https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ODQ-Un5Uo
is this an example of a guy who can admit when his wrong ? :D Presidential that
was that your point Pimander ?
funbox
not even a ruffle for good behavior ? :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NwD0y8UsIY
funbox
Trump leads a racist conspiracy aimed at undermining the first African American president. It turns out he was wrong.
He has not apologised which is what a real man would do if he had wrongly made such accusations so don't tell me he is fit to be President. He was asked by a journalist whether he would apologise to the President and twice ignored the question.
If that isn't cowardly enough he falsely blames someone else for starting the rumours!
Trump admits Obama was born in U.S., but falsely blames Clinton for starting rumors (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/09/16/trump-admits-obama-was-born-in-u-s-but-falsely-blames-clinton-for-starting-rumors/)
Pathetic!
Quote from: Pimander on September 16, 2016, 08:50:28 PM
Trump leads a racist conspiracy aimed at undermining the first African American president. It turns out he was wrong.
He has not apologised which is what a real man would do if he had wrongly made such accusations so don't tell me he is fit to be President. He was asked by a journalist whether he would apologise to the President and twice ignored the question.
If that isn't cowardly enough he falsely blames someone else for starting the rumours!
Trump admits Obama was born in U.S., but falsely blames Clinton for starting rumors (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/09/16/trump-admits-obama-was-born-in-u-s-but-falsely-blames-clinton-for-starting-rumors/)
Pathetic!
whats Rudi going on about then ? :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4xfX8xNU0I
im sure i heard about this years ago , Alex jones and co blabbering on about it etc etc :D
funbox
It was actually The Clinton Campaign that started the
birther story, a campaign staffer even admitted this
on cable news today.
Chickens coming home to roost, ironic.
Quote from: Pimander on September 16, 2016, 08:50:28 PM
Trump leads a racist conspiracy aimed at undermining the first African American president. It turns out he was wrong.
He has not apologised which is what a real man would do if he had wrongly made such accusations so don't tell me he is fit to be President. He was asked by a journalist whether he would apologise to the President and twice ignored the question.
If that isn't cowardly enough he falsely blames someone else for starting the rumours!
Trump admits Obama was born in U.S., but falsely blames Clinton for starting rumors (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/09/16/trump-admits-obama-was-born-in-u-s-but-falsely-blames-clinton-for-starting-rumors/)
Pathetic!
As I recall, Obama's own grandmother said that Obama was born in Kenya! :o
I couldn't care less what other people said. Trump was at the heart of it. If he can be seduced by racist BS like that then he is not fit to govern. I expect that kind of nonsense from Alex Jones. Alex Jones is not fit for President either for obvious reasons. ::)
As I expected, you ignored my point. He made accusations he now admits were wrong. He is not man enough to at the same time to apologise to the person in question. I expect when he realises he will get endless media pressure he might apologise EVENTUALLY. POSSIBLY! Cowardice.
And now you are trying to tell me he is lying when he says Obama was born in the USA? LOOOOOOOOOL :0
So is he a liar or a coward?
Personally, I have not spent time looking into anything
Trump says, it is not worth my time to sort through
the media lies, and disinformation.
I will say that this has been the worst election
season I recall in my lifetime due to the corruption,
and the media and government coverups.
Quote from: Pimander on September 16, 2016, 09:14:36 PM
I couldn't care less what other people said. Trump was at the hear of it. If he can be seduced by racist BS like that then he is not fit to govern. I expect that kind of nonsense from Alex Jones. Alex Jones is not fit for President either for obvious reasons. ::)
As I expected, you ignored my point. He made accusations he now admits were wrong. He is not man enough to at the same time to apologise to the person in question. I expect when he realises he will get endless media pressure he might apologise EVENTUALLY. POSSIBLY! Cowardice.
what racist bullsiht ?
you lost me on that
and the rest im not even sure who its directed at ?
cowerdice is to profer a appology, on tv for everyone to see, insincere to do so i would have thought , like it was done to garner approval from voters ..
real, would be to go visit the person grieved and tell no other about it.
Pim.. dont get caught up in the hype frood
funbox
Quote from: Pimander on September 16, 2016, 09:14:36 PM
I couldn't care less what other people said. Trump was at the heart of it. If he can be seduced by racist BS like that then he is not fit to govern. I expect that kind of nonsense from Alex Jones. Alex Jones is not fit for President either for obvious reasons. ::)
As I expected, you ignored my point. He made accusations he now admits were wrong. He is not man enough to at the same time to apologise to the person in question. I expect when he realises he will get endless media pressure he might apologise EVENTUALLY. POSSIBLY! Cowardice.
And now you are trying to tell me he is lying when he says Obama was born in the USA? LOOOOOOOOOL :0
My view is..........Trump saying this is purely another political maneuver, and not necessarily reflective what he actually may think. His saying it makes absolutely no difference to me, one way or the other. Obama has demonstrated by his actions that he is the most un-American President that has ever served, whatever is his birthplace. The facts of his actions do not lie, and recorded history will powerfully reflect that truth.
One thing for sure, what Trump says about this has no impact upon whatever is the truth!! What it does do is actually - for the most part - take his prior stance on this off of the table for continual negative discussion during the rest of the campaign! His voters could not care less!!
Quote from: burntheships on September 16, 2016, 09:10:31 PM
It was actually The Clinton Campaign that started the
birther story,
Possibly but I doubt it because Trump can now sue the Washington Post for libel if that is the case. But even if so....
I have agreed with a lot of Trump's rhetoric, about invading Iraq, getting rid of corruption in politics etc. But I always had my doubts about a
white billionaire man in a suit saying he was anti-elite.
If he was anti-elite, surely he might throw his weight behind the black lives matter campaign? Perhaps he might not have long used his money to influence politicians? Or perhaps he might say he was wrong to do that? No.
But I still though there was a chance he might somehow be a better option than Clinton.
Not now. No way. If he admits he knows Obama is American and can't apologise to the first black Preesident Obama then he is a dick! Fu4k him.
Quote from: funbox on September 16, 2016, 09:20:51 PM
real, would be to go visit the person grieved and tell no other about it.
No. not if you publicly question whether a person has a right to be in their job and effectively accuse them of lying about their birth to be in office.
The key word above is PUBLICLY. You publicly make accusations you find are untrue then you PUBLICLY apologise. End of!
Quote from: Pimander on September 16, 2016, 09:43:23 PM
Possibly but I doubt it because Trump can now sue the Washington Post for libel if that is the case. But even if so....
