The Gold Ring

[robomont]

deuem, did my idea of a vertically mounted solinoid have any influence on you?
is it possible for you to maybe give it a try at a later date?after first flight?

[deuem]

deuem, did my idea of a vertically mounted solinoid have any influence on you?
is it possible for you to maybe give it a try at a later date?after first flight?

I did bring it up at our last meeting like I do all suggestions. A typical selinoid is just like a transformer but with a movable core, No?

The magnetic field of the unit is so very low on the out side I am not sure how you are thinking of using it. I guess I need to pick your brain on this one. What are you thinking it will do? They will add weight. See how heavy LE flybacks are. The weight to lift ratio needs to be calculated better. It does seem though that the larger they get this ratio changes for the good. Unless I was dreaming that, the larger they get the less the PS should weigh in ratio to lift surface.  Now that is a big maybe right now. But it does look that way so far. i hope i can prove it.

Deuem

[robomont]

just a couple of loops maybe ten,of fine wire in a circle.mounted horizontally.this magnetic field will grab the ions,and accelerate them douwnward or upward,depending which of the two wires is positive.the downward force may double.thus doubling lift.

a transformer is very similar except a transformer has an iron core and is used to step up ac voltage or step down ac voltage or stabilize ac voltage.a solenoid is the winding around an iron nail from science class.used as a homemade magnet.
instead of iron,the ions from the corona are grabbed by the magnetic field just like the animation that zorgon provided at the beginning of this thread.ions are negatively charged,thus making them magnetic.

i got this idea from the caduceus coil which i believe is a ufo engine.
i would almost quarantee this would improve the performance of the lifter.
good luck and looking forward to the video.do you have a launch date?

[deuem]

No Launch date as of yet, we are still in the very beginning. I am waiting for the electronics guy to get the variable power supply to start testing.

So the loop you are talking bout is not a solenoid, just a wire loop. I guess it might help contain any wild forces into the field. Depending on the voltage it might act like a force field and contain the field better. Worth a try.

Have you tried this caduceus coil? What voltage, what amps sort of stuff? Can you cascade them, meaning a circle within a circle to boost the smaller ones?

I just remmbered seeing this coil here from UT being set up as an engine turning on two nails. Is that it?

Deuem

[Littleenki]

Hey, Dueum, I think Robo is pointing out the caduceus as a design influence of sorts, and the solenoid he speaks of would be more of a cone shaped device.

To effect the acceleration of the ions, the cone is the perfect choice, and basically creates a tapering field due to its shape.

Le

[robomont]

i just saw wiki design.wrong wrong.take two styrofoam plates .make saucer.put wire on top and alum foil on bottom.solenoid goes in bottom plate.ionic wind goes around lip of plate and pressure builds under base.high pressure under craft,low pressure above.the coil accelerates the ions to high speed ,increasing pressure ,increasing lift.

solenoid=take a cup,rap wire around cup twice ,pull out cup.
when energized ,this creates a toroid.the magnetic field lines go in the toroid,over the toroid,down the outer edge,under the toroid ,back into the toroid,repeat cycle.

this forces the ions down, accelerating towards speed of light=massive lift.

[robomont]

le ,you are on the ball.
the screw at the bottom of a caduceus is actually iron tubing in a spiral.
this creates a solenoid when ionized mercury plasma flows through it.
yes a funnel shape would be more focusing of magnetic field.
i dont know but it wouldnt surprise me if the solenoids voltage was high but i would start at 12vdc. on a tether also.
if it was built this way,i could see itself ripping free of tether and putting hole in ceiling.

[deuem]

le ,you are on the ball.
the screw at the bottom of a caduceus is actually iron tubing in a spiral.
this creates a solenoid when ionized mercury plasma flows through it.
yes a funnel shape would be more focusing of magnetic field.
i dont know but it wouldnt surprise me if the solenoids voltage was high but i would start at 12vdc. on a tether also.
if it was built this way,i could see itself ripping free of tether and putting hole in ceiling.

Can you make a hand sketch and post it of the two plates and this wire idea?  Deuem

[robomont]

this will be a sloppy drawings but.

[deuem]

this will be a sloppy drawings but.

Don't worry, if I can at least understand it I can draw it.
\
Deuem

[robomont]

here you go ,the green is the solinoid inside and glued to plate ,blue is two styrofoam plates,red is wire on top,and aluminum foil patch on bottom

[deuem]

here you go ,the green is the solinoid inside and glued to plate ,blue is two styrofoam plates,red is wire on top,and aluminum foil patch on bottom

The sketch was more than good enough to get the idea over to me. This is so light I don't even know if I could weigh it with the scale I have. ( extra wires ) It would be so simple to add, I will give it a try when we get that far for sure. Our PS got delayed so I am on hold and I don't know how long. In the meantime, is that bare wire or insulated or enameled? 30 age or smaller? And does it have to be 12 volts? 12 Volts will need a transformer if I use 9v. What about something a little higher, say around 1200v.  deuem

[robomont]

9 volts may work,wire must be insulated.just make sure high voltage doesnt ground out through low voltage circuit.1200v may work better.its all about nothing shorting out.thats why sometimes bigger is better.
im not good with magnetic field strengths.
i am good with power though.742 watts per horse power.you shouldnt even need 1 watt.if you had a perfect machine.
if it will lift it,just put 9v battery inside plates .maybe almost dead battery or solenoid wires may melt.
i think you get the jist.

[Littleenki]

Interesting idea, Robo.

A different type of lifter, and very light with the foam plates, too!

I think if this will work with a lower voltage like say 4-7000 v, how about a tiny neon transformer..theyre very light!

Also, the plates could be heated and reformed to be more dome shaped like your drawing, and to allow for a bit more room inside for the internals, and also to make a wider gap between the electrodes.

Of course the distance between them could be adjusted by said reshaping of the foam plates..or it could even be hewed from a solid block of foam, too.

What you have drawn is a two plate gravitor, with a coil set into one plate for tuning...Hmmm
A chaser sort of circuit, but thats what a gravitor is anyways, eh?

Mixing a gravitor with a lifter...now thats an idea!

Good theory there, Robo...

Cheers!
Le

[robomont]

i had to use my daughters new slider phone for the art work.then send it to my phone then send it here.whew.
the top and bottom were rounded for better viewing of solenoid,big hands,little phone screen.but rounded would work better.they just dont make round bottom styrofoam plates.
i agree with le,if possible use styrofoam block,more insulating properties.
yea ive seen those tunable circuits in t browns patents.i think he was using ac though.that may be the trick.ionize the craft,then slowly turn up solenoid voltage or current for levitation.
you know,if this thing works,we gonna need to build a big one.
i say we start a pledge drive.zorgon needs to be able to fly someday.plus he will need a security team to keep the mib off of him.
some things for future discussion?