and makes PRO ISLAM remarks when ever she can. Wanted "my emperor" :P to release a dangerous member of the Muslim brotherhood. She is a TRAITOR by any discription of the word, yet sits on Congress privy to all our secret data.

My question: ARE YOU REALLY OKAY WITH THIS?

If you answer yes to all of the above... we no longer have a talking point :P

you are correct we do not have a 'talking point'
we didn't have one before either
..but not for any of the reasons you listed

we aren't going to change each other's minds

there are many other things worth the space here

Quote from: space otter on May 28, 2019, 04:41:47 AM
we aren't going to change each other's minds

I wasn't trying to change your mind, I was genuinely interested in your thoughts on those specific questions

But for some very odd reason if you question any Liberal on these specific items, they refuse to answer, and that is very sad...  I thought YOU at least were a cut above it and could at least give me a logical reason why those policies are okay. I was wrong.......... pity that

Quotethere are many other things worth the space here

Do not concern yourself with space :P Our server has UNLIMITED and UNLIMITED traffic. But some of us actually want this country to survive  and not end up in Civil War V 2.0

Quote from: zorgon on May 28, 2019, 03:20:39 AM
Whe we came to the USA I had to have a job lined up, had to prove I had no serious criminal record and had to prove I had no communicable disease BEFORE I was allowed to enter.  Even then the process took FIVE YEARS and we hit the immigration loto before being processed normally. As it happened my ex wife had a single shop lifting charge on her record  That was enough to get her blocked from entry  the year was 1993.

When did things change?

QuoteI thought YOU at least were a cut above it and could at least give me a logical reason why those policies are okay. I was wrong.......... pity that

bwhahahahaha
well you've been wrong before and lived so no real worries

poke all you want

QuoteI thought YOU at least were a cut above

i will not argue religion or politics with you
on a forum..
you wanna get a beer and go for it.. i'll meet ya


when it comes to either subject it goes more to our background and beliefs than to actual  dogma  in either

i have been searching for why we are at such a hate space by looking back at previous administrations.. there have been serious accusations from both sides to the other in power at the time
and  some have yelled but i do not recall such  bitterness toward a dissenting opinion
maybe i wasn't paying attention then and just living my  day-to-day life.
i dunno know

one thing we can agree on is that the sides are getting further apart and we may very well be looking at a different kind of civil war
i do not want to be here for that

i truly believe that we A L L love this country

Names and Locations of the Top 100 People Killing the Planet (http://names-and-locations-top-100-people-killing-planet)

"The earth is not dying, it is being killed, and those who are killing it have names and addresses." – Utah Phillips

Quote from: ArMaP on May 28, 2019, 07:48:50 AM
When did things change?

I haven't checked but I don't think they have for regular immigrants

But illegals and migrants can bypass all this

Quote from: zorgon on May 30, 2019, 12:40:29 AM
I haven't checked but I don't think they have for regular immigrants

But illegals and migrants can bypass all this

The key word for a lot of them is "refugees" from war torn countries; as for the illegals entering from the south they are supposed to be immediately deported...

supposed to be, but a large number don't get caught...

Quote from: space otter on May 28, 2019, 04:35:08 PM
i will not argue religion or politics with you
on a forum..

Wasn't gonna argue :P

I genuinely wanted an answer to those specific key points because I and many  others are scratching our heads trying to figure out how anyone is okay with those specific policies. It makes no sense that people who say they love the country would be supporting policies hell bent on destroying it. 

Quotei truly believe that we A L L love this country

I don't   I see idiots at the top of the chain making policies dangerous to our very existence..
Let 10's of thousands in illegally and give them free education and medical AND the right to get a drivers licence and VOTE?

How can this not destroy what we have?  Look the migrant camps in california  THOUSANDS of tents everywhere in prime areas  and 40,000 Guatemalan migrant on the way
But yeah we don't want to argue... :P

  It's just frustrating as hell that NOT ONE DEMOCRAT will answer the question and explain WHY they support it..

.... they would rather get triggered, foam at the mouth and scream some Trump insult :P

Quote from: zorgon on May 30, 2019, 05:36:24 AM
  It's just frustrating as hell that NOT ONE DEMOCRAT will answer the question and explain WHY they support it..