I have agreed with a lot of Trump's rhetoric, about invading Iraq, getting rid of corruption in politics etc. But I always had my doubts about a white billionaire man in a suit saying he was anti-elite.
If he was anti-elite, surely he might throw his weight behind the black lives matter campaign? Perhaps he might not have long used his money to influence politicians? Or perhaps he might say he was wrong to do that? No.
But I still though there was a chance he might somehow be a better potion than Clinton.
Not now. No way. If he admits he knows Obama is American and can't apologise to the first black Preesident Obama then he is a dick! Fu4k him.
hmm a see you mentioned trumps color.. do you know the meaning of racism , its got nothing to do with ideology or religeon, simply color ,
but anyway im going to play the
(http://i.imgur.com/v0ZuPSQ.gif)
ism card so have a tantrum about that :D
ill let you know when i roll a six
funbox
Quote from: funbox on September 16, 2016, 09:50:23 PM
hmm a see you mentioned trumps color..
Yes I mentioned his colour. The elite in America are white.
Quoteso have a tantrum about that :D
I'm saying it how it actually is. Call it what you like.
QuoteThe key word above is PUBLICLY. You publicly make accusations you find are untrue then you PUBLICLY apologise. End of!
what has the approval of others got to do with the mending of trust between two human beings, or saying sorry to someone, why should we even know about such occurances?
anyway, ignoring the farce of it all , previous election campaigns have been far more venomous than this one.. but i guess you allready know that , what with your keen concern in american politics :D
interesting
funbox
Quote from: funbox on September 16, 2016, 10:04:38 PM
what has the approval of others got to do with the mending of trust between two human beings, or saying sorry to someone, why should we even know about such occurances?
I've already explained why above. The accusations were not made man-to-man, they were made in public. And it isn't just about trust between Trump and Obama which there will never be anyway.... It is a public thing... Sometimes I have to state something so bleedin' obvious I can't help but wonder.... :P ::)
Quoteanyway, ignoring the farce of it all , previous election campaigns have been far more venomous than this one.. but i guess you allready know that , what with your keen concern in american politics :D
I generally find American politics tedious because there is nothing to choose between the candidates. It is generally a choice between one neoliberal capitalist and a slightly more liberal neoliberal capitalist. ;D
This time was different because of Bernie Sanders.
QuoteYes I mentioned his colour. The elite in America are white.
there you go again.. :D
what has their color got to do with it ?, they could just about be any color and all colours...
they might even be being ,directed by Wicked Aliens, trying to get us to see beyong colou/r and shape .. Form even
funbox
QuoteI've already explained why above. The accusations were not made man-to-man, they were made in public. And it isn't just about trust between Trump and Obama which there will never be anyway.... It is a public thing... Sometimes I have to state something so bleedin' obvious I can't help but wonder.... :P ::)
and its just not a good enough reason , not personal enough, wherever it was said and whomever it was said infront of , sencerity come from a sincere human contact, 5 sences all working in overtime. not a media circus and a pressgang
see , if Hillary watched it on tv, you know yourself she's going to think he doesn't really mean it , she might even vocalise that to those around her .. all very farcical that way,, see ?
funbox
Quote from: funbox on September 16, 2016, 10:12:37 PM
there you go again.. :D
what has their color got to do with it ?, they could just about be any color and all colours...
That's the point. They could be any colour but they aren't. You can't oppose racism or elitism if you ignore it.
If said aliens did not recognise the differences between colours they could not encourage us to do that in the first place because they would not know we were doing it. :o :P
Quote from: Pimander on September 16, 2016, 10:18:40 PM
That's the point. They could be any colour but they aren't. You can't oppose racism or elitism if you ignore it.
so who are these white elite then ?who and what color are they in other countrys? no doubt colaborators of all colours
QuoteIf said aliens did not recognise the differences between colours
they're not superbright ?
Quotethey could not encourage us to do that in the first place because they would not know we were doing it
indeed, most likely because they not that bright.. or color blind :D
funbox
Pimander said, "If he was anti-elite, surely he might throw his weight behind the black lives matter campaign?"
I am surprised that you seem to not understand that the "black lives matter campaign" is just that, another let's change America campaign, funded by no less than George Soros and others, not really much different than was the Occupy Wall Street "campaign". The intent of these such "campaigns" is to fundamentally change the United States of America to being a leftist socialist aligned 3rd world country, like many if not most of the people-struggling countries around this world. Many, if not most, of the learned working black people of this country truly understand this, and speak out against such too!!!!
These "campaigns" are ugly scabs on the heart of America right now, and the great black people who are now here need to step up and help deal directly with putting this crap down (relative to the black lives matter thing) --- ALL LIVES DO MATTER!!
http://humanevents.com/2011/10/21/george-soros-funds-occupy-wall-street/
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/23896-hacked-documents-soros-funded-black-lives-matter
Quote from: rdunk on September 16, 2016, 10:27:32 PM
Pimander said, "If he was anti-elite, surely he might throw his weight behind the black lives matter campaign?"
I am surprised that you seem to not understand that the "black lives matter campaign" is just that, another let's change America campaign, funded by no less than George Soros and others, not really much different than was the Occupy Wall Street "campaign". The intent of these such "campaigns" is to fundamentally change the United States of America to being a leftist socialist aligned 3rd world country, like many if not most of the people-struggling countries around this world. Many, if not most, of the learned working black people of this country truly understand this, and speak out against such too!!!!
These "campaigns" are ugly scabs on the heart of America right now, and the great black people who are now here need to step up and help deal directly with putting this crap down (relative to the black lives matter thing) --- ALL LIVES DO MATTER!!
http://humanevents.com/2011/10/21/george-soros-funds-occupy-wall-street/
in the uk there was a big show from some subvergents at Heathrow airport, a bunch of White people invaded and handcuft themselves to some trolleys or something, strangly not one Black person amongst them, but they claimed to be from that organisation.. odd that , but im sure soros know's what the election results will do , hence the funding of them , and encouraging them to cause trouble etc .. race baiting at its finest , just like what happened when Sorros and his organisation went to Serbia... hmm racial tension much?
so when the elections over, the chance to bring in Martial law is ever greater..
i believe they're playing some sort of amplification card, coupled with a tech card..
tricky to see the full picture
funbox
Quote from: Pimander on September 16, 2016, 09:43:23 PM
Possibly but I doubt it because Trump can now sue the Washington Post for libel if that is the case. But even if so....
