Exclusive: U.S. plans to let spy agencies scour Americans' finances

[astr0144]

Exclusive: U.S. plans to let spy agencies scour Americans' finances

       

NEW YORK/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Obama administration is drawing up plans to give all U.S. spy agencies full access to a massive database that contains financial data on American citizens and others who bank in the country, according to a Treasury Department document seen by Reuters.

The proposed plan represents a major step by U.S. intelligence agencies to spot and track down terrorist networks and crime syndicates by bringing together financial databanks, criminal records and military intelligence. The plan, which legal experts say is permissible under U.S. law, is nonetheless likely to trigger intense criticism from privacy advocates.

Financial institutions that operate in the United States are required by law to file reports of "suspicious customer activity," such as large money transfers or unusually structured bank accounts, to Treasury's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN).

The Federal Bureau of Investigation already has full access to the database. However, intelligence agencies, such as the Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency, currently have to make case-by-case requests for information to FinCEN.

The Treasury plan would give spy agencies the ability to analyze more raw financial data than they have ever had before, helping them look for patterns that could reveal attack plots or criminal schemes.

The planning document, dated March 4, shows that the proposal is still in its early stages of development, and it is not known when implementation might begin.

Financial institutions file more than 15 million "suspicious activity reports" every year, according to Treasury. Banks, for instance, are required to report all personal cash transactions exceeding $10,000, as well as suspected incidents of money laundering, loan fraud, computer hacking or counterfeiting.

"For these reports to be of value in detecting money laundering, they must be accessible to law enforcement, counter-terrorism agencies, financial regulators, and the intelligence community," said the Treasury planning document.

A Treasury spokesperson said U.S. law permits FinCEN to share information with intelligence agencies to help detect and thwart threats to national security, provided they adhere to safeguards outlined in the Bank Secrecy Act. "Law enforcement and intelligence community members with access to this information are bound by these safeguards," the spokesperson said in a statement.

Some privacy watchdogs expressed concern about the plan when Reuters outlined it to them.

A move like the FinCEN proposal "raises concerns as to whether people could find their information in a file as a potential terrorist suspect without having the appropriate predicate for that and find themselves potentially falsely accused," said Sharon Bradford Franklin, senior counsel for the Rule of Law Program at the Constitution Project, a non-profit watchdog group.

Despite these concerns, legal experts emphasize that this sharing of data is permissible under U.S. law. Specifically, banks' suspicious activity reporting requirements are dictated by a combination of the Bank Secrecy Act and the USA PATRIOT Act, which offer some privacy safeguards.

National security experts also maintain that a robust system for sharing criminal, financial and intelligence data among agencies will improve their ability to identify those who plan attacks on the United States.

"It's a war on money, war on corruption, on politically exposed persons, anti-money laundering, organized crime," said Amit Kumar, who advised the United Nations on Taliban sanctions and is a fellow at the Democratic think tank Center for National Policy.

SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY

The Treasury document outlines a proposal to link the FinCEN database with a computer network used by U.S. defense and law enforcement agencies to share classified information called the Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communications System.

The plan calls for the Office of the Director of National Intelligence - set up after 9/11 to foster greater collaboration among intelligence agencies - to work with Treasury. The Office of the Director of National Intelligence declined to comment.

More than 25,000 financial firms - including banks, securities dealers, casinos, and money and wire transfer agencies - routinely file "suspicious activity reports" to FinCEN. The requirements for filing are so strict that banks often over-report, so they cannot be accused of failing to disclose activity that later proves questionable. This over-reporting raises the possibility that the financial details of ordinary citizens could wind up in the hands of spy agencies.

Stephen Vladeck, a professor at American University's Washington College of Law, said privacy advocates have already been pushing back against the increased data-sharing activities between government agencies that followed the September 11 attacks.

"One of the real pushes from the civil liberties community has been to move away from collection restrictions on the front end and put more limits on what the government can do once it has the information," he said.

Michael German, senior policy counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union, said that U.S. officials had floated a similar scheme to pool such data a decade ago, but that funding for the plan was later withdrawn by Congress.

