Sometimes Good Things Happen , Too

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

Well they should as long as there wasn't any violence involved in they're offenses.

[ArMaP]

Poor black people are commonly forced into pleas by prosecutors.  There may also be a presumption of dealing based on quantity.  So, some "dealers" may be innocent.

I'm sure that happens, but, if I'm not mistaken, we are talking about minimums of something like 80 grams for heroin, 400 grams for cocaine and 80 Kilograms of Marijuana, so I suppose those cases are not as common.

As for Portugal, I'm not sure what to believe as to decriminalization but the best info seems to suggest that it hasn't been a disaster so why waste fights about it?

In Portugal it was a success.
The levels of AIDS among drug users were reduced (that was the initial reason for thinking about changing the law), the numbers of drug addicts were reduced (one methadone centre in the street where I live was closed for lack of patients and I haven't seen someone with that typical look of drug addict, like those "helping" people parking their cars, in the last 5 years or more) and the crimes related to drug use were also reduced.

I don't understand the "why waste fights about it" part.

[spacemaverick]

I can only give my opinion from a law enforcement and corrections point of view.  I saw too many lives go bad regarding over indulgence in both legal and illegal drugs.  By going bad I mean tearing families apart because the affected person just had to have it (whatever it was) and would do anything to get it even at the expense of the family or friends.  I have seen different drugs do things to peoples bodies where they were nice looking people from a physical standpoint and it wreaked havoc on their bodies.  I have seen people over indulge in alcohol, weed, prescription drugs, hash, PCP, heroin, K2, bath salts, and the list goes on.  I can't see any good in making those things legal but I can't change it.  I do however see the benefits of cannabis, hemp oil for prescribed medical purposes.  We should let nature give us what we need to take care of our bodies instead of synthetic JUNK that man manufactures.  The earth gives us what we need.  People who want to abuse it will do so whether we like it or not.

I can only see the bad drugs have caused for the past 22 years and not the good.  Seen people killed in car accidents because they were under the influence of some substance that impaired their driving.  I seen people who were driving sober being hit and killed by someone under the influence of a substance be it drugs or alcohol.  The only good I can see is that which comes from cannabis for medicinal purposes only or drugs used to help people with surgeries and the pain that comes from that.  Seen too much of the bad side and how it has affected lives.  Thanks for listening you all.

[sky otter]

everything youi want except free....

[WarToad]

I can only give my opinion from a law enforcement and corrections point of view.  I saw too many lives go bad regarding over indulgence in both legal and illegal drugs. 

Same here from a medical point of view.  Broken bodies and minds, friendships and families.  Anyone who thinks alcohol/drugs are fun and without consiquence are absolutely delusional or ignorant.  I've reviewed medical records for 17 years now and it's always sad to see the downward spiral, all for what? 

[ArMaP]

Really, ArMaP?  You can't figure out where I was going there?  Really?

I like to be sure about how I spend my time.

I asked for the particulars - the details like what drug They chose, what constituted a ruining of the life...  In fact, define what a "ruined life" is.

In those two cases, the definition of "ruined life" is "death", as both died because of it.
In one case it was ecstasy, in the other (I think) heroine.

Yeah, so?  I was just pointing out that the whole "illegal drugs" thing is money/control driven.

As expected.

Huh?  What's that got to do with it - except that the lies left a lot of kids having no clue what They were getting into, seeing the lies of cannabis?

So, they didn't know what they were getting into because the MSM said it was bad? I don't understand that logic, maybe I am missing something.

Weirdly, though I read a dozen pages a few years ago pointing to the Congressional Record with those specific phrases shown, today I cannot find one page that discusses it.

Not that weird... 

But I did find some general history about the fact that race was used as a cover for financial interests to push the stamp act through.

http://www.drugwarrant.com/articles/why-is-marijuana-illegal/
http://gunnison.hubpages.com/hub/Marijuana-History-and-Racial-Bias

Not general, as it only applies to one drug.

The facts that cannabis causes loving behavior rather than brother killing brother, that rape is actually lett likely because it calms People down.

We are (or at least we weren't, until you appeared on the thread) not talking about cannabis, this is about the application of the legislation related to all drugs, not just one.

[Amaterasu]

So, they didn't know what they were getting into because the MSM said it was bad? I don't understand that logic, maybe I am missing something.

The "authorities" lie about cannabis.  The lie is seen.  Other drugs are reported on by the MSM.  The lies if any are unclear but knowing the lies about cannabis, One is left not knowing what They are getting into regardless of media claims.  "If They lied about cannabis, why wouldn't They lie about other drugs?"

Not that weird... 

It IS weird if One accepts that history should not change (in a perfect world which, I know, We are not living in).  Yet I cannot find history info now that was available 10 years ago.  If You think that is not "that" weird...perhaps You expect the 1984 rewriting of history to suit the power "elite?"

Not general, as it only applies to one drug.

I was - AS STATED - discussing the info around the stamp act that effectively made cannabis "illegal."  And the lies told about it that leave Us unsure of the facts about anything.

We are (or at least we weren't, until you appeared on the thread) not talking about cannabis, this is about the application of the legislation related to all drugs, not just one.

