Aliens: Real or Not?

[petrus4]

I know I asked the question about Meier specifically in another thread; and from what people have said there, it seems inconclusive, although possibly tending towards fraud, in terms of A51's photos at least.

More broadly, though; I found an article this morning, which oddly isn't accessible to me now:-
http://www.thebiggestsecret.org/home/index.php/articles/ufo-et/meier-hoax/60-meier-hoax/82-meier-mega-hoax-mega-con

The interesting thing about this article, is that while claiming to believe that UFOs are real, the author states that he feels that if one or more pieces of the Meier evidence are fake, then it is all fake; and he further believes that any information released by anyone anywhere, about the Pleiadians in particular, is also almost certain to be a hoax.

The main reason why I find this interesting, is because AFAIK, there is at least one woman who has claimed to start channelling Pleiadian material independently; and although she of course could have heard of Meier before doing so, she hasn't mentioned it to my knowledge.  Then of course there's Lyssa Royal; but again, I don't know whether or not she has ever been in contact with Meier.

Also, given the intensity of the years of nightmares, at one point I reluctantly started to believe that my own possible abduction(s) by the Greys had actually happened at one point; but the reality is that despite how it looks, I still don't truly know for sure, even after the amount of them that there were, whether or not it was purely the product of my own head. 

The other reason why I'm asking this question now, is because I've recently been exposed to a lot of material which has presented seemingly clear evidence, that virtually everyone associated with the UFO milieu that I had previously known about, are very likely frauds.  So I want to clearly ask the question, and I think this could provide fuel for a fantastic debate on this forum.

Do extraterrestrials definitively exist?  If so, which species are we prepared to then also say, definitely exist?  I am not asking this question from the position of having made up my mind that the answer is no; I genuinely want the input of people here, about whether or not they do.

[biggles]

Ofcourse aliens exist.  Hells, bells and little fishes there are too many witnesses, too many abductee reports.  Look at the NASA videos with those ufos flying here and there.

I read somewhere ages ago that the aliens gave us the info to build the microwave, whether it is true or not doesnt really matter.

There are aliens, how they travel and in what I dont really care, I just know their here, whether they picked up the message NASA sent out years ago with the coordinates of where we are and an invitation to come visit I also cannot confirm, but here for sure they are.

And how do I know, because I said it and that's that. 

[deuem]

 
Yes there has to be Aliens out there. The universe is too big for there not to be.

[petrus4]

Ofcourse aliens exist.  Hells, bells and little fishes there are too many witnesses, too many abductee reports.  Look at the NASA videos with those ufos flying here and there.

I will agree with you that there does seem to be far too much evidence in existence, biggles, for it all to be hoaxed.  I just want to make sure that I really look at this properly, is all, and not just take it at face value.  I think if I just blindly believe that something is real without looking at it properly, then I'm as bad in that respect, as Randi et. al., are at the other end of the spectrum, when they state point blank that some things don't exist.

I'm sure Pimander will be willing to agree with me, that being truly scientific means being uncertain.

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

Of course they exist. I've seen them! Just check the Home Depot parking lot!  Oh wait a minute...... Loblol

[Pimander]

I'm sure Pimander will be willing to agree with me, that being truly scientific means being uncertain.

It means being doubtful, or sceptical in the proper meaning of the word.  Until the weight of evidence is insurmountable that is the scientific position.


In recent years, partly due to the media, it has come to mean unbeliever.  However, if you are truly sceptical, you would remain sceptical of all possibilities.  Unbelievers actually believe something and are therefore not being sceptical of their position. 


e.g. ArMaP is an atheist, which is not a sceptical position and is therefore unscientific.  In the absence of proof of whether there is a deity the scientific position is to admit we do not know.



As for aliens, it depends what you mean.  If you mean ET, I don't know.  As far as I know, all evidence of aliens (and there is no public domain proof but plenty of "evidence") comes from Earth and its immediate vicinity.  I'd say it is a massive assumption that aliens are from other planets as we have no evidence from anywhere but Earth.


There is good evidence that nuts and bolts saucers/craft and aliens probably exist but I do not know where they come from and there is no public domain proof.



Personal experience as opposed to proof?


Consciousness with psi like otherworldly qualities definitely exists but again, I know of no proof.  Beings with high intelligence not human definitely exist but I don't know whether they are flesh and blood.

