Undo's Super Gripe

[hobbit]

Divide et impera.
Religions are invented to assist in the agenda of control over this planets populations.
Humans are easily persuaded to be believers, and to defend that belief with their lives.
Whatever side at differing times creates murder of other beliefs are merely acting out the drama created to divide and conquer.
Your thread displays this to perfection.
hobbit

[undo11]

Divide et impera.
Religions are invented to assist in the agenda of control over this planets populations.
Humans are easily persuaded to be believers, and to defend that belief with their lives.
Whatever side at differing times creates murder of other beliefs are merely acting out the drama created to divide and conquer.
Your thread displays this to perfection.
hobbit

has it never dawned on you that your world view is also a means of dividing people of your particular beliefs from that of others?   you're making excuses now for genocide.  there's no excuse.  none.   n.o.n.e.

i am not and will not be held responsible for sh it, other people do.  i will not and refuse to ever, accept that i'm an idiot, a puppet or a less than human, human being.   insisting that other people are subpar because of their world view, skin color, gender, or nationality, is the fodder for genocide. it starts by claiming they are stupid and moves on from there. 

muslims are not subhuman. europeans are not subhumans.  africans are not subhuman, no matter their dna.  ever hear about the tutsis and hutus in rwanda?  the entire thing, from beginning to end, was about classifying some people as subhuman, incapable of ruling themselves (when the tutsis were in power) and in the end, resulted in ethnic cleansing of unbelievable proportions.   all tutsis were blamed for what a few tutsis did.  THIS FORUM HAS MANY EXAMPLES OF THAT SAME MINDSET.

"christians are ignorant puppets"
"religious people are ignorant puppets"

well let's see about doing some comparative analysis shall we?  do i even have to mention mao?  no?  pol pot?  stalin? 

you're being very smug about this and it is not a matter to be smug about.  people's lives are in the balance here.

are you caucasian? 

[Amaterasu]

note the date on this. warning:  video of nigerian christians, men women and children, burnt to death, hacked to death, shot, and otherwise murdered.  also, quite a bit of suffering being vocalized by the people who have lived to endure the loss and inhumanity of it.  i realize people are frustrated with religion and/or christianity, but good freakn' grief people. this is over the freakin' top.

So is the persecution of [fill in the religious group] which kills many.  This is happening to a number of different groups and at various points in history.  I seem to recall Christians persecuting Jews and Muslims...  Yes, the divide and conquer tactics work very well when seeding groups with disparate religious beliefs and the message that Theirs is the "one true belief" and They should kill "heretics."

Nothing new in this.

[rdunk]

Divide et impera.
Religions are invented to assist in the agenda of control over this planets populations.
Humans are easily persuaded to be believers, and to defend that belief with their lives.
Whatever side at differing times creates murder of other beliefs are merely acting out the drama created to divide and conquer.
Your thread displays this to perfection.
hobbit

Hello hobbit. Well, I suppose what you said, you believe as fact. Unfortunately, I take what you said as mostly nonsense. Maybe that thinking is a part of someone's fairy tale somewhere, but that is not what is happening in the reality I have known for a lot of years.

Of course, anyone can have their own opinions about any subject, but opinions based upon areas where there has been no personal involvement are just that - "opinions". A really good thing about the PRC forum is that we all can express our thoughts and opinions on posted subjects, but never ever should we assume that everyone, nor even anyone, agrees with our opinions, unless so stated.

It was not by any man's "persuasion" that I became a Christian. I made my own decision to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior.  And I believe that is the case for most everyone I know! At that point there is a supernatural "spiritual" change made by God in a person. And yes, that is just the beginning of learning about and living the life of a Christian. God's word does tell us how to live, and how we are to live with others, but in no way do I consider that to be "acting out the drama created to divide and conquer", as you stated!

hobbit, I cannot equate what you said relative to other "religions", since I have no knowledge of them at all, however, I would suspect your thoughts to be basically humanistic (which you are human) opinions for those also. 

[undo11]

So is the persecution of [fill in the religious group] which kills many.  This is happening to a number of different groups and at various points in history.  I seem to recall Christians persecuting Jews and Muslims...  Yes, the divide and conquer tactics work very well when seeding groups with disparate religious beliefs and the message that Theirs is the "one true belief" and They should kill "heretics."

