How were the Pyramids of Egypt really built

[RUSSO]

And only joined together a bunch of rocks in a pyramidal shape. What a waste of technology. 

Not if you want to send a message to the future

What message? Hey you from the future... You are not the only game in the town.

Also mabe we are not so smart or sincere to have figured or disclosed the real message it had/has.

[ArMaP]

Not if you want to send a message to the future

If I wanted to send a message to the future I would make something more complex than a pyramid. 

[RUSSO]

If I wanted to send a message to the future I would make something more complex than a pyramid. 

You mean making something that could take the action of time for eras and maybe be a vault? Do you know for sure if all the content inside of it was really disclosed to the public? I  dont think so.

[ArMaP]

You mean making something that could take the action of time for eras and maybe be a vault?

No, something that, 4000 years later, could show without any doubt that it was made by an advanced civilization with technology that could counter gravity.

[RUSSO]

No, something that, 4000 years later, could show without any doubt that it was made by an advanced civilization with technology that could counter gravity.

What modern building made by our society you think is complex and durable enough to show in the future we were advanced?

[ArMaP]

What modern building made by our society you think is complex and durable enough to show in the future we were advanced?

I don't have the slightest idea, for several reasons. First, I don't know many buildings around the world, second, the buildings we have now were not (as far as I know) made to show to future people that we are advanced, third, I wasn't thinking about that, I was thinking about a possible ancient civilization more advanced than we are today leaving something for the future generations to show they had existed.

[hoss58]

And only joined together a bunch of rocks in a pyramidal shape. What a waste of technology. 

[grin].. The great pyramid is and was more than a bunch of joined together rocks . What remains at Giza today is the stripped down remnants of a sophisticated machine . All the good parts have been removed . One of the places where you can see where stuff has been removed is in the great ascending hallway. On the sides you can observe holes where a row of huge parts where placed all along that corridor. The so called sarcophagus was where you laid down and received some kind  treatment or purification . Possibly you were transported somewhere, there are various stories and accounts .

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

 
What if the pyramids were built by thousands of slaves and or Egyptians over years to provide a burial chamber for the pharaoh, using nothing more than the current techniques of the times?
Just because modern man can't conceive of the effort or the mindset of these ancient peoples, doesn't mean that there was advanced technology or aliens helping them.

[astr0144]

I had made ref to some other theories that may have been suggested to have been used in the Pyramid Construction..

that maybe seen as other ways to have lifted the heavy stone blocks... and had also recently seen a video on Sound levitation..which seemed to be something similar to what I thought  was like Anti Gravity effect. (if such a thing is possible)

Although Sound levitation is mainly to do with resonance / Frequency Vibration...in the use of Sound...BUT  it maybe that everything is more or less  to do with Vibration / and frequency.... light  or any mass , states of matter , temperature , EMF or energy for eg... its to do wih atomic atom like vibration. maybe all to do with Einsteins E = MC2 equation.

I think we assume any advanced race just knows so much more about how to manipulate all the effects of energy atomic vibration...  that also allows Antigravity...and other weird and  unbeliavble things...

Zorgon
I thought we were discussing PYRAMID CONSTRUCTION. Don't mix oranges with cucumbers

Yes, You remind me that Sound does not travel thru a vacuum....but even in Space.. I dont think its seen as a perfect vacuum. and generally the standards of Vacuum varies..  Yet if I recall other Electro Mag EMF waves are able to travel thru a vacuum. Light and gamma waves for eg

No sound does not travel in a vacuum... but then I am pretty sure there is AIR were the pyramids were built

In ref to most similar  UFO type TV programs / Videos... It seems most are similar... but each has some parts that will have some valid or maybe worthy material...but there is always quite a % that either is disinfo or misleading or a waste of space or our time ... and its down to us to try to determine what maybe worthwhile or not....Hence your Forum to try to do so..

But I think many have to be worthwhile watching.. as they do offer some of the basics stories , theories, ideas and suggestions to consider... Are they any better than reading materials..(what we may read in books or online)...

I think I prefer to watch a program / video to try to explain than to read a book.. if I think the material is likely to have some validity..