I have seen a craft that looked like it wasn't ours.  It was in the presence of two other witnesses.  I don't know whether it was alien for certain but it certainly felt alien.



Opinion?

Yes, aliens exist and have visited Earth and probably observe us - as a minimum out of scientific curiosity (as we would if we get the chance).  The universe is immense, of course it happens.


Another good question is what do secretive sections within the military and unelected secret services know about it?


However, most of the UFO and aliens scene is complete nonsense, lies, exaggeration, poor research and misidentification.

[petrus4]

In recent years, partly due to the media, it has come to mean unbeliever.  However, if you are truly sceptical, you would remain sceptical of all possibilities.  Unbelievers actually believe something and are therefore not being sceptical of their position.

I've tended to consider that to be a more genuine definition of skepticism as well.  From everything I've ever seen, Randi and his ilk are not genuine skeptics, but cynics.  They enjoy falsely implying that they are truly scientific, but if you really look, I think you'll find that they start with the assumption that whatever they are investigating does not exist. 

e.g. ArMaP is an atheist, which is not a sceptical position and is therefore unscientific.  In the absence of proof of whether there is a deity the scientific position is to admit we do not know.

What little I've seen of Cymatics in particular, strongly implies to me that there is some type of decentralised co-ordinating principle or intelligence, if it could be called that; but it is not a deity in the conventional sense of the word, at all.  A deity as people usually think of it, tends to imply a singular, centralised intelligence; although ironically, if you read the Bible, God is not actually described as "He," but as "They."  "Elohim," is AFAIK a plural, not singular term.

As for aliens, it depends what you mean.  If you mean ET, I don't know.  As far as I know, all evidence of aliens (and there is no public domain proof but plenty of "evidence") comes from Earth and its immediate vicinity.  I'd say it is a massive assumption that aliens are from other planets as we have no evidence from anywhere but Earth.

Agreed.  I'm definitely willing to believe that unidentified, anomalous craft exist; there seems to be far too much evidence of it to conclude otherwise.  I'm probably also even willing (at least speculatively) to accept the existence of said craft being piloted by entities which exist well and truly outside of the range of normal human experience; but as to where specifically said beings are from, I cannot even speculate, because I do not, for the most part, have sufficient information to do so.

I don't consider it outlandish to believe that various national governments have access to unconventional vessels of various kinds, either; to me the SR-71 Blackbird and other craft which eventually became publically known, demonstrate that at least the American government develops exotic technologies, and then publically releases/declassifies them when it feels that there is no longer a security issue in doing so.

Consciousness with psi like otherworldly qualities definitely exists but again, I know of no proof.  Beings with high intelligence not human definitely exist but I don't know whether they are flesh and blood.

I would agree with this, from my own experience; but it is frustrating that physical evidence is not available, from the point of view of avoiding people making premature diagnoses of insanity on my part.

However, most of the UFO and aliens scene is complete nonsense, lies, exaggeration, poor research and misidentification.

I've always tended to agree with this, definitely.

[deuem]

However, most of the UFO and aliens scene is complete nonsense, lies, exaggeration, poor research and misidentification.

It is such a shame that such an exciting subject gets caught up with this part of life. We all know that a lot of this is done by groups to keep it in the funny bin and that makes it more of a problem.

Even if Aliens landed on the White house lawn, everyone would claim CGI. And maybe they would be right. I really do not know what I would need to actually believe something today. Ok, land out front of my office and take me for a ride and let me take pictures. Then 90 percent of the people I tell will say I was on drugs or taken by the men in black and drugged up. And all my photos were CGI. Some would claim HARP and others Blue Beam projections.

To prove there are Aliens to the world would take something of incredible force or placement of ships. I might think like Star Trek and if I was an Alien I would wait till you could meet me on my own grounds. If I landed, some would want to shot me on site, others would run away, some would laugh while others might try to eat me or dissect me. I would stay away.

Yes there has to be Aliens and if they are smart they will stay away or be very careful.

Deuem

[Pimander]

Off topic but.....

I've tended to consider that to be a more genuine definition of skepticism as well.  From everything I've ever seen, Randi and his ilk are not genuine skeptics, but cynics.  They enjoy falsely implying that they are truly scientific, but if you really look, I think you'll find that they start with the assumption that whatever they are investigating does not exist.

Randi is a liar.  I can't stand the prick.