Nothing new in this.

okay, now i know you've read what jesus said. what part of his words leads you to believe the people persecuting jews and muslims were "christians" or, rather, behaving in a "christian" manner?  notice when i posted that video, i did not mention it was muslims doing it, because that's not realistic.  it's genocide, brought about by the near non-stop villification of religion and christianity in particular.

here, this will explain it better:  in america, when you go in the hospital, they ask you what your faith is so they know who to call to officiate your passing from this world to the next, should the event arise.  in other parts of the world, they claim the usa is almost entire christian, but many of the people who say "christian" on the hospital form, say that because they were born into that religion, even if they don't practice it.   being born into a religion does not actually make you that religion.  you have to make an actual adult decision to follow that faith for to have any bearing.

why did i bring that up? cause some of the people in those other countries that think this nation is almost entirely christian, are blaming all americans for what a few americans do and they are making sure to point out it's "Christians" doing it.  even if the person is agnostic, if they don't state that on their hospital records, it gets published that way.

in places like australia, they actually think americans all carry guns and are all living like the wild west on steroids. they think we are all violent, obese, ignoramuses. where'd they get that idea?  i can tell you:  because it's the plan to genocide christians, particularly white christians or just white people in general, and america is a big neon target, flashing away as our "Elected democratic" government forces its will on the rest of the planet, while claiming its driven by "christianity."   

what is christianity? it's the belief in the teachings of jesus. what were the teachings of jesus?  that we're all a rag tag group of screw ups, there's no master race, and we're all equal in the sight of god.  we should forgive those who wrong us, turn the other cheek and basically get abused by people who think they are better than us.  what would happen if real christians actually started to defend themselves?

it would not be pretty, as they have a long list of actual abuses against them in their own lives. RIGHT NOW. not in the middle ages, not in the dark ages, not in the old testament days, not in sumer, but right this minute. 

[undo11]

p.s. more christians have been killed by other "christians" than other religions have been killed by other "christians". that should tell you something right there.   just cause you say you're a christian, doesn't mean you are.  that's why i don't assume it's muslims killing christians in africa, because just cause you're born muslim, doesn't mean you're actually a muslim.

[Linda Brown]

Undo.... you go too far sometimes. Do you realize it?

Try this for size.

in places like Australia, they actually think Americans all carry guns and are all living like the wild west on steroids. they think we are all violent, obese, ignoramuses. where'd they get that idea?  i can tell you:  because it's the plan to genocide Christians, particularly white Christians or just white people in general, and America is a big neon target, flashing away as our "Elected democratic" government forces its will on the rest of the planet, while claiming its driven by "Christianity." 

The only one that I have seen promoting this idea in this entire Forum has been you. You keep saying that agenda is out there but one has to wonder if it is actually or just your perception. I don't buy your perception. Its the PLAN?? That's what YOU see. That does not make it the truth.

I also would not blame an outsider for thinking.... lets see.... how did you put it...

"they actually think Americans all carry guns and are all living like the wild west on steroids. they think we are all violent, obese, ignoramuses. where'd they get that idea?

Have you sat in a Mall Food Court recently? Have you read that about the only business that is actually BOOMING right now is the sale of small fire arms? As far as ignoramuses..... do you note that some of the polls taken regarding teaching standards, especially in the science and math departments are 28th in the WORLD?  That might not make us the most stupid but we are not in the top five percent..... that's for sure....

That we are trigger happy? Tell that same visitor to drive down certain neighborhoods in LA and see further what he thinks......

And you excuse us for that? I don't.

I also don't see the grand plan to persecute Christians that you seem to promote by your opposition to it.

Linda

[Amaterasu]

okay, now i know you've read what jesus said. what part of his words leads you to believe the people persecuting jews and muslims were "christians" or, rather, behaving in a "christian" manner?  notice when i posted that video, i did not mention it was muslims doing it, because that's not realistic.  it's genocide, brought about by the near non-stop villification of religion and christianity in particular.