I thought that some things that UFO Hunters had attempted to do.. were different to many other UFO type programs in that they make out that they are trying to apply science or research into certain things that may not have been seen or attempted before.... but for the average person... unless they are really educated or clever.. its not that easy to know one way or another...  Its only after a person has done a lot of study and research things that they will be able to debunk some of the stuff they do...

and as I think you have suggested and indicated on many an occasion... much of the UFO so called experts who are on these programs...on just on the circuit either to pass on disinfo or for the money or fame..

But some of their material / theories can be of interest or thought provoking.. and its such a huge subject..

Can't stand either of them (UFO Hunters) Total waste of time  stretch 15 min of drama into an hour and leave you with no conclusion.

I think as ArMaP states... That it does have some ref to Gravity..

From what I recall Surface tension was more to do with the top layer skin on the liquid molecular surface... where you can balance a Needle on a calm water surface for eg..

BUT Buoyancy... is like a force that acts opposing to gravity, but within a  fluid liquid medium.. such as under water..

if you try to sink or hold a ping pong ball under water and release it... it move upwards to the surface. with a thrust like action..  if you had a deep tank of liquid water...say 100 feet deep... and you are able to try to sink that ping pong ball at various depths in a series of experiments.. where you take it down n 10 foot stages.. start with  10 feet, then 20 feet , 30 ft etc etc  and so on and release the ball from each 10 foot depth... I think in all cases the ball would move up..

BUT How quickly and with how much force or thrust... that may vary .. as I think the weight of the water acts on the ball..

but does deeper water give it more or less force thrust..

If you have a tank of 1000 to 10000 fet or more deep.... the ball may get crushed due to the weight / pressure of the water..

But I get the impression that the force seems rather constant within certain depths..

I am not sure if Surface tension.. may also act on water molecules.. that are under the water.. not just on its surface.

maybe there is something to that also..

Few of us are good enough Scientists to know some of thi stuff in enough detail or its hard to recall the experiements in details without doing further research...to remind ourseleves..sometimes its on the day if we can recall things.. as we get older..

Bouyancy has nothing to do with gravity  It is all about surface tension. It also has nothing to do with anti gravity

I think Wikipedia has some use at times for certain facts that are often just easy to obtain in a quick online search.
that I know in the past has been questioned but often  still gets used..

Stop using Wicked Pedia

I think many keen UFO researchers find it hard not to consider Anti Gravity..

to say it would be useless.. is hard to accept.

At the end of the day.. its a question of does one believe or not believe in it..or if its possible.

If Bob Lazar was telling the truth.. followers of him who believe his theories / story.. believe it exists..

It only needs to be used to lift of from the Earth to the outer atmosphere...or to hover in it..

Maybe other movements sideways etc within earths atmosphere ... dont need to be A.G related.. as other types of thrusters maybe used. and I dont think a crafts speeds need to be related to A.G...

its purely the lift of a object against Gravity...

What is weird..is with ping pong ball eg... thats under water and also acting against gravity... and also the earths atmosphere.. yet it appears to move up thru the water as a type of anti gravity effect.. within a medium, except thats a liquid fluid...

In the Earths atmosphere... I think of it as AIR...

but Water is H2 O... Hydrogen and Oxygen..  (2 hydro atoms to one Oxygen atoms) but not sure what % is classed as oxygen... I dont think its just seen as either half or 50% or even 33% of the whole compound..

Air is mainly Nitrogen plus only about 30 % is Oxygen..

but 30 % of that air maybe he same amount of Oxygen that is within water...

so maybe 30% of the atmosphere is similar to that of what % of it is within  the liquid water..in which the ping pong balls was able to move thru it in a buoyancy trust like way..

so is it a heavier Nitrgen that may have the effects on the ball to stops its thrust thru the atmosphere from it acting partley in a similar way..

but what would happen to the ball if the atmosphere part or nitrogen became liquidfied ? 

That means the temperature / pressure would have altered..

So in ref to water... where it can be in 3 states.. Solid ice,  liquid water or gas / vapor

At some stage I may had ben thinking that the air above water level is most of our atmosphere and that its like the gas like  state of water..  BUT Nitrogen is the main element of the Above water level to High Atmosphere range..

So the upthrust effect of a ping pong ball as it moves up from say a thrust from below the water level..once released..

cannot continue to main its momentum move once it enters the atmosphere air medium...and also we suggest gravity prevents it from rising...

