Thoughts About Teaching Children

[Amaterasu]

As I said, in this narrow "education" They teach, theories are taught as "truth."  And I too have learned vastly more in My exploration sessions on the web than I ever did in school. 

[rdunk]

I left school... 7 years ago now.

And in hindsight.... What a pile of crap.

I owe public school system nothing past the point of basic English,  Math, and Science.

Since I've left school my education has excelled 1000% since being self-tutored.

If they wanted to teach me anything useful, they should have taught me about the slave system I was born into and how best to prepare one's self for dealing with this psychotic world.

Teaching me from the age of 4 the pyramids were built with ramps

Pshhht.

Sinny, I am sorry for your having had that kind of schooling experience. My 12 years of public school experience was completely opposite of what you relate - I wonder why?? Of course, for every individual at every age, circumstances of life are different, with some for the good, and some for the not so good. My high school years were some of the best times of my life, and with them I learned so much about real friends, and about life with others, in addition to what my teachers were trying to get across to me . I would not trade those years for anything, earthly!

Certainly the early school years are simply preparatory for our adult learning, which you Sinny are not so far into yet.

[Sinny]

"I wonder why"

Where were you taught Rdunk, and what sort of subjects were on your curriculum?

Mine was basic English & Math up to the age of 11, which I excelled at.

From 12 onwards, English consisted of 1 year poetry (Blake and Wordsworth, which left me absolutely suicidal), one year Macbeth (yes a whole year), a whole year on to 'To Kill a Mockingbird)... And a whole year of exclusion from class for challenging my teachers lack of teaching in final year aha.
(You can fill any gaps in with generic English crap).

Math, took us through the usual motions of crap I'll never use.

Science was the only subject I sort-of enjoyed, as our Science Teacher (only in final year mind you), was one of few teachers who could teach her subject without constantly referring to their own teaching handbook.

Art I enjoyed, only because the first 4 years we were left to our own devices and got into all sorts of mischief, in final year, I worked on some brilliant Tiger paintings and got myself topmarks.

Electronics was interesting to me, but resources only allowed for one year of this *rollseyes*.

Woodwork, I also excelled at, but only because my grandad had been teaching me since forever.

In religious studies (which was somehow mandatory), they spent 5 years educating us about the Muslim faith, and took us on several trips to Mosques.. Not once was the Bible ever produced, nor was any other religion for that matter.

Geography was reasonable, although I specifically had to opt into that subject.

French was mandatory for a few years.
I hate French, and sucked at it.

What else...

I cooked a vegetable soup the once.

We had a subject called 'humanities' ... Which to this day, I'm still not sure what the purpose was.

In 6 months, they touched upon the 'definition' of law.
Nothing else comes to mind.

I sucked at music, but only because the teacher, singular, was more taken with the kids who thought they could sing, and the guys already doing music out side of school.

PE once a week, which I turned into 4 times a week being on the football and rowing teams.

That about covers the whole of my 12 years state education.

It's lucky I found the internet isn't it?

Aha.

[zorgon]

As I said, in this narrow "education" They teach, theories are taught as "truth."  And I too have learned vastly more in My exploration sessions on the web than I ever did in school.

And have you put that knowledge to good use?



Back in Toronto our schooling wasn't too bad. Sure they taught the basic lies like the ramps to build the Pyramids but that is because the 'expert' archaeologists truly still believe that



Yes we were also forced to learn French. I was pretty good at it (because it is very similar to German) but when I went to Quebec to use it  seems the Québécois (especially in Montreal) are assholes about it (Long Story)

But when it got to Highschool that was when things got good. I was a whiz in math and science.  At the time Computers were just coming out so I qualified for the new computer science course (you had to lose one class in amath and one in science to take it) Programming was done on punch cards.  In Chemistry we had a teacher that was an Einstein (same hair too LOL)  We had art and shop classes (auto, machine shop, metal work)  So all in all it was an awesome time...

Seems it depends a lot on what teachers you get  more than the system  and it also depends what YOU take out of it... Do you spend your spare time in the library or seeing the teacher after class for additional material? or do you spend your spare time smoking pot? (yeah we had many of those back then... after all it was the Hippy Era when I was in school)

Odd thing about them Hippies... they would preach "Do your own thing!"  yet if YOUR thing was not their thing, you were brainwashed 

Tweety had it right ... bunch of hippotwits      and always giggling at everything in class

[Pimander]

Bloody hell Z?  Showing your age there.  Punch cards. I was a little kid then.  

[zorgon]

Bloody hell Z?  Showing your age there.  Punch cards. I was a little kid then.  

Yup I am an old fossil one foot in the grave Programming language at the time   I was using the upgraded Waterloo Fortran VI  Had a friend at Waterloo University that would run my stuff for me so I got my results faster than the rest of the class

Point is its not only up to the sytem if you get an education...  you need to want it too   

[Amaterasu]

And have you put that knowledge to good use?

By My definition of "good use," absolutely.  By Yours, unknown, as I have no idea what Your definition is.

EDIT to add...  Where does One get the idea that "smoking pot" precludes doing anything else?  Geez, what propagandist tripe.  In fact, the greater part of My insight has come whilst medicated and relaxed.  And the larger part of My writing, too.

