The Gold Ring

[Littleenki]

Indeed

I read in Cramp's book that because each craft has it's own field, they would simply bounce off each other.
It would be actually impossible for them to crash, and they would automatically form a triangle when flying in formation.
Sound familiar?

HV circuits, plenty abound, the TV flyback is still one of the best, but those transformers are becoming like gold dust, with all the new TV's being flat screens & all.

When i eventuallly find them, i will post some excellent DIY Tesla coil plans

'standby for complete room ionisation' LOL

See my post on the searl page, Luke...its so funny you bring up bouncing...youll see what I mean...ironic my friend!

And when I make my famous ten alarm chili, we usually achieve full room ionisation pretty quickly:-)
Le

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

I will   

I love chilli...

[Fruitbat]

The Biefeld-Brown effect states that the negative pole will always chase the positive. Reverse the leads on a lifter, it will still lift.

Mikado

Actually. NO.

Mine lifts when I put the power the "right way" and gets heavier (by a very small but measurable amount) Admittedly, I cocked up the dimensions slightly, but everywhere I look everyone (not just you Mikado) says that the effect isn't supply polarity dependent, yet mine is..

I'd be interested in supplying precise dimensions (after re-confirming the effect) if anyone would like to do a replication of my setup, and own a lifter that is "different" to the majority.

It's always struck me that VERY little actual investigation has been done into the "lifter" phenomenon, everyone seems to assume tha the triangular construction with the specified materials represents the pinnacle of possibilities...

I think there may well better materials and configurations to be found if someone does a bit of work... 

FB!

[deuem]

Hi Fruitbat,

I would have to state that making a triangle would be the last idea I would have. It just seems that it is the cheapest and most realiable one to build that works. So everyone does them. If I ever get my power supply I will not be building a standard configuration machine. The typical triangle to me at least is very limited in what it can do with this tech. I also might be as wrong as right but what the hey!

If your looking for Mikado, I think he left this forum. Maybe...

Deuem

[Fruitbat]

I'm not looking for mikado particualrly, but I am hoping someone will challenge me to prove my findings.

EVERYWHERE I read about lifters peoplesay that the lifiting happenes whichever way you polarise the lifter.

I got a different result, and given the potential significance of that it surprises me that no one has shown any interest.

I'd like to be helpful, and with referenceto the earlier part of this thread, where you were debating startegies for measurement of the power, I found that the eaiest way was to acquire a cheap bench PSU that went past 40V, and measured current and voltage  for the first part of the naudin PSU diagram. it was relatively easy to masure the actual powr consumed on the low voltage side, and with a simple multimeter and 40Kv HT probe combination, I could measure the actual HT voltage, and since I know the input power I can make a crude guess at the output current, becuase you can't usually get more power out of a circuit than you put into it..

Cheap and remarkably quick to get going...

I also figured out that you don't actually HAVE to have the thing as a flying item, you can make a test rig with a balance and a set of jewellery scales which accepts single sections of lifter, and thus collect data showing lift in grammes versus power consumed by the PSU...

I've ordered me up some special materials, and will shortly be testing combinations of materials and configurations to see if I can get increased lifting power or efficiency..

If I do I will of course share. MY back of an envelope calcualtions indicate tha if I can achiee a 10x multiple of lifting power it will lift it's own PSU.

I'm also investigating alternative HT transformers EG "coil in plug" types from car HT systems.

Cheers, Fruitbat!

[Littleenki]

Mine only lifts off with the polarity in one direction.

Also, the airflow through it only blows whichever way the electrode polarity is changed to. Negative to positive..every time.

When I connect it in reverse, it actually becomes heavier and presses downward on the table noticeably.

My lifter lifts its own weight but not much more...maybe ten grams extra or so..

What input voltage are you using, Fruitbat?

Im seeing around 20kv at best..enough to lift it about a foot in the air.. no more.