People calling Themselves "Christian" created the Inquisition...  Whether the behavior was "Christian" or not.  I surely never said that ugly behavior choices conform with the message of Jesus.  My point is that (especially) in "Christian" and "Muslim" claimants, atrocities have occurred/been perpetrated in the respective religion's name.  Other religions' adherents are not blameless in this behavior, but the dogma is less intolerant in most other religions.

here, this will explain it better:  in america, when you go in the hospital, they ask you what your faith is so they know who to call to officiate your passing from this world to the next, should the event arise.  in other parts of the world, they claim the usa is almost entire christian, but many of the people who say "christian" on the hospital form, say that because they were born into that religion, even if they don't practice it.   being born into a religion does not actually make you that religion.  you have to make an actual adult decision to follow that faith for to have any bearing.

why did i bring that up? cause some of the people in those other countries that think this nation is almost entirely christian, are blaming all americans for what a few americans do and they are making sure to point out it's "Christians" doing it.  even if the person is agnostic, if they don't state that on their hospital records, it gets published that way.

in places like australia, they actually think americans all carry guns and are all living like the wild west on steroids. they think we are all violent, obese, ignoramuses. where'd they get that idea?  i can tell you:  because it's the plan to genocide christians, particularly white christians or just white people in general, and america is a big neon target, flashing away as our "Elected democratic" government forces its will on the rest of the planet, while claiming its driven by "christianity."   

what is christianity? it's the belief in the teachings of jesus. what were the teachings of jesus?  that we're all a rag tag group of screw ups, there's no master race, and we're all equal in the sight of god.  we should forgive those who wrong us, turn the other cheek and basically get abused by people who think they are better than us.  what would happen if real christians actually started to defend themselves?

it would not be pretty, as they have a long list of actual abuses against them in their own lives. RIGHT NOW. not in the middle ages, not in the dark ages, not in the old testament days, not in sumer, but right this minute.

While I agree with most of what You're saying, I think the target is America, not Christians per se.  That some figures suggest We are "mostly Christian," and that is then taken further to suggest perhaps that local Christians are in some way in sympathy with the US (who has, at the top levels, been choosing to bomb People, going "preemptively" to war, and otherwise throwing weight around in Our name).

And surely there is someOne behind these divide-and-conquer tactics.  Railing against Us here, who value the principles if not the dogma of the true Christian, is energy better spent moving in on Those who promulgate the ideas that Christianity =US oppression.

[undo11]

linda,

small firearms are on the rise because people are being prepared for violent revolution, during which a whole lot of whites and particularly christians, are gonna be genocided.  it's all over the internet. it's on the news. it's in other conspiracy forums.  it's everywhere.  music videos.  newspapers.  tv news.  magazines. 

the democratic party initially, was for slavery and fought tooth and nail to keep it. the republican party were against slavery and fought tooth and nail to eradicate it.  now its presented as the complete opposite, in every text book, music video, college university and newspaper article from the democrats.  why? because the plan is to blame white people for what the democrats did, themselves, 200 years ago.  not you as a democrat, but the original democrats.  you as a democrat (if you are a democrat) are not responsible for what democrats did 200 years ago! 

now who is using the democratic party to make it seem like whites and christians in particular are the problem, when republican white christians were among those ones fighting to free the blacks from the slavery of the south???  well republicans of today cannot lay claim to what the republicans of 200 years ago did, unless they show evidence of having the same desire, i.e. unless they show evidence of not wanting to enslave us all to a central government. 

we need to understand what slavery is in order to see just who is up to this and what their intent is.  i've been actively investigating it all, and i can tell you, that's what all the indications are. 

[hobbit]

Undo11,
          I really do like You.
I will not though give any organised religion any respect.
I will give anyone full respect for their personal belief.
Onward christian soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of jesus going on before.
Before jesus was a story of mithras.
Previous to that was a story of horus.
ALL these stories are based on solar occurances, and especially the PINCH points in the very large birkeland currents that provide compressed inputs, such as We are presently experiencing.
At these pinch points certain people will far easier attain the christos elevation when the serpents awake from the base chakra.
Right now , the flows of the serpents are going OFF My scale personal ability to find their flow flow rates.
The moon is working it's magic, watch out for the consequences.

IMHO( in my hobbit opinion)
it is time to awaken from the veil of organised religions.
To not allow them to draw oneself into their drama, to rid ourselves of these shackles and realise our full potentials .

