The Gold Ring

[deuem]

The less fields the less control IMHO. I think a triangle is very unstable. I might be wrong! I would like to see at least 5 groups. 1 Main power and 4 controls. I did want to see this being done with no moving parts. If possible. If servos were used then you add weight again. A method of changing the 9volt should be looked at but only usinf a smaller high end voltage, hence less coils and caps. Maybe we could just fire one of the four when needed. Or shut if off whan needed.

I was thinking of using thes extra 4 surfaces all the time for lift and then slowing one or 2 down for correction. In hover the master gyro would take over control of these 4 and balance the unit out. So in a way this would have to fly with the master on and at least 2 or 3 of the secondaries at 100% while the other 1 or 2 are off or down. This would steer the craft.

Think of the guy that did the plastic cups. Make a circle in the center with 4 cups at 90 degrees and go from there. That is kind of the basic idea.

Deuem

[Fruitbat]

Duem, I like your attitude! Elegant would be nice.
control options as I see it are 1, electrical 2, Mechanical.

What ever we do, we need to do it quickly before we all lose interest.

ON the table is:
The basic lifter, good to learn not a good combination of size and fragilty. But about 240 of them strapped together will lift 1/10't the weight of a practcial PSU.

I think we all agree the first thing is to make it self lift, yes?

To do this we simply need to get 10x as much lift out of the same or less (preferably) size of craft.

This I think we can do. NOW, common sense dictates that we will need a control system. Until we prove otherwise I vote for a simple 6 channel 35Mhz or 2.4 Ghz r/c system, and we use as much off teh shelf tech as we can. IF I AM RIGHT and we CAN design or find suitable coils, we can practically buy it all off the shelf, but first we need to know what voltage, at what power, though what arrangement of electrodes, is GOING TO DO THE JOB. To be honest, we need someoen to build PWM's spiral lifter, adn we need a whole load of other stff doing until we get the extra power that we need.

Please don't put the cart before the horse, we need to get "MORE POWER, IGOR"! before we worry about how best to control it. But my guess is that at 10 grams for a really quite good servo, the mechanical approach wil not be entirely without merit, BUT  don;t care, just want to see that first self powered lifter take off (whether we do it or not), but soon.

Because in case no one has noticed, the theoretical fuel burn versus payload, wil make this the absolutely cheapest and safest possible way into near earth orbit... All we need to do is prove the concept.

Cheers, FB!

[robomont]

how about 100,000vdc taser or stun gun guts for ps.

[deuem]

To All, Lifters do not always need to be used to lift!

Ok, The forse can push also, say a train with the lifter in the rear. Say a car in a tunnel. say a blimp. So there are other applications that do not need it to lift its own weight, just push.

On the lifter, I agree if it can't lift by its self it is worthless for now.

Fruitbat, We all agree on the final idea. And maybe we can lift a PS but with out the flight control systems it would be again worthless. I think we all need to agree and understand how to control the craft. They make all the R/C servos and controls here, so that cost is nothing.

I think if we can get a group choice on the flight control systems, then we would know what PS we would need. If this is done, I will then ask the electrical guys to design a light weight PS board. This one board would have all of the coils, caps, gyros, battery and R/C chip in one package. They could even make the boards, P&P and wave them. But I don't want to go back to them many times with changes. So it has to be figured out first.

Deuem

[rose]

To All, Lifters do not always need to be used to lift!

Ok, The forse can push also, say a train with the lifter in the rear. Say a car in a tunnel. say a blimp. So there are other applications that do not need it to lift its own weight, just push.

Right you are, Deuem:

Inertial propulsion device to move an object up and down
HE Fiala, JE Fiala, JA Fiala - US Patent 8,066,226, 2011 - Google Patents

(10) Patent No.: US 8,066,226 B2 (45) Date of Patent: Nov. 29, 2011 (56) References Cited
US PATENT DOCUMENTS 3,555,915 A * 1/1971 Young, Jr. .... ...

Device to move an object back and forth
HE Fiala, JE Fiala, JA Fiala - US Patent 7,900,874, 2011 -
... As an example of an electrostatic antigravity device, various Biefeld-Brown effect devices were
men- tioned, including Lifters, and Asymmetrical ... Alex Jones' first patent application was in German
and was titled, "Vor- triebsvorrichtung" (Forward Thrust Device6), Patent #23 41 65 ...

As to lifter configuration, I posted this abstract  from Siswanto and Ngui elsewhere, and you may have seen it, but in the interest of trans-pollination of ideas, the gist of it is:

"Three different configurations (triangular, square and improved square) of ionic lifters are developed to observe the performance of the lifters characterized by its potential energy, air flow velocity, lifting height and the generated force. The results show that the downward air flow velocity of the square model is higher than the triangular model....."

http://www.ajbasweb.com/ajbas/2011/September-2011/1433-1438.pdf

Happy liftering,
rose

[deuem]

Yes, I can imagine one of our members building an HO train track and placing an lifter drive at the rear of a flat car with the RC controls on the flat bed being supported by the trains wheels. See how fast it can go. With a train you only need speed control and maybe brakes.

Deuem

[Littleenki]

Nice post, Rose.. 

From experience, I have found a torus shaped lifter to be very effective and easy to build, as well as structurally sound.

Balsa doesnt bend well, so use gap filling foam available at Lowes for the frame, wrapped in thin al foil. Make it about 10 inches in diameter and the foam should be cut into a thin flat strip from the round stock...as light and thin as possible.

Then use a 34 ga wire run around the circumferemnce attached to uprights made of the very same foam cut into strips.

Suspend the wire above the base 1mm for every kvdc used.

This apparatus not only will lift with ease, it makes a great ionic breeze fan when stood on end and taped to a bench...or yes..even a train car on an HO railway.

Oh..and it looks like a Stargate, too!

Le

[zorgon]

This apparatus not only will lift with ease, it makes a great ionic breeze fan when stood on end and taped to a bench...or yes..even a train car on an HO railway.

Well there ya go, a practical application of BB Effect.. an ionic breeze fan   No more crap hitting the rotating blades

Oh..and it looks like a Stargate, too!

Pics or it ain't so

[zorgon]

Yes, I can imagine one of our members building an HO train track and placing an lifter drive at the rear of a flat car with the RC controls on the flat bed being supported by the trains wheels. See how fast it can go. With a train you only need speed control and maybe brakes.

How big would a lifter need to be to noticeably provide trust for a locomotive that weighs several tons?

[Littleenki]

Well there ya go, a practical application of BB Effect.. an ionic breeze fan   No more crap hitting the rotating blades


Pics or it ain't so

OK..here tis...she flies quite grandly with 20kvdc..perhaps Ill share the flight video when I make another flight..If ya'll are nice



Le

[Littleenki]

How big would a lifter need to be to noticeably provide trust for a locomotive that weighs several tons?

Ways?    I Thrust you spelled it wrong? 

over dare it tis!

[robomont]

in theory,the same amount as train engine.
the problem is it would probably short to ground if mounted to close to tracks or ground.

any of yall like my stun gun guts theory or am i off somewhere on my figures?

the word is weighs.

[Fruitbat]

I for one DID like the stun gun theory, although in practice they are going to be "hard to get" over here..

Cheers, FB

[robomont]

oh didnt think of that.i wonder if the company sells just the guts,then it would be legal.
im sure they have got real lightweight stuff in it.

[zorgon]

I Thrust you spelled it wrong? 

Fonetic spelling   Seems it worked as you understood

English  Bah Humbug