.... they would rather get triggered, foam at the mouth and scream some Trump insult :P

I have never seen so many people brainwashed and turned into zombies so quickly.

All they know is it's "racist" to not want open immigration but of course they can't explain it because they don't even understand it.  Under the tiniest bit of logical analysis there is no rationale for bringing race into it at all.  Mexico is a country not a race, and a country comprised of people of all sorts of genetics, and as well that people from all over the country are using the open border to let themselves in.  Race has nothing to do with it.  We are seeing an invasion force globally from third world countries into western countries full of people who will destroy it culturally and economically.  People who don't even like the culture they are invading.  They just see people not living in the same hell as them and they want it for themselves.  Can't blame them there but that doesn't mean we should let them in.  I mean, sorry you're living under a bridge and passing your time with meth but no you can't just enter my house with your grocery cart full of bicycle tires and begin living here and eating my food.  That government is complicit in Europe and now America shows there is a larger plan at play.  It would be interesting to see what people or organizations are encouraging these mass exoduses of "migrants".

Quote from: Titan on May 30, 2019, 09:48:34 AM
That government is complicit in Europe and now America shows there is a larger plan at play.  It would be interesting to see what people or organizations are encouraging these mass exoduses of "migrants".

Refugees entering Europe have dropped to much more manageable numbers, they have gone from 1,032,408 in 2015 down to 141,472 in 2018 and, this year, up to May 28, only 26,537.

Now "they" probably want to see what happens if they try the same in the US. :)

maybe I can clear something up for you

first off.. what makes you think I am a democrat..and what difference does it make if I am?
have you never heard of an independent?

second.. with the way those questions were shouted at me, personally .. like I was in charge of anyone differing from your point of view and the name calling besides – why would I want to continue ?


third you have made the assumption that I am in disagreement with you because of my vocal loathing of one individual
that's a pretty freaking HUGE assumption, don't ya think ! ?
oh btw that last question was rhetorical

there are and have been tons of things wrong so my question back to you is
what are YOU doing to change things beside yelling at someone on a forum

have you even written or called your state reps with your thoughts?
here's how ya can find them if, by chance, you would like to be vocal where it matters.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/NV

Launched in 2004, GovTrack helps everyone learn about and track the activities of the United States Congress. This is a project of Civic Impulse, LLC. GovTrack.us is not a government website.

About the Site | Contact Us

You are encouraged to reuse any material on this site. Hackers/journalists/researchers: See these open data sources.


https://www.usa.gov/state-government/nevada



I always sign my mail with A VOTER instead of yours truly and then my name...and I can tell you that
the local and state guys know who I am

you can vote can't you?

  Thor
what is Unconditional Love

imo
it is acceptance of others as they are without the need or desire to change them

but it doesn't mean that you give up who you are

i try to make any post i type  be as neutral as possible and still communicate my opinion

bwhahahahaha
i have lost count as to how many times this thread has gone sideways

it's all good

Space Otter:
Ratz!
I split the topic [at your suggestion] and somehow misplaced your post request.  :P

Quote from: thorfourwinds on May 30, 2019, 11:41:41 PM
Space Otter:
Ratz!
I split the topic [at your suggestion] and somehow misplaced your post request.  :P

:o ::) :P

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=11331.msg148335#msg148335 (http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=11331.msg148335#msg148335)

Quote from: space otter on May 30, 2019, 02:15:06 PM
first off.. what makes you think I am a democrat..and what difference does it make if I am?
have you never heard of an independent?

Yeah heard of those, not seen any enough around to be useful :P

Quotethat's a pretty freaking HUGE assumption, don't ya think ! ?
oh btw that last question was rhetorical

Would have taken less time to just answer the questions Yay or Nay an I would know where you stand :P

Quotethere are and have been tons of things wrong so my question back to you is
what are YOU doing to change things beside yelling at someone on a forum

Pointing out and posting as many of the issues as possible. I have changed several minds sind the Hillary Failure but having good info for those on the fence. Most people don't care about facts   they just go by which face is prettier, damn the torpedoes, Doesn't matter how much harm they do.  My friend in Ireland cut me off for supporting The Donald.  A while back she wrote me and said while I still disagree with you, I can't stand these new tactics.  She joined The Walk Away movement.  I don't have to get them to like Trump :P  Just Walk Away from the DemonRats and go ANYWHERE ELSE

Quotehave you even written or called your state reps with your thoughts?

