obama's health care passed.
better start saving money now, cause if i understand this correctly, americans are now going to be forced to get and pay for health care whether they have a job or not, and no matter how much they make at the job they do have. you can expect to see a tax on your yearly taxes for each person you are responsible for, or who you claim as deductions, if they are not paying for the insurance out of their own pockets. i think it's around 700 dollars, ramping up to 2500 dollars per year, per person, in taxes, job or no job.
somebody correct this if it's wrong, but this is what i'm seeing and hearing about the thing, which means people like amaterasu who don't even have a job, will have to get insurance or pay the tax, no alternative. and you will not be eligble for medicare or medicaid, unless you're already on it.
it's what they call socialized medicine. i thought we already had socialized medicine. people who were too poor could go on medicare and medicaid. we paid taxes on that and will still be paying taxes on that. this is getting crazy.
Heh. Blood from a turnip, I say. They can claim I have to pay - but what? Are They going to put Me in debtor's prison?
Oh. Wait. They just might. ACK!
Quote from: Amaterasu on June 28, 2012, 10:57:46 PM
Heh. Blood from a turnip, I say. They can claim I have to pay - but what? Are They going to put Me in debtor's prison?
Oh. Wait. They just might. ACK!
yep the irs has legal authority to have people arrested, so the only option is to save money to pay it so you don't get caught for tax evasion, or you can get health insurance.
Yeah. Save WHAT money??? If I have zero now, and have zero coming in... THEN what? I go to jail because I am not making money????
This universe is INSANE!
p.s. i don't think most companies will have group policies anymore, so you will be paying the standard rate of private health care insurance, which runs about 400 + per person a month. i think the insurance compaines that wanted this to happen so badly, had better have a plan in place to accomodate people who don't have a means to pay for health care or who make so little at their jobs, they can't afford private insurance
something's just not right about this. i don't think we're getting all the information.
Quote from: Amaterasu on June 28, 2012, 11:34:26 PM
Yeah. Save WHAT money??? If I have zero now, and have zero coming in... THEN what? I go to jail because I am not making money????
This universe is INSANE!
i was thinking about a way we could generate income here at prc.
i posted it in moderators. we could offer services as a research group by donation. they give whatever they can afford, and we each go and research it.
would that be something you would enjoy doing?
i thought we already had socialized medicine. people who were too poor could go on medicare and medicaid.
undo, Medicare is something that "workers" make payroll deductions for all of their working lives, and still it is far from free. Medicaid is for those who cannot pay, and for now the illegal aliens, who never pay.
There is a part "A" Medicare and a part "B". Part "A" "Medicare insurance" does not require additional cost, and covers inpatient care in skilled nursing facilities and hospitals. The part "B" "Medicare insurance" does require additional cost, and it pays for medically necessary services and supplies provided by Medicare. Part "B" covers outpatient care, doctor's services, therapists, and home health care.
CAN I SAY AGAIN, MEDICARE IS NOT FREE EVEN AFTER CONTRIBUTING TO IT THROUGH THE YEARS.
With Medicare parts A and B, all services under Medicare insurance must be approved by Medicare, for payment. And maximum payment by medicare is only 80% of the Medicare approved cost. So, that leaves 20% that somebody else must pay for - you and me!!!
There are numerous ways to deal with that 20% A primary way is to purchase a Medicare "supplement " policy. It is standard Medicare directed insurance, consisting of plans A thru J or K, with each plan being a little different in coverage, and different in cost.
FYI plan "F" supplement covers the total 20% , and also covers annual Medicare deductible.
There are numerous providers of Medicare supplements, and all have their own fees.
Just FYI, our total costs for Medicare part "B" and the Medicare supplement insurance is around $7,000 per year. Of course, it increases most every year.
Nope, Medicare is not free, even though it is always presented that way by the press, and as a result, younger citizens generally do not have a good understanding for how Medicare actually works.
Hope this might help some here!! ;D
might be a good idea to get on either medicare or medicaid now before this thing goes into action for real, unless they make it retroactively enforceable since the first voting, in which case, those people who joined after it was voted for, are out of luck.
Solution
(http://www.elizabethannedesigns.com/living/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/beverly-hillbillies-350x196.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/Animated-Flag-Canada.gif)
Quote from: undo11 on June 28, 2012, 11:35:13 PM
something's just not right about this. i don't think we're getting all the information.
