Jim Oberg's "99 FAQs About Space UFO Videos"

[ArMaP]

Just a point of interest I see you take this info from Quote;
Why do you write "According to" ...... Do you have some reservations ?

Just the same reservations I have when looking at official documents posted on non-official sources.

I don't have any reason to doubt the veracity of the documents, but I would prefer if Jim could point us to the official copies instead of copies in his site.

ArMap Is there anyway you/we can get our hands on an original copies of the flight logs or recordings ?

I hope we can, I'm still looking.

[ArMaP]

More information from one of those PDFs (this time the second one).







I don't understand why there are two vertical FOVs.

[The Matrix Traveller]

TMT

ArMap Is there anyway you/we can get our hands on an original copies of the flight logs or recordings ?

ArMap

I hope we can, I'm still looking.

That would be excellent if you can. You have my support in this venture.

1st hand records are closer to what was observed at the time than 2nd hand.

Just a human based thingy .... 

[deuem]

Side to side, top to bottom and "corner to corner"

I don't understand why there are two vertical FOVs.

This is the largest cross section of the frame. Closest to the actual round image the lens picked up.

So I take it you found part 2 that had the details. Ok this we can work with. I can set up new focal planes and slide them along the angles.

We all need to decide on an angle of the tether relative to the shuttle. At perpendicular it should be the full 12 miles and if rotated head on it would be a dot. So this is a guess until that data is here. It does change everything in the rest of the math.

As for looking through a blurred dot and looking through a solid ball of ice there will be a major difference. Someone needs to step up to the plate, stick their neck out and say how large they are. Until then I will continue to use the 1 inch size I talked about. So unless I get a size, please don't shoot the Math down. We have the 2 most important sizes as variables. But as I said before. The smaller the crystals the closer they should be.

What about the ruler test. I read nothing?

[deuem]

The red was the LED of my PocketPC, held close to the camera.
You're right, the red was close to the camera, the string in the back, illuminated with a flash-light.

I will try to find the video from where I took this image.

Very interesting ArMaP, The fact that my super duper Deuem program did what it was designed to do. You just blind tested me again for the millionth time and you still have a hard time when it shows the correct answer. This was your test and you say I passed. Do I get a door prize?

For the time being I will leave the Deuem program at the door and enter this contest with my ruler and calculator. That way there is nobody saying I am crazy or insane. Like I said, we need to fight this one on the blackboard. Go sharpen you chalk. I'm waiting. We will only get into the behaviour of light gradients if we have to. Lets see how far we can go on the board.

[The Matrix Traveller]

More information from one of those PDFs (this time the second one).







I don't understand why there are two vertical FOVs.

I note the Monochrome and Colour Focus 2.5 feet Into Infinity 

[JimO]

I was hoping this might be a grown-up site where criticism of opinions didn't spark whines of personal "attacks". Is that a standard we all should strive for?

[deuem]

Ok, lets go back to the chalkboard then.
Did any one run the Math on the tether width?

I ran it several times and got the same answer. Very wide!

[ArMaP]

Side to side, top to bottom and "corner to corner"

You're right, I didn't think of that.

As for looking through a blurred dot and looking through a solid ball of ice there will be a major difference.

What's the difference between a solid ball of ice and a solid ball of metal?

So unless I get a size, please don't shoot the Math down.

I won't, but don't shoot the facts down either, an out of focus object appears as translucent, regardless of the material it is made from.

We have the 2 most important sizes as variables. But as I said before. The smaller the crystals the closer they should be.

I think I read something about it some time ago (maybe two years), I will try to find it again.

[deuem]

You're right, I didn't think of that.   A simple oops! The paper should have read diagonal.

What's the difference between a solid ball of ice and a solid ball of metal?
One is in this video, the other is not!

I won't, but don't shoot the facts down either, an out of focus object appears as translucent, regardless of the material it is made from.  I don't know about that ArMaP, I can video tape my wall in front of me for days out of focus and never see through it. Glass yes, Thin ice, Nylons, thin paper and others yes but not everything.

I think I read something about it some time ago (maybe two years), I will try to find it again.
Looking forward to it.  Did you do the ruler test for tether thickness. It is rather simple to do..

If water splashed on the lens and froze flat I can see looking through it. If you watch the video there are about 6 objects that never move regardless of camera movement. I will suggest that these are frozen to the lens and most likely flat splats of water frozen when they hit the lens. Any vid with these 6 splats should be the same camera until they melted off. Maybe even leaving a water spot that we can find later.