Well I contacted Harry Reid (with Robert Redwood) and offered ourRemaisance group to help save the Artic Refuge..  got all the letters framed

Last time I contacted Harry was over him stealing Johns gold mine and attempting to take Bundy's mine. That one I was packin a colt 45 on the front lines (but mow my legs are bad and am heading for hospital tomorrow before they explode) so cowboy days are over

We Knighted then Governor of Nevada Kenny Guin and Sid Rogich for their help with mentally challenged kids here in las Vegas... that was fun

But re current politics? Nope no point writing to anyone as they all have their own corrupt agenda..  nd what to say? "Hey Harry!! Step down before you destroy the country? " :P (Marilee Lear did that  was planning to run for his seat.)  But now he did step down and they gave him $22 Million to be "Mr UFO Guy"

So what's the point? the current senators are all corrupt

Quoteyou can vote can't you?

Sure but I don't bother  my vote is useless  AOC and Omar having a seat in congress is proof of that. I am much more effective copy and reposting real info.

(https://scontent.flas1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59955157_318630738813524_3289673846105309184_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_oc=AQk7IlatdiUjW7d_Q1uCgp0iVOdP4InlwF5pAMcXfX5sBUtlRSWmsaNak8ms2BuasrY&_nc_ht=scontent.flas1-1.fna&oh=c0bf81ad59e418a4dd3baba6efdf67ca&oe=5D5B244F)

QuoteWould have taken less time to just answer the questions Yay or Nay an I would know where you stand

why does it matter where I stand?....besides my absolutely total loathing of the human  who is titled pres right now.. why do you care if i agree with Your rhetoric or not

QuotePointing out and posting as many of the issues as possible. I have changed several minds

yes.. well
that doesn't carry much weight  with me because  i have caught you cherry pickin too many articles to think that you want any more than folks to agree with YOUR point of view
so i don't feel the need to say yay or nay

i do - do my own research so i also make up my own mind without being swayed with name calling and yelling

my only comment on those women you are so ticked off about is that
imo they are a DIRECT response  to the liar-n-chief
if he didn't affect folks the way he does they would have never run for and gotten elected.....think on that for a second

i have no doubt you have been a decent human B T  (before t)..i think most of us are decent humans but the way we are approaching each other now is not the way it needs to be..
problems don't get solved by calling names and yelling

now just think on this for a sec
why are most of the tresspassers into the country taken to FOR PROFIT detention facilities...Gen Kelly has just gotten to run one
who is making the cash off of them.. and who set them up?
i know i've researched it
here's a small selection..but i won't cherry pick the info.. read the whole thing and if you don't smell a rat..get your nose checked
and isn't it interesting that untill this current pres the flow into was so much less...wonder who is inciting these folks to head north

i hope  your hospital visit is helpful i will send healing vibes your way because i do care

for your readin pleasure: a small sampling of info on for profit detention

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/immigration-detention-in-the-united-states-a-primer/

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/profiting-enforcement-role-private-prisons-us-immigration-detention

https://www.thedailybeast.com/dollar800-million-in-taxpayer-money-went-to-private-prisons-where-migrants-work-for-pennies

https://www.immigrantjustice.org/staff/blog/dhss-secret-detention-expansion-dangerous-immigrants-and-democracy

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/immigration/article228842904.html

follow the money

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-children/first-stop-for-migrant-kids-for-profit-detention-center-idUSKCN1Q3261

it's a long article but the money trail starts here

Quotethe facility is run by Comprehensive Health Services, Inc., a private, for-profit company with a growing line of business in housing immigrant children. In a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission last year, the firm's parent company, Caliburn International Corp., noted President Donald Trump's immigration policies were driving "significant growth."

https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/CLBR:US



see why are you shouting?
i'm trying to have a civil discourse with you
  and  there is always MORE TO THE STORY

Quote from: space otter on May 31, 2019, 04:48:36 AM
besides my absolutely total loathing of the human 

THAT for one :P I just cannot fathom this "absolutely total loathing" and I have yet to find anyone that can explain WHY they have this "absolutely total loathing"

Quoteyes.. well
that doesn't carry much weight  with me because  i have caught you cherry pickin too many articles to think that you want any more than folks to agree with YOUR point of view
so i don't feel the need to say yay or nay

"Life is a bowl of Cherries but some people only get the pits!"  I prefer the Cherries :P  Seems to me only logical to pick articles that support your point.  Do do any different just confuses people If you were an unbiased journalist you would report both side. If your trying to get YOUR point across of course you will Cherry pick the things that support you. Looka hashtags people like uing those but what good are they? The tag just goes to random articles that have no bearing on the point at hand  All those hashtags are WHY the world is so confused.