Very insightful Undo, I think the whole thing is out of an Alinsky play
book. This has, since its passing years ago thrown the country into
Chaos. Could that have been the intention to start with, along with
the solialistist aspects?
I think so, and we have years before its actually implemented.
Just wait until those who thought they were going to get
free healthcare find out what is really going down!
Quote from: undo11 on June 28, 2012, 11:50:06 PM
might be a good idea to get on either medicare or medicaid now before this thing goes into action for real, unless they make it retroactively enforceable since the first voting, in which case, those people who joined after it was voted for, are out of luck.
As far as I know you can't just get on it. I just hit 60 and I need to wait to 64 to apply..
Unless there is something I missed. :-\
Had great coverage all my life with the security business but never once got sick or had an accident but every month it came out of the paycheck
Had excellent coverage with the Union in convention work. The employers paid that as long as you have enough hours in a month
When I started they had a bank so you could save extra hours during the peak season and use them in the slow season, and you could pay for the hours you were short
Then the economy took a dive... so there were a lot less hours to go around. At the same time they took away the bank and increased qualfication from 80 hrs a month to 120 hours a month. Well there are very few people in this industry who get 120 hours a month so effectivly they have cut the medical
Fortunately I was able to put my hernia operation and wife's knee replacements through before we lost it
So now we have zero coverage at a time we need it most. If I could tell young people ANYTHING it would be don't pay for company medical while your healty... put that money in a trust fund or something. That way when you really need it later, your covered
zorgon, I assume your solution is two part- - 1. Don't get sick! And 2. Get an RV, like yours in the pic!! :)) :)) :))
z
well one of them is for people when they get old, the other is for poor people. the one for poor people is our socialized medicine. not sure why we need another social medicine to go with the one we already have
As far as I know you can't just get on it. I just hit 60 and I need to wait to 64 to apply..
Unless there is something I missed.
zorgon right now, the starting age for going on Medicare is 65, and it can start the first month after turning 65.
So, you do have a full 5 years before you will be eligible. Of course some things - maybe Medicaid too - work with income levels. It is my understanding that "POVERTY LEVEL" definitions are based upon "income levels", and not on the basis of how much money, stocks, property, etc one has.
So, "if" that is true, then you just might can find a way to get in there with all of the others receiving free medical treatment, under Medicaid, etc. ;)
Quote from: undo11 on June 28, 2012, 11:39:53 PM
i was thinking about a way we could generate income here at prc.
i posted it in moderators. we could offer services as a research group by donation. they give whatever they can afford, and we each go and research it.
would that be something you would enjoy doing?
Enjoy? Probably not... Could I do it? Yeah. Would I do it? That depends on so many things. Will I do it just to make money to pay this tax but still be homeless and moneyless? I don't think so. Will I do it for enough to have a place, feed M'self, afford a vehicle and pay for insurance or the tax? In a heartbeat.
But... According to My friend, there are exemptions... If You have no money, You don't have to pay. (He just told Me that - don't know if it's true.) Also, states can opt out...
http://leanforward.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/26/12426700-lawrence-odonnel-the-individual-mandate-is-a-mirage?lite
Hope I spelt that correctly. My friend dictated the link to Me.
Quote from: rdunk on June 29, 2012, 12:23:23 AM
zorgon right now, the starting age for going on Medicare is 65, and it can start the first month after turning 65.
Yeah thought so but you have to apply three months or so before you hit 65 as I recall
QuoteSo, you do have a full 5 years before you will be eligible. Of course some things - maybe Medicaid too - work with income levels. It is my understanding that "POVERTY LEVEL" definitions are based upon "income levels", and not on the basis of how much money, stocks, property, etc one has.
Well that is a nother issue. The definition of 'poverty" Take food stamps for instance. Now the original idea was that if a working family ran on hard times (loss of job, illness) they could get food stamps so the family could eat while they found new work.
Well a while back after I left the union and before my pension cut in I was out of work So was my wife and daughter (still at home) so we tried to apply for food stamps to see the system. We don't need them, have a years supply in the pantry and freezers but I wanted to see how it worked.
