Brexit latest

[space otter]

ok this article is helping me understand a bit about what is going on because i really haven't kept up with this

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-46551986

Brexit latest: I'm confused... what just happened?
By Rob Watson
UK political correspondent, BBC World Affairs Unit
15 December 2018

It's been an eventful week in UK politics, to put it mildly.

Prime Minister Theresa May began the week hoping to push through her vision for Brexit. Days later, she survived a coup from within her own Conservative party.

But how did this happen? What does it mean? And what comes next?

Politics is all about numbers and dates.

This week, 650 members of the UK parliament were supposed to vote on the deal Theresa May struck with EU members on how exactly the UK should leave the EU.

Instead, 317 Conservatives had a vote of no confidence in her leadership. She won, but by only 200 votes to 117, leaving her weakened and her party more divided than ever.

What's next?

The government must hold a vote on Mrs May's deal by 21 January or come up with another plan. But with little chance of her winning such a vote and no sign of a Plan B, this looks like a profound political crisis.

How significant was this week?
With little more than 100 days to go there's still no certainty as to how, or even if, the UK will leave the European Union.

This week, Theresa May delayed a parliamentary vote on her deal with the EU, knowing she would lose. She narrowly survived a vote of no confidence in her leadership and then failed to win major concessions from fellow European leaders after a desperate plea for help.

All this leaves the UK in a profound political crisis with no end to it in sight.

How did this come about?
As British politics appeared to descend into chaos this week, one senior Conservative MP remarked that Brexit had sparked nothing short of a revolution that had engulfed both the country's major parties.

Whether that's precisely the right word or not, it's clear this "revolution" or current crisis was indeed sparked on 23 June 2016 when the majority of voters voted for something - in Brexit - many elected British politicians then and now think is a catastrophic mistake.


Two and half years on, as Mrs May is finding to her cost, there's still no consensus among those politicians as to what to do about the result of that referendum. It's as simple but as seismic as that.

What was all that nonsense with the mace?
This chaotic and revolutionary-seeming period in British politics was symbolised best, perhaps, by an MP from the opposition Labour Party dramatically grabbing and making off with the ceremonial mace in the House of Commons after Mrs May called off the much-expected vote on her Brexit deal.

The mace represents the Queen in Parliament and debate cannot continue if it is removed.

In any normal week, such a violation of parliamentary decorum would have stolen all the headlines, but these are not normal times. Instead, this week is likely to be remembered as the one where the divisions within the governing Conservative Party over Europe became more vicious than ever.

They certainly became more public, with the ultimately failed political coup against the prime minister from the hardest of hard Brexiteers in her party who want the hardest of hard breaks from Europe.

What happens next?
At this point only two things, or should I say dates, are certain.

By law, Theresa May is obliged to put her deal to a vote by 21 January 2019, or go to Parliament with a Plan B.

The other date of course is Brexit day: 29 March 2019. Mrs May's strategy appears to be to delay putting her unloved plan to a vote until the very last minute, hoping the ticking Brexit clock will be enough to frighten MPs into finally backing it.

If that fails, she'll be facing a terrible dilemma.

On the one hand she could somehow cancel, delay, soften or hold another referendum on Brexit and risk alienating the 17.4 million people who voted Leave.

But on the other hand, she could go for a so-called Hard Brexit (where few of the existing ties between the UK and the EU are retained) and risk causing untold damage to the UK's economy and standing in the world for years to come.

lots of links for more info at the article

[fansongecho]

Hi Space Otter,

It is a little difficult to comprehend just how divided the UK is right now, whole families are at war about the Brexit situation, it was such a close vote but the actual gulf between the so called Brexiters and Re-moaners is unbridgeable in my honest opinion.

It has divided people in the main political parties as well -

The lines are drawn (as I see it, but could be wrong) in the simplest terms Brexit folks want our Sovereignty back, and the stop of unlimited immigration, and to have the power removed from faceless and un-elected bureaucrats who at the moment wield an unbelievable amount of power, and we pay the second highest amount of money into the EU (£350 Millions per week) after Germany - for what?.. I have no idea ?

Remainer's are in my honest opinion deluded snowflakes who want to hug every migrant that lands on our doorstep - they don't care that we are ruled by he faceless parliament that can change our laws at will, they don't care about our Sovereignty.


Theresa May is now in charge of the Poison Chalice that is Brexit, and she cant possibly win what ever she tries to do now, the deal she negotiated with the EU is a joke - and the EU have stated that their will not be any more negotiations, so no Plan B -

This is a useful link - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-hard-soft-what-is-the-difference-uk-eu-single-market-freedom-movement-theresa-may-a7342591.html

There is a massive push from the likes of Tony Blair and other remainers to hold a second referendum..  BUT this would really pi$$ off a huge portion of the UK as it is totally undemocratic, it would be like the US population being told - "Look we know the vote went for Trump, but we ain't happy with the result so just to make sure we are going to have another election"

To wrap this up from my point of view, Prime Minister Cameron will go down in history for the debacle that is Brexit, his election promise was to put Brexit to the vote, and he and the Government at the time had no idea that it would be a yes vote, they were all banking on it being a no, he walked away and Mrs May is now in the hot seat, at some point in January she has to put Plan A to the vote in Parliament, and its going to get slaughtered, she has nowhere else to go, apart from a Hard Brexit (see above) -

She survived the vote of no confidence and they cannot by law try another vote of confidence, so this really is going to be her legacy (downer for her)

I have said before on here and other social media, I do believe the Globalists will find some angle and strategy that stops the UK from Brexit, I don't know how, but it is a nagging suspicion that I have had for a while now.


The UK is truly divided, and I really don't see it ever healing Space.


