When Oberg Attacks

[easynow]

Apparently my NASA ufo clips have become a target because Oberg is attacking me and spamming all my space shuttle videos.

Here's one example ...

NASA UFO - STS 75 Close Up Examination


Jim Oberg
These weird-looking things turn out to be 'routine' because outer space is unearthly. I worked 22 years in Mission Control [including STS-48] and try to share what it's really like out there and what such videos are really showing -- sorry, not UFOs. See www.jamesoberg.com/ufo.html?


eeasynow
The truth is, the objects in this video have never been identified or where they came from (originated) and your trying to tell everyone it's just routine !! LOL

Seriously Jim, if your gonna keep spamming my videos with that link at least say something intelligent ; )



Jim Oberg
You afraid some of your target audience will catch on? Gotta protect their tender minds by deleting contrary arguments.


eeasynow
"Catch on" to what Jim ? The fact you can't (or won't)  identify what the objects really are OR where they originated ?? I think you just want to sweep all this under the rug without actually knowing what the real facts are and really it's you that's afraid. : P

Also FYI, I haven't deleted any of your comments or banned you. When you post links in the comments, sometimes youtube automatically puts them in the spam folder. Really Jim you should do some research about this before showing up on my video and make accusations about me that are false.


Jim Oberg
I'm the only guy in this conversation actually producing facts about these videos and possible prosaic explanations, drop over and check them out. What 'facts' do you think you know? Can you even tell if the sts48 scene was daytime or nighttime? Was the sun out, or not??


eeasynow
That's funny stuff Jim, You can't (or won't) identify the objects in this STS-75 video so you have to dodge the questions by changing the conversation to another subject. lol  FYI - those Jedi mind tricks might work on other people Jim but not me.

Also you might want to reconsider your viewpoints because "Producing possible explanations" without all the facts, makes you look foolish.

But thanks for the comment because you've confirmed my suspicions that discussing this topic with you is a waste of time. : P



Jim Oberg
Do you even know the simplest fact such as how LONG after the tether break this STS-75 video was made? A few minutes? An hour??


eeasynow
Jim your ignorance is astounding. That particular info was posted on my forum a long time ago and I am well aware of the times and dates. You might want to consider doing some research and educate yourself a little better before posting anymore comments to me and save yourself from any further embarrassement. ; )


Link -

Am I being too rough on the poor fella or no ??   


Here's another example:

UFO Caught on Camera by NASA * STS-80 mission

Jim Oberg
Astronaut Tom Jones was a crewman on STS-80 and at his home page he explains why the "UFO story" is nonsense: http://skywalking1.wordpress.com/2011/04/18/did-ufos-visit-sts-80-columbia/
And here Astronaut Tom Jones talks about STS-80 UFO


SpaceTimeForum
Jim your comment was marked as spam (not by me) but I approved it so your post can appear here ... however, I think "Tom" is talking about "the disc" and "UFOs over Africa" segments ... not this particular clip of  --> "The Sperm Object".  ALSO you keep neglecting to tell everyone (Why?) that none of the Astronauts were looking out the window or saw any of these objects with their own eyes and nobody (including you) can produce a video showing anything similiar, which apparently debunks the claims being made by Musgrave, Jones and You. Have a nice day ; )


Jim Oberg
Thanks, STF. The issue is whether these videos show objects that require an extraordinary causation, and since such motion is commonly observed from ordinary shuttle-shed stuff, which both crewmembers and flight controllers [like me] have seen repeatedly, the need for UFO theories dissolves. Space is really weird and unearthly, it does require familiarity so as not to misinterpret stuff in irrelevant and obsolete earthside terms. That's why I wrote my "99 FAQs".



Jim Oberg
06/13/2008 - MSNBC.com: Why NASA watches out for true UFOs
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/25147760/



SpaceTimeForum
Your welcome Jim and thanks for the comments but your claim "such motion is commonly observed" is still unproven. Those are the facts ; )



Jim Oberg
STF, have you ever talked with anybody who worked in Mission Control about this? My STS-48 1999 Purdue presentation includes several by-name veterans describing this stuff, and I have too. Why is that so hard to believe??



Link -

Questions:

What does this really mean when Oberg attacks like this ?

Is this an attempt to discredit my channel and the video evidence ?

Is he trying to get me to ban him from my channel so he has a talking point to use later on ?

I'm just trying to figure out what's up with this and now wondering what I should do if anything ? If this was you what would you do ?

Any comments, thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

[ArMaP]

I'm just trying to figure out what's up with this and now wondering what I should do if anything ? If this was you what would you do ?

Well, first of all, I think some of your responses to him are a little provocative and do not provide real facts, I think that with answers like that is easier for him not to respond as clearly as he should (and as he can, I have seen some clear answers from him, but they are not that frequent).

I think that's why, on the first example you provided, we can see that he is acting in a more aggressive way as in the second, because the answers he was getting were also more aggressive.

PS: this reminds me that I have to see if I can get more information about the video I think is really unexplained and for which he asked me if I had more information.

