Electrogravitics – A Simplified Description

[Mikado]

What makes a gravitor different from a capacitor?
I have no idea, Mikado, Im just trying to understand the effect YOU are seeing versus the effect I have seen.

I do know what a capacitor is, and how it is similar to a gravitor in construction, but as we see, there are many types and styles of capacitors, so to call a gravitor a capacitor is an all encompassing statement many just make out of a loss for words to describe the actual differences.

How about this: A Gravitor is to a capacitor as an Electromagnet is to a coil.

As for watts, yes, I am using the old faithful formula that works for most power measurements, and as I dont see any empirical proof of any other force taking place there, I cant say whether or not it acts like a capacitor either.

So let me understand what you are saying. The question I was asking - " So, does that mean that Ohm's law/Kirchoff's Law/Lenz' Law/Farraday's Law will still apply to the operation of a Gravitor or will there be a slight deviation?" - was to determine the electrical characteristics of the operation of a Gravitor and not simple computation of watts for there is a good deal more taking place, for example, capacitive reactance.

You further mention - "<snip>as I dont see any empirical proof of any other force taking place there,<snip>..

...didn't you mention that your Gravitors spun around? Isn't that empirical proof of some kind of force?

And in the case of the scale apparatus, I was just wondering how you did it, and not challenging anything you said. It is called asking a question, but some dont like to be asked, as they feel they are privy to "special" knowledge that noone else has.

Here is what you said:
"Am I correct in reading the device was grounded through an electronic scale?

So, the scale was the ground path? You mustbe grounde the scale platform and insulated it from the top of the scale body, eh?"

and then I said:

First, the scale was covered in mylar at .100 inches. It was NOT grounded through anything. The scale was operated by a 9 volt battery so as not to have a path to earth ground and the scale was in a plastic box. Steps were taken to ensure that NO leakage would be to earth ground since it was an electrostatic test.

Now answer me this, How is my answer a refusal to give an answer? Are you looking for an argument where none exists?

I answered your question as to how the scale was setup and your answer quoted above is argumentative which I will not bite at.

The statement about your 7.6 watt measurement was according to YOUR experiment, not mine, and the numbers for mine are quite a bit different, but as for now, Im not sharing any of that info, as it seems that it will be better shared upon a private message if I so feel.

Lets just say that there is a bit more current than that...quite a bit!

Let me refresh what your original statement was that I commented upon:

"And, Im guessing that to see 7.6 watts, you popped it with 20kv and .00038 amps?
or 40kv with .00019 amps?

Either sounds like a reasonable amount of current and voltage for an Eg test."

You were giving out Voltages and Currents and NOT Watts in the above quote. I originally gave a Voltage (14.2KV) and a Current (542 microamps), I did NOT ever give out Watts. The person that calculated the Watts was Playing With Machines".

I was attempting to point out that you apparently did NOT read what I wrote in a previous post for why else would you be making a guess as to Voltage and Current.

As far as a gravitor is concerned, what Ive built is simple and made from a series of tapering, flexible dielectric plates layered with sections of a specific metal foil I wish to not divulge, but that which has an amazing ability to stand up to repeated "pops" from the HV, and when I pop it with that voltage it swings quite well on a pendulum. im sure not spending 10 grand on any apparatus thats questionable as to it's potential, but if youve got that kind of cash laying around, go for it!

Yes I said flexible dielectric...take that to the bank!:D

First of all, you said early that you have NOT seen any empirical evidence as to a force and here you are claiming that your Gravitors are moving. Why the diametrically opposed statements? Which is true?

As to " spending 10 grand on any apparatus thats questionable as to it's potential," - well, that is the cost of research and in some circles, that amount would be considered "donut money".

Flexible dielectric's? Sure, mylar, waxed paper, clays and a host of others. Nothing new there.

Obviously Im not the electronics genius you seem to be, and I never claimed so, but my post was directly a number of questions I had, and nothing more.