Also, the frequency of input is important, too..the lower the input frequency, the higher the tendency for the flyback to short across the pins..and the higher the tendency for the electrodes to arc.

If youre using a 555 timer circuit, youll have to adjust the frequency first to decide the capacitor and resistor values.. I run mine from my frequency generator and the difference in the freq can realy make a difference in the performance.

But, the lower the frequency, the higher the thrust..that Ive noticed as well!

Good lifting!
Le

[robomont]

there shoudnt be arching.
is there a way to radius the arching points?

[Littleenki]

there shoudnt be arching.
is there a way to radius the arching points?

Its just a matter of adjusting the air gap to the frequency of the lifter..no arcs then.If you over drive the airgap itll arc between the electrodes everytime..and then it can fry the 555 circuit as well.

Lifters are simple to build but take a bit of trial and error to design..its all been done on  the web though..no mysteries anymore.

Le

[deuem]

Is the standard, 1mm per 1K. So 20 K should have a 20mm gap ?  40K a 40mm gap and so on?

This is what I have been told so far with the HV.

Deuem

[Littleenki]

Is the standard, 1mm per 1K. So 20 K should have a 20mm gap ?  40K a 40mm gap and so on?

This is what I have been told so far with the HV.

Deuem

Right you are, Dueum...1mm to 1 kv....thats for the specific frequency naudin drives his at though..if the frequency is lowered for increased output a larger gap will be necessary....test,test,test, then. ?.Fly!

Whoever here makes a lifter..do yourself a favor and attach it static first and check out the airflow through it. It will help you understand how the ionic portion of it works...if you have a vacuum chamber..then your experimenting...good luck getting a seal with the electrodes on a glass jar....its a beeotch!

Good luck!

Le

[Fruitbat]

Is the standard, 1mm per 1K. So 20 K should have a 20mm gap ?  40K a 40mm gap and so on?

This is what I have been told so far with the HV.

Deuem

It also varies with air humidity.

IS why van-de-graaf generators are a bit unpredicatable, apparently.

And LE, I did touch 40KV with my flyback design before the bad thing happened, the one involving a small fire, and of course, as soon as you got a decent smoky balsa and superglue blaze going, the electrical resistance of the air falls dramatically, followed soon after by partial failure of the eht coil, so now I only get 18Kv.

Thanks for confirming the polarity of the effect, LE. For some reason the commonly held belief, is that a lifter lifts which ever way round you connect it.

The "paranoid" in me is saying it's disinformation, adn trying to figure out why, teh scientist in my is saying maybe tehre are two ways to make a lifter one which shows the full BB effect and one which works slightly different.

And thanks for the coldness CLUE, I was too wussy to get that close to mine when it was working!
I wonder if it's the same sort of coldness reported by people like Roschin and Godin?

Got me in the mood for now, Think I'll go and have a play....

FB!

[Shasta56]

Random thought.  Fruitbat and LE are bothworking in the northern hemisphere.  Would the polarity outcome be reversed in the southern hemisphere?

Shasta

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

Jeez, i take a few days off & see what happens

Fruitbat, i will gladly recreate all of these experiments with various lifter formations.

I suspect that some people are blasting their lifters with too much power & causing a lot of corona discharge, which can probably  'lift' the lifter, independent of the wiring....
But if you wire it up + up on the thin wire, it will lift without all the sparks & noise.

Your basic triangle lifter is easy to make, but less than ideal, Naudin did some nice cellular ones,too.
I would like to try all of these, but i wil just go ahead with my own spiral design, which eliminates corners, and packs the biggest surface into the smallest area

This will also eliminate arcing, to answer Robo's question.

Also guys, remember our testing chamber setup for lifters? Add a thermometer to the list of sensors!
Bye

[zorgon]

Jeez, i take a few days off & see what happens

Next time you want a day off we need it in triplicate two weeks in advance

[IRCyborg]

Has anyone got one of these lifters to work in a vacuum?  If it doesn't work in a vacuum it isn't 'electrogravitics'.