First PEGASUS EXPERIMENT

[stealthyaroura]

ANTHRA that is some impressive CAD work I like it.
I think you raise a valid point in mentioning the negative results gained in thrust/lift
from the Tokamak I think whilst Robo's design uses different techniques and contents
it does raise some questions.
ROBO it's very ambitious & i applaud your determination and effort BUT (i know sorry)
Do you think the low tech heating you propose to use is the best way to go?
There seems to be little control once you fire up the torch what about gauges
and are you doing a water pressure test 1st.

It sounds like a one shot machine it may work it may explode. I would love to see
your diagramme completed. just to see if i can offer anything.

I have worked with high pressure pneumatics and hydraulics solenoids play a huge part
You say this will basically be one huge solenoid or will act in the same way?

Hmm i'm interested Robo. could you do your design in microsoft paint? with parts listed valves/gauges/flame source/effects expected?

[robomont]

im kinda confused by yalls confusion.isnt the pic on page one.obvious?
isnt it easy to imagine a three foot tall one ?
i welcome somebody producing a graphic of that pic.even a 3d rendering with the plasma flowing through the coil and the ionizing field and magnetic fields.

as far as one shot deal.absolutely.
thats why im building it on the cheap.
once i prove the concept then im sure the motivation of this team will carry it to next level.
otherwise i will.

im tired of getting speeding tickets.

[Anthra]

ANTHRA that is some impressive CAD work I like it.
I think you raise a valid point in mentioning the negative results gained in thrust/lift
from the Tokamak I think whilst Robo's design uses different techniques and contents
it does raise some questions.

I've been thinkin bout that. In semiconductors only two materials are used, Silicon and Germanium. It could be that there are properties of Mercury specifically that make this system work. Also, with the system I'm working on the material is rather specific, in my case niobium.

Just sayin that just because these effects are absent from Tokamak doesn't mean they don't exist. The description I read of "how" this works is interesting and raises several systems control questions; how dense is the plasma stream? What is its charge?

I'd like to see some serious science n this thing.

[robomont]

there are other semiconductors.gallium arsenide is what my uncle used to make emp proof heat seaking chips.
the tokamat had its mag field forced closed by a bigger mag field outside of it.if im correct.
im not pressurizing the thing with water.im pulling a vacuum.im using water to find internal volume.that way i know how much mercury to use.i dont want so much plasma the thing explodes.just enough to get it to fly.the charge at top of boiler will be positive and charge at bottom will be a negative .this is due to higher voltage gradient at top .the top will ionize positively all air molicules for a large area.so if it doesnt fly then it should make some great lightning.i believe thats what the stonehenge is.a platform to allow saucer to ionize air and not  arc to ground.the circle at the nazi bell sight also.

[stealthyaroura]

Actually from re-reading your description  ROBO i can picture it more clearly.
I meant are you doing a pressure test like they do with air compressor vessels
just so you no it won't burst or implode I have never performed a test on vacuum
but I guess it can be done.Has a kind of DIE GLOCK feel to it Robo
What you need is a scrap yard to roam about and rummage for parts you would find
EVERYTHING baring the mercury but I see you have found a source for that (bloody cheap one too)

I will keep me eye on your progress pal. I see you have some of "the beast's" components
Got to get the experiment on camera it may be epic in all manner of ways 
light it and RUN! get the bloody thing tethered or maybe a test rig?

[robomont]

as a parttime welder.i reasonably know whether a weld will hold or not.a vacuum test works faster and shows leaks.3000psi isnt really that high.growing up in the oilfield,ive got alot of experience with steel and iron works.

[Anthra]

 Ah yes Gallium, for got about that one. Not used much in our more "mundane" electronics, but is used for LEDs and Microwave electronics (it has very good high frequency properties).

On the volume of the device; that should be rather easy to compute, after all it is only a cylinder, and it dimensions fixed. Also, I've not seen any place where the density of the plasma has been spec'ed. This shouldn't be too much of a problem if the controllers are properly designed. With good design you can determine the density and control it over what should be a rather good range.

[robomont]

[robomont]

i dont think the chart above is correct.if someone can find the correct chart it would be appreciated.

im probly not using the proper search words.

[1Worldwatcher]

Anthra:

Your device you rendered in CAD is very similar to design's we have discussed with in 'Alcator' applications and implementation's for a form of alternative energy production.



Playswithmachines design and description of working parts (Hand drawn rendition)

1.  is a vacuum pump, one of the best being an old freezer compressor.