Well we didn't qualify and were told because we had more than $2000.00 in the bank ... forget it Well yeah but what should I do sell the house for being in a bind for a short time? No thanks
But then every food stamp day you see the illegals driving Humvees and cadilacs filling shopping carts. How? They LIE but everyone that passes the local welfare offices sees it and shakes their head
So 'poor' is a matter of perspective. Go to any medical center in Vegas and you will see the system at work California is going bankrupt yet they give free medical to ILLEGALS two out of three babies covered in Calif are born to non residents
I see the same thing happening with this new system... the dishonest people will abuse it just like they do now and the honest tax payers will have to dig deeper
QuoteSo, "if" that is true, then you just might can find a way to get in there with all of the others receiving free medical treatment, under Medicaid, etc. ;)
I could I could play the game and buck the system...
But then my armor would get rusty :D
And if I have serious issues, I can zip up to Canada :P
At least they have to cover any life threatening issues here :D
Quote from: Amaterasu on June 29, 2012, 12:37:47 AM
Also, states can opt out...
{{{picks up phone to yell at Senator}}}
Go Nevada!!! We don't have state income tax either... those evil casinos pay that for us :D
And give you a free drink or buffet just for casching your paycheck :D
ama
that's interesting. on a t s, the articles coming out about it today say that the individual mandate thingy stands but will be called a tax.
Quote from: zorgon on June 29, 2012, 01:03:59 AM
{{{picks up phone to yell at Senator}}}
Go Nevada!!! We don't have state income tax either... those evil casinos pay that for us :D
And give you a free drink or buffet just for casching your paycheck :D
lol that does it, we're moving to nevada
http://apnews.myway.com//article/20120628/D9VMEL600.html (http://apnews.myway.com//article/20120628/D9VMEL600.html)
Quote"The federal government does not have the power to order people to buy health insurance," he said in a part of his opinion that the liberal justices did not join. But his crucial bottom line was: "The federal government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance."
Typical double-speak.
QuoteThere's also an added safety net for all Americans, insured and uninsured. Starting in 2014, insurance companies will not be able to deny coverage for medical treatment, nor can they charge more to people with health problems. Those protections, now standard in most big employer plans, will be available to all, including people who get laid off, or leave a corporate job to launch their own small business.
Seniors also benefit from the law through better Medicare coverage for those with high prescription costs, and no copayments for preventive care. But hospitals, nursing homes, and many other service providers may struggle once the Medicare cuts used to finance the law really start to bite.
What good is insurance if there are no medical providers?
QuoteIllegal immigrants are not entitled to the new insurance coverage under the law, and will remain one of the biggest groups uninsured.
hmmmm....
J
Quote from: undo11 on June 29, 2012, 01:12:59 AM
lol that does it, we're moving to nevada
Its HOT out here...
But maybe hubby can get a transfer to Groom Lake division :D
Did I mention its HOT out here?
::)
it's hot in florida too, just with more humidity. lol but the flowers and fruit are awesome. :D
yeah, i've been to nevada , las vegas area, in the summer and it's
so hot you need gloves to open your car door
lady jae
QuoteIllegal immigrants are not entitled to the new insurance coverage under the law, and will remain one of the biggest groups uninsured.
ohmygosh, that sounds like trouble just waiting to happen.
Quote from: undo11 on June 29, 2012, 01:50:54 AM
lady jae
ohmygosh, that sounds like trouble just waiting to happen.
I don't expect that provision to last long at all. Or perhaps, in light of all the free services available to illegal immigrants, it doesn't need to apply to them.
J
Quote from: zorgon on June 29, 2012, 01:29:13 AM
Its HOT out here...
Official high for today: 106 deg...but wait, there's more! 106-Fri, 104-Sat, 102-Mon, 101-Tues...I'm sure those are going to be adjusted upward as today's forecast started out lower.
Its 8:13pm here and still 100deg. I've had this big ugly dog inside for a few days now..he makes a pretty good footstool..lol
J
Quote from: undo11 on June 29, 2012, 01:09:42 AM
ama
that's interesting. on a t s, the articles coming out about it today say that the individual mandate thingy stands but will be called a tax.
Seems the "mandate" was eviscerated. If You can't afford it, You can apply to have the Feds pay half. If You don't pay Your half, They'll fine You less than $100. If You don't pay the fine it specifically states They cannot imprison You, cannot put a lien on Your property. In short... They can not make You pay or punish You.
Yeah, the "mandate" is there - but really does nothing.