Message for James Randi:  If you aren't a f*cking liar then try to sue me you prick and I'll prove it in court.

[Littleenki]

Well Petrus youve stirred a nest of wasps up and I like it!LOL!

So many trumpet about knowing aliens exist and what they look like, or how they were abducted and so forth and so on, but so far the best evidence we have is heresay and distant video and camera footage. If there is someone who knows for a fact that aliens exist, in a true scientific way, I havent met them yet.

Of course as Dueum poses, there are certainly aliens in existence somewhere, the odds are too great, but as Pimander and Matrix would offer, perhaps they arent as distant as our own minds would have us believe.

So, are aliens a physical or mental attribute of our current situation on this so called planet, in this so called galaxy..etc,etc.?

Personally I am of the belief that aliens do exsit in the form of alternative lifeforms, such as plasma and other constructs. As for our military and their supposed back engineered craft, I also believe this exists, and the explanation for such factors bases itself in the possibility of found technology, or even captured technology.

If they exist and have visited us here, their tech would have to be exponentially greater than ours, as rockets and such are not a viable means of interstellar travel.
Thats a simple answer.

What complicates it is the question of if they are plasma or other non solid forms, can they just relocate throughout the universe with the blink of an eye?

Stargates and time machines..as far as Im concerned we may have them in our historical past, and they may still exist hidden beneath the sands today, but even if so, we dont have to ability to understand them, so if we found one it would appear as just an anomalous feature and nothing more.

As far as aliens being here, like the reptilians and the greys? I dont have a clue as to this because of the fact that their advanced tech would allow for us to be effectively prevented from proving their existence, and if a slip up occured which gave them away, they would be able to quash it in an instant.

To ask this question in this thread, we should start first by defining what we think alien life is...then approaching it with the question of if they are this or that, where in history was the proof and solid foundation that can really be hashed out into some sort of believable story or event?

To this day, alien existence, although common sense tells us they must exist somewhere, is heresay, and nothing more.

My personal beliefs they have been here, and still visit, hold no water anymore than anyones elses, and until we have that proverbial smoking gun, we as a whole wont be able to definitively say one way or the other.

It really is an unanswerable question, regardless of the level of research or experience anyone has...impossible to answer as a matter of fact as of now.

We just have to believe what we believe at our own level, and wait for the truth to expose itself, or die wondering.

Ill keep looking up, though!

Le

[Pimander]

If they exist and have visited us here, their tech would have to be exponentially greater than ours, as rockets and such are not a viable means of interstellar travel.
Thats a simple answer.

Not if they're locals and are based nearby (asteroid belt, Mars, Moon).  If they can breath here, perhaps this is their original home. 

[Littleenki]

Not if they're locals and are based nearby (asteroid belt, Mars, Moon).  If they can breath here, perhaps this is their original home. 

True, Pimander, and of course the possibility exists that any aliens we encounter are just versions of past earthlings who left for whatever reasons...as for their location? they would be more likely to be holed up in a spacecraft  and not actually living on any nearby planets unless they built bases there.

Could our aliens be us from long ago who escaped some cataclysm and decided not to come back in full force? And do they still visit for reasons of mining materials or just curiousity?

Good postulation, Pimander..makes on e think, eh?

[zorgon]

  Look at the NASA videos with those ufos flying here and there.

Those are plasma critters not alien space craft Alien space craft don't swarm around energy sources like moths to a flame. When will you people wake up

[Littleenki]

Those are plasma critters not alien space craft Alien space craft don't swarm around energy sources like moths to a flame. When will you people wake up

Indeed, Zorgon, the critters are just that..critters!

And since they live mainly in our atmosphere and above, that would make them aliens, right? Or are they just the original species which enjoyed life on this Earth?

Also, I have wondered recently if God was a captured critter, and did the escaping Jews steal God from the Egyptians as they crossed the desert?

Were the contents of the Ark, a critter perhaps, and was this very same captured critter what powered the pyramid of Giza?

What burned and killed those who were in its presence so badly?

What created such amazing anomalous effects which made men fall to their collective knees?

What created the plumes of vortices above the Ark?

An alien lifeform, or a God?


Le

[Pimander]

Those are plasma critters not alien space craft Alien space craft don't swarm around energy sources like moths to a flame. When will you people wake up

They aren't the only aliens Z.

I've been awake too long.  I need some sleep.