Water To Fuel Converter - (Explosive Gas by Electrolysis)

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

Glad to be back, even if it's short sessions, i'm kind of overloaded with work right now

OK i'll leave it there for now, but you know i'm planning a 'pegileaks' campaign to give members some real meat so to speak, heck this info is all open sourced.

Only i was with the original group that succeeded in running cars on water.

Twice.

So I.F. members, please read the entire thread, it's way back in the list because it was one of the first threads i ever posted here.

(Please tell me the links still work or not, so i can fix them)

Without spilling too many details, we tried both a high-tech & a low-tech approach.

The low tech was jam jars & stainless plates, it worked to some degreee but there are far better deigns already on YT, one got posted in our forum if i remember...

The high tech approach was literally an exact copy of Mayer's multi-pipe fuel cell.

It works a treat, ant that guy is already selling parts for DIY conversions.
Seems he's too busy to accept my invite to join us here but i can still contact him for tech info, no problem

The latest one is even more efficient than the Meyer design, and simpler to build, it's the one made from a stack of (stainless?) bowls stacked up like, well, a stack of plates on the table.

Seeker, i would like to see info onthat, but it would work well i guess.

Electrolysis works by high voltage pulses, and resonance.

This breaks the H-O bonds using very little energy.

Meyer also used other tricks including something called 'laser conditioning' of the H-O-H condensate just before it went into the engine.

I have seen (like those posted by Z etc) HHo torches, even seen an HHO barbecue on YooToob.

So anyone still saying it doesnt work because of that flawed logic of putting the same energy in to split the water, have completely lost that one

If you can split water using less than 100 watts to power a 100 HP engine, that means there is definitely about 7000% efficiency going on.

Confused? You should be, so are we, but it works nonetheless

Matrix told me about many other uses for water, it's really amazing stuff that we take for granted, but it seems like water is actually the powerhouse of the universe.

[stealthyaroura]

This was so promising I'm sure I will get "schooled" yet again about the current progress in this field.
the nuclear battery.This would be the perfect device to power the circuit IF we're going with HH0 production to run an internal combustion engine.Take away the alternator so there is no load on the engine. power ALL the other electrics ie lights ,rad fan,cigar lighter
Or do we just go totally electric and forget about the internal combustion engine for transport?
http://www.scienceagogo.com/message_board3/messages/1350.shtml

Bloody dangerous business this free energy lark. if TPTB/big oil don't kill you or your family they may certainly ruin your life.
But think of all that nasty toxic waste just waiting to be safely harnessed and used for the good of the planet for a change.

EDIT TO ADD what is PWM intention for the use of the generator he is working on?A power supply to create HHO as fuel for an automobile? or is to get off the grid? both ?

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

Both.
All of the above, plus a few new ones like a portable fusion reactor

Hopefully i can get back on those projects soon, just to busy right now, need to make some cash for the next projects & get Ron his assistant

ETA: the idea was to use HHO as a stopgap measure until the really high tech stuff is up & running.
HHO means you can run all existing engines. Boats, planes, cars, generators etc.

Dont know about a HHO jet, but the piston engine types could run on water...

[stealthyaroura]

GREAT IDEA PWM my thoughts exactly.convert existing technology as 99% of the hardware
is there and proven.I know the money thing it's a bloody nightmare for a lot of us here in the UK.

[Back]

PWM
Glad to see you are alive and well. There has been a big shake up in the Dollard camp as well as a few other alternate energy places. Had me worried that it was happening here. Hope we can talk soon.

Sorry Z for the rant.
Bless
Back

[stealthyaroura]

A few years ago I pulled a box from a skip with a plug on it.It was a piezo electric humidifyer.
you can guess where i'm going with this

yep I often wondered what if I put petrol on that disk? can I place some kind of setup in a manifold?
well I had a clear out and chucked it bad move looking back, but a quick look on tube and there are some vids of works in progress but some look overly complicated.so the theory is sound.

I bet there may even be a commercial version? there should be by my reckoning it just makes sense. even the output of the "fog" could be throttled as there were control knobs on my humidifier for this.

surely this could be a way to improve fuel efficiency? I have even seen the odd fuel and water combo being run and it should work.
have any of you guys done research into this method of fuel delivery?

[The Matrix Traveller]

Having spent many years (Professionally) in engine design I can say that the fuel
is the heat source in an internal combustion engine, whether in your car or a turbine engine.