I have followed that issue since 2008 myself and have seen articles,
even from the Guardian on how Clinton's campaign was the one
who started the rumor, and circulated the photos. This does
not surprise me in the least, she is on video actually saying
"but he can't be" president, as if the news stories and
and admission from The Clinton Campaign are not enough
evidence already.
I could find those articles today, but not going
to waste my time. Clinton started it, and Obama
campaign complained about it, and called her
racist at the time. All of those articles are out
there too.
Quote
I have agreed with a lot of Trump's rhetoric, about invading Iraq, getting rid of corruption in politics etc. But I always had my doubts about a white billionaire man in a suit saying he was anti-elite.
If he was anti-elite, surely he might throw his weight behind the black lives matter campaign?
The Black Lives Matter campaign is funded by George Soros,
proof exists of this in the hacked DNC emails.
So, it is at it's heart astro turf. A smart person
would keep BLM as far away from them as possible.
I would agree if he now admit's he now believes
Obama was born in the U.S., as a man he should
own up to his mistake or rhetoric, and apologize.
As far as his past, well everyone has one, and
his is colorful to say the least.
Unearthed, Chris Matthews attacks Hillary Clinton
for her veiled birtherism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms4Ll12_RHU
Waaaaayyyy before Trump!
Quote from: rdunk on September 16, 2016, 10:27:32 PM
ALL LIVES DO MATTER!!
Obviously. ::)
But it is a campaign about how many black people have been killed relative to other ethnic groups and nobody has EVER been found guilty of an offence even when they are filmed committing the atrocity.
It is a just cause and one an anti-elitist should support. That is my opinion.
To defeat elitism you have to inclusive. It stands to reason. America looks like a divided and broken society. Trump's rhetoric is divisive and not helping.
And I have never seen a Clinton quote regarding a direct accusation that Obama wasn't born in USA. If she did start the rumours then she should apologise too. I'm not being partisan, I'm saying it how it is.
Whoever started the rumours, anyone who used it to publicly question the Presidents legitimacy - of any political party - owes the President AND the American people a public apology. No amount of playing the blame game will change that.
I am right about this and any neutral free from bias would agree!
Quote from: Pimander on September 17, 2016, 12:49:08 PM
Obviously. ::)
I'm not being partisan, I'm saying it how it is.
are you sure ? :D
funbox
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37394883
QuoteThe latest comments came just hours after Mr Trump was forced to reverse his long-held position that President Barack Obama was not born in the United States.
Speaking at a campaign event in Washington, he said: "President Barack Obama was born in the United States, period.
But he went on to accuse Mrs Clinton of starting the so-called birther controversy
"Hillary Clinton and her campaign of 2008 started the birther controversy. I finished it," he said.
There is no evidence to link Mrs Clinton to the birther conspiracy.
hmm the bbc seem to have lost there powers of investigation.
but then they sing the same tune as the mainstream media over the Atlantic..
not curious in anyway, shape or form that.
funbox
Quote from: funbox on September 17, 2016, 02:21:00 PM
hmm the bbc seem to have lost there powers of investigation.
So has Clinton actually accused Obama of not being born in the USA?
The members of Pegasus seem to have lost their powers of investigation too. People accusing her of doing it is not evidence she did it. If she did it it would be all over the media with the clip of Clinton accusing him because the Washington Post have printed that it is a false accusation. Well where is the proof she did it?
If she did do it then she should apologise. So should Trump but nobody has the fair mindedness to agree with me. Funny that. ::)
Funbox, almost every time you post, you seem to ignore my points and try to discuss the BBC or some other distraction. Yes the BBC are sometimes biased (mainstream media). That doesn't make my point in any way invalid. You asked me what my point was. My point is that Trump is admitting he has made false allegations publicly and is not man enough to apologise. Nobody has so far posted anything that indicated I'm wrong.
As I said, I saw the same thing on ATS. You make a fair point. If you are right everybody ignores your point.
So are you going to address my point and admit I'm right or continue to falsely create the impression that what Trump has done is OK so support for him is reasonable on this?
Quote from: Pimander on September 17, 2016, 02:40:07 PM
Funbox, almost every time you post, you seem to ignore my points and try to discuss the BBC or some other distraction. Yes the BBC are sometimes biased (mainstream media). That doesn't make my point in any way invalid. You asked me what my point was. My point is that Trump is admitting he has made false allegations publicly and is not man enough to apologise. Nobody has so far posted anything that indicated I'm wrong.
i addressed this way back, he should go see him personally and appologise , your method of a tv appology is as cold and insincere as you can get.
you think the BBC are a good thing? harbourours of Piedos and freaks , the whole News organisation is a sham that should have been closed down after the Saville scandal. i have no trust in them whatsoever
what points have you actually made ?
QuoteSo are you going to address my point and admit I'm right or continue to falsely create the impression that what Trump has done is OK so support for him is reasonable on this?
its fine by me , you could say i was from the moon and i wouldn't even acknowledge it , kinda weak really. and ide certainly say he was the lesser of two Evils
but then thats all down to preference in choas
Hillary?, well theres a long list of Choas behind her .. truely anything would be better than her taking the saddle , but im not going to get drawn into the farce politics, but those in the shadows want the choas that follows the Election.. all this bullpoop beforehand is to fire up the people ready for fighting
or is that how its not unfolding before your eyes?
funbox
QuoteSo are you going to address my point and admit I'm right or continue to falsely create the impression that what Trump has done is OK so support for him is reasonable on this?
in fact ill go as far to say , that what he's done so far is really more sincere than saying sorry on camera
he corrected himself for all to hear , that inofitself is the coveyer of the appology , he admitted the supposed truth for all to hear, if Obama heard/saw it, what do you think he would have thought about his statement alone , without the sorry attached?
funbox
Quote from: funbox on September 17, 2016, 02:56:50 PM
i addressed this way back, he should go see him personally and appologise , your method of a tv appology is as cold and insincere as you can get.
Oh yes, sorry, you suggested the cowards way of avoiding the public -who also deserve an apology for being misled. Public accusations = public apology.
Quoteyou think the BBC are a good thing?
Same as you have done repeatedly to other members, pretend I have said something I have not. Stop trying to change the subject!
Quotewhat points have you actually made ?