[The Seeker]

Easy, in my humble opinion Jim Oberg and Phage share the same underwear...
and both are on someone's payroll...
and need more fiber in their diet...


seeker

[zorgon]

Easy, in my humble opinion Jim Oberg and Phage share the same underwear...

No Phage is just a nasty old skeptic who likely looks like Scrooge He will be against everything and go silent when he has no answer. He did once say something nice to me when he came in to my Navy Space Command thread in an attempt to debunk me   He said in effect "Nice thread, Zorgon" and never bothered me again in that thread.

Perhaps ArMaP can find that post (Not sure if Russo copied that here

and both are on someone's payroll...

Jim Oberg has NEVER denied that he gets paid. He is after all the NBC go to guy when they need a debunker He is a self admitted  (though not fully proven) ex NASA employee and he sells books and papers debunking stuff.

Funny how skeptics attack UFO writers for making money but ignore it when the debunkers make money debunking the UFO writers

[zorgon]

I think that's why, on the first example you provided, we can see that he is acting in a more aggressive way as in the second, because the answers he was getting were also more aggressive.

Jim Oberg LOVES the fray... that is why he keeps coming back for more   Its the same thing as Stanton Friedman attacking Bob Lazar every time he speaks. Without Bob Lazar, Stanton has NOTHING  He has never seen a UFO and yet quit (didn't make it) as a Nuclear Scientist and took to making money on the UFO circuit.  He knocks Bob to keep his audience.. he NEEDS Bob.

In the same way Jim Oberg would fade into obscurity if there weren't people like us pushing the UFO's

Phil lait is another one... but he is an outright asshole. Still though he gave (couldn't make it) a career in astronomy to become a paid debunker... and Discovery picked him up. I can't stand his know it all smugness and turned off Diccovery

Jim Oberg on ATS

I have long suspected that Jim Oberg's account on ATS was used by other people. I have come to recognize Jim's writing style and as a writer he is careful about typos.  Yet on many posts I have seen totally diverent stles and many typos in some posts.  One stlye the posts were written like prose... short lines like poetry  That is NOT jim

Other times I made comments about previous convos we had and this "Jim' had no idea what I was talking about... so something is fishy.

The replies Easynow posted sound like the old Jim

No way to prove it but many others at ATS caught on to this. When you deal with someone for years you soon know when something is off

[zorgon]

Apparently my NASA ufo clips have become a target because Oberg is attacking me and spamming all my space shuttle videos.

Be thankful   He is giving you exposure. Play smart do not fall into a trap that makes you look the fool. Be aware that it is a game he is playing...

Say hi from Zorgon to him... in fact invite him over here if he can take the punishment ( I am sure he can)

Am I being too rough on the poor fella or no ??   

No but keep your cool... use joking tones... the viewers will sort it out. You are not going to change anyone's mind... but those that are new will better learn if you come across as being sure of your views

continued...

[zorgon]

Questions:

What does this really mean when Oberg attacks like this ?

1) That he has found someone else to play with that is his equal
2) That he REALLY wants to get asked the right question (see below)

Is this an attempt to discredit my channel and the video evidence ?

No because no believer will listen to a debunker  and no skeptic will change his mind based on your work. What it does do is keep yout videos alive as it were. If you want something to go away... stay out of it and let it fade away. By stepping into the fray  you keep the fire burning

Is he trying to get me to ban him from my channel so he has a talking point to use later on ?

No that would accomplish nothing other than to silence him. Who really visits his website?

I'm just trying to figure out what's up with this and now wondering what I should do if anything ? If this was you what would you do ?
Any comments, thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

Let me tell you a story... and maybe ArMaP can help find the posts

Back in the huge STS 75 New Look thread  Jim made a comment about his co workers thinking he was a closet UFO believer...  I challenged him on that  somewhere in that thread.

He replied directly to me... but not on THAt thread  it was another one and he said "You are not wrong about me Zorgon"

In the STS75 thread he also sent me a link to a file at NASA  It was on their NTRS server (NASA Technical Reports Server  data.nasa.gov

Now when I checked the link NASA had moved the file... in fact it took me several hours to trace where the file went to.

The file was a report from NASA addressing "Plasma phenomena that plaques NASA spaceships" The paper was dated in the late 50's (I will have to look in my files where I put it

Point is Jim Knows I believe the STS 75 and 80 "UFO's to be living plasma based CRITTERS that were feeding on the tether glow and the thunderstorn in STS80

So he send me a file from NASA on plasma phenomena?  Hmmmmm

As to the actual footage that NASA has NEVER released... he says they have it but we have to know the EXACT time date stamp
Since this information wasn't recorded by Martyn Stubbs when he intercepted them ( and NASA added that info once they recieved the signal. we have NO WAY of giving Jim the requires info

He KNOWS this... he counts on this.

What we need to do is find a NASA insider and use the POIA to find the original recordings IF they haven't lost them or erased them like they did the Apollo files

So invite him over... tell him we won't tear him to shreds

[zorgon]

[easynow]

Thanks everyone for the replys 

Need some time to think about all the specific points brought up and will reply later.