Flow chart (full size) for new healthcare law:
http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/34996270?access_key=key-1gx3a4sfjw98wuzb0p4r (http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/34996270?access_key=key-1gx3a4sfjw98wuzb0p4r)
Quote...the new law creates 68 grant programs, 47 bureaucratic entities, 29 demonstration or pilot programs, 6 regulatory systems, 6 compliance standards and 2 entitlements....
...The HHS czar, Kathleen Sebelius, has 2200 references in the law and 600 new authorities which cannot be challenged...
...Buried deep in the law are 19 special sections that cannot be challenged by the courts or any regulatory system. What the public is being sold and what the law actually has are 2 totally different things...
...16,500 new IRS agents to police the law and an explosion of jobs in the HHS Department with probably no jobs created in the private sector...
source: http://dailybail.com/home/obamacare-complicated-check-out-the-flow-chart.html
J
Graft and enforcement. Well, I was just listening to that Lawrence O'Donnel (My friend brought it up on His computer) - He clearly did NOT focus on the grist of the bill, did He?
Quote from: Amaterasu on June 29, 2012, 03:11:52 AM
Graft and enforcement. Well, I was just listening to that Lawrence O'Donnel (My friend brought it up on His computer) - He clearly did NOT focus on the grist of the bill, did He?
This is truly scary stuff. The more I read, the more I see that it is going to send our national debt into unreadable numbers.
Every other word is "tax". I thought Mr. Obama promised to control taxes affecting lower/middle class America! As far as that goes, there is no more "middle class". We are now a nation of rich and poor...with the rich getter richer from the backs of the poor.
J
Quote from: Lady Jae on June 29, 2012, 02:14:12 AM
Official high for today: 106 deg...but wait, there's more! 106-Fri, 104-Sat, 102-Mon, 101-Tues...I'm sure those are going to be adjusted upward as today's forecast started out lower.
Same here 108°81° today but dropping 106°81° 106° 79° 104° 79° And July is coming :o
Quote from: Lady Jae on June 29, 2012, 03:29:15 AM
I thought Mr. Obama promised to control taxes affecting lower/middle class America!
Seems he
LIED >:(
Quote from: zorgon on June 29, 2012, 03:42:02 AM
Seems he
LIED
>:(
GASP! NOOOOO. A person in such an office of authority would never lie to his kingdom...umm, err...country.
J
Quote from: zorgon on June 29, 2012, 03:40:52 AM
Same here 108°81° today but dropping 106°81° 106° 79° 104° 79° And July is coming :o
Oh my, July :P August and September are almost unbearable here too.
I hope the power grid can hold up!
J
And the biggest loser in today's court decision was the Constitution of the United States. Regardless of what the four leftist judges, + John Roberts decided, time will show that this decision does violate the constitution.
Already, one Constitutional lawyer has described this decision as being "lawless", with Roberts being pretty much "incoherent", in parts of the majority decision.
I think it rather interesting, that the four minority justices wanted to throw our the whole thing, not just a little piece it.
What is really funny about this decision is, the Constitution clearly describes what kinds of taxes can be levied. And this thing Roberts now calls a tax, is certainly in no way, within the bounds of Constitutionality.
We the people are in a really screwed up situation. Not only is our President committing lawless acts (disregarding the existing laws of the country), so it seems also is the Supreme Court, as it basically ignores Constitutional specifics.
The only way to start a change for the better, is to not vote for Obama in November 2012!!
Quote from: Lady Jae on June 29, 2012, 03:48:30 AM
I hope the power grid can hold up!
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/yikes.gif)
{{{looks for pennies under carpet to buy generator}}}
this whole thing..the health care bs
the hot hot temps..and the deep rain
it all makes me think of school
where you got a bunch of quizes before the big test
Quote from: zorgon on June 29, 2012, 03:42:02 AM
Seems he
LIED
>:(
But... But... But... Politicians
NEVER do
THAT!!!!!
Quote from: rdunk on June 29, 2012, 03:55:43 AM
The only way to start a change for the better, is to not vote for Obama in November 2012!!
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/Vault/Omama.png)
Yeah... But a vote for Romney is a vote for the same o' same o'. We need a RADICAL change - off in a direction away from this one system with the illusion of two parties.
Um... The Ethical Planetarien Party, anyOne?
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=604.msg5257#msg5257
I don't really know the exact situation in your country, but I can tell you
the Obama's system is what we have here in France since ww2, we call it
" securite sociale " (yeah, sociale, as socialist somewhere...)