I stated my point very clearly in previous posts so clearly even an imbecile could see what it is. If you refuse to have a reasonable discussion then don't post. Trolling is NOT permitted on this forum. I've seen this enough times now to be running out of patience with it.
Quoteand ide certainly say he was the lesser of two Evils
What has that got to do with him not being man enough to apologise? Nothing.... Deflection.
Quote from: Pimander on September 17, 2016, 03:30:12 PM
Oh yes, sorry, you suggested the cowards way of avoiding the public -who also deserve an apology for being misled. Public accusations = public apology.
at least i dont think an audience is a conduit for sencerity
QuoteSame as you have done repeatedly to other members, pretend I have said something I have not. Stop trying to change the subject!
you said they were sometime bias, i interpret that as you being bias towards them , and as you can see im not liking the bbc
besides
Quoteyou think the BBC are a good thing?
that is a question you can answer if you wish
QuoteI stated my point very clearly in previous posts so clearly even an imbecile could see what it is. If you refuse to have a reasonable discussion then don't post. Trolling is NOT permitted on this forum. I've seen this enough times now to be running out of patience with it.
your opening post was a video alone.. yeah very clear
QuoteWhat has that got to do with him not being man enough to apologise? Nothing.... Deflection.
real men have a personal touch, they dont do real things for the show of others. apologies included
besides i was answering your question clearly stated here
QuoteSo are you going to address my point and admit I'm right or continue to falsely create the impression that what Trump has done is OK so support for him is reasonable on this?
funbox
Quote from: funbox on September 17, 2016, 03:37:06 PM
at least i dont think an audience is a conduit for sencerity
I'm sure the man could apologise publicly AND privately. He has had plenty of time to do that already.
Quoteyou said they were sometime bias, i interpret that as you being bias towards them , and as you can see im not liking the bbc
Yes I said that and your interpetation is wrong. I think a media not owned privately is a good thing but I think there is a lot wrong with the BBCs bias.
Quoteyour opening post was a video alone.. yeah very clear
I clarified my position as soon as I was asked. you are pretending I didn't in a pathetic trollish manner. If you troll people further on this site I will likely ban you.
I think you are saying that if Obama's Father had been a white Kenyan and not black the birth thing would never have come up. I am not sure that is true.
I admit I read a lot but didn't do any real research on the subject but I remain unconvinced Obama was born in the USA for a number of reasons and I am the least prejudiced of race, person anyone could meet.
QuoteLoretta Fuddy, the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health who verified Obama's birth certificate died mysteriously in a plane crash
I think this person did a ton of digging and has some valid points
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1129737/pg1
As for the white ruling class world wide they have all of the power and money sewn up, the poor white are really very oppressed also. Since we don't base elections on people and we don't let any without $$ even be heard and we insist on the fooliness of parties, we will never be people voting for someone to represent us instead of a bought and paid for government.
As for the situation of blacks in the US the whole thing is still like a raw sore
The Emancipation Proclamation was an executive order issued by President Lincoln on January 1, 1863. How many generations is that? In the 60's in the South my Brother Carson home from Vietnam with his best friend who was black was not able to have drinks with his friend in a place that STILL did not serve blacks!
People expect the slaves dragged from their homes all over the world to simply get over it! They still have relatives who can tell them the life and pain of a slave it is not far behind us!The whole thing sickens me but I think time, a lot of time is the only answer just as mixed marriages now are ok with most people, it took time.
Unfortunately I doubt we will have that time to heal because of the elite agenda and we are equally all prisoners of their power and desires.
Quote from: Dyna on September 17, 2016, 06:48:06 PM
People expect the slaves dragged from their homes all over the world to simply get over it! They still have relatives who can tell them the life and pain of a slave it is not far behind us!
The US was not the only country with slaves, why is it the country where that old problem is so active today? I think that's the real problem.
Quote from: Dyna on September 17, 2016, 06:48:06 PM
I think you are saying that if Obama's Father had been a white Kenyan and not black the birth thing would never have come up. I am not sure that is true.
Not exactly no.
QuoteI admit I read a lot but didn't do any real research on the subject but I remain unconvinced Obama was born in the USA for a number of reasons and I am the least prejudiced of race, person anyone could meet.
I understand what you are saying.
It matters if Obama lied about his birth place in order to become President because you don't want someone to get into office because they lied. It should not be about race but more on that later....
It probably should not matter where you were born if you are a USA citizen because surely all citizens are equal according to the constitution/bill of rights. If they are then all citizens should have the right to stand for any office. Anyone with half a brain should be able to see the contradiction if some citizens cannot be President. This in itself is xenophobic discrimination.
But my objection to Trump's past focus on this issue (and Clinton's if she did the same!) is about something else. Instead of focusing on Obama's record as President, it appeals to the xenophobic bigotry held by sections of the population and legitimises that brand of politics. Yes it might appeal to some voters, but it is divisive if - as Trump claims - you really believe in an inclusive, anti-elitist society. An inclusive society does not focus on place of birth or race, it focuses on equality (e.g. the right of all citizens to stand for POTUS.)
To persistently direct the attention of the public onto this issue is inherently divisive. If Trump can't see that then he can hardly claim to want an inclusive, equal society.
So if Obama was born in Kenya he might be a liar. But Trump claims not to believe that and still does not see fit to apologise publicly to the American people and the President for espousing to a divisive accusation. I think he is wrong to do that and it reinforces my suspicion that he is not the anti-elitist, inclusive candidate he presents himself as.
QuoteAs for the white ruling class world wide they have all of the power and money sewn up, the poor white are really very oppressed also. Since we don't base elections on people and we don't let any without $$ even be heard and we insist on the fooliness of parties, we will never be people voting for someone to represent us instead of a bought and paid for government.
Then change the system. Big change rarely comes from the elite who have everything to lose (including Trump). It has to come from the grass roots.
Do you want a system that allows the more popular Bernie Sanders to stand? Or the candidate who has support of the elite?
QuoteUnfortunately I doubt we will have that time to heal because of the elite agenda and we are equally all prisoners of their power and desires.
Well that healing will certainly not start as long as Police can be filmed murdering black people and still not be held to account.
It would help if the so called anti-elite candidate spoke with a loud and clear voice that this needs to change. I don't hear that happening. I hear lets build a wall. If there is a problem with immigration then by all means tighten border controls. The UK public have similar concerns. But build a wall sounds like divisive rhetoric and does not heal it harms.