2.  A bypass valve, don't know if it's needed here...

3. is a 3-way valve, switching between the compressor, the gas tank (4) and the toroid, so arranged that you first suck all the air out, then switch to the gas tank to let the gas in (this can be any light gas, preferably Helium, or any mixture of gases etc)

4. Gas tank, see above.

5. The seal for the toroid, this is also the inlet/outlet port.

6. Seal.

7. is the toroid itself, in this case a glass tube from an old 'round' flourescent lamp, which has a 'viewing port' (10) scraped from the inside.
(in retrospect, it will be necessary to clean the entire inside of the tube to prevent vapourised phosphor coating interfering with the plasma)

8. One of a series of coils, designed to accelerate & confine the plasma.

9. is an annular (concentric) magnet, designed to assist the coils in containing the plasma, & maybe also to help accelleration, this may prove difficult because the plasma will react strongly to the magnet, so it may slow down the beam instead....

10. viewing port, see above.

8, 12, and 13 are the main 'drive' coils, again they may have a useful dual function if they can be used to extract energy from the plasma.

11 is an extra coil, purely for measuring current density of the plasma.

14. Is a flat coil, purely to see what happens when a second field at 90 degrees is introduced....

15. is yet another magnet, placed in line with the plasma instead of across it, also just for experimentation, to see how the plasma reacts.

The Alcator Solution— Compact Size, High Magnetic Field Intensity

A plasma is a gaseous sea of positively charged atoms, called ions, and free, negatively charged atomic particles called electrons. The behavior of plasmas is extremely complex, and the task of controlling a superheated plasma with magnetic fields has been compared to suspending a piece of jello between rubber bands.

The Alcator C-Mod experiment and its predecessors, Alcator C and Alcator A, belong to a class of devices called tokamaks, which use magnets to confine the plasma in a donut shape, called a torus. There are major tokamak experiments all over the world working at the leading edge of controlled fusion research, and dozens of smaller, less powerful devices. Alcator C-Mod is the newest, most advanced world-class tokamak, 
Video shot of confined plasma. 
built to explore the physics of plasmas in a compact, high field environment.
The word Alcator is an acronym derived from the Italian words Alto Campo Torus, meaning high field torus, and the magnetic fields developed inside the Alcator tokamaks are among the highest ever achieved.
Alcator's high confining fields let researchers experiment with plasmas hotter and denser than those in machines of similar size. In fact, Alcator C was the first device to produce the density and confinement of hot plasma necessary for a useful fusion reaction.

The object of this thing was to see how & if a plasma may be contained, rotated, experimented upon, and for very low cost.
ETA: the reason i used 3 coils is because you can feed them from a standard industrial 3-phase motor control, which will give you control of the voltage, current, frequency etc. No complex electronics needs to be built-it exists already
Just one of the crazy ideas i get now & then.
But since we are getting into this a lot further than i had ever imagined 12 years ago, we may as well build it.

Radiant Energy Power Box by Tom

May be of some use as far as your design goes robo, but with Tokamak research, there are some fine lines between weapon's and applicable every day power supplies.

Will have too render PWM's Alcator with in CAD as well, PC just wasn't liking me a few months ago, then I got the Virus, wiped out hundreds of researched pages and still haven't recovered them all.

[robomont]

a freezer one works best of salvaged ones but a new ac one pulls down better and faster.

[1Worldwatcher]

a freezer one works best of salvaged ones but a new ac one pulls down better and faster.

Might find slow and gradual will produce more precise and desirable effects. And you don't need a Cryonic episode to achieve acceptable boundaries with in the cooling apparatus.

1WW

[Anthra]

1WW,

Yeah I see that.

I lean a bit more toward this one however:


For either application.

The Ion supply / inlet on the other is at right angles, and thus may present a flow issue for new plasma. This design however uses an injector that is more "inline" with the plasma ring. Most of the other stuff; magnets, etc. are more of a "bolt - on" nature.

If we place a plasma accelerator just after the injector we shouldn't have many "injection" issues. I'm also thinking that there should be "conductivity" sensors inside to assist in maintaining density, as well as possible vortex detection / mapping.

[robomont]

[robomont]

the green line in center is steel pipe.the red is the ionizing ball/pollished freon bottle.the blue is the spiral high pressure tubing.welded at bottom and middle to make two circuits for plasma to flow through and make a giant magnetic field.
the pink is the ionizing hv field coming off top.the other green is the ions being pulled by the magnetic field.

sorry pic is sideways as done on droid.