And it is now completely falling in bankrupt : we have to pay each month
more and more ( workers and firms) and the government cannot pay hospitals
This system avoid all individual responsibility, we are back right to sovietic system !
And you all know how it end :)
Hope y'll soon get some Ron Paul in White House, so that you can stay as
the most free democratic people on Earth !
At this point Amaterasu, regardless of what we all might prefer, one of two people will be elected for President - either Romney, or Obama. No person is perfect in every way, to lead this country, and that is who we are to be voting for - someone to lead this country toward all of the good things this country stands for, with we the people in charge!
Obama has clearly proven during the past 3 1/2 years, that he absolutely is not capable of doing that. He promised that he could, and said, "if he didn't, he would be "one-term" President.
I do believe that Romney will take up the challenge, and will be a surprise to many. The first day in office he says he will go after doing away with Obamacare! That will be a great start!!
Well. he hasn't, so we absolutely need to hold him to that "promise" - his being a one term President, if he failed to deliver on the economy and debt reduction!!!!!!!
Romney or Obama?
Shemp or Larry?
Good grief, would we like to catch malaria, or hepatitis?
The rock bottom of choices for president in all of history?
Maybe not, but close!
Who would be our candidate for the president of the EPP?
Argh, our hands are tied!
Le
Quote from: rdunk on June 29, 2012, 05:17:03 AM
At this point Amaterasu, regardless of what we all might prefer, one of two people will be elected for President - either Romney, or Obama. No person is perfect in every way, to lead this country, and that is who we are to be voting for - someone to lead this country toward all of the good things this country stands for, with we the people in charge!
Obama has clearly proven during the past 3 1/2 years, that he absolutely is not capable of doing that. He promised that he could, and said, "if he didn't, he would be "one-term" President.
I do believe that Romney will take up the challenge, and will be a surprise to many. The first day in office he says he will go after doing away with Obamacare! That will be a great start!!
Well. he hasn't, so we absolutely need to hold him to that "promise" - his being a one term President, if he failed to deliver on the economy and debt reduction!!!!!!!
No. We are "voting" (the proprietarily programmed "voting" machines are) for which puppet on which hand of the beast "wins." Can I place a contingent bet? I bet that if Romney is the chosen puppet (by Us or by the beast through the "voting" machines), than indeed, Romney WILL surprise Those who voted for Him, just as Obama surprised many who voted for Him.
I bet He continues to degrade this country towards fascism, with some cosmetic pandering (just like Obama did).
These men in the White House are NOT leading Us. They are chosen by the beast, and do its bidding. If Obama "wins," in the end, it will look EXACTLY like it would if Romney won. More debt, more slavery, less freedom, less Constitution, one step (or many) towards the FEMA camps. More fascism. More 1984. More Nazism. A Brave New World. A dawn of a new day. A new world order.
16,000 more IRS agents. And Romney will NOT repeal ObamaCare just as Obama did NOT repeal the "Patriot" act.
Mark My words.
Quote from: zorgon on June 29, 2012, 04:23:36 AM
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/yikes.gif)
{{{looks for pennies under carpet to buy generator}}}
What size ya need, Zorgon 8500, 10000, 15000 watts?
Come and get it, Ive got several...I live in Florida!
I just hope they start when I need them :o
Le
Amaterasu, for whatever reason, I think you are kidding yourself, if you really believe what you are saying. Of course, you are entitled to believe as you wish, but.......that doesn't make it happen.
Romney has nothing to hide! He has spent much of his life serving people in a host of situations, with of it including him not taking any salary for his services. He has no hidden agenda, as you seem to suspect. Whereas, Obama, on the other hand, does have an agenda, and he has done his best to keep it a secret. But his actions have more than revealed it to us, during this past 3 1/2 years
However, there is really nothing new about Obama, for those of us who saw through his facade long before the 2008 election. But, unfortunately many even then refused to see him for who he really was, and now are living to regret it.
There is significant differences between these two candidates. Get informed with the truth, so you can make some good decisions for the future of this country!
I am going to agree to disagree. I have watched things deteriorate now for decades and the pattern is clear. The GOP ensured Romney won - RP took the states where voting machines were not used, despite much evidence of fraud - and it fits in with the pattern.