ETA: What a relief. We are actually discussing the issue and not having to repeatedly respond to nonsense. I think that is what this forum is for. 8)
then ban me you prick
QuoteI clarified my position as soon as I was asked. you are pretending I didn't in a pathetic trollish manner. If you troll people further on this site I will likely ban you.
funbox
they tried that type of intimidation on ats,, doesn't hold bar with me , so frig your free speach curtailment effort
funbox
Quote from: ArMaP on September 17, 2016, 07:22:14 PM
The US was not the only country with slaves, why is it the country where that old problem is so active today? I think that's the real problem.
Is it? I don't know what it is like in other countries, but wasn't slavery stopped in Europe long before the US? More time?
Ah here is a list our world is unbelievable!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline
Pimander said, "I generally find American politics tedious because there is nothing to choose between the candidates. It is generally a choice between one neoliberal capitalist and a slightly more liberal neoliberal capitalist. ;D "
Pi. that statement pretty much reveals how in the dark you very much are relative to the current 2016 Presidential candidates, and what they stand for. I do understand that your being a citizen of the UK, then you would not be particularly closely interested in the political details. But, this statement is so erroneous in fact that I am a bit surprised!
First, in truth, the "neo" term does not apply to either. Hillary is a full blown socialism leaning leftist, and Trump is for sure is talking conservative with many if not most of his announced Presidential objectives. Trump is a man of the people, and Hillary is all about election big money payoffs, and growing government even bigger. Hillary will extend Obama's un-American ways, and Trump has plans to restore all that Obama has made a mess of. Hillary plans to grow illegal immigration into the country, and Trump plans to very much get immigration back into being handled within the laws, including building a wall!! Trump will repair our military! ETC. ETC. ETC.
In no way can these two candidates be noted as having similar presidential objectives for America. The people trust Trump, while Hillary has already proven in so many different ways that she can never be trusted!! :o
Quote from: rdunk on September 17, 2016, 09:31:45 PM:o :o
QuoteTrump is a man of the people, and Hillary is all about election big money payoffs, and growing government even bigger. Hillary will extend Obama's un-American ways, and Trump has plans to restore all that Obama has made a mess of. Hillary plans to grow illegal immigration into the country, and Trump plans to very much get immigration back into being handled within the laws, including building a wall!! Trump will repair our military! ETC. ETC. ETC.
Well the funny thing is how many people continue to believe speeches, that is really all I need say. :-\ Two sides to a coin.
Quote from: Dyna on September 17, 2016, 09:21:49 PM
Is it? I don't know what it is like in other countries, but wasn't slavery stopped in Europe long before the US? More time?
Ah here is a list our world is unbelievable!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline
It wasn't until 1838 that slavery was abolished in British colonies through the Slavery Abolition Act.
In the USA it was only 37 years later. I don't know about in the other countries but the difference isn't that great and we don't have the problems you guys have.
In fact, if you count the US Prison System which makes billions from black prison workers, it could be argued that you still have slavory in the US.
Quote from: rdunk on September 17, 2016, 09:31:45 PM
First, in truth, the "neo" term does not apply to either. Hillary is a full blown socialism leaning leftist, and Trump is for sure a conservative with many if not most of his announced Presidential objectives.
And what policy of either candidate will end the neoliberal mode of Capitalism apart from small scale brakes on Privatisation?
Is one of the candidates about to end Private ownership of energy, the banks, supple of arms and control of pharmaceuticals and medical care? I don't think so somehow! ::)
I won't go into detail but I don't agree with the majority of the rest of your post in this thread as it is getting too far away from the topic. (Happy to discuss in other threads but you're right if you think I'm hardly an expert on US politics. I have been involved in politics in the UK on and off so I might be able to understand something about it)
Dyna said, "As for the situation of blacks in the US the whole thing is still like a raw sore
The Emancipation Proclamation was an executive order issued by President Lincoln on January 1, 1863. How many generations is that? In the 60's in the South my Brother Carson home from Vietnam with his best friend who was black was not able to have drinks with his friend in a place that STILL did not serve blacks!"
Dyna, as I am sure that you at least KNOW. "in the 60's" was a far different time relative to black/white people issues. Since that time white people and black people have "GROWING UP TOGETHER" in all school years. That is a humongous difference making reality for growing a stable life of peaceful integration of all races. Segregation, which totally pretty much precluded integration has, for all practical purposes, been in the real process of being phased out. Most younger people today have gone to integrated schools, and have grown up having white/black friends, with now even many multi-race marriages.
With some "bumps in the road" integration has begun to work really well, all things considered!! But, certain fringe elements/fringe black individuals still keep stirring the pot for their personal financial gain. And then, we elect a black President whose goals include re-opening all of the racial wounds, and at least news wise, has made the racial tensions far worse than they have been for many years - a huge setback from where white/black relationships has progress to!!
Quote from: Dyna on September 17, 2016, 09:21:49 PM
Is it? I don't know what it is like in other countries, but wasn't slavery stopped in Europe long before the US? More time?
Yes and no. :)
Slavery ended in Portugal in 1761, but not on the colonies, where it only ended in 1869.
Quote from: ArMaP on September 17, 2016, 07:22:14 PM
The US was not the only country with slaves, why is it the country where that old problem is so active today? I think that's the real problem.
You are right ArMaP! Less than 10% of the African slave trade came to North America!!
An example article: http://www.inquisitr.com/1830533/black-history-less-than-10-percent-of-slaves-actually-came-to-north-america-transatlantic-slave-trade-where-did-they-all-go/
Quote from: Pimander on September 17, 2016, 02:40:07 PM
So has Clinton actually accused Obama of not being born in the USA?
The members of Pegasus seem to have lost their powers of investigation too. People accusing her of doing it is not evidence she did it.
Since Peggy does not have a "political forum", I have refrained
from posting anything here aside from a casual comment,
maybe others do the same?
QuoteIf she did it it would be all over the media with the clip of Clinton accusing him because the Washington Post have printed that it is a false accusation. Well where is the proof she did it?
If she did do it then she should apologise.
Pim, first you need to go back to 2008 when this issue
bubbled up to the surface. Hillary's long time
cloistered freind Sidney Blumenthal was actually
banned from the White House by Obama himself
because he and Hillary conspired to this birther
story, and they did start it and spread it.
Sidney approached a journalist shopping the
story, and tried to sell it.
Hillary will never admit to anything, even if she
were conicted. Don't hold your breath waiting.