You must realize, we have a reason for asking these questions, and if you take them as attacks on your credibility, well thats your problem. Sorry amigo, no disrespect intended.

I am not an electronics genius but did I NOT answer some of your questions?

As to credibility, do a search of Mikado on this website and you will see that I have no credibility according to others, of which I am sure your name will be included in the results of that search.

And, anyone reading that quote of mine will see clearly it was an observance of a mistype, so why are you reposting it as if it was an attack on your credibility? You posted 542 amps, and it sounded easily like a mistake hence the somewhat silly nature of my reply, which was done with a kind thought towards you specifically...heres the first two lines....

":oYou had me going with that 542 amps, Mikado, but I figured there was an explanation! I pictured your workshop exploding with flames when all that current shot into a gravitor, and thought..damn he's still around to tell us about it?

Hold on there a moment. Where in my post does it mention anything about "542 ?A"? It doesn't. I was commenting about your guessing the Voltage and Current and you are being argumentative since nothing about this was addressed. What was addressed was your guessing Voltage and Current when in a previous post I gave the measurements. That tells me you don't read.

Sounds like a cool experiment with a definite positive outcome!Have you tried to attach it to a paraconical pendulum yet? "

Does that sound bad to anyone else here but you?

It even includes a suggestion as to how to try a different approach, which in my opinion is the ultimate olive branch.

Attaching a Gravitor to a pendulum, an armature or any other device to see the movement in a manner you have described is nothing more than a carnival ride. If you don't see that then perhaps you can't see the necessity for controlled experiments and I don't know how to make you see that.

One good thing is this. As long as anyone builds a device as you have then the idea will stay alive and that is IMPORTANT! It affords a first hand view of the effect, the Biefeld-Brown effect. I am not judging anyone that does so. However, to analyze what is being done involves support equipment that costs a good deal more than some foil and flexible dielectrics and it even costs more than what my Gravitors have cost.

Learning costs money. Even Linda will attest to that in respect to her Father.

Yes, I have made a gravitor, using TT Browns patent drawing, and it swings from a paraconical pendulum.
Thats as far as Ive gotten in 6 months, and maybe all Ill ever see, but for me it is a successful rendition of an effect many doubt, and thats empirical enough for me.


Cheers!
Littleenki

Here is the second quote from above:

As for watts, yes, I am using the old faithful formula that works for most power measurements, and as I dont see any empirical proof of any other force taking place there, I cant say whether or not it acts like a capacitor either.

So what is it? Either you have or you haven't seen proof.

Not being argumentative, just pointing out the dichotomy you have going on in your posts which is confusing, I am sure, to others.

Mikado

[Linda Brown]

Mikado you said

"Attaching a Gravitor to a pendulum, an armature or any other device to see the movement in a manner you have described is nothing more than a carnival ride. If you don't see that then perhaps you can't see the necessity for controlled experiments and I don't know how to make you see that.

Funny..... thats what the FBI called the Pearl Harbor Experiment results in the fifties.. Nothing more than a carnival ride here folks.... move along move along move along! 

Necessity for controlled experiments? There is always that Mikado. And also a choice of who is doing the controlling.  Linda

[Mikado]

Mikado you said

"Attaching a Gravitor to a pendulum, an armature or any other device to see the movement in a manner you have described is nothing more than a carnival ride. If you don't see that then perhaps you can't see the necessity for controlled experiments and I don't know how to make you see that.

Funny..... thats what the FBI called the Pearl Harbor Experiment results in the fifties.. Nothing more than a carnival ride here folks.... move along move along move along!

It is what it is and that is what it is.

Necessity for controlled experiments? There is always that Mikado. And also a choice of who is doing the controlling.  Linda

You have not disappointed me in your answer. Keep the conspiracy stuff flowing.

Apparently, you have no clue what is meant by "controlled experiments" but thankfully, your Father did.