Its NOT the burning fuel which either pushes that piston down
in your cars engine or rotates the blades in a gas turbine engine, but instead
it is the expanding Nitrogen which can't burn easily, that pushes
the piston down or rotates the blades in a gas turbine engine..

So the efficiency of an internal combustion engine (including gas turbines) is reliant
on the "Thermal efficiency" of the engine.

The first problem arises in that the ratio of oxygen to nitrogen (in our air) is not 100%
suitable for an internal combustion engine. In fact there is too much oxygen in the airs ratio.

The Earths atmosphere has about 78% Nitrogen and about 21% oxygen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth


The Oxygen is the one of interest, and for the most desirable Combustion, about 15% oxygen
is most desirable, (affecting Thermodynamics in the engine) but what upsets things is that,
the fuel requires a different mixture of oxygen & fuel suitable to maintain stoichiometric mixture.

Note the Nitrogen is NOT strictly involved in the Combustion process even some nitrogen oxides
are often found in exhaust gas's. The Nitrogen is the component which expands being heated by
the Oxidisation (burning) fuel.



So what is happening in an internal combustion engine, is that too much energy is generated
for the amount of Nitrogen, and as a result "Thermal Mass" is increased in the engine block.

If we choose another fuel, other than petrol, then the above scenario changes accordingly.

i.e. alternative fuels esp. when designing engines in the high performance (Competitive) industry.

This is why we use different fuels in Racing, as it takes into account the stoichiometric ratios
as well as ratios (oxygen to Nitrogen) affecting the Thermal Mass in the engine.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/carnot.html

http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/SPRING/propulsion/notes/node23.html



By using EGR, ("Exhaust Gas Recycling") displacing a little of the air intake, changes the ratio
of nitrogen to oxygen which can increase power out put between 10% to 15%.
As a result fuel consumption is improved and a little increase in power.
Ideally this needs to be computer controlled.

Note; EGR is Not only used to affect exhaust gas's for environmental reasons.

-------------------------------

"Thermal efficiency" can also be dramatically improved, by reducing the "Thermal mass" present
in the engines components.

The main problem involves the transfer of energy back to the engine block from the exhaust manifold.

This can be overcome by insulating the exhaust manifold from the engine block.

But if we do this attention must be given to Piston materials and piston to cylinder wall clearances.

If design features are not changed then you run the risk of seizure.

--------------------------------------

The additional power received from water injection is around the fact that water can not
be compressed so the compression pressure rises.

And secondly water expands somewhat, when heated to high temperatures.
Especially if "Supper heated steam" is produced. (Very High Expansion)

So regarding water injection it is desirable to preheat the water first.
Coil the water supply piping around the exhaust manifold and then inject a fine spray
into the intake as close as possible to the intake valves.

The down fall though, is "Water injection" increases thermal mass but this can be reduced
by thermally isolating the exhaust manifold from the engine block.

Remember "piston clearances" should be increased accordingly, or use different piston alloys.

[stealthyaroura]

Having spent many years (Professionally) in engine design I can say that the fuel
is the heat source in an internal combustion engine, whether in your car or a turbine engine.

Its NOT the burning fuel which either pushes that piston down
in your cars engine or rotates the blades in a gas turbine engine, but instead
it is the expanding Nitrogen which can't burn easily, that pushes
the piston down or rotates the blades in a gas turbine engine..

So the efficiency of an internal combustion engine (including gas turbines) is reliant
on the "Thermal efficiency" of the engine.

The first problem arises in that the ratio of oxygen to nitrogen (in our air) is not 100%
suitable for an internal combustion engine. In fact there is too much oxygen in the airs ratio.

The Earths atmosphere has about 78% Nitrogen and about 21% oxygen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth


The Oxygen is the one of interest, and for the most desirable Combustion, about 15% oxygen
is most desirable, (affecting Thermodynamics in the engine) but what upsets things is that,
the fuel requires a different mixture of oxygen & fuel suitable to maintain stoichiometric mixture.

Note the Nitrogen is NOT strictly involved in the Combustion process even some nitrogen oxides
are often found in exhaust gas's. The Nitrogen is the component which expands being heated by
the Oxidisation (burning) fuel.



So what is happening in an internal combustion engine, is that too much energy is generated
for the amount of Nitrogen, and as a result "Thermal Mass" is increased in the engine block.

