TAP VS The Military Mind

[zorgon]

[The Matrix Traveller]

The Marching Discipline is Shocking in this display..

Posture, and timing is terrible.

The Lower Leg should be vertical when the knee is raised and the toe pointing downward.   LOL.

Some are producing, what we refer to as "Platting".      The Alignment of the Legs cross over in the step as though they are on a "cat walk" !  LOL.

They look like they have been out on the plonk the night before.   

In the 1980's I was a Marching Instructor with my 1st wife.

Usually the Chinese put on a far better display than this...   

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

Well there you have it, real proof that China has a thriving robot industry.....
Or was that Korea?

The Lower Leg should be vertical when the knee is raised and the toe pointing downward.   LOL.

I was drill instructor with the air force cadets, Matrix is right, of course.
But that toe pointing down stuff is a shao-lin thing, not suited to the military at all, i would think.
Any Brit ex-forces want to comment on this?

[Amaterasu]

Wow.  Look at all the NON military in there.  If They were all properly armed unorganized militia, what are the odds, if They had to fight the military present, They would win?

Yes, the military mind is present in a small percentage.  BUT - what happens to a military if there is nothing to pay the soldiers with?  What if You cannot give Them anything They can't get for free?  You don't have an army, is what happens.  You may have a small gang - at best - but no underlings, no toadies, no goons, no rank and file.

So...  What's Your point, z?

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

I think Z's point is that you can't change people who have been programmed to be this way.
A military mind has but one goal: to win, by any means possible.
However, they have a big weak spot. Leadership.
They need someone to give them orders, without that they are clueless as to what to do.
Eventually, after some time without (military) leadership their own true human nature will assert itself.
They are humans like us, after all...

[Amaterasu]

Yes, Luke, it is true some will not adjust well, but rather than having the support base needed for the pyramid of power, You will have only a few Beings - Human or not - who may agree on how things should be but with no underlings.  Maybe a few diehard personal friends.  But the structure, presently held together with the delivery of a means to survive at some level of "richness" to PAY for the loyalty, service, goon action, etc. the foundation cannot be built except on ideology.  If statistically ALL of Us choose to ignore (or try to help) the Ones who cannot change to benefit both Themselves AND Humanity They really can't do much.

As for those seeking leadership, leaders will emerge.  But no ARMY, prepared to kill.  Sure many will gravitate to the mock battle scenarios, some preferring the medieval scene, others will have higher (or lower) tech involved.   Sure People will lead and follow.  But without survival on the line, without the percs (power) in the system of accounting for meaningful energy expended, the ability to sway Humans to battle (except in Self defense) will vanish.  Most grunts are there because it was sign up or resort to crime to survive.  Not because They want to KILL.

And if TAP hits the tipping point, We will see that We can achieve something never before available on this planet.  We can achieve a base system to provide well for basic needs, along with things there is a demand for, upon which to free each Human to Hume's gift, Hume's bliss - and work done by Ones whose bliss it is to do the work is done FAR better than by those who are doing it for a job.

So.  Sure.  There will be groups.  And the battles will be of the paintball sort.  Realistic enough, but not deadly as a rule.  (There may be some who agree to fight to the death - and as long as They are consenting adults, They can have at it.)

[The Matrix Traveller]

The ONLY true Leader is the LIFE Entity,  i.e. "Awareness", experiencing ALL!


Any other leadership is based on "Double Logic", embedded in the human Genome, producing "Superstition" and "Fear" !

If we rely on the "Human Species", all we are only going to get, is B.S.


When are we going to learn ?

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

As for those seeking leadership, leaders will emerge.  But no ARMY, prepared to kill.  Sure many will gravitate to the mock battle scenarios, some preferring the medieval scene, others will have higher (or lower) tech involved.

Are we talking about 'war games' instead of actual wars?

Certainly it would be good for those who like a bit of competition, exercise etc, get rid of their agression/ anger etc.
It works for all the bikers who are members of the 'Battle of Hastings Re-enactment Society' LOL
Zorgon would love it, on alternative years you can either be a Norman, Saxon, or Viking mercenary

And if TAP hits the tipping point, We will see that We can achieve something never before available on this planet

Indeed
I will have to read that book of yours again Amy, got it here somewhere.....

So.  Sure.  There will be groups.  And the battles will be of the paintball sort.  Realistic enough, but not deadly as a rule.  (There may be some who agree to fight to the death - and as long as They are consenting adults, They can have at it.)

Paintball wars?
More fun than elections, i'll give you that!

Duels, pistols at dawn, that sort of thing, worked really well until TPTB put an end to it.
If 2 people genuinely want to hurt each other,and cannot be dissuaded, then lock them in an arena & let them have at it
Only first they will have to sign a disclaimer that they will not be treated for their wounds before someone who was in a car accident etc, they will have to wait.
And they will be required to donate their organs if they get killed.
At least that way, they give something back to society, even in death

Awareness is a big word, Matrix
We have to become more aware of everything around us, each other, both the 'inner' & 'outer' worlds, more aware of this Program, though i'm not sure many of us can do all of that.