He said one of the problematic aspects of the plan is that there is "wiggle room" on how the information will be used. In the past, the National CounterTerrorism Center, which is supposed to ensure that critical threat information is shared among various agencies, was obliged to "promptly identify and purge any innocent U.S. person information."

But the guidelines were subsequently loosened so that "not only can they keep the data for a number of years, but they can continue to use it," German said.

Once spy agencies get such data, German said, "it's in a black hole. Time and again, we have evidence, unfortunately well after the fact, that somebody's civil rights have been violated, that the intelligence community simply ignores the rules."

http://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-obama-administration-let-spy-agencies-scour-americans-184047547.html

[zorgon]

It's not really anything new. These days if you go for a job interview they check your financial condition first. If you always behind on your bills you would not make a focused employee and might rip off the company down the road.

End result  APPLICATION DENIED

[astr0144]

I am surprised if that has been the case in the USA or elsewhere..and was not fully aware of it...

I could imagine maybe for certain jobs that may be the case but I would be surprised if it applied to all Jobs.

Seems its hard to hide anything these days...

I am not sure if I would agree that they should have the right to judge someone if they have struggled to pay their bills on time, especially if they had been unemployed or had some other issues.

The question to me is would I agree that they should allow Spy agencies being given permission to look into peoples accounts..and certainly not unless they have a very good reason to do so.

But no doubt if they were looking into certain peoples accounts who may be seen as a threat, then no doubt its gone on for sometime already...( If things like the Bond or spy  Movies are anything to go by )

Trouble is these days its hard to know who the good guys are or who they are working for...Working for the Governments who seem to be corrupt anyway makes it concerning..

------------------------------------------------------------------

It's not really anything new. These days if you go for a job interview they check your financial condition first. If you always behind on your bills you would not make a focused employee and might rip off the company down the road.

End result  APPLICATION DENIED

[robomont]

personally survive without the need of the matrix.it is feasable.
today i found a two room tent that i cut the tarp out of.nice tarp.
found in dumpster.at park.
i have to admit somedays the world does turn in our direction.greatful for the gifts.

[astr0144]

No doubt Robo,
It can be possible to live to some degree without relying on the matrix that most 1st world Countries live in...and there is an incredible amount of things thrown away that are perfectly Ok and in good condition that one can make use of..

At one time it was possible to visit a local tip and find all sorts of stuff..
BUT these days.. they have security and cameras watching us and will not allow anyone officially to take anything away...I suspect Numerous electrical goods are being thrown away in good working order purely because people change or update to the latest fashion or thing.

There is no doubt at times it would be nice to think one could live simply off the land or on a desert Island and not have to worry about many of the rules and regulations and expectations in modern society.

[astr0144]

With ref to Employers doing checks on its potential future / employees..

Dependent upon the company or Job, I wonder what other checks that they do... I once worked for a large organization who often employed relatives or friends of its existing staff / employees. As often is the case they ask if you know anyone at the company when you apply or fill in the application form.

I happened to know someone from my youth that I had not seen for sometime and I didn't know if I should use their name or not when applying.. In the end I decided to  use it,  as I thought It may be better to use it rather than saying that I did not know anyone. I was led to believe this increased ones chances of obtaining a Job..

I was fortunate and got the job.. BUT I do not think that the person who I had used was too happy about it when he found out.

Later on I got the impression that they had also delved into my past friends & associates as they  seemed to know a lot of things about me that related to some of them...

I will be honest and say that if they had been relying on some of the associates opinions, that I myself would not have been too pleased.

So it does make me wonder just hope deep that they may go..
and in more modern times it seems a lot deeper than ever..

These days if you go for a job interview they check your financial condition first. If you always behind on your bills you would not make a focused employee and might rip off the company down the road.

End result  APPLICATION DENIED

[zorgon]

Dependent upon the company or Job, I wonder what other checks that they do...