Mikado

[Linda Brown]

Yes, I agree with you. Thankfully he did.   Linda

[Littleenki]

Wow, Mikado so much color in your text, id have to guess your an artist!:D

You can twist and repost my words around for your pleasure, but you know what was really implied in them...not that I havent seen any empirical proof, but that possibly YOU have not.

No more can you believe what I post can I believe what you post, and it seems your sole purpose for joining this forum has been to twist and stab at others and their ideas and theories. Not to mention tha number of times you have replied with smart alecky comments, which are not necessary, And I like that you keep a dictionary next to your computer, It makes you sound much smarter.

Hobbit has it right, and what he has said in the past is finally coming to fruition here as well, and I have to wonder...what have any of us learned with you here, but to edit every post with anal retentiveness reserved typically for a proctologist.

"quote from Mikado:
...didn't you mention that your Gravitors spun around? Isn't that empirical proof of some kind of force?"

I didnt mention they spun around, but that i expect them to spin around, the one I have now swings from a paraconical pendulum, and for reasons you dont even know.

Quote from Mikado:
"...Now answer me this, How is my answer a refusal to give an answer? Are you looking for an argument where none exists?

I answered your question as to how the scale was setup and your answer quoted above is argumentative which I will not bite at.?"

Nowhere have I suggested you refused to answer that question.
Wrong again.

Quote from Mikado:
"You were giving out Voltages and Currents and NOT Watts in the above quote. I originally gave a Voltage (14.2KV) and a Current (542 microamps), I did NOT ever give out Watts. The person that calculated the Watts was Playing With Machines".

I was attempting to point out that you apparently did NOT read what I wrote in a previous post for why else would you be making a guess as to Voltage and Current."

Bzzzzz! wrong again..heres what you posted...

"Total applied Voltage was 14.2 K with an inrush of 542 ?A."

Thanks to PWM for doing the math, Im completely incompetent in that category!

Oops wrong again.

Quote from Mikado:
"Flexible dielectric's? Sure, mylar, waxed paper, clays and a host of others. Nothing new there."

Sure there is...none of those mentioned will stretch, and thats part of flexibility, in addition to the ability to fold and ripple.
My material does both, so it is truly flexible.

wrong again.

Quote from Mikado:
"Hold on there a moment. Where in my post does it mention anything about "542 ?A"? It doesn't. I was commenting about your guessing the Voltage and Current and you are being argumentative since nothing about this was addressed. What was addressed was your guessing Voltage and Current when in a previous post I gave the measurements. That tells me you don't read."

I read well, and that statement was corrected above, but heres the quote from your post on page 2 of the eg simplified thread...again...

Quote from Mikado:
"Total applied Voltage was 14.2 K with an inrush of 542 ?A.""

Ouch...wrong twice in one reply, is that a record?

Quote from Mikado:
"Attaching a Gravitor to a pendulum, an armature or any other device to see the movement in a manner you have described is nothing more than a carnival ride. If you don't see that then perhaps you can't see the necessity for controlled experiments and I don't know how to make you see that. "

Besides being rather insulting(carnival ride..they are nothing but fun!)youre clueless as to why, arent you?

Hmmm, so you dont even know why I attached it to a paraconical pendulum?
Didnt think so.
And you can look it up, as you wouldnt understand it even if I typed it in all caps.

Quote from Mikado:
"So what is it? Either you have or you haven't seen proof."

here is where I said I had proof, in the very next line from your previous quote...

"Yes, I have made a gravitor, using TT Browns patent drawing, and it swings from a paraconical pendulum.
Thats as far as Ive gotten in 6 months, and maybe all Ill ever see, but for me it is a successful rendition of an effect many doubt, and thats empirical enough for me!

What part of that is dichotomous to you, Mikado?

Stop with your desperate attacks and snippy quote reposting, as it makes you appear to be quite combative to me, and noone here will ever say I am combative in any way, so your shooting blanks my friend.

Le

[zorgon]

NOTE: apparently the font to support "micro" or "mu" is not available. The current should have read as "542 microamps" and not "?A".

