Skype: Why we should not be using it.

[Pimander]

I am about to reproduce a press release from the free software foundation.  It summarises why we should not be using Skype - particularly if we believe in freedom.

Apart from the reasons given in the press release, Skype is the single easiest chat protocol for the authorities to listen in on.  Think about it guys.  Free clients like Pidgin, use pretty much any protocol EXCEPT SKYPE!  Skype is effectively spyware.  If you are being advissed to use Skype then you are getting bad advice.

Anyway, enough of the lecture, the release is in the next post.

[Pimander]

How to break free from Skype

(Did you a)void being locked in as Microsoft turn(ed) off Windows Messenger?

On April 8, Microsoft will discontinue its Windows Messenger service. All current users will be switched to Skype. The Free Software Foundation Europe advises former users of Windows Messenger to take this as an opportunity to embrace Open Standards such as Jabber (XMPP) instead of switching to Skype.

"Crucial technology should not be controlled by a single entity, but instead rely on the sort of Open Standards that have made the Internet great" says Matthias Kirschner of FSFE. "MSN users should switch to Open Standard technologies, like the XMPP protocol, and Free Software chat programs." The Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (XMPP, previously called Jabber) is widely deployed across the Internet. This standard is not closed or secret; it is governed by an independent foundation with many stakeholders. It can be implemented in any software, and not only gives users the choice of which client to use, but also which servers to trust.

By switching all users to Skype, Microsoft is replacing one locked down technology with another. Acquired by Microsoft in 2011, the proprietary Skype software is widely used for audio and video communication, as well as chatting. Its workings are secret and substantial efforts are made to prevent reverse engineering. Skype's services have serious drawbacks. Their closed, secured-through-obscurity protocol takes freedom away from users.

Skype's technology forces people to join the walled garden in order to keep communicating with others, and locks them in. It also makes oversight and checks by communities or independent experts nearly impossible.

"Microsoft and Skype have absolute control over all communications going through their network,"

says FSFE's Torsten Grote. "Once aggregated, the power given to Skype by each individual user endangers freedom on a global scale. Skype is already abusing this power with attacks on privacy, data retention , censorship, and eavesdropping."

The ability to communicate freely is vital, and this is just what Open Standards-driven communication methods such as XMPP provide. People that have the ability to run their own XMPP server are strongly encouraged to do so. The more distributed the XMPP network is, the more resistant it is to censorship and failures. People who prefer not to run their own server are invited to use an XMPP service provider that they trust. FSFE, for example, provides a XMPP server for all their Fellows. "The technology that we rely on should never be controlled by only one entity. Ideally we all control it together. We should be careful not to build new walled gardens." says Grote. "Most companies already agree on XMPP. Only the companies that want to lock-in their users go their own way on this. Even Facebook uses XMPP, but unfortunately they still don't allow their users to talk to people outside of Facebook."

Free Software Foundation Europe press release, 2013-04-02

[Pimander]

How to move to a Free Software chat solution based on Open Standards

1.  Download a free client.  Pidgin is very good.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Free_XMPP_clients

2.  Install it and start it.

3.  If you don't have an existing XMPP account, log in to one of the many public XMPP services using your preferred username. Your client will automatically create the account.

4.  Add your contacts

5.  Start chatting with others on the XMPP network!

I think PRC should host our own server to make eavesdropping almost impossible.  I don't think we should be communicating anything sensitive via the worst chat client of the lot, which is Skype.

Pidgin runs on Windows, Linux and OSX.  Why not give it a try?

http://www.pidgin.im/

IM all your friends in one place

Pidgin is an easy to use and free chat client used by millions. Connect to AIM, MSN, Yahoo, and more chat networks all at once.

Supported chat networks:

    AIM
    Bonjour
    Gadu-Gadu
    Google Talk
    Groupwise
    ICQ
    IRC
    MSN
    MXit
    MySpaceIM
    SILC
    SIMPLE
    Sametime
    XMPP
    Yahoo!
    Zephyr

[deuem]

Easy answer, No Audio or Video. Skype has all 3. Text, Audio and Video plus file sharring.

If you can find one that can replace it, let me know. until then I have little choice. And if big brother wants to listen in, do you really think switching to another station is going to stop them.

I use Skype for other work also and so far the bennies outway to trouble that I never had yet.

If it is designed to ease drop then so would all the others. It s just too easy to get trapped up in all of this cloak and dager stuff.

