Liquid Water Lake Discovered for FIRST Time on Mars

[A51Watcher]

[ArMaP]

Some people can't watch videos, could you post a short description of what is said in the video?

[astr0144]

Mars: huge underground lake raises prospects of life on planet, astronomers say
Scientists have spotted a 12 mile-wide stretch of water underneath a slab of ice at the Martian south pole

Wed 25 Jul 2018 16.06 BST First published on Wed 25 Jul 2018 15.00 BST

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Artistic impression of the Mars Express spacecraft probing the southern hemisphere of Mars, superimposed on a radar cross section of the southern polar layered deposits. The blue spots are areas of very high reflectivity - thought to be water.
Artistic impression of the Mars Express spacecraft probing the southern hemisphere of Mars, superimposed on a radar cross section of the southern polar layered deposits. The blue spots are areas of very high reflectivity - thought to be water. Photograph: Graphic rendering by Davide Coero Borga/ESA, INAF

Astronomers have found compelling evidence that there is a huge reservoir of liquid water buried a mile under the ice near the south pole on Mars.




Radar measurements taken from the European Space Agency's Mars Express orbiter spotted the 12-mile-wide stretch of water at the base of a thick slab of polar ice in a region known as Planum Australe.

It is the first time that researchers have identified a stable body of liquid water on the red planet. The finding raises the likelihood that any microbial life that arose on Mars may continue to eke out a rather bleak existence deep beneath the surface.


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"We discovered water on Mars," said Roberto Orosei at the National Institute of Astrophysics in Bologna. Any other explanation for the bright reflections the scientists saw in their radar observations was "untenable", he added. Details of the finding are reported in the journal, Science.

Today, the most obvious signs that Mars was once a wet world are the ancient waterways that sculpted the planet's surface many millions of years ago. In 2015, Nasa announced that it had spotted water seeping down slopes and gullies on the planet, but that interpretation was cast into doubt last year when US Geological Survey researchers argued that the mysterious dark streaks were no more than tumbling grains.

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Researcher explains how water was found on Mars - video
For the latest discovery, researchers in Italy analysed three years of data gathered by an instrument called the Mars Advanced Radar for Subsurface and Ionosphere Sounding, or Marsis, onboard the Mars Express probe. The measurements, collected between 2012 and 2015, show that radar waves penetrated the clear ice at the Martian south pole but reflected strongly off a body of water that lay beneath.

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John Bridges, a professor of planetary science at the University of Leicester, who helped locate the final resting place of the UK's Beagle 2 lander on Mars, said the scientists had made a convincing case for liquid water on Mars. "It's a careful analysis of the data. There's certainly a good basis for it," he said.

Elena Pettinelli, a scientist on the team at Roma Tre University, said it was impossible to know whether the body of water was a lake or an aquifer where the water filled interconnected pores in Martian rock. If it is an open body of water, it may resemble Lake Vostok, the largest subglacial lake in Antarctica, she said.

Nor can the scientists tell how deep the water is. The radar pulses from the Marsis instrument bounce back off the water but don't reach the bottom of the reservoir. The best the scientists can say is that the water is at least a metre or two deep.

What they do know is that the water is extremely cold. At the bottom of the ice at the Martian south pole, the temperature is estimated to be about -68C. Though far below zero, the water is thought to remain liquid because it is under pressure and rich in salts, in particular magnesium, calcium, and sodium compounds known as perchlorates, which are readily found on the surface of Mars.

Mars express orbiter flying over the south pole of Mars. The radar signals are colour coded and deep blue corresponds to the strongest reflections, which are interpreted as being caused by the presence of water.
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Mars express orbiter flying over the south pole of Mars. The radar signals are colour coded and deep blue corresponds to the strongest reflections, which are interpreted as being caused by the presence of water. Photograph: Science
While hardly ideal for life as we know it, the briny fluid could potentially support microbes which have adapted to such salty conditions. The challenge any Martian microbes would face is resisting the osmotic potential which acts to draw water out of cells and leave them in a desiccated heap. "This is certainly not a very pleasant environment for life," said Orosei. Though not an expert in the harsh extremes that life can endure, Bridges suspects the salty conditions in the Martian water might be too much to survive. "I think it's really, really stretching the envelope of potential life to bursting point," he said.


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Mark Sephton, who researches life in extreme environments at Imperial College, London, said that the water being so far under the surface of Mars was not in itself a problem for life. The surface of Mars is bombarded by intense radiation that effectively sterilises the surface, so if life lurks anywhere on the planet, it is likely to be underground. "As long as there is an energy source to exploit and a source of nutrients or raw materials then life is possible," he said.

"High salt conditions are good for maintaining a liquid state but are a challenge for life. If the salt concentrations outside of the cell are higher than the inside then it draws water out from inside the cell and the cell shrinks and desiccates. Life can adapt by synthesising organic molecules to stop the process but there are limits, beyond which the high salinities in the cell interfere with biochemistry and the cell dies," Sephton added. "So for Mars, some mechanisms which keep water in a liquid state can operate at levels that are too much of a good thing for life."