SO... if say the water level had been 50 % of the distance between the bottom of the sea  floor to the higher parts of the atmosphere..... if you were able to lower the ping pong ball to the bottom of the sea..without it crushing.. and release it... it would move up half way to the height / distance between the Earths lower  below sea floor surface to the top of the sea level..

but generall the sea levels depth is only a fraction of the distance from the sea floor to the top of the Earths atmosphere.  So releasing a pingpong ball in such a way only ever moves a small fraction of the distance as described..
using buoyancy / thrust...

and the medium of the Above sea level.. air like medium... does not allow the ball to maintain its lift like action.

BUT as all elements even Nitrogen... all can be of each 3 states similar to water...

one may question why or is it possible that somehow there should be a way for something like that ping pong balls to still be able to move thru the air like element medium.. in a similar way that we see  the balls move up thru a liquid state medium..

The PingPong ball under water , has the pressure / weight of water acting on it.. that maybe what also gives the buoyancy thrust to it.. and it also has gravity acting on it and also the weight of the air like atmosphere..

when the ball is at sea level... it only has gravity plus the weight of the earths atmosphere acting on it..

As we know Gravity is not that great a force acting on an object within the atmosphere.. or we would not be able to even see a light weight balloon lift or rise up part way thru it...

and maybe it seems that the earths atmosphere is not great either.. as there is moe weight acting on a balloon from at lower levels...where we release them from.. yet as they lift.. where there is less atmosphere weight acting on it... the balloon still then only will rise so far... as the gas within it gets effected due to less weight acting on it..
providing there are no leaks in it... I assume the inside gas pressure expands and maybe pops it...
the the outside atmosphere pressure is lessened ..



Just some weird thoughts on trying to think how things are or to question why some things may or maybe not be possible..thru a series of thought processes...trying to figure out why or what what would need to alter to allow it to happen..

Anti-gravity is useless as it would simply cancel out Gravity and leave you hanging.  And what use is anti-gravity once in space in a virtual zero gravity field?

Buoyancy is related to gravity, without gravity you don't have buoyancy.
Says the guy that uses a link from Stack Exchange that contradicts him. 

If it was only surface tension how do submarines go up and down? Their surface tension doesn't change, only their weight.

[ArMaP]

BUT Buoyancy... is like a force that acts opposing to gravity, but within a  fluid liquid medium.. such as under water..

Within a fluid, it can be a liquid or a gas.

if you try to sink or hold a ping pong ball under water and release it... it move upwards to the surface. with a thrust like action..  if you had a deep tank of liquid water...say 100 feet deep... and you are able to try to sink that ping pong ball at various depths in a series of experiments.. where you take it down n 10 foot stages.. start with  10 feet, then 20 feet , 30 ft etc etc  and so on and release the ball from each 10 foot depth... I think in all cases the ball would move up..

Yes, it would always move up.

BUT How quickly and with how much force or thrust... that may vary .. as I think the weight of the water acts on the ball..

but does deeper water give it more or less force thrust..

It depends.

After a few searches I found (not on Wikipedia ) that the buoyancy force is directly related to the density of the fluid, the volume of the object immersed in that fluid and the force of gravity, something like F=d*V*g, in which "F" is the buoyancy force, "d" is the density of the fluid, "V" the volume of the object and "g" is the force of gravity, usually 9.8 N/kg.

If the object doesn't compress with depth, then the volume doesn't change, so the buoyancy force doesn't change. But if the density of the fluid changes, like happens when the depth is relatively big and the weight of the water above compresses the water below, making it denser (the same thing that happens in the atmosphere, with lower layers being much denser than upper layers), or when the fluid is something like salt water, that has the tendency of being more salty and, consequently, denser in lower layers, the change in density changes the buoyancy force.

As all the elements in the formula are directly related, an increase of, for example, 1% of the density will result in an increase of the buoyancy.

I'll try it with some numbers.

d=1
V=0.2
g=9.8

F=1*0.2*9.8=1.96

Now for d=1.01

F=1.01*0.2*9.8=1.9796

You can see that the buoyancy force was increased by 1% (1.96 * 1.01 = 1.9796).

