Undo's Super Gripe

[undo11]

I must be hitting a nerve?

hitting your own nerve? cause you're the one that removed it.

[rdunk]

for those who weren't familar with my stance on scripture:

For the record:

i don't agree with some things the catholic church teaches or taught.

i don't agree with some things the scientific community teaches regarding this mentioned in the bible. whereas other things in science have helped me better understand the bible.   

i don't agree with some things the protestant churches teach, or the mormon church etc.

i don't agree with some things pagan based beliefs teach.

i don't agree with some of my former beliefs and i may find reason in the future not to agree with other points i currently hold.  i have learned not to be so solidly glued to one position that nothing else is valid, although there are some areas i'm adamant about or close to adamant.

i don't believe there's an actual burning hellfire of torment.  i think that's a misunderstanding about the lake of fire references and the lake of fire references i believe, are references to event horizons on wormholes, particularly gated wormholes.

i don't think jesus views homosexuals as any more or less evil than anyone else.  he even points out that even thinking about doing a thing is the equivalent of doing it, in god's sight, so if it's that precise we're all in the same boat.   

i am not a stereotype.  please refrain from lumping me and other people into stereotypes.  thank you.

Hi Undo! With what you just said, I can see a little more into who you are, and where you are, relative to your "faith". And, your comments touch upon one of the biggest problems in Christianity, that in the end separates us, rather than bringing us together. That is, "Christianity" has evolved to the point of being an umbrella of many "different religions", so to speak. Now, we have the Catholic Church(s) the Protestant Church(s), the Episcopalian Church(s), the Mormon Church(s) and etc. Then within the Protestant Church, we have the Baptist Church(s), the Methodist Church(s), the Church of Christ Church(s), the Pentecostal Church(s), the full Gospel Church(s), and etc..

Everyone of these religious organizations teach and/or preach some form of the Word of God. However, each has decided what the correct interpretation of God's Word is. And that interpretation, in the end, is somewhat different, across the board, with all of these Churches. And that guarantees "misinterpretation", and that is an absolute abomination from Hell itself, and a large cause of confusion and problems, in the World, with Christianity.

So, Undo, with that said, with considerable basis for the factual reality of the actual position of "the Church",  it is no wonder many Christians get off-track, and/or disgusted with themselves and the Church. So many of the Christians today, either belong to a "Pick-and-Choose" Church, or on their own, have become "Pick-and-Choose Christians. Pick-and-Choose Christians/Churches are those that decide what parts of the Word of God they believe and accept, and what parts they don't accept.

Well Undo, you have said pretty directly that there are things in the Word that you don't believe, or accept. I am no expert, but, it is quite possible that some of your problems (which you have mentioned) may be related to some of your positions on God's Word - ie denying what it states. Jesus says in the Word, that there were things he wanted to do, but could not, "because of their unbelief".

The fact of God's word is, it is alive! And for the most part, especially in the new Testament, it is pretty simply stated, in relative understandable words. As Christians. what we all need to do, is to quit listening solely to others about what the Word says. We need to read and study the word ourselves, letting the Holy Spirit in us help with the understanding. 

When Gods Word says a thing directly, there is no reason, nor place, for us to say "I don't believe or accept that!!! God has given us a Christians, "all power", through the Holy Spirit, that he promised to us, as believers. That "power" would be neutralized (for us), by our/any unbelief!!

The Word of God is not up for debate! According to the word:

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Mark 13:31
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Luke 21:33
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

[undo11]

yeah but those are jesus' words, not paul's words or john's words. although paul and john were awesome guys, they were just men, equivalent to let's say, moses.  and if you recall, jesus had one heckuva time trying to explain to those who viewed everything moses said as straight from the mouth of god, that such strict adherence to the teachings of men, even inspired men, in opposition to the teachings of god, which are spiritual, is dangerous, and why it is dangerous.  he even gave an example by pointing to how the extreme application lead to things like the comfortable position of assuming women were always at fault if men couldn't contain their own sexual urges.  he laid the real law down on that in a few words.  you are responsible for your own thoughts, not the person who is stepping on your toe or walking by in a bikini. 

he even pointed out how even thinking about doing something wrong was the equivalent of doing it, in god's sight, and as a result, why his advent was even necessary in the first place.

so the only reason you would want to refrain from doing it in the sight of men (since you already screwed it  up in the sight of god, which is what really counts) is to lessen the chances of being a point of negativity for other humans.

some people get hung up on words, real bad.  for example, i had an entire conversation with an atheist gentlemen who had some interest in the teachings of zen buddhism, in which i spoke to him in paraphrased bible scripture. he completely agreed with me.  as soon as i told him it was paraphrased bible scripture, he accused me of being a hindu.  he couldn't handle that he had actually agreed with christian and jewish teachings from the bible, simply put into average every day language. 

some christians do the same thing.  some non-christians do the same thing. etc. i think it's a human proclivity.

[A51Watcher]

Sometimes posts just disappear around here for some unknown reason.

But perhaps they should have been (known) ahead of time.

[undo11]

Sometimes posts just disappear around here for some unknown reason.