Every four years, if the beast has used the puppet harshly, the "other" party wins - with glorious promises, and the people believe them. Back and forth, yet the agenda is advanced, every time, no matter who is in.
And there is Romney who is connected to the People as much as fried egg on teflon (buying companies and sucking them dry and dead, dumping the employees out unemployed to fend as They might...). Somehow, I can't see Him being any better.
But You go ahead and believe if it comforts You. [smile]
Quote from: Littleenki on June 29, 2012, 05:58:46 AM
What size ya need, Zorgon 8500, 10000, 15000 watts?
Well I have three freezers. That's all I really need them for and maybe a small AC or swamp cooler
The rest I am okay on with the medieval stuff. But the freezers ... would really suck to loose those
Quote from: Amaterasu on June 29, 2012, 04:51:34 AM
We need a RADICAL change
Well yeah but Ron Paul quit tossed in with Romney >:(
And never heard of those others
Quote from: Littleenki on June 29, 2012, 05:37:49 AM
Argh, our hands are tied!
May I suggest a Historical Solution?(http://www.practicalstate.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Revolutionforall.jpg)
The Two Most Important Rules For The Revolution (Take the Poll!) (http://www.practicalstate.com/2011/11/20/important-rules-revolution-take-poll/)(http://www.practicalstate.com/wp-content/themes/thesis_183/custom/rotator/Ron1.jpg)
Okay so there ya have it... I just PINGED every NSA CIA DIA etc listener out there :D
I'm all for revolution as long as it is peaceful, fought in ideas alone, and includes the Abundance Paradigm.
Quote
Obamacare law contains 20 new or higher taxes on American families and small businesses
Taxpayers are reminded that the President's healthcare law is one of the largest tax increases in American history.
Obamacare contains 20 new or higher taxes on American families and small businesses.
Arranged by their respective effective dates, below is the total list of all $500 billion-plus in tax hikes (over the next ten years) in Obamacare, where to find them in the bill, and how much your taxes are scheduled to go up as of today:
Full List of Obamacare Tax Hikes: http://www.atr.org/full-list-obamacare-tax-hikes-a6996#ixzz1zBx2ZHh8
Lovely!
J
The End of Entropy describes the solution - suppressed by the THRIVE movement!
Amaterasu said, "And there is Romney who is connected to the People as much as fried egg on teflon (buying companies and sucking them dry and dead, dumping the employees out unemployed to fend as They might...). Somehow, I can't see Him being any better"
Aamaterasu, the comment about Romney, relative to "sucking companies dry and dead" is purely Democratic political hogwash. If you will take the time to study his background with Bain Capital, you will find it actually quite the reverse. Sure, Bain is in the bisuness of making money for its investors, but even former democratic President Bill Clinton said that the democrats were out of line with what they were saying about Romney and Bain Capital.
I have even read accounts of steel workers who said that while their company did go bankrupt, with Bain involved, that with Bain they were probably able to stay open and keep their jobs 10 years longer that they would have otherwise.
Like I said before, it is the truth that is important, and you will absolutely not get the truth from the "main stream media". They are totally "in-bed" with Obama, and even refuse to publish news of extreme interest to us, if it is critical or damaging for Obama. That has been shown time and time again, over thes past several years.`
Whether we agree or disagree is not so important. What is important is the future of this country.
Member "Guerande" made a reply to this post that hasn't received any comment. That would be reply #39, on page 3. He lives in France, and what he said should cause all of us to sit up and think about what is going on right here in America.
For convenience and reminder, I an including his statements again, here!!!
Guerande said, "I don't really know the exact situation in your country, but I can tell you
the Obama's system is what we have here in France since ww2, we call it
" securite sociale " (yeah, sociale, as socialist somewhere...)
And it is now completely falling in bankrupt : we have to pay each month
more and more ( workers and firms) and the government cannot pay hospitals
This system avoid all individual responsibility, we are back right to sovietic system !
And you all know how it end
Hope y'll soon get some Ron Paul in White House, so that you can stay as
the most free democratic people on Earth" !
Well... I get My news from the web - and not at any MSM site except when I happen to stumble in. Maybe I wound up on the wrong site. Still, such glowing things have been said about many - and the agenda marches on.
Quote from: rdunk on June 29, 2012, 03:55:43 AM
The only way to start a change for the better, is to not vote for Obama in November 2012!!