If you have a tank of 1000 to 10000 fet or more deep.... the ball may get crushed due to the weight / pressure of the water..

If the depth is enough the ball will be crushed, that happens to submarines.

But I get the impression that the force seems rather constant within certain depths..

I suppose we could consider it constant, if we are talking about water or another liquid that are not easily compressed, but if we are talking about the atmosphere then things are different, as gas is highly compressible.

I am not sure if Surface tension.. may also act on water molecules.. that are under the water.. not just on its surface.

I suppose surface tension still applies, but being the weakest force of the three involved (buoyancy, gravity and surface tension) I think it doesn't interfere much with the final result and is negligible.

I think many keen UFO researchers find it hard not to consider Anti Gravity..

What would be useful would be negative gravity.

What is weird..is with ping pong ball eg... thats under water and also acting against gravity... and also the earths atmosphere.. yet it appears to move up thru the water as a type of anti gravity effect.. within a medium, except thats a liquid fluid...

That's because, like in all other situations, objects are being affected by several forces acting on them. When all the forces cancel each other the object is at rest, like the ping pong ball on top of a table, when the force of gravity acting upon the ball is cancelled by the reactive force of the table against the ball. If the table breaks, that force disappears and the ball falls, as it now is only being subjected to gravity, that pulls it down.

When immersed in a fluid an object becomes also subjected to buoyancy, so that's another force acting on the object that goes against gravity. As we are in a fluid (the atmosphere) we are also subjected to buoyancy, but it's a very weak force. A balloon, being a much denser object, has a much smaller weight, so is subjected to a stronger buoyancy. A balloon filled with helium becomes less heavy than the same volume of air, so it rises until it reaches an altitude at which the air density around it becomes too low to give it enough buoyancy.

Just for fun (yes, I think making calculations can be fun, specially when related with physics ) we can try to find the buoyancy force acting on a human. Let's start by assuming a volume of 0.07 cubic metres (70 litres, equivalent to a person weighing some 65 kg, as we know a human is less dense than water. It's a subjective number) and an air density of 1.225 kg/m³. That would give us:

F=1.225 kg/m³ * 0.07 m³ * 9.8 N/kg = 0.84035 N (or 0.08575 kg)

A weight of 65 Kg (as assumed above) translates into 637.43 N, so buoyancy is only little more than 1/1000 of that person's weight.

In water the formula would be:
F= 1000 kg/m³ * 0.07 m³ * 9.8 N/kg = 686 N (or 70 kg)

We can see that the 637.43 N the person weighs are less than the 686 N buoyancy provides, so the person floats.

The PingPong ball under water , has the pressure / weight of water acting on it.. that maybe what also gives the buoyancy thrust to it.. and it also has gravity acting on it and also the weight of the air like atmosphere..

when the ball is at sea level... it only has gravity plus the weight of the earths atmosphere acting on it..

Gravity is responsible for the weight, so in fact we have only different levels of gravity influence, resulting from different densities.

As we know Gravity is not that great a force acting on an object within the atmosphere.. or we would not be able to even see a light weight balloon lift or rise up part way thru it...

and maybe it seems that the earths atmosphere is not great either.. as there is moe weight acting on a balloon from at lower levels...where we release them from.. yet as they lift.. where there is less atmosphere weight acting on it... the balloon still then only will rise so far... as the gas within it gets effected due to less weight acting on it..
providing there are no leaks in it... I assume the inside gas pressure expands and maybe pops it...
the the outside atmosphere pressure is lessened ..

Yes, balloons rise up one of two conditions are met: they reach a level at which their weight is the same as the buoyancy acting on them or they reach a point at which the density of the air around them is so low that the balloon expands until it ruptures. There are several videos on the Internet of meteorological balloons exploding when they reach that limit.

Just some weird thoughts on trying to think how things are or to question why some things may or maybe not be possible..thru a series of thought processes...trying to figure out why or what what would need to alter to allow it to happen..

I think you're doing a great job. Thinking is what have brought us to the point we are at the moment, with people from all around the world "talking" with each other as if they were (almost) on the same room.

Keep thinking, even if it looks that it leads to nothing new.
Just the fact that we are free to think what we want is good enough for me.