But perhaps they should have been (known) ahead of time.

i could go grab it from the deleted posts forum, in fact, i even have a screen grab of it having been deleted by hobbit himself. not sure why he would delete his own post and then insinuate that "he must've hit a nerve" (who's nerve? his own?)

[undo11]

holy toledo, someone is going thru delieting posts from this thread.  i see one of mine in there too and one of 1worldwatcher's, as well.  1ww's was first, mine was second and hobbit's was third.  and it's listed as if we each deleted our own posts.

[Amaterasu]

Sounds like We should get in touch with zorg...

[undo11]

oh and now they have been deleted from the deleted posts forum (threads for review).  but i still have the screen capture of them in the main list.  see attached.

[undo11]

Sounds like We should get in touch with zorg...

agreed! we need to know what IP is deleting posts.

[A51Watcher]

All 'missing' posts still exist and are not deleted.

They are currently in the 'Threads for Review by Mods' forum. Remarks are in the Mod Actions forum.

[Amaterasu]

agreed! we need to know what IP is deleting posts.

I emailed Him.  Hopefully He'll check the mail soon.

[Amaterasu]

All 'missing' posts still exist and are not deleted.

They are currently in the 'Threads for Review by Mods' forum. Remarks are in the Mod Actions forum.

Ah.  Well.  Never mind.

[A51Watcher]

Also at the same time Zorgon was sent a PM regarding the posts in question.

This is done anytime posts are moved.

[Littleenki]

Littleenki,

every so often, when i think of this place, the thought crosses my mind that i gotta get me some of that happy juice you're drinking.   (not saying you're drinking, just saying you're a happy fellow unless you start talking about religion and then it all goes to hell in a handbasket).

le"Honestly, undo, religion is the one thing I dont take with a light typing finger, and never will, but thanks for the caring effort to read my posts completely!"

i'll be like cruising along, reading one of your posts and WHAM! smack into an incomprehensible shift, from littleenki who loves and forgives everybody, to littleenki who seems to be intent on keeping it forever in his head that religious people  do dumb things (like everyone else on the planet) and the examples listed are almost always slights against christianity in particular.  it's not like we don't know that already, so the only rationale i can think of for it, is that something bad happened to you.  i'm afraid to ask what it was, cause then i'd have to be mad at them too. and then have to go threw that whole process of forgiveness too.

Le"I dont love and forgive everybody, though I am a loving person when applicable, but my experiences with religion and religious people in general have been less than "happy" Nothing bad ever happened to me, except for the millions of forefathers who died as a result of religious intolerance for other's beliefs."

i honestly don't know what to make of your posts. they are confusing.  when the bible gets like that, i assume it's because it's written by people and they put their own slant on the subject either when it happened, or later when it's translated and even later when it's retranslated, resulting in confusing moments.

Le"I was taught by a Hobbit, and sometimes can talk in an unusual way, but the message is always as clear as it needs to be."

  in your case, perhaps your head is arguing with your heart.  we all know in our hearts that the human race is frequently a broken mess but also a beautiful creation.  how these two things co-exist without us all being looney tunes, is beyond my capacity to decipher.  but to isolate out only one type of world view as inherently bad, and by virtue of its application, creates even more flawed followers, leaders, etc, that seems counter to all the other information, et.al, that we are flawed but also beautiful creations, capable of great love and abysmal failure.  why are christians in particular, such a sore spot for you?  *winces in preparation for potentially bad news*

I wont elaborate on why any religious group is a sore spot, and it's easier for you to google.."atrocities commited by christians and other religions through history, and you will be reading til that proverbial handbasket is full of stories about the horrors inflicted on the worlds population by those who decided to use their religion as a crutch to lean their hate and intolerance on.

You see, I am the one who is tolerant, as I live every day with people who are supposedly Christian or some other religion, and believe me I meet hundreds of people every week, and get to know many well. I find most to use their religion as a repair patch for their inadequacies, and hate for other religions, and that makes me sick.
There should be little forgiveness for any sins that are on the commandment list, especially,and a few there seem to be the ones most violated by the religious people themselves!
I find many Christians in particular to be fine upstanding people, and its mostly catholics and others that perpetrate these idocies, so the last group I will ever speak lowly of are Christians.

I, of course as I have said, do follow Jesus teachings as closely as possible, and plan to never stop, so if thats a clear picture of where Im coming from great, but if not, like Linda said, a Littleenki can give a Hobbit a run for his money when it comes to mystical writing and underlying meanings!

I do appreciate your interactions here, and find this to be a hot topic if there ever was one, but please dont ever think any comments or quips about Christians are aimed at you or Rdunk, as both of you are true Christians as defined as that can be!However many are not.

I love almost everyone, except for Michael Vick, Stalin, and a few others, but most folks who are crazy, dangerous, or just plain idiots get a pass from me on a daily basis.

All the same, and going to the same place...it's ok with me, hows about you?
Cheers!
Littleenki

[undo11]

Also at the same time Zorgon was sent a PM regarding the posts in question.

This is done anytime posts are moved.

probably not a good idea to remove other people's posts.  free speech and all that.  i might not agree with what they're saying but i want them to decide they like me enough not to think such things in the first place. but for that to happen, i have to explain why it's bad and what i actually believe in the first place, so i'm not  consigned to martyrdom i have already experienced before and don't want to go thru again.