Naturally It is in your best interest to FACT CHECK your posts, but then Political Satire has ALWAYS been allowed to 'attack the opponent' (cartoons, memes), even in Soviet Russia, because they understood the peole needed a venting space

Quotei do - do my own research so i also make up my own mind without being swayed with name calling and yelling

yes you do but you use Huffington Post a LOT  a  VERY BIASED Trump hating website :P

Quotemy only comment on those women you are so ticked off about is that imo they are a DIRECT response  to the liar-n-chief if he didn't affect folks the way he does they would have never run for and gotten elected.....think on that for a second

"liar-n-chief" sounds like name calling :P Respect he office even if you hate the guy

::)

I disagree because they were hired to play the part by the JUSTICE DEMOCRATs  They have their own agenda and get seats that are not contended. Thank Zack Exley for that (former campaign worker for Bernie)

https://www.justicedemocrats.com/home/

Even Pelosi said:

Pelosi appears to take new jab at Ocasio-Cortez, says 'a glass of water' with a 'D' could win their districts" AOC's seat could have been won by a glass of water
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pelosi-a-glass-of-water-with-d-next-to-it-would-win-ocasio-cortezs-district

Quotei have no doubt you have been a decent human B T  (before t)..i think most of us are decent humans but the way we are approaching each other now is not the way it needs to be..
problems don't get solved by calling names and yelling

I don't call you names :P and the "yelling" is no different than THORS' Lavish Neon Sign posts

Quote
now just think on this for a sec why are most of the tresspassers into the country taken to FOR PROFIT detention facilities...Gen Kelly has just gotten to run one who is making the cash off of them.. and who set them up? i know i've researched it here's a small selection..but i won't cherry pick the info.. read the whole thing and if you don't smell a rat..get your nose checked

So your saying that these private prisons are flooding the country with disease ridden criminal migrant so the can make money?  Hmmm interesting   :P  i gues the American victims along the way are merely 'collateral damage"?

Quoteand isn't it interesting that until this current pres the flow into was so much less...wonder who is inciting these folks to head north

I HOPE your not suggesting you good friend Donald is doing that?

:o ::) :P

Quotei hope  your hospital visit is helpful i will send healing vibes your way because i do care

So do I the last one just made it  worse.  i will do a thread on it.. taking lap top this time

ah i get it.. well i guess we are back to agreeing to disagree but hey.. got lots of views..i guess that's the most important thing

well after a week of rain, a couple days at 3 inches the wind is blowing lightly and i am headed outside to start clean up..the place looks like a swamp....by the time it gets dry enough to mow the tractor won't be able to get thur it...what fun
later dude

mother earth is giving us all a taste of what is to come.. adjust or not

Quote from: zorgon on May 31, 2019, 07:45:58 AM
THAT for one :P I just cannot fathom this "absolutely total loathing" and I have yet to find anyone that can explain WHY they have this "absolutely total loathing"

I do not "absolutely total loath" him, but I don't like him, mostly because of the way he acts, like a mix between a bully and a snake oil salesman, two kinds of people I do not like.

Quit bashing my president.  I don't talk about any other presidents.  I don't like foreigners bashing someone they really don't know about.

Quote from: spacemaverick on June 01, 2019, 05:41:42 AM
Quit bashing my president.  I don't talk about any other presidents.

Just curious, how many foreign presidents do you know

QuoteI don't like foreigners bashing someone they really don't know about.

Though luck.  :P

We all have opinions about people we don't know, haven't we? I'm sure you have an opinion about me, and you know nothing about me, so why can't I have one?

Quote from: spacemaverick on May 24, 2019, 03:57:21 PM
It's like the illegals coming across our border illegally.  They are not screened and suddenly we have outbreaks of measles and other things.  Then the powers that be blame it on children not being vaccinated.  Some diseases up until unchecked migration suddenly surged then we had a problem.  We didn't have that before.