PS: in theory, buoyancy can happen in any fluid or fluid-like medium, so I suppose it can happen in the solar system, if we consider that we have the Sun's gravity acting on everything and that everything is immersed in the so called "solar wind", that on itself also represents a force pushing away from the Sun, so I think it would be possible to make a "solar balloon" that would move closer or away from the Sun if we adjusted its "solar buoyancy". Moving sideways would be a different matter.

PPS: I hope I haven't made things more confusing.

[zorgon]

If I wanted to send a message to the future I would make something more complex than a pyramid. 

Well yes and no....

The main thing here is that the Great Pyramids are effectively the first pyramids. They were built huge and perfect... Then the other pyramids that were built later started to slowly decline

This is the only construct of humanity that goes from perfect to barely done.  All other projects start with small beginnings and get better as we learn how to do it..

The Egyptians recorded EVERYTHING they did in daily life in pictographs... yet there is not ONE depiction of how they built them. There is on;y ONE depiction of a statue being moved on a sled pulled by ropes... which we used to base our entire theory of rocks moved by ropes on.

The Great Pyramid is full of mathematical knowledge buillt using sacred geometry. The Pyramid is built with amazing precision...  The axis is true north south... the base to height ratio "squares the circle"   

And most important is that the ANGLES of the Pyramid are set that way for specific reasons.... That angle was not the easiest to build but it is necessary to generate the energy that is often depicted as a beam of light out of the Apex... like the one we have in Vegas



In the 70's this energy was researched a lot  Seems we have forgotten about it today



Was it built to send a message to the future? I doubt it.  I believe it is a lasting remnant of a vastly Ancient society, just like those puzzle block huge megaliths found around the world that were once attributed to the Inca etc... but we now know the Incas only used them to build on...

History as we know it is wrong...

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

I'm sorry, but I hate to be a wet noodle here, but just because they were ancient people, does that make them stupid? Could they have figured out, with the vast resources at their command, designed and built them perfect? Then as the Kingdoms deteriorated over time, as they always do, through wars and personal feuds and conquest, lost the ability to get it right? In other words, lost the humph to sacrifice everything for their pharaoh?
The same could be said of the US space program. With the right stuff, lol (sorry), we went to the moon (yeah yeah I know) but now we have to borrow rocket rides from the Russians!....(We supposedly got through the Van Allen Belt but now we have to figure out a way to do it?)....

Just Sayin'....

[SerpUkhovian]

What if the pyramids were built by thousands of slaves and or Egyptians over years to provide a burial chamber for the pharaoh, using nothing more than the current techniques of the times?

Occam's Razor?

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

Occam's Razor?

Maybe...
I don't know....
and I think all these suppositions are meaningful and insightful. But usually the simplest is the best...

Until someone discovers the how to guide of how they did it, no answer is correct.
 

[zorgon]

I'm sorry, but I hate to be a wet noodle here, but just because they were ancient people, does that make them stupid?

No the Ancients were very smart

BUT  smart does not mean you instantly come up with an idea and make it right the first time.

Take the  Antikythera mechanism for example. That is a computer of intricate gears that model the movement of the planets (as proven by a modern reconstruction of it)  Yet the DATE they give for it precedes any know invention of gears.

You do NOT just out of the blue build something so huge and perfect without having first developed the necessary skills. 

So be a wet noodle if you must but don't throw logic and science on the trash heap like so many are doing today. Before you know it you will be declaring the Earth is flat.

In other words, lost the humph to sacrifice everything for their pharaoh?

The Pyramids were NEVER a tomb for any Pharaoh... besides the GP was built before there were Pharaohs.  The always ignored INVENTORY STELLA of KHUFU clearly states that he found the GP already a very ancient structure and he only repaired it.  I find it truly astonishing that archaeologist take everything else in that stella as gospel, yet deliberately ignore that part

The same could be said of the US space program. With the right stuff, lol (sorry), we went to the moon (yeah yeah I know) but now we have to borrow rocket rides from the Russians!....(We supposedly got through the Van Allen Belt but now we have to figure out a way to do it?)....

Yes technology can be forgotten...I can only imagine what was lost in the Library of Alexandria, But just because NASA forgot how to go to the moon, The Russians still launch rockets