On the fence with no pillow,  Deuem

[ArMaP]

It also makes oversight and checks by communities or independent experts nearly impossible. "Microsoft and Skype have absolute control over all communications going through their network," says FSFE's Torsten Grote. "Once aggregated, the power given to Skype by each individual user endangers freedom on a global scale. Skype is already abusing this power with attacks on privacy, data retention , censorship, and eavesdropping.

The above can be said about phone operators.

I wonder how difficult it would be to make our own.

[1Worldwatcher]

I have too agree here with Deuem and ArMap , Pimander.

Skype offer's everything that allows communication not only personable, but very convenient for friends that live in other countries. As we can attest to as we use this method rather frequently.

I pretty much think, that if there is a 'WWW' in front of the type of communication being used, I am sure it could or is being tapped by any of TPB at any given time, some kind of spider voice recognition or something, same as key word matching via the texting and Emailing using the 'WWW', can't say positively, but if you watch how you talk , text or anything at all similar dealing with spelling or vocalization of such words, one can avoid being 'Allocated' for such scrutiny of big Bros. But Just my personal opinion here.

1WW

[Pimander]

ArMaP, It would be very easy to create our own.   Unfortunately my host does not have a one click installable XMPP server (then again, I might have found something).  I can set up a text chat page in five minutes (so can Zorgon).  Feel free to log into my cPanel if you think you can do anything.

Do you mean design a client?  If we just host our own server then any simple client should work, or even a page on Peggy.


Deuem, if you use Linux then Empathy does all of those things.  It runs on most Linux desktops (it is written for the Gnome desktop).

Empathy

Empathy is a messaging program which supports text, voice, video chat, and file transfers over many different protocols. You can tell it about your accounts on all those services and do all your chatting within one application.

Empathy uses Telepathy for protocol support and has a user interface based on Gossip. Empathy is the default chat client in current versions of GNOME, making it easier for other GNOME applications to integrate collaboration functionality using Telepathy.

Current features

Multi-protocol: Google Talk (Jabber/XMPP), MSN, IRC, Salut, AIM, Facebook, Yahoo!, Gadu Gadu, Groupwise, ICQ and QQ. (Supported protocols depend on installed Telepathy Connection Manager components.) Supports all protocols supported by Pidgin.
    File transfer for XMPP, and local networks.
    Voice and video call using SIP, XMPP and Google Talk.
    Some IRC support.

    For detailed list of supported protocol features see here

    Conversation theming (see list of supported Adium themes).
    Sharing and viewing location information.
    Private and group chat (with smileys and spell checking).

    Conversation logging.
    Automatic away and extended away presence.
    Automatic reconnection using Network Manager.
    Python bindings for libempathy and libempathy-gtk
    Support for collaborative applications ("tubes"). 

https://wiki.gnome.org/Empathy

Empathy, like all Gnome Project software is free and open source.

  Surely Windows users

[Pimander]

I have too agree here with Deuem and ArMap , Pimander.

You're the one who was hacked on Skype.

Listen, sometimes Pimander is right.  This is one of those times.  WE SHOULD NOT USE SKYPE.  Especially if the communication is sensitive.

If you must, use it for video calls. I thought you lot wanted freedom?

ETA:  It isn't just a cloak and dagger issue.  It is primarily the principle of Microsoft not "owning" our right to communicate by owning the protocol.

[1Worldwatcher]

You're the one who was hacked on Skype. ::

Yes, I know Pim, and I know it sounds strange for me to defend my use of Skype, but, my PC was really messed up at the time, when I had this fixed, and everything rectified, and all my protection in place , not to  mention some in-depth reading of the Q&A section of the Skype Disclosure and Legal statement's, my PC is running great, my protection is OTC so very personable, and not WWW sharing. And since that time, and with me being more educated on the use of such communication types of website over the Net, I have never had another incident.

I do know your concern my friend for our privacy's, and I too believe the Gubment does step over their boundaries of Power, but, for me, it is an educated thing one does when and before ever signing up with such Programs and services. All I can say is "READ THE FINE PRINT" and then you can actually get to a protected place as far as being hacked or risking being 'Intercepted' at any given time.

Believe me PIM, after my experience, and how freaking crappy that scenario all turned out, I have gotten my ducks in a row, as far as understanding what is what. Though I am sure you are correct with the ease dropping, I am almost positive this can happen on any given URL or other alphabet created WWW address for such thing's like Skype offer's.

