Connecticut shooting and gun control debate

[ArMaP]

The American government is currently aware of the fact, that at least an extremely high level of potential exists, for an attempt at armed revolution against said government, at some point within the next 5-10 years.

That "fact" may be just wishful thinking from those that dream with a revolution in the US.

To me, the US government does not (and doesn't have any reasons to) fear a revolution, because a successful revolution needs organisation, something I have never seen outside the major US political organisations.

[zorgon]

Wow, the gov' staged this? Now I question why I even read these posts. That's the most assine think I've ever heard.  Sorry people very sorry.  >:(I'm pissed)

Yeah I am with you on that one...  da gubmint has certainly much to answer for but saying they staged this and similar events is nuts

[sky otter]

I would appreciate it if, unlike what happened to a post I made in the last 9/11 anniversary thread, this post not be silently deleted by a member of the staff, because they feel that expression of the truth is somehow disrespectful to the victims of said incident.

I have never seen a single one of these incidents, where I have not been convinced, that said incident was a false flag event, staged by the American government.

ok pets r us.. do you have any idea of how offensive you  are..
or is that your goal?
i have questioned your motives on a number of posts and have walked away
figuring you are just a troll  looking for attention
a wannabe intellect looking to be leader somewhere somehow but without actually
doing anything but shooting off your mouth

rock isn't the only one pissed at your talk

hey Z..if the goal is more trolls like this one..
well..enough said

get off the couch ozzie and get a job

[ArMaP]

Man with knife injures 22 kids at school in China
http://www.usatoday.com/news/

In this China case nobody was killed.

[Pimander]

In this China case nobody was killed.

Give that man a gun and it would have been carnage.

[Phedre]

I was just looking up some statistics yesterday the one that sticks in my mind is Chicago. In Nov 2012 alone , homicides went up 49% to 192 shootings, bringing the total to about 480 for the year ,well the year is not over, yet . They are said to have the "strictest" gun laws in the country and considering making the controls tighter. This is just Chicago not the whole state.  I am of the opinion that taking guns from the citizens, in no way slows down the "criminal" as stated by some, if someone is going to kill, they are going to it, no matter what means.  Here in Oregon we have a right to carry law. But as for the "Mall" shooting in Portland, it was posted all over the place that no guns where allowed, whether  legal or not.  In my feeble mind that is saying, Please Don't Hurt the Shooter.

[Pimander]

The pro-gun brain washing is incredible.  Anyone who cannot see that ready availability of guns makes it more likely that people kill is suffering from cognitive dissonance.  There may be an up side to guns being available but it does not change that fact.

There is a simple reason why you are three times as likely to be murdered in America than in the UK.  It is not rocket science.   

[A51Watcher]

Wow, the gov' staged this? Now I question why I even read these posts....

Mission accomplished?

[Eighthman]

I will risk weighing into this tragic and emotional subject.

I say children and others are being murdered because of gun control fantasies.

Repealing the 2nd Amendment is fantasy.  Total abolition of guns is a fantasy - this is not Japan, the land in which Yamamoto (architect of the Pearl Harbor attack) told the war council to forget any notion of invading the US mainland - 'where there is a rifle behind every blade of grass'.

We need to get real about guns and realize that hundreds of millions of them are not going to be given up - and that includes all the gun control hypocrites who secretly keep them (and then get embarrassed when they get caught). We also need to get real about our rightful distrust of a government that can legally strip search your wife for a traffic violation, fondle your disabled granny in an airport or search thousands of a prominent General's e-mail without any warrant.

Ask Native Americans if the Federal government can be trusted.  That said....

We have a Federal Marshall program for airplanes that works.  Teachers in Israel are openly armed and that works. We need a voluntary program to encourage training and certification of teachers and others in confidential concealed carry (who has the gun?).

Years ago, a student in  Mississippi started shooting. A vice principal went out to his truck and got his .45 and pointed it at the student's head.  It stopped.  This looks more promising to me than more deadly fantasies about how banning assault rifles, handguns or tougher licensing will accomplish anything  concrete.