Bot Communication is the real deal here, those of us that see certain aspects of the 'whole' can report or explain it to others. That way we can start to build up a picture of how the universe really is, and maybe most importantly, our role in it.
Deep thoughts for sundays

[ArMaP]

Wow.  Look at all the NON military in there.  If They were all properly armed unorganized militia, what are the odds, if They had to fight the military present, They would win?

As I have been saying in all the guns laws threads, information is a much better weapon.

One good example is my boss. He was raised in a private, church-connected school, where they had an almost military training, so those schools were the first the government turned to when they needed people to train and send to war in the then Portuguese African colonies.

Having been properly brainwashed during all their lives (the dictatorship was very good at limiting information), they accepted as natural that they would need to fight for their country against the "communists" that were trying to steal the colonies from Portugal.

While on active duty in what is now Guinea-Bissau, he met a doctor that treated all the same way, those fighting "for their country" and those trying to get a country of their own, even one time when an officer told him not to take care of the enemies. He answered that he would stop only if the officer would kill him, as it was his duty as a doctor and as a human being to treat a wounded person.

My boss was very impressed with that (he is a person that is incapable of being unjust), so he started talking with the doctor. The doctor explained the situation to him, that there was no reason for an European country (any European country) to keep colonies just to strip them of what they could take from the land while the native people were treated almost as slaves (any white man had the right to beat a black man, for example).

It was that kind of thinking and the prospect of an unending war and injustice in the promotions that made a (at first) small group of captains to organise and make a revolution that ended the dictatorship and allowed the colonies to get their independence (although they were somewhat rushed and, in most cases, turned into internal wars, like what happened in Angola and Mozambique).

People, either on the military or civilian, are people; they have the same dreams, the same needs, the same problems, the same diseases, the same happy moments. You just have to show them the truth for them to see that they are on the wrong side.

That's why the Carnation Revolution was such a success, without a shot being fired by the revolutionaries and most of the people coming down to the streets to great them with what was more at hand at the time, carnations.

PS: sorry for keeping on talking about the Carnation Revolution, but witnessing a real revolution, done without any killing from the revolutionaries, to end a 48 years long dictatorship has marked me for the rest of my life.

[petrus4]

Having been properly brainwashed during all their lives (the dictatorship was very good at limiting information), they accepted as natural that they would need to fight for their country against the "communists" that were trying to steal the colonies from Portugal.

There are two types of mentality that can appear among military people that are extremely dangerous, in my observation.

The first is due to the soldier being deliberately starved of vital geopolitical information by his parent organisation.  (Government, army, whatever)  This is usually done for the express purpose of creating an entirely delusional and fictitious worldview within said soldier's mind.

In my 17 years of using the Internet, I can very safely say that I have never come across a more information-starved, or fundamentally delusional group of people than the American military.  They believe without question the lies which the civilian public are also told, as justification for the conflicts that they are in; but the difference is that at least a minority of civilians will actively seek out contrasting or opposing information, in order to verify said worldview, whereas soldiers will not only refrain from persuing said research, but will consider it a form of active loyalty to their government, to deliberately remain ignorant.  Said ignorance will also be aggressively (even savagely) defended, if it is challenged by civilians.

The second mentality, which is even more dangerous than the first, is that attitude which, after a certain period of time, begins to see continual warfare as an entirely natural way of life.  This is a mentality which considers it unavoidable and inevitable that somewhere, there will always be another theatre; and indeed wants there to be, because war becomes a source of validation, and an element of individual identity.  I will never forget the quote I once read about Vietnam.

"It may be a lousy war, but it's the only one we've got."

Zorgon has made certain statements about what he considers to be intractable human nature, but has subsequently admitted that at least a significant portion of the people he surrounds himself with, are current or former military.  There is a scientific term for that; it's known as confirmation bias.

As far as the claim that a need for leaders and followers in rigid terms is an element of pre-programmed, and inevitable, human nature is concerned; maybe.  My own research into the subject, however, has made me far more inclined to believe that such is a consequence of a very deliberate form of social acculturation and brainwashing, which has been taking place for at least the last 2,000 years, and possibly longer. 

Civilians are exposed to one type of mind control from the cradle, yes; and usually it is the kind which tells them to be submissive and obey authority, and to be infantile and largely mindless in the absence of a controlling authority.  Boot camp imposes its' own form of indoctrination, which includes a greater degree of autonomy than what civilians are allowed, (in some limited respects, such as the learning of survival skills) but which in another sense, actually regiments and controls the target's mind far more severely.  I have seen the effects of military indoctrination in a maternal uncle of mine, who is Dutch Afrikaans and served in the South African Navy.  Underneath what they did to him, has proven to be a good and kind man; but for many years, his training and experiences made him hard, distant, and largely emotionally unreachable.