Where did the birther story start? Quote
Those in or near the political or journalistic mainstream who traffic in the scum can get tainted. Sidney Blumenthal, a Clinton adviser, was criticized after the liberal Huffington Post blog revealed that he was circulating anti-Obama screeds, though there was no claim that he wrote them.
The Blumenthal example shows why it's unlikely that any campaign or political professional is associated with creating the sordid stuff — the fallout would be a political nightmare, Germany said.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article24483037.html
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit.244157/
Obama campaign manager in 2008 accused the Clinton campaign
of "shameful offensive fear-mongering" ...
and McClathcy News Service reported Blumenthal had "told
me in person" that Obama was born in Kenya.
Read more at above link.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsfoIszXgAAJDo2.jpg)
Quote from: burntheships on September 18, 2016, 02:45:49 AM
Pim, first you need to go back to 2008 when this issue
bubbled up to the surface. Hillary's long time
cloistered freind Sidney Blumenthal was actually
banned from the White House by Obama himself
because he and Hillary conspired to this birther
story, and they did start it and spread it.
So why did he make Hilary Secretary of State then? He clearly wouldn't ban one from the White House but give the other the second highest office in the land if he blamed them equally. Nor would he endorse Clinton for President surely. :o
If Blumenthal did it then he should apologise but that does not mean Trump shouldn't. I have looked back to 2008 and the only evidence I can find is two people saying Blumenthal said he was born in Kenya in private. But as I say, if that is the case then he should apologise. It looks straight forward to me. :)
Ultimately though it is just a distraction for me. A way of Trump trying to steer blame for his own reckless espousal of the accusation. If Trump knows now that Obama was born in the USA what information does he have that he didn't have in the past? None I assume.
If he can't apologise then see above.
If Clinton did say this publicly then there must be video of her doing it. If any member can find it then they really should produce the footage.
QuoteHillary will never admit to anything, even if she
were conicted. Don't hold your breath waiting.
I thought I'd check whether she ever apologises.
Hillary Clinton apologizes for e-mail system: 'I take responsibility' (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/09/08/hillary-clinton-apologizes-for-e-mail-system-i-take-responsibility/)
Although I'd personally prefer not see Clinton or Trump in office, I do see a difference here. Can't you start the whole process off again. ;D
My opposition to both candidates is simple. I want to see the banks, fuel, infrastructure, hospitals, pharmaceutical industry, currency and supply of arms to be controlled not by an elite capitalist cabal but in the interests of people and planet. Neither candidate is for this from what they have said they will do in office. Neither will solve the problems of the world.
QuoteNeither will solve the problems of the world.
No, America, will no longer be the power to look to, for curing the Worlds ills or creating them, as has been going on for the last 8 years and a lot longer than that. But most in your face the last 8yrs. The Obama policies, that have been implemented for "World Domination" are failing. People are waking up. I am NOT saying that the Policies that Obama has been following are his, but that of his puppet masters, but in his own actions of being the implementor of said abhorent policies, he gets the blunt of my blame.
We have been at War for quite sometime, with out actual bombs being dropped on most from a foreign country. It is a war of Propaganda and you are known by which side you "feed", many have no idea what is happening, as they are stuck with the Media and certain publishers, that have made an art out protecting the Elite, from themselves and everybody else. We are running out of time for choosing sides. For me it is easy, I will always vote to keep America's Sovereignty intact.
Evil against our fellow man, is an "Equal Opportunity" employer, it does not care about race , color or creed. I leave everyone to their own choices.
Not managed to really read or think about this thread so far, only very quickly browsed it so far..
Not sure if this may also relate to it ...
This is from the ex Mi6 agent that Ive recently been following trying to determine if I think he is fear mongering as ArMaP suggests..or if he may have some validity..
Obama Changed His Name in Canada?
Attorney Pidgeon claims he found a record for a name change from "Barak Mounir Ubayd" to "Barack Hussein Obama" on October 14th, 1982 in Skookumchuck, British Columbia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fmtJ5kh-50
This raises an important question. There is so much wrong with Obama's paperwork he could not have done this alone. Some agency or organisation has put him there, covered up all the errors; so WHY? Is he the classic 'Manchurian Candidate'? Will he make it through full term? What is his role? He obviously is only taking orders, just like Shrub, so what purpose does this serve? This could all be about to come out into the open, because as the Clintons go down they will take Obama with them and all the corruption that goes with it. They cannot between them murder enough people to keep this quiet. Be assured.
Oh! Wow ! Oh Boy ! You have to listen to this. It is deep, way down the rabbit hole. Now we understand why they have guillotines stored up and masses of plastic coffins (fact). The sub text just popped out of the bottle. The objective is to use the Presidential elections to create mass unrest on the streets of the USA; to bring in Marshall Law, Obama will justify staying on and you in the States are walking blind and blinkered into a very well engineered plan for a complete take over Dictatorship in the name of security. This explains all of the crazy dots on the page.It also explains the invasion of Europe by perhaps 3 million able young men supposedly just poor economic refugees and why their countries were destroyed to drive them North and the false hopes of the NWO that they will remain in control but as before the monsters they have created are now of their own volition and out of the control of their makers. So many mistakes, so much blind stupidity and so damn logical and well worked out. For Heavens sake wake up America as you wander, guided towards the abyss from which you may never recover. This is the most detailed analysis of the apparently unrelated data which I have ever heard in half century of Intel analysis. Code Yellow. Public Domain. God help you All.
The World is heading into very troubled waters. Insiders like myself see December 2016 as critical not least from the turmoil of the American post elections period, but also more importantly from natural events that are coming upon you all and which I want you to be very aware cannot be ignored by the safety of you denial or day to day comfort zone. I may not be able to issue more precise warnings at the 'last moments' as they (who are they?) are already starting to interfere with my communications and when the Pacific disasters happened they did not warn the people at all, "for fear of public panic", quote, unquote. You have been lulled into a sense of false security by so many false alarms, people crying "Wolf", Hey! 2012 never happened, see you were all wrong. No, it didn't happen because it was in fact 2008. The Popes screwed up the calendars because they forgot the quarter days of the years which is why they are out by 4 years. TAKE NOTE NOW. THIS IS NOT A DRILL. There will not be a WORLD WAR III, just regional wars again. Putin only has to wait. You do not enter a theatre of war to win, you endure, you wait and allow the enemy to loose. I know; I was not an Advisor for half a century not to know the rules of the great game.