If we choose another fuel, other than petrol, then the above scenario changes accordingly.

i.e. alternative fuels esp. when designing engines in the high performance (Competitive) industry.

This is why we use different fuels in Racing, as it takes into account the stoichiometric ratios
as well as ratios (oxygen to Nitrogen) affecting the Thermal Mass in the engine.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/carnot.html

http://web.mit.edu/16.unified/www/SPRING/propulsion/notes/node23.html



By using EGR, ("Exhaust Gas Recycling") displacing a little of the air intake, changes the ratio
of nitrogen to oxygen which can increase power out put between 10% to 15%.
As a result fuel consumption is improved and a little increase in power.
Ideally this needs to be computer controlled.

Note; EGR is Not only used to affect exhaust gas's for environmental reasons.

-------------------------------

"Thermal efficiency" can also be dramatically improved, by reducing the "Thermal mass" present
in the engines components.

The main problem involves the transfer of energy back to the engine block from the exhaust manifold.

This can be overcome by insulating the exhaust manifold from the engine block.

But if we do this attention must be given to Piston materials and piston to cylinder wall clearances.

If design features are not changed then you run the risk of seizure.

--------------------------------------

The additional power received from water injection is around the fact that water can not
be compressed so the compression pressure rises.

And secondly water expands somewhat, when heated to high temperatures.
Especially if "Supper heated steam" is produced. (Very High Expansion)

So regarding water injection it is desirable to preheat the water first.
Coil the water supply piping around the exhaust manifold and then inject a fine spray
into the intake as close as possible to the intake valves.

The down fall though, is "Water injection" increases thermal mass but this can be reduced
by thermally isolating the exhaust manifold from the engine block.

Remember "piston clearances" should be increased accordingly, or use different piston alloys.

yep could not of put it better myself.
this is why the fancy branch exhaust manifolds are thermally wrapped. same goes for water injection increases the compression ratio and helps solve detonation issues.
Nitrous oxide we can add this too into the mix, NO it is not incredibly flammable (a common misconception) it creates more oxygen and nitrogen as well as cooling air making it more dense allowing more of the mixture to be drawn into the combustion chamber.

nice post matrix T another petrol head

[The Matrix Traveller]

The "Thermal insulation" I was referring to, replaces the exhaust manifold 'Gasket',
Along with thermal isolation from the mounting 'studs'.

"Exhaust wrap" often used, is used for much different reasons though.

1.    Lower the energy contained in the engine compartment.
and
2.    Gas's flow much easier at higher temperatures.

But the "Thermal insulation" I was referring to.... was to isolate the exhaust manifold
from the engine block, to prevent energy building up in the manifold, flowing back
into the Engine block itself, where we don't want it !

Thus reducing the "Thermal Mass", in the Engine block itself.

This allows the intake temperature (in the Cylinder) to become much lower,
which means on the intake and compression strokes, the air and fuel
in the cylinder are at a much lower temperature.
This enables a much denser intake of air.   


NOTE;   While the intake cycle is taking place, energy from the engine block
flows into the air fuel mixture causing the mixture to expand, and so reduces the density
and quantity by weight left in the cylinder when the intake valve closes.

So by reducing the engines "Thermal Mass", has a profound affect on the density
of the air fuel mixture, at the point the intake valve closes.

[The Matrix Traveller]

Regarding a water type engine This engine described below is essentially a Low RPM High torque engine.

There is only one intelligent setup and that is a closed loop engine.

By being "Closed loop" I mean the water is changed between two states without any exhaust !

1.  Its liquid form
and
2.  Its Gaseous state, NOT steam but H2O2 

(This I have known about for some years now.)

Basically it involves a cylinder and piston.
A Ceramic cylinder is encapsulated in an outer metal cylinder, (Metal outer is for Strength)
or can be a Steel Cylinder coated internally with Ceramic (of the electrically isolative type)
with one end closed.

The closed end of the Cylinder, must also be coated in the same ceramic.

At the open end of the cylinder, install a thin wall bush and a Stainless Steel piston. (solid Rod)
So when the Piston (Solid Rod) is fully inserted, the gap between the Piston and the Cylinder wall
is no more than 0.1 mm.

The opposite end of the piston's stroke, insert an electrode isolated from the metal cylinder.
(to serve as a "Spark plug".)

Now charge the cylinder with steam, in a low pressure environment, and partially insert the cylinder
using some pressure applied to the piston.

