I Know What I Saw

[onetruekeeper]

I'm specifically talking about a low mass dirigible if you read my posts.

Air resistance is not a big issue if you use very light gases to get to the outer reaches of the atmosphere.  After that altitude a low mass and lower gravity (the force of which is a function of distance and mass) are of little consequence.

I'm right basically.

I am confused now. Are you talking about gases used INSIDE the dirigible that contributes to buoyancy or the atmosphere outside the dirigible which is just oxygen-nitrogen? How does outside air resistance  factor in with the type of gas used in the gas containment cells you find inside most dirigibles?  Your "dirigible" seems to operate under some other laws of nature which I don't comprehend..LOL

[Pimander]

I am confused now.

You don't say.

Are you talking about gases used INSIDE the dirigible that contributes to buoyancy or the atmosphere outside the dirigible which is just oxygen-nitrogen?

Are you trying to waste my time?

The gas inside an AIRSHIP (with something in common with a dirigible for the sake of argument) clearly would contribute to buoyancy.

How does outside air resistance  factor in with the type of gas used in the gas containment cells you find inside most dirigibles?

I'm not familiar with the precise design details of a secret craft obviously. LOL

Your "dirigible" seems to operate under some other laws of nature which I don't comprehend..LOL

Well learn some basic physics then because I'm correct unless I've explained something in a previous post in an unintelligible way.


I'm not trying to say I know exactly how an above top secret craft operates.  I'm saying based on what I know of technology and science - especially as secret projects are AT LEAST 20 years ahead in terms of novel materials and propulsion-  there is no real scientific reason why a craft like I describe does not exist.

Such a craft would explain many so called UFO cases without any need to give credence to the military cover stories about aliens?

I'm also not saying ET or interdimensional aliens do or cannot exist.  In fact I think they very likely (almost certain) that intelligences more advanced than Earth humans do exist in abundance.  I am saying that most UFO cases are nothing to do with aliens at all.  The military use stories about aliens to cover up secret tests, military accidents and more.  There have also been psy ops using the alien myth which I have written about elsewhere on this site somewhere.

Clear enough?

[The Seeker]

I am confused now. Are you talking about gases used INSIDE the dirigible that contributes to buoyancy or the atmosphere outside the dirigible which is just oxygen-nitrogen? How does outside air resistance  factor in with the type of gas used in the gas containment cells you find inside most dirigibles?  Your "dirigible" seems to operate under some other laws of nature which I don't comprehend..LOL

OTK, what Pimander is stating is if you use helium or hydrogen to float the dirigible into the upper atmosphere then outside air resistance (drag) shouldn't be a factor ...

thus allowing use of many different types of propulsive units to go zooming off versus starting at the bottom of the gravity well (the surface of the planet)...


seeker

[onetruekeeper]

There is nothing really top secret about dirigibles...   To get even a small dirigible into orbit you still need a rocket of some type to reach escape velocity assuming we don't have some sort of exotic space drive available.
Also the weight difference of a object at ground level and up in the near edge of space is slight. The air resistance even at high altitudes is still about the same as at sea level. When Chuck Yeager took that Starfighter jet up into the edge of space he lost control of the aircraft because there was very little air for the wings to provide lift and the jet engine conked out due to lack of oxygen. But this was way above the atmospheric envelope, too high even for balloons. What the heck was he thinking...LOL

[ArMaP]

But this was way above the atmospheric envelope, too high even for balloons.

More than 50 km?

[Pimander]

There is nothing really top secret about dirigibles...

Nobody has claimed that.

Why are you so rattled by my idea?

To get even a small dirigible into orbit you still need a rocket of some type to reach escape velocity assuming we don't have some sort of exotic space drive available.

You don't know what you are talking about.

A rocket moving out of a gravity well does not actually need to attain escape velocity to do so, but could achieve the same result at any speed with a suitable mode of propulsion and sufficient fuel. Escape velocity only applies to ballistic trajectories.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity

Also the weight difference of a object at ground level and up in the near edge of space is slight. The air resistance even at high altitudes is still about the same as at sea level.

So what?  That makes no difference to what I have said at all.


It is possible to create a craft similar to what I have described.  I'm also not sure why you are obsessed with going to space either as the craft I described originally was a stealth craft and had nothing to do with space.

Is there some reason why you are so rattled by this discussion? 


P.S.  It is a myth that you have to travel at a particular velocity to reach orbit.

[onetruekeeper]

Pimander,
I am neither rattled nor obsessed about anything you have mentioned. But with all due respect I am not convinced that you know enough about what it takes to put a man-made object into orbit around our planet. Perhaps we should get a second opinion from somebody who has experience in the space program with putting spacecraft in orbit. Until then I will say no more because I do not wish to agitate you further. Cheers!

[onetruekeeper]

More than 50 km?

The jet used some sort of afterburner to make the accent. The jet engine conked out after reaching maximum design elevation where it could not get enough oxygen for air compression or combustion. The aerodynamic surfaces on the aircraft were useless up there because the air is so thin. He went into a unrecoverable spin and had to eject. The altitude  was over 100,000 feet. There are some weather balloons that could go much higher but they don't carry much payload and they are extremely huge in size. Here is a YouTube video from The Right Stuff movie showing that event.

[Pimander]

Pimander,
I am neither rattled nor obsessed about anything you have mentioned.

Sorry, I was in a foul mood when I posted.  It did seem like something regarding my "speculation" about stealth craft rattled you but I could be wrong.

But with all due respect I am not convinced that you know enough about what it takes to put a man-made object into orbit around our planet.

As I said, I was talking about a stealth craft originally, although I'm almost certain that I am right that an object could reach a high altitude and then space without needing rockets. 

Obviously whatever velocity an object travels to reach orbit could be classed as its "escape velocity" but I think that is different to what you or a rocket engineer means by the term.

Perhaps we should get a second opinion from somebody who has experience in the space program with putting spacecraft in orbit.

Feel free.  However, I'm not talking about trying to put an object in space using rockets so I'm not sure that there is a lot of point discussing rocketry concepts when discussing a lighter or as light as air stealth craft.

Until then I will say no more because I do not wish to agitate you further. Cheers!

Don't worry, my posting style comes across as more aggressive than intended sometimes.  It is often quite difficult to be direct without sounding rude.  That is is one of the drawbacks of typed conversations as a voice and body language are important parts of communication.

[onetruekeeper]

My apologies as well.  I should have been more clear about what I was trying to express.
When I was posting, the subject of stealth technology never crossed my mind for some reason.
From what I have read in the past, the Russians already have air defense systems that can spot any incoming stealth aircraft . I believe one of our stealth fighters was shot down over Bosnia during the Balkans War by a Russian built surface to air missile battery using such stealth detecting systems.

[Ellirium113]

From what I have read in the past, the Russians already have air defense systems that can spot any incoming stealth aircraft . I believe one of our stealth fighters was shot down over Bosnia during the Balkans War by a Russian built surface to air missile battery using such stealth detecting systems.

Wasn't really that hard...seen a clip somewhere where a guy was explaining that all they had to do was have the radar look for bird sized signatures that are emitting electrical signals.

[Sinny]

Wasn't really that hard...seen a clip somewhere where a guy was explaining that all they had to do was have the radar look for bird sized signatures that are emitting electrical signals.

Lol, that's amusing if it's accurate.

Thread blast from the past! haha.