Scientology and The Golden Dawn

[zorgon]

I would suggest PM them and see if they respond... if not send an email

We need a few people to test the access

That may explain why we have seen little new posts from new members

I know many come just to lurk and read, but if you don't at least say HI and get past the first two posts with Capcha we don't know if you are actually getting access

[sky otter]

oh goodie a thread worth reading..

gotta go start at the beginning and collect some thoughts
for readin this stuff years ago...

[rose]

The Kitselman story, as it relates to Hubbard, Crowley, Max Freedom Long, and Krishnamurti:

Daughter Suzette says that Alva LaSalle (Beau) Kitselman threw Hubbard out of his house when Hubbard told him he was turning Dianetic therapy into a for-profit religion. The 1955 newsletter snip above seems to confirm that he had begun to turn his back on Hubbard, offering 'the secret' for a flat fee, vs. a continued Scientological milking under the guise of tithing. (I guess, however, that the membership card sender didn't get the memo.)

Kitselman spent a great deal of time in Hawaii after the war, which is probably where he first met Hubbard. Beau always had an interest in psychology, psi, and eastern religions and was known to be fluent in  ancient Sanskrit.  By 1956  Kitselman had been introduced to Max Freedom Long, who thought that Kitselman's e-therapy complimented his Huna system of human development. Long's journals seem to indicate that he and Kitselman were both faintly repelled by Hubbard's show.

(Disclaimer: i am not promoting e-therapy. I know nothing about  'e-therapy' other than it is similar to something that is today known as 'polarity therapy)

Kitselman was a fascinating, well-educated man, with curiosity and affluence enough to have been part of the early Esalen scene. He certainly would have known of Crowley's teachings, and perhaps, given his intelligence connections, known him through Crowleys work for British Intelligence.  I don't get the impression, however, that Kitselman was ever really much of a follower of anybody,  not even Krishnamurti, though he was known to call him "the world's only living Ten" (presumably on a spiritual/ethical scale).

Interesting man, on many accounts.
rose

[Pimander]

Rose

Have you come across anything that might have happened to him working with radar and/or radio that perhaps got Kitselman interested in Psi.  Or is it coincidental?

[rose]

Pimader, Kitselman wrote that he became interested while doing the coin flip experiment for a stats class. If I recall correctly, he began predicting the outcomes as a means of entertaining himself  and found that his success rate appeared to be greater than chance.  I suspect that he was probably the instigator of the mushroom-influenced psi-tests Z (I think) reported  in another thread.

I'm fairly certain that he worked on some esp related communications projects, and if and when someone takes on the writing of his biography, I hope they will be able to prove this. Right now it's just a supposition developed from backtracking a clue given in his resume.
rose

[Pimander]

Pimader, Kitselman wrote that he became interested while doing the coin flip experiment for a stats class. If I recall correctly, he began predicting the outcomes as a means of entertaining himself  and found that his success rate appeared to be greater than chance.  I suspect that he was probably the instigator of the mushroom-influenced psi-tests Z (I think) reported  in another thread.

I'm fairly certain that he worked on some esp related communications projects, and if and when someone takes on the writing of his biography, I hope they will be able to prove this. Right now it's just a supposition developed from backtracking a clue given in his resume.
rose

Well there is a guy who worked for SRI called Dean Radin,  http://noetic.org/directory/person/dean-radin/ he effectively took the coin tossing to a new level and did something called meta-analysis on the good psi tests throughout the literature and demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that psi is real (yes we already knew but to mainstream science).  Science has omitted that part from the text books thus far.

The Radin-SRI link brings us back to Remote Viewing.  I don't know why but we keep ending up there don't we. 

Interestingly, I think a lot of early remote viewers spent time in Hawaii.  Even Colonel John Alexander paid a visit I believe.  Was there already something happening in Hawaii I have completely overlooked?  If I missed something really obvious I will be a bit irritated with myself. 

Obviously, the whole "esp related communications projects" is a massive interest of mine.  Is there a link in your blog to his resume?  Go on, give me a clue....

[rose]

I hold a space in my head for the Hawaii backstory to develop. I know some irrelevant fragments, but I think there is something more there, but haven't enough evidence yet, to make even a speculative conjecture.

Here are the statements from the resume that got my attention, but truthfully, I have no idea what the first means.

By 1961 had developed a statistical method whereby "continuum transmission" may be added to the repertory of predictive methods; verified this in 1961-1963.