People, Friends I am going to repeat a warning given by NASA to its employees some while ago. If you reside by the American coasts, move inland, get higher. I used to live in Florida once, 11 feet above sea level and I was 30 miles inland. This is not good. I trust I may be wrong, I hope I may be wrong but Florida was a swamp before they drained it. It could return to being largely a swamp with sea level rises of 6 feet over the next two years. The evidence is all there before you. Make the decisions now while you can, not when the highway is jammed with traffic running away. Note the film 2012. This year 2016 and early 2017 is 2012 as foretold.
From a readers reply who seems to relate some of it from the likes of Alex Jones & J.V......
QuoteYes agreed been following for some time, Obama is in there because they can control him.. He dose what they want or go to prison-that is why he is covered Hillary she can take him down as well.. If marshal law he stays , military has ramped up for last few + years , FEMA camps -gas lines -guillotines- plastic coffins , Jesse Ventura cover this.. The FEMA camp where designed to keep people in - not out ??? NWO by design.. Hummm ? All the back roads/ hwys have been closed threw national forests/ BLM land even log roads to corral the mass egress of this type of events, even closed to horseback
Quote from: astr0144 on September 20, 2016, 12:51:16 AM
Obama Changed His Name in Canada?
Attorney Pidgeon claims he found a record for a name change from "Barak Mounir Ubayd" to "Barack Hussein Obama" on October 14th, 1982 in Skookumchuck, British Columbia
Pitures or it didn't happen! ;D
QuoteThe objective is to use the Presidential elections to create mass unrest on the streets of the USA; to bring in Marshall Law, Obama will justify staying on and you in the States are walking blind and blinkered into a very well engineered plan for a complete take over Dictatorship in the name of security.
When this does not happen we can safely say this is nonsense. Agreed?
Quote from: Phedre on September 18, 2016, 08:07:04 PM
We have been at War for quite sometime, with out actual bombs being dropped on most from a foreign country.
I'm puzzled as to why you discuss war and complain about Obama in the same breath?
Gulf War: Bush
Iraq War: Bush
Afghan War: Bush
War on Drugs: Bush
Obama should/could have done more to end the conflicts for sure but it does not look like one President can be held responsible for the war situation.
Quote from: Pimander on September 20, 2016, 11:08:39 AM
I'm puzzled as to why you discuss war and complain about Obama in the same breath?
Gulf War: Bush
Iraq War: Bush
Afghan War: Bush
War on Drugs: Bush
Obama should/could have done more to end the conflicts for sure but it does not look like one President can be held responsible for the war situation.
I think Obama just does things more quietly. Like his plane load of cash to Iran he does things without talking about it for his own reasons. personally I think every single one of them have been hand selected by their higher ups and there is no difference they are simply tools working on the big plan so there is zero difference between them.
They are all legs of the spider that carried the fat body!
QuoteObama has also embraced special-operations forces. In fiscal year 2014, U.S. special-operations forces deployed to 133 countries, or roughly 70 percent of the entire world, The Nation reports. General Joseph Votel, the commander of SOCOM, has said, "The command is at its absolute zenith. And it is indeed a golden age for special operations." The size of SOCOM has expanded by almost 25 percent since Obama took office, increasing from 55,800 people to 69,700, according to McGraw at SOCOM.
Some of what he has done including spending much more on military is here.
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/obama-doctrine-wars-numbers/474531/
You seem confident that it wont happen !
I only hope that you are right ..
But I do have quite a feeling of being uncertain what may happen in the next 6 to 12 months...
and I could envision that there could be some nasty surprises..or maybe part expectations that we hope do not happen...
Ex Mi6's comments on the banking system ....
That I would not count out could become a problem..
QuotePlunging European Bank Stocks Are Devastating the Banks
Key bank stocks in Europe are trading at levels lower than in the depths of both the global financial crisis (2009) and the European sovereign debt crisis (2012).
euro crisis
Just one week before it wanted to release its financial results, it already issued a profit warning to the markets, and Deutsche Bank's capitalization has lost in excess of 5B EUR since the profit warning, on top of seeing an additional 18B EUR set of devastating losses since last summer. Deutsche Bank's trading is now less than 50% of the share price it was trading at in July of 2015. In short, the bottom is falling out of the European banks and there is no end in sight to the carnage.
deutsche bank
QuoteWhen this does not happen we can safely say this is nonsense. Agreed?
QuotePeople, Friends I am going to repeat a warning given by NASA to its employees some while ago. If you reside by the American coasts, move inland, get higher.
Well we are having really weird loud formations here west coast northern end.two days ago they were identical to the ones shown before China quake and today they are weird long streamers coming off the coast and inland.
These are far apart and from my location and can see 5 rows through the trees.
the chinese ones since I didn't have the camera the other day.
(http://s20.postimg.org/qtye3l2ct/China_Earthquake_cloud4.jpg)
Right now.
(http://s20.postimg.org/z9nyl357x/IMG_2059.jpg)
(http://s20.postimg.org/h84tnab71/IMG_2059.jpg)
From Burntheships
Since Peggy does not have a "political forum", I have refrained
from posting anything here aside from a casual comment,
maybe others do the same?
Having looked through the thread, having a "political forum" within a forum would probably foster more arguments rather than discussion. People get passionate about their beliefs and all too often it becomes one sided and argumentative. I have wanted to start a thread on a controversial subject but have refrained because it would probably inflame others. The subject of Hillary versus Trump and what Obama has done and where he was born is of no consequence at this juncture. People are going to vote the way they are going to vote. However, it has been proven by 3 Princeton students that voting machines can be hacked and changed. Most politicians have their own agendas anyway. My 2 cents for what it's worth which is probably nothing.
Quote from: Dyna on September 20, 2016, 11:04:01 PM
sorry about dbl pictures post.plus I realized to late really off topic.
Quote from: spacemaverick on September 21, 2016, 07:04:10 AM
Having looked through the thread, having a "political forum" within a forum would probably foster more arguments rather than discussion.
Agreed, I dont think a political forum
fits with Peggy, too small of a membership
for one reason.
[qoute] I have wanted to start a thread on a controversial subject but have refrained because it would probably inflame others. The subject of Hillary versus Trump and what Obama has done and where he was born is of no consequence at this juncture. People are going to vote the way they are going to vote. However, it has been proven by 3 Princeton students that voting machines can be hacked and changed. Most politicians have their own agendas anyway. My 2 cents for what it's worth which is probably nothing.