[ichiban]

I was listening to a radio show, the other day, and host insisted on only taking Canadian callers that day, as the US callers immediately politicized this tragedy.
It was interesting because the concensus was that Canada has the same amount of guns but doesn't seem to have these frequent mass murders like we do here in the US of A.
So the question was asked: what is the difference here?  Why does this happen here and not to our civilized northern brothers and sisters.
I believe that there is a something terribly wrong with our society.  Something quite complex and insidious.
What it is, I'm not 100% sure.
Some of the callers mentioned the roots of this country.  Things like slavery & the Native American genocide & the differing relationships we had with the Brits.  The host asserted that the problem with this country is that we have a 'get even' mentality.  When we are done injustice or hurt -  we feel like we have to 'get even'.  In other words we are vengeful.
In a perfect world, I concede that the elimination of guns, more specifically the illegal ones - used for illegal activities, would be IDEAL.
I do not see that being a real solution, as the 2nd Amendment is so ingrained in what it means to be an American.  People will fight to the end to preserve their right to be armed. 
So a ban is seemingly off the table.
What then can we do?
What is wrong with us?

[ichiban]

Anyone who cannot see that ready availability of guns makes it more likely that people kill is suffering from cognitive dissonance.

Agreed.
I truly believe that most Americans, if not most humans on Earth, are suffering from cognitive dissonance on one or more levels.
It seems like an effective means of mind control / subduing the masses.

[Eighthman]

Unfortunately, the very nature of US culture and tradition strongly argues against attempts at strict gun control. We're just not homogenous and have a permanent underclass.

I have long believed that, eventually, we MUST move into collective consciousness, more like bees and ants. I hate saying that but there is no alternative as technology puts more and more potentially destructive power into our hands.

Evolution has to make us psychically empathic or we're toast. I suppose you could make an argument that we can avoid that by just stagnating (as we seem to be doing currently).

Feel free to smack me with any intelligent optimism you might have.

[Pimander]

Feel free to smack me with any intelligent optimism you might have.

No optimism here.

Any nation that calls itself a democracy but proceeds to let George Bush junior lose the election and then govern them for years and subsequently re-elect him?  Well, what good were all the guns then?

Guns to defend your democracy?  Not likely.  We have 6 in a hundred guns per capita and it would NEVER be allowed to happen in the UK.

A couple of facts for you.

Average firearms per 100 people
UK 6.2;  USA 88.8

% of homicides by firearm
UK 6.6; USA 60


Is that difficult to understand, even for a child?


http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

[ArMaP]

Repealing the 2nd Amendment is fantasy.  Total abolition of guns is a fantasy - this is not Japan, the land in which Yamamoto (architect of the Pearl Harbor attack) told the war council to forget any notion of invading the US mainland - 'where there is a rifle behind every blade of grass'.

Two points about that:
1 - today, the US looks like the only country that still uses the military to take over other countries, most countries have "evolved" to commercial take-overs.
2 - people in the US, apparently, can only feel united when they face a common enemy, when they do not have a common enemy they see enemies everywhere.

Years ago, a student in  Mississippi started shooting. A vice principal went out to his truck and got his .45 and pointed it at the student's head.  It stopped.  This looks more promising to me than more deadly fantasies about how banning assault rifles, handguns or tougher licensing will accomplish anything  concrete.

A system like the one Portugal uses, where people with some types of job have a licence to carry a gun would be enough, after a change in the mentality in the US.

As long as the "shoot first ask questions latter" mentality remains, there is nothing that can be done about it.

[Eighthman]

Britain (and Europe) are sinking into tyranny and decay.   The past month a number of big officials were exposed as pedophiles.  A couple weeks later,  "experts" suggested that pedophiles avoid prison and be given community service instead. Burglars may be let off by giving them a stern lecture and women have to be careful what neighborhood they walk thru to avoid being accosted by religious thugs. 

Both my inlaws would have been condemned to death under NHS rules.  Instead, they lived for many years with stents and dialysis.

  Soldiers and police have joined street demonstrations in Spain and Portugal but lack the courage to oppose the banksters. I have to laugh at headlines predicting civil war in Greece, as if they had that degree of bravery left.

Guns did not stop George Bush because of his effective lies.  It's entirely true that most Americans have given up and accepted a path to servitude.  However, it makes no sense to acknowledge that the US is drifting into fascism and then seek to kick away the last possible crutch of freedom's support.

Giving up guns would be the last step, the final surrender of a once brave nation - although canceling the 2nd Amendment might lead to secession, almost directly.   A nation that stood up to Hitler and Communism now seems eager to cower when threatened by misfits on psychoactive drugs.