LIVE from Ferguson, MO...Police Firing on Protestors, Media...Please share!

[petrus4]

Self defense MY ARSE.

Defending one's self includes BUSTIN SOME KNEE CAPS - NOT BLOWIN SOME BRAINS.

Do you know about the orbital blowout fracture that the cop took before he fired, Sinny?  It's a very serious injury.  That didn't come from nowhere.

Again, I'm not trying to say that one side or the other are exclusively innocent or guilty; but there is more than meets the eye, here.

[Sinny]

When you sign up for the police, it's like sgning up for the army - there is risk involved, and they accept that risk of harm at the point of making their oath.

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

Ah yes....I'm going to let a 300lb 6'-4" man beat the crap outta me and try and fail to take my weapon..(all felonies btw & easily grounds for shooting)...and then charge me again to do bodily harm to me...lets see.... ...ok,,,,I'm channeling my best Steven Segal personna and just like in the movies, I render the attacker with my matrix like moves and slow mo strikes, harmless and helpless......

I've had to defend myself before, had guns stuck in my face...told I was going to be killed if i moved....been shot at....all NOT fun....it's a different situation in real life.

Unless your on a forum, yapping about 'murder'....

Said my piece...back to work.....


Rock.....

[Sinny]

I'll try to make sense of your incoherant post..

And reiterate my initial points of:

1) Police signed up for a potentially dangerous job. Danger and possible harm are to be expected.
2) You can shoot to wound rather than kill.
3) Brown was murdered either way you look at it.

[ArMaP]

When you sign up for the police, it's like sgning up for the army - there is risk involved, and they accept that risk of harm at the point of making their oath.

When you decided to go against the law you should also know that there are risks involved.

[Sinny]

Said like a true dictator ArMap.

[VillageIdiot]

When you decided to go against the law you should also know that there are risks involved.

G O L D

[Sinny]

A huge Facepalm - on behalf of the civilised world.

[VillageIdiot]

A huge Facepalm - on behalf of the civilised world.

The civilized world recognizes laws are necessary to maintain order and follows them.

[spacemaverick]

Please let me chime in here.  Having the background in law enforcement...please look at the training we go through.  I also included my opinion from a professional standpoint.  All of us who are serving or have served basically go through the same training and laws.  I put my opinion on the other Ferguson thread here:

http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=7173.105

I actually go through the totality of the circumstances and apply the training that we all have received.  This training is a continual training so that an officer can keep their skills honed so they can survive.  I am not the ever loving end as an expert but have been through both law enforcement and corrections training.  The first thing that happens because of continual training is that the officers respond how they have been trained.  That is one of the keys to this situation.  My son who was a police officer and now a police contractor / adviser overseas...have sat down and discussed this and both of us agree.  A key factor here is "response to training."

And let me throw this in...in my community we have spots where the criminals (a smaller element than the population) control the area with better weapons than the officers have in their possession.  (this is changing).  I now work armed security since retiring from the sheriff's department.  Not much difference between where I live and Ferguson.

Take the race card out of it and what do you have?  Two tragedies is what is there.  Mr. Brown which is a product of a new generation and the influences from his neighborhood who is now deceased.  Tragedy for his family.  And the police officer who had to take a life and now his life and that of his family will never be the same.  He responded to the situation how he was trained.

For those who do not understand...take a ride along with one of your locals and find out what dangers they encounter on a daily basis wondering if they will go home tonight.  There are bad apples in the police departments because people are not perfect and some get past the hiring process.  Before I even put on the uniform I had to go through polygraph, psychological evaluation, general knowledge tests, law enforcement academy, corrections academy and then take state exams on what I had learned.  Then you receive training in the field through 3 or 4 phases having to pass each phase before moving on to the next phase.  Anywhere along the line you can be washed out.  Then that is followed by 1 year of probation where you can actually be fired at anytime if you do not measure up to standards.

Please go to the above link I have provided to see my opinion based on my training, education and experience...might help you to understand better.  Also maybe this thread and that thread could be merged (IMHO) because the information in both seems to run along the same lines.  Thank you.

[Ellirium113]

What ever happened to non-lethal force? Where are the tasers? traded in for 9mm & AR-15s? We see lots of people tased into compliance...Don't the police also have night-stick/tonfa weapons? There were other means at there disposal to deal with this. 6 rounds to an unarmed man is unproportional even if a cop was assailed in the arrest. Had the victim gone for the officer's gun then it might have been considered an attempted murder and prompted more lethal action. Inexperience could have been a big factor.

[Sinny]

The civilized world recognizes laws are necessary to maintain order and follows them.

You can't legislate morality.

Laws aren't the way forward, education and empathy ... And all those kinds of things are.

[petrus4]

You can't legislate morality.

Law aren't the way forward, education and empathy are.

The desired end goal is self-management; and education and empathy are certainly tools to that effect.  Law, however, sadly can be necessary as a transitional measure.  The reason why Law appears worthless at the moment, is because it has been made so by overextension, and thus dilution.  Law's effectiveness is inverse to its' quantity.

Hence, I will say to Spacemaverick that my desire is not for a complete absence of order; but rather, for a considerable lessening of the amount of order that we have now, in some respects.  If we have but few rules, then it is easier for the public to know that, because said rules are the only ones, then their very rarity is a measure of their degree of necessity.  Obedience of them is therefore considerably more reliable, than our current scenario.

If we have so many laws that men and women are lawbreakers almost merely by breathing, then how can they be blamed for seeking anarchy?  If, on the other hand, we have the minimal number required to truly preserve society and the species, then if that handful are violated, the violator will have no excuse.

I do not believe that Michael Brown should be given immunity to have injured the police officer in question in this case.  My desired scenario is one in which the Law is the same for both police and civilians; and if we were to have such a scenario, harm done to a police officer, is no less a crime than harm done to a civilian.  To argue for Michael Brown's assault of this officer, if it was genuine, while holding resentment towards the police for their brutalisation of him and others, is to commit a miscarriage of justice.

As for the one, so for the other.  This is the definition of justice.

[Amaterasu]

This is why I advocate the three Laws of Ethics.  All "laws" (bills, codes, mandates, rules, regulations, declarations, etc.) address either issues connected to the three Laws, or are for commercial purposes:  like creating revenue, or defining the field of commerce.

Without the need to account for Our energy input into the system, all "laws" relating to commerce become moot, and the three Laws cover the rest.  Given that We now have the tools to end the need for money, I think three Laws - which anyOne can sit as judge or jury on if need be - are plenty when We finally move to free Humanity from this system of enslavement.

[ArMaP]

Said like a true dictator ArMap.

A dictator would say something like "those I don't like should know that they are taking a risk".

When someone lives in a society they are accepting the rules of that society, unless they are hypocrites and only want a society when it suits them while ignoring it when it's their time to give something back.