[/quote]
Indeed, the voting machines and hackery is a
real problem, I read somewhere that DHS is
potentially involved, which does nothing to
alleviate my concerns ...
I always like to hear what you have to say.
:)
Quote from: spacemaverick on September 21, 2016, 07:04:10 AM
Having looked through the thread, having a "political forum" within a forum would probably foster more arguments rather than discussion.
In general I agree. AboveTopSecret.com is about 80% American politics threads. There are so few threads on the topics I used to be interested in its a bit boring there. Nobody wants that here. We already had something like that happen here with religious threads.
The reason I posted about the Trump admitting Obama was born in the USA is because the Birth Certificate controversy was a big topic in conspiracy theory circles.
QuotePeople get passionate about their beliefs and all too often it becomes one sided and argumentative.
This thread looks one sided because I have a fair point. It is difficult to argue against my main point which is why almost everybody has responded by posting about something else or somebody other than Trump. :)
It is noted that there is no footage of Hilary questioning Obama's birth, And not one person has agreed with me that Obama should apologise to the American people and the President. Absolutely fascinating. 8)
One day a member will post a fair point and everybody will say something like, "Yes mate, that is obviously true. If you accuse someone of being a complete liar based on your place of birth or race then it is right to apologise." I won't hold my breath. ::)
A lot of what I post on Facebook has videos I have found where candidates and or any other person of public interest have said things right out of their own mouths and I just post it and tell people, "here, look at what they said. Most of the time it shuts down an argument they had. My favorite is a video called Star Spangled Shariah or Muslim Brotherhood Revolution? Out of their own mouths they are helping the Black Lives Matter movement and have many movements of their own her in the states. I never have any arguments when I present the videos. I use Facebook as a platform to bring out things happening in America. I don't get into discussions there...just present videos and let people look if they're are interested.
Isn't it interesting:
http://www.govtslaves.info/obamas-lawyers-officially-admit-birth-certificate-fake/ (http://www.govtslaves.info/obamas-lawyers-officially-admit-birth-certificate-fake/)
QuoteLawyers for the Obama Administration announced that Barack Obama's long form birth certificate was a forgery. Under penalty of perjury, the lawyers said they were forced to say that the birth certificate was valid.
http://www.teapartytribune.com/2012/04/13/obama-lawyer-admits-forgery-but-disregards-image-as-indication-of-obamas-ineligibility-damage-control/ (http://www.teapartytribune.com/2012/04/13/obama-lawyer-admits-forgery-but-disregards-image-as-indication-of-obamas-ineligibility-damage-control/)
QuoteA lawyer representing the Obama administration say the birth certificate was knowingly purveyed to fool the American public into believing he was legitimately able to be President.
QuoteHowever, they purport that Obama knows he is not a natural born citizen.
QuoteIn New Jersey, a case about Obama's eligibility has influenced activist to question the President's legal right to be Commander and Chief.
http://www.therightperspective.org/2012/04/15/obama-lawyer-admits-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/
QuoteNick Purpura of Wall Township, NJ, and Ted Moran of Toms River, NJ, filed their objection with the New Jersey Board of Elections. Purpura and Moran objected to Obama appearing on the June 5 Democratic Primary ballot on two grounds:
• No one knows exactly who Barack H. Obama is, because he has had three different names in life. Furthermore, he has never furnished a true copy of his birth certificate to the Secretary of State. So no one can be sure that Obama was born in the United States.
• Obama's father was a British colonial subject. He not only was not a naturalized citizen on the alleged date of Obama's birth, but indeed never sought naturalization. Therefore Obama could never be a natural-born citizen no matter where he was born.
QuoteAttorney for the plaintiff, Mario Apuzzo asserts that the birth certificate is the proof of Obama's citizenship that allows him to be on the ballot in New Jersey.
On April 10, 2012, these lawyers admitted the forgery.
Obama is asserting that the document is a fake and should not be allowed into evidence. And the judge in this case agrees.
So, Obama and his lawyers won the case by
asserting that the birth certificate was a fake and should not be submitted into evidence!
This invalidates all arguments about the validity of his birth certificate. Trump gave up trying to bring this into the light because the US Justice Dept, FBI, all the Letter Agency are CORRUPT! Why flog a dead horse?
QuoteWithout the birth certificate, Obama cannot prove he is a natural born citizen. Where before this development, the Obama administration adamantly asserted that the birth certificate was legitimate; they knowing lied and therefore should be arrested and charged with their illegal actions against the American people.
The fact that there is a President who has served 8 years in office who has had 3 names, a sealed education record, a sealed legal practice record, 25 mysterious deaths amongst his aquaintances, the death of the official in Hawai who endorsed his fake Birth Certificate, and then who comes out and wins a court case (FOIA) by stating that the Birth Certificate is a fake, well what do you say to that?
For sure the left, and the Clinton News Networks have attacked Trump for his so called "Birther" views, (All the while Obama says his birth certificate is a fake), which makes Trump the supreme strategist against this "Double Speak"!
He knows that whatever evidence there is has been long expunged, just like Hillary's emails, so let's concede that point and get on with the real election points.
It all revolves around Obama was a "Natural Born Citizen"! THe definition of that was settled in a Supreme Court case (United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)), states that BOTH parents have to be born in the USA for a candidate to be elligible for the Presidency.
Read it yourself:
Quotehttps://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/169/649/case.html
Not only that, the clause "Natural Born Citizen" was put in their to preclude Foreign Agents who would alter the very fabric of American society.
Well, gee, what has happened?
Quote from: Pimander on September 20, 2016, 11:08:39 AM
I'm puzzled as to why you discuss war and complain about Obama in the same breath?
Gulf War: Bush
Iraq War: Bush
Afghan War: Bush
War on Drugs: Bush
Obama should/could have done more to end the conflicts for sure but it does not look like one President can be held responsible for the war situation.
Look up if ,you care too? American Policies and Actions for the last 8 years Re:
Afghanistan
Iraq
Libya
Pakistan
Somalia
Syria
Egypt
Ukraine
If you will, find out more about the TPPT, It is not just a "harmless" little trade agreement, Obama has quietly been all over the world selling this plan. I also acknowledge all the harm other US Presidents have done,this not a competition.
I understand you are a Researcher and I would bet a very good one. Argument is not the way, it is only what we discover for ourselves do we remain teachable.
As to your question about Trump, needing to apologize to Obama..........No