It may be some time before scientists can investigate the water under the Martian south pole to see if any life lurks there. "Getting there and acquiring the final evidence that this is indeed a lake will not be an easy task," said Orosei. "It will require flying a robot there which is capable of drilling through 1.5km of ice and this will certainly require some technological developments that at the moment are not available."

For now, the researchers will search other sites on Mars for signs of more subterranean lakes or aquifers. Writing in the journal, the authors say: "There is no reason to conclude that the presence of subsurface water on Mars is limited to a single location."

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/jul/25/huge-underground-lake-discovered-on-mars-say-astronomers

Some people can't watch videos, could you post a short description of what is said in the video?

[ArMaP]

Thanks for that, astr0144.

One interesting thing about this discovery is that the radar on board of Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (SHARAD) has not confirmed the data from MARSIS.

[A51Watcher]

Yeah what he said.

Thanks Astro! 

[zorgon]

Did we forget about THIS lake on Mars shown by ESA 28 July 2005

[zorgon]

And all the files we have on water on Mars thanks to Bluebird, a NASA scientist? (that disappeared just before she was going to cover Venus)

[The Seeker]

People have short attention spans and even shorter memories, Viceroy  in the age of fake news and info overload it seems the majority are developing a severe case of CRS (Can't Remember Shit) and its growing exponentially 

[ArMaP]

Did we forget about THIS lake on Mars shown by ESA 28 July 2005

There's a slight difference, that's not liquid.

[astr0144]

You are Welcome !

I am not well up on the Mars Missions... I recall some of the other missions and some of the things that they claim to have been doing or have been used for... but I lost interest when they started suggesting that they had phptos of certain things that looked like unusual life like objects.. that I think were just suggestions and often just rocks.

But there have been indications that they had discovered water..and maybe not just from the icecaps

I think this latest discovery.. is still related to a lake within or close to the Icecap.. but that it maybe seen as a being a part that is looking more likely to be lake like in this case suggested as salt water that is still frozen..but as yet they are uncertain on its depth..  but that it could have a higher probability of having forms of microbe like life within it...

It would be ok if they were able to send a mission to be able to get to that area and drill into the ice to try to get samples...but that may not be straight forward or possible.

In ref to the Video.. I have not as yet watched itin detail.. but the presenter seems to be quite knowledgable and very excited about it and is making several suggestions about what maybe possible and trys to explain his thoughts on it and what maybe possible. so it maybe worth ArMaP trying to watch the video..



Armap

Thanks for that, astr0144.

One interesting thing about this discovery is that the radar on board of Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (SHARAD) has not confirmed the data from MARSIS.

A51 Watcher

Yeah what he said.
Thanks Astro! 

I must have missed Bluebird... but its good to know you had another NASA connectted Scientists as a member..

Zorgon

And all the files we have on water on Mars thanks to Bluebird, a NASA scientist? (that disappeared just before she was going to cover Venus)

I think we all go thru mental / memory blocks at varying times..sometimes worse at times than others...or get things mixed up or have misunderstandings sometimes in ref to communications, even the mods.... your lucky if you dont..


Seeker

People have short attention spans and even shorter memories, Viceroy  in the age of fake news and info overload it seems the majority are developing a severe case of CRS (Can't Remember Shit) and its growing exponentially 

[ArMaP]

In ref to the Video.. I have not as yet watched itin detail.. but the presenter seems to be quite knowledgable and very excited about it and is making several suggestions about what maybe possible and trys to explain his thoughts on it and what maybe possible. so it maybe worth ArMaP trying to watch the video..

No, thanks, 11 minutes is too long for me, I prefer to read.

[astr0144]

I recall sometime ago you said you did not like to watch videos... but I thought that later that you had decided to do so on certain videos...  or do you just hve a problem being able to watch them due to software problems.. or not say wanting to accept youtubes conditions or something along that line.... which I can understand if thats one of your reasons...

as I am not able to watch certain ones that I will not agree to accept..

No, thanks, 11 minutes is too long for me, I prefer to read.

[ArMaP]

I recall sometime ago you said you did not like to watch videos...

Yes.

I only watch short (2 or 3 minutes) videos, unless the topic is something that I am really interested in to spend the time to watch it. I don't like watching videos because, most of the time, they take 5 minutes to say the same thing I could read in 1 or 2, unlike written information we are forced to go along at the pace they want, so they are in fact controlling how we use our own time, and control of how spend my free time is something I don't want to lose.

That's also one of the reasons I don't like telephones, as they give other people power over our own time.

Yes, I'm strange like that.

[zorgon]

That's also one of the reasons I don't like telephones, as they give other people power over our own time.
Yes, I'm strange like that.

You are not the only one I use a machine to answer phone and listen to who is on... If i need to talk I pick up 

As for videos  I agree...  to much blah blah blah to get to the point especially those two to three hour speaker ones.  Also documentaries on TV   same thing   repeat over and over after each commercial break  and in the end they tell you nothing.

And most videos these days the music over powers the speaker so you can barely make out what they say, or the music is so irritating it literally hurts 

And instant messages like Skype etc...  with all the friends I have around the world there is always someone waking up as the other one is going to sleep.

They get offended if you don't spare them the time but forget that if you have hundreds of contacts around the globe you would never get anything done  ever