I'm not talking just cannabis either.  I was answering Your question which dealt specifically with cannabis.  To then come back and slap Me on the face because I responded to a question You asked about cannabis is disingenuous.

[spacemaverick]

I thought this thread was all about the legislation reducing drug sentences!  Well here's my thoughts on that particular subject.  Those that manufacture outside approved and legal manufacturing circles should not have sentences reduced.  The meth lab in a house, the mobile meth lab, the marijuana grower, the dealers...all should not have reduced sentences.  Dealers and manufacturers that I have come into contact with during my law enforcement career are not out to help people, they are out to make money.  I say reduce the sentences for the users and get them some help but the ones that deal and manufacture on the street...hang'em high on their sentences.

One of the issues about helping those who abuse legal drugs, illegal drugs are mental issues of dependency.  The next issue (like in my county and state) there are not enough rehabs to help all these users.  The next issue is that our representatives do not want to provide the money to fund such programs and last of all the abuser has to want to change their lifestyle to get out of the drugs.  They need a family support system that helps instead of indulging in the same lifestyle which I have seen numerous times.

Bottom line for me is to reduce the drug sentences for the users and abusers but to the devil with the illegal manufacturers and dealers.  Provide and fund help for those addicted.  (My opinion based on experiences)

[ArMaP]

The "authorities" lie about cannabis.  The lie is seen.  Other drugs are reported on by the MSM.  The lies if any are unclear but knowing the lies about cannabis, One is left not knowing what They are getting into regardless of media claims.  "If They lied about cannabis, why wouldn't They lie about other drugs?"

Then I suppose people advocating cannabis use are also responsible for not making things clear to those ignorant people that don't know what to do and decide to use drugs just because the bad results may be a lie.

It IS weird if One accepts that history should not change (in a perfect world which, I know, We are not living in).  Yet I cannot find history info now that was available 10 years ago.  If You think that is not "that" weird...perhaps You expect the 1984 rewriting of history to suit the power "elite?"

History doesn't change, what people say and think do.

I'm not talking just cannabis either.

Then stop talking about cannabis and be clear about you are talking about.

I was answering Your question which dealt specifically with cannabis.  To then come back and slap Me on the face because I responded to a question You asked about cannabis is disingenuous.

OK, could you point where did I make that question dealing specifically with cannabis before you said any thing about it?

Thanks in advance.

[ArMaP]

One of the issues about helping those who abuse legal drugs, illegal drugs are mental issues of dependency.

That was the basis used to treat the drug users in Portugal, they were considered as people needing help and they were given the chance of being helped.

The next issue (like in my county and state) there are not enough rehabs to help all these users.

In Portugal that was paid by the Social Security. The weight of that extra spending was negligible when compared with the whole Social Security spending.

The next issue is that our representatives do not want to provide the money to fund such programs and last of all the abuser has to want to change their lifestyle to get out of the drugs.  They need a family support system that helps instead of indulging in the same lifestyle which I have seen numerous times.

That's on funny thing about the situation in Portugal, many people, when they saw their friends getting help and returning to a normal (whatever that may be) life thought that they could do it too, and most did.

Wikipedia has an article about the drug policy of Portugal.

PS: if a worker is found to be a drug user then that is considered a health problem that should be treated by the doctor responsible for that company's work health, with the corresponding secret between patient and doctor. In Portugal, any health problem is not considered a legal reason to fire a worker.

[spacemaverick]

I wish things were different in my neck of the woods.  When I worked law enforcement I would always try to be encouraging to those I thought I could help and direct them to our meager resources.

[Eighthman]

I sometimes consider the inspiring words of an old Bob Dylan song: "I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now".  Indeed.  I simply think that as a society we are too obsessed with punishment and that we are only beginning to understand the subtle effects of that punitive attitude all around us.

I do hope that the good things I read about Portugal's drug policies are true.  There are dissenters who claim otherwise. My point is - if the outcome is mixed or ambiguous, then it isn't a disaster and the objectors have no argument to strongly oppose change.  If the outcome is truly good, then Godspeed.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if life would stop giving us baseball bats to solve problems rather than a needed scalpel? I have no love for illegal drugs or their effects but Freedom Isn't Free - and right now, hype of terrorism and drug abuse are doing far more damage to our liberty than the actual harm therefrom.

I see the showdown in Nevada and weakening enforcement of drug laws as important steps to obstruct an increasingly appalling Federal government.  With the power of the voting booth now castrated, what's left but crude measures (the baseball bats instead of precision)?

[Eighthman]

http://www.infowars.com/fbi-will-have-up-to-one-third-of-americans-on-biometric-database-by-next-year/

An addendum to my points above.  Day after day, week after week...... it just doesn't stop. There is no "repentance", no metanoia, no deviation from this obsession with expanding tyranny.

How does it end? How does it stop? 

[spacemaverick]

Very well said 8thman...very well said...that statement comes from the heart I perceive.  Gold for ya...

[burntheships]

Eightman,

Very good insights, well spoken.

It occured to me some time ago that
the prisons, the courts, the guards for both,
the fines, fees, the prisons and the cultures
inside....it all is its own "industry"