Yes the unicode characters do not display in this current overlay. Its a nuisance but the last time I fixed it the software upgrade messed it up again and this style sheet is no longer supported

I need to find a php programmer to come on board so we can fix the style sheets manually There are over 4000 style sheets on this forum and making even a small change sends ripples

[Littleenki]

Aha, Zorgon, that makes sense to me, as in my original post I was like" wow, 542 amps?"

LOL! I weld with less than that!

I wish I could help with the programming, but Im woefully bad at even html, hence my ancient website Ive given up on years ago!

Thanks for the clarification, Z!
Le

[Linda Brown]

I must be tired. I read "  forum and making even a small change sends ripples" from Zorgon three times and saw Nipples each time. My mind is taking itself on its own vacation I think!!!  Linda

[Littleenki]

Hehehe! Linda! I saw the same thing!LOL!
I guess all that copy and paste made my brain see stars!

Hey how about a new drink? A Ripply Nipple?

Oh dear, time for more coffee!

I certainly hope you understand my platform above with Mikado, as you know Ive never been confrontational and just felt I was being unduly singled out by him.

It's OK, with all the swimming I do, his remarks and half truths are sliding of my back like a proud mallard flying around that beautiful lakehouse you once visited!


Hugs!
Littleenki

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

Hi all,
There's far too much bickering & quoting going on, it's a waste of precious bytes, OK?
So i will refrain from quoting too much myself this time, i assume you can all remember what you said?

This series of experiments were designed to establish a base for free EG that might occur naturally in nature and were not designed to substantiate the Biefeld-Brown effect which is something totally different. However, it does exhibit signs that EG may very well be as natural as lightning is in the EM.

I agree with what you are saying, but how can it be different from the BB effect?, it has been broadly discussed & generally agreed to be an 'electro-gravitational' force, or reaction may be a better word.
'Displacement' is even better.
Maybe you missed my posts on the exact likeness to the work of Podkletnov & others.

It's too much of a coincidence to be wrong.
Given Brown's penchant for 'rocks', he was clearly studying the origin of EG signals, rather than the more obvious antigravity applications, and the very nature of these effects maybe interested him more than other aspects.....

And lastly, it sang for a brief moment with a sound I never heard before. It must have thrown out one he11 of an EG pulse but then, no one showed up either. No Morgan, no twigsnapper, no MIB, no aliens and it has been quite awhile.

All i can say is, you were lucky
OK i have to agree with you up to a point, because i have been sending all kinds of pulses, HF signals, and more recently, EG signals.
That last is not advisable until we learn more about it, and can prove it's not being used already.

I'm not that hard to track down, i'm not that bothered, everything i know is out on the net anyway, and of course i'm just a lone inventor, one of many thousands who can do this, and more.

Keep experimenting and don't fear the bogey man but then, keep your anonymity until you are done and then present to the public. Just read what has been posted here in regard to Paul Brown and others.

I intend to
The FBI know where i live, so it's not a big deal, i asked them to come here & shoot me if they could prove what i did was illegal.....
First i present it to the forum here, then it all goes in the official write-up.
This will be made 'open source' when the time is right.

I have read Paul Brown's letters, here's one of them;




This is his version of Godin & Roschin's 'poor man's Searl' project.
I could write a book on that or at least a thread.....

10 grand! i would think, Mikado, that you are using some exotic materials for it, good for you.

First of all, i have been trying T.T.Brown's original experiments, using locally available dielectrics, and more recently more exotic ones. The point was to verify this work, which has been done, and to try to find the mechanism behind it.

All the boogeyman talk is being covered in the 'dangers of electrogravitics' thread :O

Littleenki;

Yes, I have made a gravitor, using TT Browns patent drawing, and it swings from a paraconical pendulum.
Thats as far as Ive gotten in 6 months, and maybe all Ill ever see, but for me it is a successful rendition of an effect many doubt, and thats empirical enough for me.