As a third point, to answer the claim of whether or not there is a natural, emotional inclination towards militarism, from my own observation, I would probably say yes.  This does not, however, include the entirety of the human population; it does not include more than probably 25% of it.  My own greatest source of internal psychological conflict, arises from the fact that my own nature contains elements of both; tendencies towards aggression and rage on the one hand, and pacifism on the other, as well as from the fact that, reincarnationally speaking, I do not currently have a body which would support a military career, even if the entirety of my personality had wanted such a thing.  Given the background of some of my relatives, this has been a source of humiliation for most of my life.

So yes; Amaterasu is almost certainly correct when she says that, if a scenario such as TAP could exist, you would probably still see something like paintball or other forms of martial sport exist, among a certain number of individuals.

People, either on the military or civilian, are people; they have the same dreams, the same needs, the same problems, the same diseases, the same happy moments. You just have to show them the truth for them to see that they are on the wrong side.

This is true, but another danger where the American military in particular is concerned has shown itself, which is that of paternalism.  Military people tend to have a strong superiority complex, relative to civilians, and hence, even if they can be shown that by supporting the government they are on the wrong side, they are still likely to assume that they know better than the civilian population. 

In my own observation, as mentioned, the truth is actually the opposite.  The soldier, more than anything else, is a tool and pawn of the psychopath, and the psychopath's training of him will generally prevent him from being able to see that.

[ArMaP]

In my own observation, as mentioned, the truth is actually the opposite.  The soldier, more than anything else, is a tool and pawn of the psychopath, and the psychopath's training of him will generally prevent him from being able to see that.

Well, I guess there's only one option, then: people should raise their children as knowledgeable as possible about everything and train them to have a critical mind and then having them following a military career and trying to reach relatively high status inside the military, then trying to change it from the inside.

But I suppose that's just a dream.

[Cosmic4life]

The Marching Discipline is Shocking in this display..

Posture, and timing is terrible.

The Lower Leg should be vertical when the knee is raised and the toe pointing downward.   LOL.

Some are producing, what we refer to as "Platting".      The Alignment of the Legs cross over in the step as though they are on a "cat walk" !  LOL.

They look like they have been out on the plonk the night before.   

In the 1980's I was a Marching Instructor with my 1st wife.

Usually the Chinese put on a far better display than this...   

Hmmmm I remember an Irish Sergeant Major called Baron...lol.  or Drill Sergeant Bastard as he was affectionally called   

"You will now all refer to me as Sgt Bastard ....very soon you will grow to hate me..that's good I want you to hate me...you will want to be better than me..well that aint gonna happen...but in time you will grow to respect and understand why I'm about to be so cruel and heartless to you now...when the whole becomes greater than the some of its parts...you will thank me and buy me many many beers"

C..

[Amaterasu]

Are we talking about 'war games' instead of actual wars?

Certainly it would be good for those who like a bit of competition, exercise etc, get rid of their agression/ anger etc.

Absolutely!

I will have to read that book of yours again Amy, got it here somewhere.....

Ah.  One of the three who have bought My book?  Brilliant!  Do leave glowing remarks at Amazon, eh?

Paintball wars?
More fun than elections, i'll give you that!

An understatement if there ever was one!

Duels, pistols at dawn, that sort of thing, worked really well until TPTB put an end to it.
If 2 people genuinely want to hurt each other,and cannot be dissuaded, then lock them in an arena & let them have at it

As long as it is consensual and between adults, I agree.

Only first they will have to sign a disclaimer that they will not be treated for their wounds before someone who was in a car accident etc, they will have to wait.
And they will be required to donate their organs if they get killed.
At least that way, they give something back to society, even in death

I am for no restrictions.  As soon as You put restrictions on, You are limiting freedom.  And the whole goal was to create a society where, but for three Laws (which all deal with a narrow band of behaviors against Others), One is completely free.

[Amaterasu]

Well, I guess there's only one option, then: people should raise their children as knowledgeable as possible about everything and train them to have a critical mind and then having them following a military career and trying to reach relatively high status inside the military, then trying to change it from the inside.

But I suppose that's just a dream.

Not if We can take the profit out of war by eliminating the need to account, through exchange, for meaningful energy expended by adding effectively infinite energy available to all.

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

I understand you Amy, it's just that if someone (in a TAP society) was young, and in perfect health, decides to get him (or her) self killed in a duel, then they could at least do one last honourable thing, & donate organs to those of us that are very ill, after all, that very society has nurtured & fed them.
OK maybe not a restricion, but it should be encouraged, no?

We are wandering a little off topic here.
Games wil be very important, they helped to keep Rome stable for decennia
OK so no more christians & lions (sad for both) but maybe the Duels could be attended? And stuff like the Cirque D'Soleil, which uses only (very talented) human performers, & no animals at all.

Wandering again, sorry

I think that while a reason for having a gun still exists, then we will still have guns.
They are after all just tools, like robots or cars. Cars kill more people than guns, i should think, so that's where we should be concentrating our efforts...

Personally, i can handle a gun, but i do not own one. I rely on my brain & my bare hands to get me out of a situation, and i always have a very large wrench in my toolbox should negotiations (or my car) break down

Let's see if he can draw & fire before he gets my size 32 angled wrench in the head