;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYIAgnuLXyY
Just a few thoughts from a newbie:
Half our tax money apparently goes to the Pentagon (mostly for black projects) for the stated purposes of 'national security'. While the Paranoid Pentagon is slavishly worried about 'terrorists' people back home are not feeling so secure, since an awful lot of them are unemployed and have no access to health care. Don't even get me started on Dubya's still unfunded wars. It costs a million dollars a year to put some grunt kid from the south of Cleveland in a uniform and send his sorry ass over to Afghanistan or wherever we're bombing 'insurgents' AKA the civilians this week. Aren't there better ways to spend that money?
If they're going to arrest people for not buying health insurance, I hate to break this to the brainiacs in Congress, but that ALSO happens to cost money straight out of federal or local coffers (who as we know are broke, see above). And there's health care in jail although I doubt it's of the stellar variety. There's also free food and a free bed and heat, etc. Might look pretty good to someone whose other option is under a bridge or in a tent city or a shelter.
'15,000 new IRS agents' costs money also. What if that money was spent instead on actual, you know, health care provisioning, and training of new doctors and auxiliary staff, and clinics in smaller towns?
And maybe someone would like to do the math on, say, 100,000,000 working-age adults divided by 15,000 IRS agents and tell me exactly how many of that 100m are going to be audited on a yearly basis? It's laughable on it's face but par for the course with IRS style scare tactics. (And oh, by the way, nice IRS peoples? Come to my door to arrest me for tax evasion or 'not paying a fine' or whatever else your tiny little brain dreams up and I'LL GIVE YOU A REAL REASON TO ARREST ME... ). Once you get past that large dog, there's several loaded weapons waiting for you. Something tells me recruiting for these positions won't be as easy as the guvmint thinks, even in hard times. The wimps they'll hire won't do any work past a few phone calls and a few letter writings a day. I've found mail from the IRS is eminently ignorable. They don't follow up on things worth a bloomin' damn... in fact, like the rest of the federal government, they can hardly answer their phones, much less enforce a ridiculous law.
And how many people are going to just say fuggit! and stop working, or work under the table to qualify for the lowest common denominator coverage and outlay of monies?
And finally, what part of stupid doesn't understand that EVERY LAW COSTS MONEY. Once it's on the books, you have to enforce it which requires of a legion of personnel, all highly paid. Pass enough laws and you not only have a fascist society where everyone is a potential criminal, but you have a breakdown of law and order, the very thing you're trying so hard to control. You end up with murderers and rapists running around free because they're too much trouble to capture, and pot smokers getting 10 years hard time cuz they're easy to chase down for the lazy cops...
Ah, but the war profiteers are laughing all the way to the bank - or wherever They're keeping Their stash these days.
As far as taxes, our tax money already goes to pay for the charity care that hospitals are required to provide to unisured patients. Some people have refused to pay for medical insurance, and have then required very high cost, emergency care. Or, like my friend S, have required expensive emergency care while waiting for medical benefits to kick in at the new job. The family had to move back here from Las Vegas to even have jobs, so it wasn't really a choice. S had to file for bankruptcy after requiring bilateral stents for kidney stones. On the plus side, emergency rooms can't refuse treatment because of a patient's inability to pay. That would be an EMTALA violation. Nor can insurance companies authorize treatment, then refuse to pay. That used to happen a lot.
Shasta
Quote from: FrozenAlchemy on July 01, 2012, 08:42:44 PM
Half our tax money apparently goes to the Pentagon (mostly for black projects) for the stated purposes of 'national security'.
Let me ask you (and everyone else) something....
How much do you pay in taxes annually? Ever thought this through?
No I don't want a figure :P Just think about it
In FY 2009, the Federal Reserve cannot account for 9 TRILLION Dollars alone... that is about $30,000 for every man woman and child in the United states
When was the last time you paid $30,000 in taxes?
The Pentagon alone
1.3 Trillion FY 1999 unaccounted for
1.6 Trillion FY 2000 unaccounted for
2.3 Trillion FY 2001 unaccounted for
That's a few I have figures on and that is not counting running any other government programs
Does anyone here really think all that money is coming from tax payers? Do the math. It doesn't come close to adding up
So is that money actualky unaccounted for, or is it more like "we don't feel like accounting for it, now sit down and shut up?"
Shasta aka The bitchy calico