One of the largest measles outbreaks in Ney York, is in conservative Jewish enclaves with low vaccination rates.  Did people cross the border from Mexico and infiltrate conservative Jewish enclaves?

Going away now.  I don't care for the rampant xenophobia displayed here these days.

Quote from: ArMaP on June 01, 2019, 01:38:26 PM
Just curious, how many foreign presidents do you know
Though luck.  :P

We all have opinions about people we don't know, haven't we? I'm sure you have an opinion about me, and you know nothing about me, so why can't I have one?

Just tired of all the Trump bashing.  Not productive.  We all have opinions and you are entitled to yours.  Bashing other people instead of their policies is not accomplishing anything.  However, discussing those policies in a meaningful way with intelligent thinking is the way to go.  Those outside my country do not live here and only have a bias media from which they develop their opinions.  I live here and have for 66 years and I consider my country one of the last bastions of true freedom (my opinion of course).  I really have no opinion of you because I really don't know you.

Quote from: spacemaverick on June 01, 2019, 03:50:03 PM
Just tired of all the Trump bashing.  Not productive.  We all have opinions and you are entitled to yours.  Bashing other people instead of their policies is not accomplishing anything.  However, discussing those policies in a meaningful way with intelligent thinking is the way to go.  Those outside my country do not live here and only have a bias media from which they develop their opinions.  I live here and have for 66 years and I consider my country one of the last bastions of true freedom (my opinion of course).  I really have no opinion of you because I really don't know you.

  Beautiful!.........Gold at ya!   :D

no caps or large letters to make my point

sadly i have to agree with Shasta but also go a step further

this place isn't  for research anymore and should be renamed

the all white men trump-lovers bar

but that's probably too gay for here also

i truly believe that he (as the lead puppet) and his party have set a course to change this county to a dictatorship run by rich white men and we had better monitor and stop it before it's too late

it's an old trick where the folk are so taken or pissed off at one person we don't notice - till too late - exactly what is happening...
check some not so distance history of take overs





sigh


you boys have fun

i'll leave ya with this  by a respected author
who yes writes for huff post..OH MY

QuotePOLITICS 06/01/2019 07:06 am ET Updated 2 hours ago

Ex-Ethics Chief Tweets Very Long List Of Bad Signs From Donald Trump's Presidency
Walter Shaub urged Americans not to "underestimate the threat to our republic from within" with his lengthy Twitter thread.
By Lee Moran

The former head of the U.S. Office of Government Ethics urged the American public on Friday to pay careful attention to everything that's going on with President Donald Trump's administration.

"Heed the signs and don't underestimate the threat to our republic from within," tweeted Walter Shaub, who served in the high-ranking role under former President Barack Obama and then for six months under Trump until his resignation in July 2017.

In a 14-tweet thread, Shaub detailed the "signs" that should be noticed from Trump's time in the White House ― from the president's 10,000-plus lies since his inauguration to his controversial declaration of a national emergency in a bid to secure funds for his proposed wall on the U.S.-Mexico border.

Shaub has previously warned that the White House is currently suffering an "ethics crisis" that could make the U.S. look like "a kleptocracy."

Check out Shaub's full thread here:

Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Heed the signs and don't underestimate the threat to our republic from within:

-Trump obstructed justice
-A McConnell-packed SCOTUS says precedent can be changed more easily than previously thought
-AG Barr is an open partisan and slow-motion Saturday Night Massacre beneficiary

11.8K
8:22 PM - May 31, 2019
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6,204 people are talking about this

Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Replying to @waltshaub
-White House ignores congressional subpoenas, document requests
-Mnuchin is violating a law on turning over taxes to House
-Barr & Senate allies want to investigate officials who investigated Trump to retaliate against them and deter future efforts to hold him to the rule of law

2,887
8:22 PM - May 31, 2019
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Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Replying to @waltshaub
-State Dept is setting up a commission to supplant human rights with "natural law"
-An Inspector General found standing room only in border detention cells, with detainees standing on toilets to breathe
-children stolen from parents at the border are dying in internment camps

2,698
8:22 PM - May 31, 2019
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Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Replying to @waltshaub
-Trump cut resources for investigating domestic terrorists
-FBI reports a recent significant rise in white supremacist domestic terrorism
-evidence found of a white supremacist plot to add census Q to help gerrymander in ways "advantageous to Republicans and non-Hispanic whites"