You display a great intelligence, and are thus capable of been drawn extra further into the drama, and thus been USED as a zealot cheer leader for the belief You have been indoctrinated with.
Do not attack Me, do not allow Yourself to be used in this manner...PLEASE.
hobbit

[undo11]

People calling Themselves "Christian" created the Inquisition...  Whether the behavior was "Christian" or not.  I surely never said that ugly behavior choices conform with the message of Jesus.  My point is that (especially) in "Christian" and "Muslim" claimants, atrocities have occurred/been perpetrated in the respective religion's name.  Other religions' adherents are not blameless in this behavior, but the dogma is less intolerant in most other religions.

While I agree with most of what You're saying, I think the target is America, not Christians per se.  That some figures suggest We are "mostly Christian," and that is then taken further to suggest perhaps that local Christians are in some way in sympathy with the US (who has, at the top levels, been choosing to bomb People, going "preemptively" to war, and otherwise throwing weight around in Our name).

And surely there is someOne behind these divide-and-conquer tactics.  Railing against Us here, who value the principles if not the dogma of the true Christian, is energy better spent moving in on Those who promulgate the ideas that Christianity =US oppression.

AMATERASU,

the inquistion killed more christians than any other religion on the planet. this is the part that's repeatedly left out of the story because the plan is to blame ALL christians for what a few christians did..  they killed non catholic christians, gnostic christians, druids, pagans of various stripes, but the biggest target were  non-catholic CHRISTIANS.   

if i say  my name is amaterasu, it doesn't actually mean i'm amaterasu.

[undo11]

Undo11,
          I really do like You.
I will not though give any organised religion any respect.
I will give anyone full respect for their personal belief.
Onward christian soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of jesus going on before.
Before jesus was a story of mithras.
Previous to that was a story of horus.
ALL these stories are based on solar occurances, and especially the PINCH points in the very large birkeland currents that provide compressed inputs, such as We are presently experiencing.
At these pinch points certain people will far easier attain the christos elevation when the serpents awake from the base chakra.
Right now , the flows of the serpents are going OFF My scale personal ability to find their flow flow rates.
The moon is working it's magic, watch out for the consequences.

IMHO( in my hobbit opinion)
it is time to awaken from the veil of organised religions.
To not allow them to draw oneself into their drama, to rid ourselves of these shackles and realise our full potentials .

You display a great intelligence, and are thus capable of been drawn extra further into the drama, and thus been USED as a zealot cheer leader for the belief You have been indoctrinated with.
Do not attack Me, do not allow Yourself to be used in this manner...PLEASE.
hobbit

i'm not attacking you, i'm defending myself because at the moment, you people are scaring the sh it out of me.

[undo11]

ama,

i missed this part cause i have this like seething anger of being blamed for stuff other people did or do.  i'm sick and tired of it and i'm pretty sure everyone else is as well.  we just need to apply this all around and not leave some people out of the equation by perpetuating the myth that "Christians" did this or that, when there's not one ounce of proof that the people doing it, were actually christians.

And surely there is someOne behind these divide-and-conquer tactics.  Railing against Us here, who value the principles if not the dogma of the true Christian, is energy better spent moving in on Those who promulgate the ideas that Christianity =US oppression.

yes indeedy, there is someone doing it, but who is the question.  for example, did you read the "all roads lead to rome" thread on ats?  do you think he's right?

[rdunk]

Undo quote:

Okay, I think it's time I made a thread on the subject of religion so that other members can understand my position on it, and perhaps think a moment before saying something.

My first really big gripe is, i see all this negative press and the constant complaining about religion and religious people, as a lead up to a massacre of "biblical proportions".   Don't, not even for five seconds, think that while you're saying you care about me and what happens to me, and then turn around and say the exact opposite, that i'm not paying attention.  I am.   I know the difference between "We love ya man," and "We think we're better than you because you're religious." 

Also, since we're on the subject, what's with all the finger pointing at religion every time a religious person does something stupid or against their own rules?  IT'S THEIR RULES, NOT YOURS. sheesh, cripes all mighty.  Haven't we learned FROM THE MISTAKES OF RELIGION, that micromanaging everyones screw ups and demanding they behave more appropriately (so loosely defined that it's a craps shoot whether your version of what's okay will even remotely resemble someone else's), is an exercise in tyranny?  I have my own brain, thank you.  don't you??

what is Christianity? it's the belief in the teachings of Jesus. what were the teachings of Jesus?  that we're all a rag tag group of screw ups, there's no master race, and we're all equal in the sight of god.  we should forgive those who wrong us, turn the other cheek and basically get abused by people who think they are better than us.  what would happen if real Christians actually started to defend themselves?