So invite him over... tell him we won't tear him to shreds

Done 

eeasynow
Jim if your up to the challenge this discussion has been posted over on the Pegasus forum. Here's the link - http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=6636.msg92437#msg92437

Zorgon said "invite him over... tell him we won't tear him to shreds"

Hope to see you there Jim. : )?

Link -

[The Seeker]

Amazing, isn't it, Z? I  want to add Beamish to the list; I actually got him to admit in a long thread over at spookz that he was a paid spin doctor...

I noticed the different styles posting a la Oberg...
also noticed Phage pop multiple posts in different threads with pics and links in a matter of only a moment or so; so i do have to wonder how many it took to accomplish it...


seeker

[A51Watcher]

easy -


Zorgon gave good advice.

Stick with debate points one by one and don't allow the debate to be pulled off track.

Respond to points raised one by one, and refuse to allow the debate to be pulled off tangent or out of order.


During my year or two on ATS, I took no prisoners and asked no quarter and left a trail of broken debunkers wherever I encountered them.

If you click on my nick over there you can read every post and thread I was ever involved in, and see my MO.


As an example, one thread I created, attracted a lot of rude debunkers claiming Venus as the culprit and myself as a liar.


Mexico City thread -

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread683213/pg1&mem=

Mexico City thread reboot -

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread694321/pg1&mem=



As you can see, I ended up using their own 'evidence' against them and gave them a lesson in manners as well.



So I say just discuss points raised in an orderly manner, and refuse to be pulled away from that order.

If they present six points,  debate each in order, and don't allow jumping around.


Your primary goal is to demonstrate to readers the reasonable logic of your points and the fallacy of your opponents.


I became bored with the never ending game of whack-a-mole over there so after we started Peggy I stopped visiting until Pimander alerted me there was a thread in the Area 51 section having a big laugh about what a fool Bob Lazar was for not videotaping the saucer tests he claimed to have witnessed. 

So of course I started a thread with his video in the OP.

Pim and I used that thread to good advantage demonstrating to readers the various methods used by debunker geriac to avoid and cloud the issues, and playing dumb to understanding questions when it was conveniant.


Since then I have seen nothing of interest to chime in on over there, and became bored with whack-a-mole long ago.

However it is good practice for sharpening your debate skills, as well as making sure your case is airtight.


Surprisingly, no debunkers dared ever set foot in my 'The Day Before Roswell' thread over there.

[JimO]

Eye-opening to 'see ourselves as others see us' and what imaginary speculations are sparked by such silly suppositions. I post to forums from several different keyboards and from time to time from widely scattered locations, I do realize that depending on screen size I type differently. To the best of my knowledge, nobody else has ever posted under my name on ATS.

I argue with conclusions and interpretations, I do my best not to 'attack' people, and solicit rebukes when I slip up, and I tend to avoid those thin-skinners who take offense at arguments of fact and interpretation as if their motives, intelligence, or sanity were being attacked. I find it particularly amusing to see whining about MY attacks when the all-too-common rhetoric is to accuse me of dishonesty and mercenary agenda-peddling.

That's why I don't play on fields that are pre-arranged with titles involving semantic gimmickry and terminology, like this one, and have therefore started a new thread with a neutral title for discussions here -- and by all means, start others with more specific topics under those same conditions. 

[easynow]

easy -
Zorgon gave good advice.

Yes I agree it's good advice and everyone's comments and thoughts are much appreciated. Believe it or not I have to go to work tomorrow morning and it's already past my bedtime so responding to everything posted tonight isn't possible but I will eventually return. Might be Monday+ before I have time.


I did notice Jim signed on and posted so that's certainly an interesting development indeed. 



Hey Jim, welcome and glad to see you decided to accept the invitation.

Only have time for a quick question ...

Would you agree some people might find it a bit strange that you have an article titled 99 FAQs with 4 or more entries incomplete ?? 

25 Q: How can ordinary people obtain videos from past missions?
A: TBS details


27Q TBD


70Q: What other special instruments have flown?
TBS


80 Q: tbs

Link - http://www.jamesoberg.com/99faq.html

[ArMaP]

also noticed Phage pop multiple posts in different threads with pics and links in a matter of only a moment or so; so i do have to wonder how many it took to accomplish it...

I said this on a different thread, about something completely different, but when you know exactly what to do things are done faster.

[ArMaP]

Would you agree some people might find it a bit strange that you have an article titled 99 FAQs with 4 or more entries incomplete ?? 

And two "24"s:

24 Q: Isn't there a duplicate Mission Control Center operating behind a wall of secrecy?
24 Q How can people monitor audio and video from space?

Two "41"s:

41 Q: What sorts of visible things are shed by a space vehicle?
41 Q: Was the space shuttle, or the Soyuz, really so rickety that pieces were always falling off? That sounds dangerous.

Two "70"s, including one of the incompletes:

70 Q: How did the years-long NASA study of lightning sprites contribute to the body of videos of 'space UFOs'?
70Q: What other special instruments have flown?

Considering all those, I think they are only 98 questions, but who's counting?