[JimO]

If water splashed on the lens and froze flat I can see looking through it. If you watch the video there are about 6 objects that never move regardless of camera movement. I will suggest that these are frozen to the lens and most likely flat splats of water frozen when they hit the lens. Any vid with these 6 splats should be the same camera until they melted off. Maybe even leaving a water spot that we can find later.

Interesting, and helpful. The Scene List specifies this camera C, I recall. So scan up/down that page for other occurrences of the same. And since we obtained the entire video downlink for that hour, the scenes ought to be available. Please report back -- this is a good suggestion.

[ArMaP]

One is in this video, the other is not!

If that's the only difference, then I agree.

I don't know about that ArMaP, I can video tape my wall in front of me for days out of focus and never see through it.

There's no wall on the video, why do you talk about something so completely different from what we are talking about?

Did you do the ruler test for tether thickness.

No, no need to.

[deuem]

What's the difference between a solid ball of ice and a solid ball of metal?
I won't, but don't shoot the facts down either, an out of focus object appears as translucent, regardless of the material it is made from.

Maybe I should try this again.

On the Ice/Metal  The Ice if it is formed perfectly should scatter light while the steel ball should block it. With the ice it all depends on how clear the balls might form, crystal clear or like white snow balls. I don't know yet. Ice may have many cracks it it where a steel ball like a bearing would/should have none. Steel should weigh more. It is very dense.

If you take a balloon and blow it up to max you can barely see through it, A basketball no matter how you focus the lens will never be translucent. It will just be an out of focus ball just like the steel ball. Depending on the distance it may get real small and real blurred but never translucent. Other than that I have no idea why you want to compare an ice ball to a steel ball. There are no steel balls in any of the photos. Unless you are suggesting that there are?

Very clear Ice is not easy to make on Earth. Most ice is cloudy because of the temp it is made in. Maybe in Space when it boils and freezes instantly it might be clear. Yet if it were clear it would be very difficult to see. So I am still not sure of the exact color of what they see. Clear, white or yellow. Or maybe all 3.

We also need to know if the curved lens on the camera is exposed to space or it has a flat protective lens over it. Like it is in a box. With the camera having a 2.5 minimun focal distance, anything within that distance will be a blur. Although you might think you see straight through them in reality the light that goes through them is being altered, scattered or diffused. It is not getting to the camera 100%. You can shoot through just about any translucent material to get a different feel. Once the material goes solid it will block the light on the other side and if small enough will cause a bright light to scatter around it. Light will not penetrate a steel ball no matter how hard you focus. Only Superman can do that and he is a fictional person.

If you were to put a coin in front of you and spin it it would go flat then round. I see no flat on edge objects in the videos. Neither critters or ice. With the exception of what might be on the lens then I would think that every thing is either flat to the camera or a ball. And looking through a ball of even clear ice should warp the view of what is behind it. Like a curved lens. If the Critters are large Round creatures then they must all fly flat to the sun to keep warm or feed. Many creatures on Earth do this to keep warm. If they use light for power then they would be like floating solar panels.

[JimO]

....If you were to put a coin in front of you and spin it it would go flat then round. I see no flat on edge objects in the videos. Neither critters or ice. With the exception of what might be on the lens then I would think that every thing is either flat to the camera or a ball. And looking through a ball of even clear ice should warp the view of what is behind it. Like a curved lens. If the Critters are large Round creatures then they must all fly flat to the sun to keep warm or feed. Many creatures on Earth do this to keep warm. If they use light for power then they would be like floating solar panels.

Another good reason to determine the shuttle, camera, and Sun's angles in this video. I'm working on that. Why didn't anyone seem to think it was important before?

The tilt angle of the tether to the LOS is also important, I agree. This acknowledges the subtle sense of depth in the 2D screen, an important and often overlooked factor in assessing such images. Good point, D.

[deuem]

Jim, with everything moving at such high speeds and them over taking the tether I would like to use a very good standard frame to start with where the tether is in full frame and NASA calls out the distance. In the close ups afterwards we lose the tail and sizing and the length becomes impossible to measure. If you wish to pick a point, please let us know. I would prefer no zoom. Just a nice full frame shot with a known distance.

I don't have part b for the camera yet so did the C camera have the B&W lens or the color one. They seem to paint or make the shuttle in B&W so unless I see a crew member or some color it is hard to figure out. But since they have two rather different lenses on them all work done off a frame would change by 50% or so. I know I have the vids but they are pretty messed up and I want to get it right 100%. With today's tech one can make anything almost anything. There is even a green one on line. So we need to nail this one down with spikes. C Camera with ? Lens. Thank you.