Allow the steam to cool and condense in the cylinder, so the piston is drawn inside the cylinder,
to nearly contact the closed end. Some small clearance is required though.

A suitable double back to back seal should be used at the open end of the cylinder.

The Piston (A solid Round bar) is attached by a con. rod to a Crank.


To run the device.

Connect the Piston and outer steel casing to a VHV oscillating source (ignition coil) momentarily.
(a few milliseconds)

So between the piston and cylinder forms a HV capacitance.

The thin film of water (forming part of the dielectric) will be rapidly converted to H2O2
and the piston will be pushed toward the open end of the cylinder.

When the piston reaches the end of its stroke, then ignite the H2 & O2 by the spark plug.

The H2 is now oxidised by the O2, (Burnt) and the water reverts back to its liquid state,
and the piston is drawn (Sucked) back into the cylinder.

So you see we have a "2 stroke engine" working on a closed loop principal,
changing H2O between its two states.

No exhaust = NO pollution.


The only source of power required, is electric which can be achieved by using a "piezo-ignite" !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezo_ignition

This can both supply the power at the spark plug, as well as the small current, required to convert
the state of water from a liquid to a gas. (H2O2)

But use an induction coil to obtain the oscillations required. This will require a little tuning.

The capacitance method of obtaining H2O2 is far, far, more efficient, than the "current method"
of conversion used today.

The capacitive method does NOT require a Catalyst.

The change is made by the Plasma occurring between the piston and cylinder wall,
where the capacitive action takes place.

So the water and ceramic are both components of the dielectric.

See my previous post on converting water to H2O2...

[zorgon]

maybe we should move the petrol headness over to Elvis H's thread Top Gear?
or too much work? i don't mind either way.

Yeah was thinking the same   Will do tomorrow

[zorgon]

Gary Stenzel
Water Decomposition by AC Electrolysis
Letter Dated Aug 13, 2006

The file Andrija Puharich: Water Decomposition by AC Electrolysis explains most of my project. I'm pretty busy, and I don't have much extra time to work on this at all. That's why it's going pretty slowly at the present time.

The 2 pics "inside" and "outside" are of my modified reaction chamber. Basically, all it is is a PVC tank with a screw-off lid. Inside is mounted a 2" piece of copper pipe, inside that is a 1" copper pipe. If it all works as planned they will be changed out with stainless steel.

One wire is soldered to each copper pipe and the solder connection is sealed off with silicone. The two wires will come out near the top of the tank and be siliconed  inside and out to try to make the container air-tight.

I also included scans of my 3 circuits. There is a 600hz audio oscillator, a 62985hz oscillator for the carrier frequency, and an amplitude modulator to connect it all together.

If you have any questions, you can email me at venus fly trap@att.net.

- Gary


AM Modulator


Audio Oscillator


Carrier Oscillator


Inside View


Outside View

All Images and Text on this page  © 2006 by Gary Stenzel
Printed by Permission
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/32garys_files/Gary001.html

[zorgon]

Andrija Puharich: Water Decomposition by AC Electrolysis

Dr Andrija Puharich reportedly drove his motor home for hundreds of thousands of miles around North America in the 1970s using only water as fuel. At a mountain pass in Mexico, he collected snow for water. Here is the only article he wrote on the subject, plus his patent:

Andrija Puharich: Water Decomposition by AC Electrolysis

Cutting The Gordian Knot of the Great Energy Bind
by Andrija Puharich

US Patent # 4,394,230
Method & Apparatus for Splitting Water Molecules
Henry K. Puharich
(July 19, 1983)

[PLAYSWITHMACHINES]

That's a very neat system Matrix, and of course you are dead right about infernal combustion. A great post
I would love to have a go at a closed loop system.
Bit like a Sterling engine

Our man who did the low-tech system had a bootfull of jam-jars & it drew 12 amps, and it didn't produce enough to run the engine, but it improved his milege by 30%.

The stan meyer system reports 100% running on water, but i havent seen it myself. The guy is actually a member here but he has never posted....
I have seen his video's and we used to chat daily, i know he's busy designing & selling kits for DIY conversions.

We had an interesting problem with the low tech system, the MAP sensor.
It didn't like HHO and it kept trying to compensate by changing the fuel ratio.
So we had to fool it into thinking the engine had enough oxygen & didn't need any more fuel