Definitely!
I think we can safely move on from 'does it work?' to 'how can we improve it?'
As has been duly presented by LaViolette, a higk-K dielectric such as a Barium Titanate/Hafnium alloy, with maybe some Tellurium & or Tantalum thrown in for good measure will do the job.
Expensive
It would be powered by a resonating HV field of millions of volts, powered by something like a 'flame jet' generator.

That's only half the story, the other half is inertia control, where rotating magnets come in handy, but may or may not be directly related to inertia per se.

Reading on through this thread, i was the one who calculated the 7.6 watts. 7.588 if i remember, given your original data Mikado, so yes, LE misread a decimal point here & there, please don't bite his head off

A pendulum or rotator is a good empirical method for measuring thrust or 'displacement', but a scale is more tricky, how would you know, for example, that the strong EM field from & around the gravitor cause a misreading in the electronic scale? A balance experiment might give better results, as i'm sure you know.

Brown chose the rotating version precisely because it had the 'wow' factor, and could be repeated in a vacuum. Call it a carnival ride if you wish, this was the 40's remember.....

Mikado:
If you & Linda have an axe to grind, go ahead, but you are both wasting your time IMHO.

Can we please get back to the O.P. and discuss it in a civilised manner?
I for one have no problem with you, i take everything you tell me in good faith, but i will analyse everything to the smallest detail.
So let's talk about the science involved, if you are up for it?
Can we talk frequencies, for example?
PWM

[Mikado]

Wow, Mikado so much color in your text, id have to guess your an artist!:D

You can twist and repost my words around for your pleasure, but you know what was really implied in them...not that I havent seen any empirical proof, but that possibly YOU have not.

No more can you believe what I post can I believe what you post, and it seems your sole purpose for joining this forum has been to twist and stab at others and their ideas and theories. Not to mention tha number of times you have replied with smart alecky comments, which are not necessary, And I like that you keep a dictionary next to your computer, It makes you sound much smarter.

Hobbit has it right, and what he has said in the past is finally coming to fruition here as well, and I have to wonder...what have any of us learned with you here, but to edit every post with anal retentiveness reserved typically for a proctologist.

"quote from Mikado:
...didn't you mention that your Gravitors spun around? Isn't that empirical proof of some kind of force?"

I didnt mention they spun around, but that i expect them to spin around, the one I have now swings from a paraconical pendulum, and for reasons you dont even know.

Quote from Mikado:
"...Now answer me this, How is my answer a refusal to give an answer? Are you looking for an argument where none exists?

I answered your question as to how the scale was setup and your answer quoted above is argumentative which I will not bite at.?"

Nowhere have I suggested you refused to answer that question.
Wrong again.

Quote from Mikado:
"You were giving out Voltages and Currents and NOT Watts in the above quote. I originally gave a Voltage (14.2KV) and a Current (542 microamps), I did NOT ever give out Watts. The person that calculated the Watts was Playing With Machines".

I was attempting to point out that you apparently did NOT read what I wrote in a previous post for why else would you be making a guess as to Voltage and Current."

Bzzzzz! wrong again..heres what you posted...

"Total applied Voltage was 14.2 K with an inrush of 542 ?A."

Thanks to PWM for doing the math, Im completely incompetent in that category!

Oops wrong again.

Quote from Mikado:
"Flexible dielectric's? Sure, mylar, waxed paper, clays and a host of others. Nothing new there."

Sure there is...none of those mentioned will stretch, and thats part of flexibility, in addition to the ability to fold and ripple.
My material does both, so it is truly flexible.

wrong again.

Quote from Mikado:
"Hold on there a moment. Where in my post does it mention anything about "542 ?A"? It doesn't. I was commenting about your guessing the Voltage and Current and you are being argumentative since nothing about this was addressed. What was addressed was your guessing Voltage and Current when in a previous post I gave the measurements. That tells me you don't read."