And for all it's worth "Thank You PIM!!" this situation ring's fresh with in my thought's every day I log into Peggy, Not my fault, but still paying, and I am here because of a few of you knew that it wasn't me. "Thank you all ! ! " (You know who you are... ) I have become much more aware and educated over the use of Skype!! And if I were to sign on with another service for PC communication, you can bet your bottom dollar that I am reading everything before I even sign up with in it's community.

1WW

1WW

[thorfourwinds]

thor4winds@yahoo.com




FUKUSHIMA FALLOUT CLOCK - Elapsed Time since March 11, 2011 2:46 PM JST

[Pimander]

Don't worry Bill.  I wasn't thinking about that incident when I posted this thread.  I just worry sometimes that we do deal with sensitive material and we should be careful.  We also should not be supporting Microsoft when they try to ring fence technologies.

Free and open internet so I can be secretive. 

[1Worldwatcher]

Don't worry Bill.  I wasn't thinking about that incident when I posted this thread.  I just worry sometimes that we do deal with sensitive material and we should be careful.  We also should not be supporting Microsoft when they try to ring fence technologies.

Understood and Duly noted Pim.

Free and open internet so I can be secretive. 

Yes, and maybe one day, with out any doubt , this may come to fruition, but for now, anything over the Net is at risk, or am I being over cautious?

1WW

[deuem]

Hi Pim, I am on Windows Xp in China.

We all take it for granted that every key stroke, phone call, email, letter, search is recorded somewhere. All Outside internet connections go through a clearing house that about 5,000 snoops work at. If I watch a movie they delay it about 15 to 30 seconds as they watch it before me and cut the connection if a un-wanted subject matter comes up. It is there way of keeping the bad out. Right or wrong, thats what they do. Every search I do on an international web site is scanned first.

It was very funny, about a year ago. I tracked my pings right to the building and googled it to see it/ So I know where it is and why it is there. I say high to my friends there all the time/ HI!

A few days after my investigation on ping tracing they caught up with me and now the trace routes are blocked. They show hits but no addresses. lol Someone worked some OT on that one.
Most of the time now they send a signal back down the line that bounces or scrambles the router. It must be reset. In my new place that is very hard to do, it is in a wall pocket in the main entry room. In my old office I placed the router and modem on their own switch box that I could reach from my office chair. click click and back on.

I take it for granted that the same thing is being done in the states. All of my international ping hits that go from here through Europe to the states go right to the CIA building in Washington DC. Hello? Dirrectly there, then sent out. These guys have nothing else to do but sit around and listen to all the stuff we write and say. maybe we can just get them to join and save the time of intercepting everything. My guess is that they are not after us in anyway, they are after the big fish. We are not even minnows.

Deuem, Not worried, I am one of the good ones. Ok, there is a knock at the door.....

[deuem]

Hi Thor, I know you all use Pidgin but it only has text. It is very slow compared to voice. text is like email and easy to mis-read. Email gets a lot of people in trouble when mis-read. I really like the audio and file sharring in skype. It allows us to get to know each better than text. Maybe another one is out there that does what Skype does but I have not found it yet. Today we have had over 100 calls with up to 4 or 5 online at once and never had a severe problem. Most of the time 1WW Wifi is cut off because he forgot to toss a buck in the coffer next door. Other than that I usually have the best Skype connection. Thats weird.

I don't know or care if big brother is on line, he can come and sit on my lap and help me type for all I care. They are going to do what ever they want to do and there is nothing I can do about it except turn off my phone, computer, car and tablet. Toss the Wifi out the window and live in a cave. we are talking about tech that can tap even hard line without cutting into them. Read you printer outputs from next door and so on. How does little old Deuem fight that?

.......I live in a world where I gotta live with it or turn it off.

Deuem On Windows XP

[1Worldwatcher]

Deuem Wrote:

Most of the time 1WW Wifi is cut off because he forgot to toss a buck in the coffer next door.

Ha ha ha ha Deuem!! I had to reply, thing's have changed since we were last on line together my friend. "God's WiFi" is a thing of the past, have my own place to milk the Internet now and connection stays full on. Yeah!! I thought that might make you happy for me!! LOL

Now, when and if you Skype me, it stays connected, and by the way, "Have you guy's been chatting via Skype without me then?" Ha ha ha !! Either way, thought I would let you know, "God no longer feels as if he/she is getting mugged for WiFi!!" Ha ha ha ha ... First time today I laughed so hard, thanks, so feel free to message me anytime buddy, now that you are back on line.

1WW