*******************************************************************

Undo, I have copied a part of your OP here, and then also a paragraph from your most recent reply. Thanks so much for stating, in your own words, what to you Christianity is! Obviously, it takes the entire Bible to express all that Christianity is, but you did a great job of making a simple statement that is easy for everyone to understand!

Yes, it is all about Jesus. He is what the entire Bible is all about. Even the Old Testament is full of foretelling the coming of the Messiah. Christianity is about God, and the promises of God to his people, for now, and for all eternity, for those who accept Jesus, as his Son, and as Lord and Savior from eternal hell.

While we live in this world, we live as man in the flesh. However, God is Spirit, and there are evil spirits (satan) on this Earth. While Jesus has won the battle for man already, for those who accept him, the spiritual battle continues. All of us, including the saved Christians and all of mankind, will continue to be a part of the spiritual battle, until God and Jesus again say "it is finished".

This battle is just an "ongoing of situational paradox" (my term). The "lost" (non-Christian) fight the battle however they can, with the human mind, and human tools. The Christians really do have the advantage, because in the Bible, God tells us about the 'fight', and he tells us to "put on the whole armor off God" (spiritual armor) to fight the battle. The fight is against the "wiles of the devil", and not against men.

So Undo, the "fight/battle" is everywhere, and when we get up every morning, we just know the war is still on, and shouldn't be surprised when the "shots are fired" (fiery darts), even from people we "know".
Yes, you did mention "turning the other cheek", which sounds like nonsense to man's mind, but in the Spirit, that is how the battle is won.

That is God's way, for us, to deal with everyone. When we put him first, then who can be against us? Doesn't make any difference what others may say, because when they say it, we can know it is as if they said it to God. For God says in his Word:

Romans 12:19
"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord".

So Undo, your comments seem to reflect how some, if not most of us feel at times. But, God intends for us to grow beyond where the "world" is in such things, and we can, at all times, be in his "peace" in him, and at "peace" with ourselves and everyone, until he comes/the rapture!!!!

Again, thanks for posting

[hobbit]

Undo 11,
               Fear is all there is to fear.
Fear thy god.
Fear is used to shrink Your personal field diameter, if enough fear is attracted to You , Your vehicle will curl up into a fetal position.

We , that is those upon here who are debating with You ,are doing so to help You.
To try and explain our comprehension of how organised religions are designed to create conflict
This is done by very very clever programmers.

I was subjected to a massive download of information that set Me off rambling along to find the questions to the information I was subjected to.
I spent a couple of years delving into organised religions, especially abbot suger.
I wanted to demolish the churchs etc.
I was full of hate for them, but.

I was drawn to Cornwall...mysteriously, and went to a very special well, the trees are adhorned with clotties( small shreds of cloths) , as I came out of the well, which is down in a sort of small cave, a man was stood above it smiling at Me.
He asked me ..."why are You so angry Kevin"
I replied .."Kevin"
And asked how he knew My name.
He smiled and asked if I would like to hear the words again...I asked what words???
He said..." forgive them, as they could not know, time as such as time is ,was not right....it is now, and WE are amazed at You.
I asked who's the WE???
He again smiled and said I KNEW, but couldn't remember.
I suddenly realised that I had FORGIVEN the churchs... and He said thats better.
I asked Him who he was , and again He told Me I knew, then said His name was Stephen, and We had met many times before, and I would remember ever more soon.

We had quite a long conversation after that , then He walked off.

You can only KNOW that which You are indoctrinated with , and that is within the time flows You are subjected to, We can attain further KNOWING by expanding our field diameters that enables access to different dimensions that have much much more knowledge.
There are though entities residing in these dimensions that do not want many to attain this, or have,nt wanted previously many to attain acess, but thats about to end.
Please understand We care.
All is ONE....very litterally, and it's fantastic beyond explanation.
hobbit