Well for me since I was doing security installations in some 'interesting' places over 30 years, I was checked by Local Toronto, Salt lake City and Las Vegas police, RCMP, FBI, Interpol and probably a dozen others I am not aware of

Just assume everyone checks and monitors everything you do... then you don't have to worry

[zorgon]

I am not sure if I would agree that they should have the right to judge someone if they have struggled to pay their bills on time, especially if they had been unemployed or had some other issues.

That is not what they are looking for. Most people have had trouble paying bills at one time or another. What they look for is items that flag gambling habits and other such things. Also how many things you skipped out on.  People that do that are likely to not stay long at a job or steal from the company  Does Burger King care? maybe not

The question to me is would I agree that they should allow Spy agencies being given permission to look into peoples accounts..and certainly not unless they have a very good reason to do so.

But no doubt if they were looking into certain peoples accounts who may be seen as a threat, then no doubt its gone on for sometime already...( If things like the Bond or spy  Movies are anything to go by )

It is actually very easy for them. What it means is the crooks will have a hard time moving large sums of cash to the Cayman Islands or a Swiss Bank account. The little amounts you or I might move are of no concern. But drug deals, weapons deals, selling secrets or taking out hit contracts... all involve large sums that would show if they were allowed to just look without getting a warrant first.

The thing is it is already illegal to move large sums without showing good reason.  Say a gift from the family... used to be 5,000  now its 10,000 a year. If you send 10,001 it will flag.

And just try getting stopped at a check point or border crossing with 10,000 cash in your belt. It may be legal to have cash, but your gonna have to explain where ya got it and what its for

Working for the Governments who seem to be corrupt anyway makes it concerning..

Not all people working for the government are corrupt.. but they ALL have medical coverage, retirement benefits and vacation pay.

People talk about the FBI and CIA and the NSA now... but I have documented over 120 Spook agencies in the USA alone... IAO DIA ONI NGA NRO etc etc.  That is a whole lot of people sticking their nose in YOUR business

[astr0144]

Maybe over the last 30 years , it may well of been so many organizations were used..

But today you would think who ever was the higher ranked or level of organization... that they may just be happy with that !

As long as they know that you have had no past record..I would had thought that should had been acceptable..

But in such a job as security... then one can accept that they would delve deeper.

I was checked by Local Toronto, Salt lake City and Las Vegas police, RCMP, FBI, Interpol and probably a dozen others I am not aware of

Didn't think it had gone that far yet ! Or maybe they are monitoring my Toilet habits    But that I suspect will be when they request the smart meters to be inserted .

Just assume everyone checks and monitors everything you do

Well I think we all have good reason to be worried !

then you don't have to worry

[sky otter]

if you think for one second that they don't already know or can't find out all they want instantly
you are kidding yourself

most payrolls are going digital...that eliminates a payroll person.. it's now a computer program
... but to get paid  you now need to get a bank account...for that account
you have to give your social security number and other info
they can type in your ss number and know stuff even you don't know


guess where all the info goes for
all those nifty little store cards that will get you a discount at that store...
have you ever had a credit card...

it's all easily found already and wheather it's legal or not..they can still get it

there is no privacy..period.....probably never was



imo
the only difference now is some of them TELL you they are looking

[astr0144]

Seems that many rights or legal issues may have never really existed..

Or the rights of the majority are being eroded on a daily basis.

It seems that The word "legal" has little meaning these days.

it's all easily found already and wheather it's legal or not..they can still get it

[sky otter]

well Astro
it was just  proven  a few minutes ago when i called the local ymca to join a yoga class

i've never belonged to the Y so this may not be a new program
but when asking for the price i was told you can pay with a credit card or an e-draft..
i said ..a what..
she said ..you give us a check as the first month's payment and then
we just draft the bank every month after that..
i said ..can't i pay you a check every month.
.she says.. no they don't have the time to deal with money 
but you could uses your credit card every month

so i ask.. what if i don't want to belong any longer how is that handled
she says.. you sign an exit form two weeks before we would draft your account

.my sister signed up for sirius radio  via credit card for one year and didn't read the fine print
that they automatically charge your account unless you inform them two months beofre
the annual payment
it took her over a year to get out of that one

so..we're already trapped in a no cash world