I read well, and that statement was corrected above, but heres the quote from your post on page 2 of the eg simplified thread...again...

Quote from Mikado:
"Total applied Voltage was 14.2 K with an inrush of 542 ?A.""

Ouch...wrong twice in one reply, is that a record?

Quote from Mikado:
"Attaching a Gravitor to a pendulum, an armature or any other device to see the movement in a manner you have described is nothing more than a carnival ride. If you don't see that then perhaps you can't see the necessity for controlled experiments and I don't know how to make you see that. "

Besides being rather insulting(carnival ride..they are nothing but fun!)youre clueless as to why, arent you?

Hmmm, so you dont even know why I attached it to a paraconical pendulum?
Didnt think so.
And you can look it up, as you wouldnt understand it even if I typed it in all caps.

Quote from Mikado:
"So what is it? Either you have or you haven't seen proof."

here is where I said I had proof, in the very next line from your previous quote...

"Yes, I have made a gravitor, using TT Browns patent drawing, and it swings from a paraconical pendulum.
Thats as far as Ive gotten in 6 months, and maybe all Ill ever see, but for me it is a successful rendition of an effect many doubt, and thats empirical enough for me!

What part of that is dichotomous to you, Mikado?

Stop with your desperate attacks and snippy quote reposting, as it makes you appear to be quite combative to me, and noone here will ever say I am combative in any way, so your shooting blanks my friend.

Le

Red were your quotes and yellow were mine. If you read it, you would have noticed. Instead you still didn't get what I was saying.

When you want to make a point and answer a quote, try to put it in the proper perspective so others may comprehend "who said what". Your post is difficult to follow and speaking of twists, you do a very good job. Just look at your responses, so very bombastic. I was not wrong in anything I said, you just didn't comprehend it. Which doesn't surprise me in the least.

I answered your questions and you argued. When you want to be open minded and comprehend what I write and not be influenced by others than perhaps this discussion can continue.

There was nothing snippy except your above post.

Best,

Mikado

[Littleenki]

Greetings, PWM!
That poor mans searl sounds cool, and the parts dont seem to pricey. Have you any drawings, or are there any online?

I have a ton of neos laying round, and the caps and other parts, too, it's the silicone/steel cores you know Im eyeing up!

Do you think some of my magnetite cores would suffice? I can cast them in any shape, as you know, and even make molds for more in the process.

Searl had quite a dandy with his generator, so it would be cool to build a smaller version to upgrade later if successful.

As long as we lock it into a vise when firing it!:D

Le

[Littleenki]

No thanks, 
Le

[1Worldwatcher]

We must all keep in mind the value of the research that we inquire about, any naysayers would scough at the belittling that is happening here, anyone can read a post to their liking, bu tit does sometimes get misconstrued as either fascist remarks or some what intensive moments of understanding one another.
So, All I can really add for the topic at hand is"Read with diligence and respect" do not over presume what the emotion is going across from one person's post too another, it is a difficult thing to understand writing as an emotional placement of discussion, but more times than not, it does get convoluted for the proper digestion of such statements and rhetorical remarks.
PWM's and Mikado, there are difference's of analogies, we all know this for being fact, but, I do respect you both with what you have to offer, there may be some inner connecting facts that both of you have brought to the table for deliberation, litigation and deductive reasoning, but whether or not either one is correct or incorrect, it remains as a "possibility" to a numerous area of expectations.
There has been no one on this forum that has brought forth a working model or an irrefutable mathematical evaluation, we are all in this together, let us all work together as a team, squabble can be done via PM's or another chatroom.

Very interesting finds though, and very pertinent too what we are trying to achieve here at the PRC, we have the smartest cookies of any Forum, let's keep that our first priority folks.

1Worldwatcher

[Linda Brown]

The OP here really is a tough one. Electrogravitics.... A Simplified Description. Obviously it is not all that simple but it is gratifying to see so many who have some what of a grasp of the technology.

Linda