2,561
8:22 PM - May 31, 2019
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Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Replying to @waltshaub
-Trump is still resisting setting up defenses against foreign election interference
-Trump's personal attorney solicited foreign govt investigation of current Trump political rival Biden
-AG Barr said something in a weird interview about investigating former Trump rival Clinton

2,454
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Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Replying to @waltshaub
-There's cause for concern Trump/Kushner personal interests may be influencing middle east policy
-Ignoring Congress, Trump declared fake emergency & abused authority to sell weapons to Saudi Arabia to continue its atrocities in Yemen, after it murdered a Washington Post reporter

2,511
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Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Replying to @waltshaub
-Trump declared fake emergency to get more power to ramp up activity at border
-ethics violations (and ethically dubious conduct not rising to a violation) occurring at an unprecedented rate among Trump appointees
-senior admin official says she doesn't care about an ethics law

2,352
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Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Replying to @waltshaub
-if impeached, Trump says he'll try to get SCOTUS to overturn the impeachment
-McConnell, who blocked Merrick Garland ostensibly because it was an election year, shamelessly hinted this week that he'd be willing to fill a SCOTUS position for Trump in an election year

2,421
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Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Replying to @waltshaub
-Trump is praising autocrats, undermining allies
-Tone of OLC's recent opinions has changed under Assistant AG Steven Engel, who was tied to one of the torture memos
-Military went to the border for Trump
-Military hid a ship to placate Trump
-Airborne seen wearing MAGA patches

2,343
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Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Replying to @waltshaub
-Trump admin & Graham inexplicably advocating war in Iran/Venezuela
-DOJ experimenting with new legal theory for prosecuting those who publish classified information (raising a question as to whether the theory will be limited to hostile foreign actors or expanded to journalists)

2,185
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Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Replying to @waltshaub
-some public voices are normalizing Trump admin conduct
-voicemail from Trump lawyer to Flynn shows a disturbing carrot/stick approach (or worse)
-Trump has seemed to dangle pardons to buy silence or worse
-Trump admin officials are violating records laws to conceal actions

2,311
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Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Replying to @waltshaub
-Trump said "Russia, if you're listening"
-Trump said "fine people" marched with nazis
-Trump has told over 10,000 false or misleading statements, per Washington Post
-Trump helped cover up Khashoggi murder, and Kushner's said to have offered advice to MBS on weathering the storm

2,328
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Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Replying to @waltshaub
-a foreign prince is reported to have said he has Kushner in his pocket (but denies saying that)
-Helsinki
-Trump's behavior is erratic and is marked by frequent lies, bizarre public outbursts, name-calling and confusion
-no press conferences, and no transparency

3,041
8:22 PM - May 31, 2019
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Walter Shaub
✔
@waltshaub
Replying to @waltshaub
-Trump allies in congress are either lying about the Mueller report or haven't read it
-Trump allies in congress are trying to prevent Mueller & others from testifying because they know their base hasn't read the report and right wing media has kept them from hearing about it

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RELATED COVERAGE

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/walter-shaub-donald-trump-threat-republic-signs_n_5cf24b85e4b0e346ce7eb5f0

Quote from: spacemaverick on June 01, 2019, 03:50:03 PM
Just tired of all the Trump bashing.  Not productive.

I agree, that's why that was the first time (I think) that I have stated my opinion about him.

To put things in a wider perspective, I don't like any of today's US politicians. I don't like most Portuguese politicians either, so it's not a "bash the foreigners" thing. :)

QuoteHowever, discussing those policies in a meaningful way with intelligent thinking is the way to go.  Those outside my country do not live here and only have a bias media from which they develop their opinions.

I also agree, and that's why I try to keep out of political threads.

QuoteI really have no opinion of you because I really don't know you.

OK. I can tell you I don't have an opinion about you either, as I don't think I know you enough for that. :)

Politics and religion...2 subjects that always creates havoc.

"this place isn't  for research anymore and should be renamed

the all white men trump-lovers bar"  Really?   Drop the mic...outta here.

Quote from: space otter on June 01, 2019, 04:26:58 PM
this place isn't  for research anymore

It depends on what you want to research, right? ;)