,,,,In 1961 prepared a report on para-prediction which led to Air Force Cambridge Research Laboratory
Project 4610, which appeared. in May of 1963.

The second however, is the only line in the whole vita which mentions as specific month of a specific year.  As I recall from my search experience, the first results were not the relevant ones, however the Google situation may have changed by now.

rose

[Pimander]

Thanks Rose.  This topic has been drifting so I'll PM you further thoughts.  I feel like we are having a private chat in public     

[Anthra]

While it is true that there are links for Jack and L. Ron to Crowley, they are more links to the O.T.O. Both Jack and L Ron were members, Crowley was "fearless leader" at the time.

There is an old story in Occult circles that  the whole thing was a bet between Parsons and Hubbard. Basically; that L Ron could "make up" a religion and "sell it" to the masses...he won.
Scientology is basically "Thelema" wrapped up for the O.T.O., watered down and repackaged again for public consumption. It was actually rather clever.

[Amaterasu]

In SciFi fandom the tidbit was floating around that LRon was at a convention with John W. Campbell Jr. and said to Him, "If I wanted to get rich, I'd start a religion."

The sources for that were reasonably credible...

[Pimander]

While it is true that there are links for Jack and L. Ron to Crowley, they are more links to the O.T.O. Both Jack and L Ron were members, Crowley was "fearless leader" at the time.

Your right the OTO is link is well known.  I posted this because I was asked about the golden Dawn and it is less well known that Hubbard's first newsletter was called "The Golden Dawn" or that his cross was a copy of the Golden Dawn one.  Also a lot of OTO symbolism is borrowed from GD.

[zorgon]

"If I wanted to get rich, I'd start a religion."

Well there ya go!!! That is the way we get rich

We shall create a Pegasus religion...   

We'll get some of those cool Ori staffs and have PWM's inventors group fit them with some awesome disruptor weapon

[zorgon]

"Katie asks him, "But didn't L. Ron Hubbard say that Zorgon came from a planet 10000 years ago and planted humans on Earth?"

http://bitchesonboats.blogspot.com/2005_11_01_archive.html

[Ellirium113]

Your right the OTO is link is well known.  I posted this because I was asked about the golden Dawn and it is less well known that Hubbard's first newsletter was called "The Golden Dawn" or that his cross was a copy of the Golden Dawn one.  Also a lot of OTO symbolism is borrowed from GD.

I think a lot of the secret societies were intertwined with each other on some level or other. Some members belonged to multilple secret societies at the same time.

Members of the Vril Society are said to have included Adolf Hitler, Alfred Rosenberg, Heinrich Himmler, Hermann Göring, and Hitler's personal physician, Dr. Theodor Morell. These were original members of the Thule Society which supposedly joined Vril in 1919. The NSDAP (NationalSozialistische Deutsche ArbeiterPartei) was created by Thule in 1920, one year later. Dr. Krohn, who helped to create the Nazi flag, was also a Thulist.

With Hitler in power in 1933, both Thule and Vril Gesellschafts allegedly received official state backing for continued disc development programs aimed at both spaceflight and possibly a war machine.

After 1941 Hitler forbade secret societies, so both Thule and Vril were documented under the SS E-IV unit.

The claim of an ability to travel in some inter-dimensional mode is similar to Vril claims of channeled flight with the Jenseitsflugmaschine (Other World Flight Machine) and the Vril Flugscheiben (Flight Discs).

This secret society has it's roots and inspirtion from a science fiction book!

Vril: The Power of the Coming Race (original title), also known as The Coming Race is a novel published in 1870 by Edward Bulwer-Lytton. Edward Bulwer-Lytton was a member of British Royalty.  He was involved in politics and became the Secretary of State for the Colonies. He was a poet, playwright and novelist who authored many books, the most popular being, "The Last Days of Pompeii". He also wrote Zanoni and the Coming Race. He was a member of the Hermatic order of the Golden Dawn. Most people associated with secret societies and occult lodges never took his work, The Coming Race as mere fiction. but truth veiled in a fictional story The novel is an early example of science fiction, sometimes cited as the first of this genre. The elements believed as truth was that a superior subterranean master race with the energy-form called Vril , and their claim to rise and conquer the surface race someday,was accurate, to the extent that some wealty and influential members Bulwer-Lytton who were theosophists accepted the book as truth and began to act upon their beliefs.

http://www.echoesofenoch.com/Musium13%20vril_society.htm