Cheers,

Fans'

[space otter]

It is a little difficult to comprehend just how divided the UK is right now, whole families are at war about the Brexit situation, it was such a close vote but the actual gulf between the so called Brexiters and Re-moaners is unbridgeable in my honest opinion.

It has divided people in the main political parties as well -

The lines are drawn (as I see it, but could be wrong) in the simplest terms

Fans
you could well be describing  the u.s. at this point..
but lets step back just a bit and look at the scenario you have described and is happening around the world

without going into what side any of us take..

i ask myself..
ok are we being tested? religiously?   morally?
....or just evolving ?
does what we do matter ?
and then i ask myself
will the thought of coming back to face the results
affect what i do?

makes ya dizzy.. circling the drain?   or just evolution?

i got NO answers....still in observation mode

[ArMaP]

The lines are drawn (as I see it, but could be wrong) in the simplest terms Brexit folks want our Sovereignty back, and the stop of unlimited immigration, and to have the power removed from faceless and un-elected bureaucrats who at the moment wield an unbelievable amount of power, and we pay the second highest amount of money into the EU (£350 Millions per week) after Germany - for what?.. I have no idea ?

Remainer's are in my honest opinion deluded snowflakes who want to hug every migrant that lands on our doorstep - they don't care that we are ruled by he faceless parliament that can change our laws at will, they don't care about our Sovereignty.

The division is clear just by reading your answer, as you classify one side as "folks" and the other "deluded snowflakes", so it looks like you are not giving an unbiased answer.

One thing I always found strange when people complain about the EU ruling their country is that here in Portugal we still make our own laws. A few are transpositions of EU regulations, but they always need to go through the Portuguese parliament, the only entity that has the power to create laws in Portugal.

To me, the biggest problem with the Brexit was the fact that neither side really knew what would happen, so they picked up a couple of cool sounding sentences to use on their respective campaigns and never tried to understand what could really happen, so people voted without really knowing what could happen.

Today (or yesterday, I'm not sure) I saw a short news piece about British people living on a small town in the south of Spain, and they are worried that they could have problems with healthcare or even with getting their pensions in Spain, as things will be different after the Brexit but they still don't know how.

One thing will be true: after the Brexit, any EU citizen that wants to move to the UK to work will be an immigrant, while now they are just EU citizens, so the number of immigrants may even grow, if they update the numbers to reflect the new status of those people.

The EU may not be as good as their promoters say, but it's also not has bad as the people against it say, and undoing something that took some 40 years to build would always be causing great problems to both sides, but mostly to the UK.

[fansongecho]

I am biased indeed young ArMaP, we voted to leave, but there are many millions of people in the country who want to turn over the democratic right of the people who want to leave, and other Globalists want to keep us in, which I am not happy about. 

Didn't Poland and Hungry go against the EU policy for allowing illegal immigrants to stay in a EU country ?.  I think it was those two countries, and didn't Tusk and the EU President have a real go at them both and I seem to recall that he called their PM's "Dictators" 

You are right neither side of the political debate really knew what would happen or how to create a mechanism to help us leave the EU, and there where HUGE lies on both sides - 

In fact I know there is a movement to create a law-suit against Boris Johnson for his claims that the £350 Million per week would go towards our NHS system, he and the other Brxiteers toured the UK in a massive red bus with this en-blazoned on the side -

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/brexit-bus-e1511953625149.jpg

If we do eventually leave I will be amazed ArMaP 

Cheers,

Fans'

[zorgon]

Didn't Poland and Hungry go against the EU policy for allowing illegal immigrants to stay in a EU country ?.  I think it was those two countries, and didn't Tusk and the EU President have a real go at them both and I seem to recall that he called their PM's "Dictators" 

yes it was...


The truth about Muslim immigration - Janusz Korwin-Mikke (Polish MEP)


Polish MP: Our country is safe because we didn't accept illegal Muslim migrants


Poland and Hungary ignore EU disciplinary action

[fansongecho]

Just revisiting some old threads and came across this one, just for info if anyone outside of the UK might be interested, so much has not happened since the last post I put on here, apart from Boris Johnson getting rid of PM May and becoming our latest PM this last 80 days, and there MAY yet be a BREXIT depending now on a vote in Parliament this Saturday 19th Oct (last time we had a vote on a Saturday was in 1982) - In short the LIB-Dems want to over-turn the original Brexit and hold a second referrendum, Labour do not know what to do apart from oppose any motions that the Tory govmt put forward.

The Tories have ripped themselves apart and are now a toothless lame duck of a Govt, with 22 I think of their MP's being expelled from the Party for voting against the Govt and a Brexit proposal a couple of months back.

Boris did call for a General Election once he lost his majority, but the House politely declined his generous offering and wont buy into it until Brexit is done and dusted or not as the case maybe -

The UK is just a divided as it has been for the past 3 years with everyone entrenched in their view on Brexit, it is the same news cycle day after day.

Apparently we have a new deal with the EU but it is not politically viable with the staunch Unionist Party of Ireland and this may well block the vote tomorrow, which wont surprise anyone to be fair.

As I said above I honestly believe the Globalists have this sown up and the UK wont be leaving the EU in my lifetime.

Some useful links if you have not been following this pantomime -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/oct/17/eu-leaders-gather-for-summit-as-boris-johnson-scrambles-to-get-backing-for-brexit-deal-politics-live

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50092301

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-news-live-latest-today-brexit-news-deal-labour-a9160981.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu/brexit-on-a-knife-edge-as-pm-johnson-stakes-all-on-super-saturday-vote-idUSKBN1WX0SJ

the links above cover I hope - the political angle of the main uk parties involved, I am trying to post a non-biased flavour for you folks outside the UK. 

Peace out 

Fans'