[Pimander]

Point is its not only up to the sytem if you get an education...  you need to want it too   

I was extremely lucky Z.  MY Dad influenced me before my parents separated.  We used to talk about science all the time and he gave me his Nature and Science 20 volume encyclopedia the day he moved out.  I used to sit and read about Space, Dinosaurs and stuff for hours.

None of my brothers and sisters had the same ambition to go to Uni (two of my little sisters shared the same Dad but being younger didn't have the same time with Dad).  I was taught at age ten by a former Geophysicist (he decided to teach children) and decided I wanted to be a scientist from that point.  He taught me sub-atomic physics earlier than most kids learn it.  Luckily for me, I left 6th form (at 18) when you still got free tuition fees when you were accepted for Uni.  I was offered places at 9 Universities but chose Manchester.  I didn't mention my Dad on the forms and got a small grant and loan.

I am eternally grateful to the government in the UK for allowing poorer children to study back then.  These days it is a lot harder.  I do admit to running out of money and breaking the law to complete the course (I had to eat).  Yes, it is true I was lucky but nothing came to me on a plate.  I had to battle to get there.

Anyone with kids thinking of studying in the UK should consider Manchester.  Great night life, great culture and great Uni, especially for Egyptology, Medicine or Bio-medical sciences.  I think they are strong on Physics (Rutherford split the atom as a Manchester academic).  It is also cheaper to live there than London or Oxford/Cambridge.

[Sgt.Rocknroll]

I might upset some here, but that is not my intention. Just relaying my experiences growing up in the 50's, 60's...

My Dad worked in the oil field, mostly hard labor...he quit school to join the Army in WWII...but he wasn't stupid...He grew up on a farm in south
Louisiana....
My Mom was a strict Irish Catholic girl and she passed that on to her children.

I went from the 1st grade to the 10th at a Christian Brothers all boys school...total in my class approx. 60...so very small...

It was strict and hard but every parent would want their sons to attend. Reasons?

Discipline, Catholic religious education, sciences, math, we didn't have 'social science' as they do today. We had Government/Civics.

(sidenote) As early as I can remember, I had a fascination with Comic Books and Superheros....those were the 'golden/silver age years'...I learned a lot about space and science fiction from reading those stories....

anyway the original point is what's lacking today is the first one on my list...'Discipline'...
Kids are taught more to 'how to get along' in today's society/what people think about them/not hurting someones' feelings..etc..than being a tough individual......

sorry for the diatribe or whatever....just my thoughts...

[Pimander]

anyway the original point is what's lacking today is the first one on my list...'Discipline'...
Kids are taught more to 'how to get along' in today's society/what people think about them/not hurting someones' feelings..etc..than being a tough individual.....

I used to disagree with you.  Since I worked in education I changed my mind.  There is no point standing in front of 25 kids who will not cooperate with a teacher.  You have to have a level of discipline if you are teaching more than a handful of kids.

Why did I decide to leave education after only a couple of years?  Lack of the tools to keep discipline.  The teaching profession loses a lot of talented teachers every year for the same reason.  It's far easier to work in a lab or run your own business.  I should know.

Looking back at my schooling, most of us would have done very little work in certain classes if we were given the option.

[onetruekeeper]

Most kids in school are not there by choice or consent. Most do NOT want to be taught anything and just want to be left alone although they are under severe pressure from their parents and society to get a "education" to get ahead in life.
Only those kids that show genuine interest and sincerity in wanting to learn what you have to teach should be considered as your students. The rest of them are not worth your time and patience. They are better off teaching themselves at the public library at their own pace and ability to learn.

[Amaterasu]

Most kids in school are not there by choice or consent. Most do NOT want to be taught anything and just want to be left alone although they are under severe pressure from their parents and society to get a "education" to get ahead in life.
Only those kids that show genuine interest and sincerity in wanting to learn what you have to teach should be considered as your students. The rest of them are not worth your time and patience. They are better off teaching themselves at the public library at their own pace and ability to learn.

That is My whole point.  We should be allowing Our children to Self-direct the path of Their learning based on interest.  The whole rigid, "this is what You MUST learn" creppola does not educate.  I memorized a slough of historical dates the night before a test (passed it), but do I remember ANY of it?  Nope.  Time wasted.

But with the web, I have had the chance to follow what I am interested in, and on some subjects I am vastly more educated than most.  Sure, other subjects I cannot hold a candle to Those who are interested in them.  I am not interested and therefore have not pursued the info.  Should I find need of that info, should I become interested, THEN I WILL educate Myself.

But to say that Some should be educated and not Others is absurd.  We are born wanting to learn, but to force a path of "learning" does more damage than it benefits, with many struggling against a deep lack of interest in one area or another and concluding school sucks and learning has no value.

And surely knowing what date George SomeOne did some thing has no value to anyOne but Those fascinated with such info.

[ArMaP]

I memorized a slough of historical dates the night before a test (passed it), but do I remember ANY of it?  Nope.  Time wasted.

That depends, if the goal was to pass the exam then it wasn't wasted time.

I once had an exam for which I was supposed to have read a book, so I picked it up the day before the exam (I never studied at night) I read the beginning of one chapter in the middle of the book, and that's what appeared on the exam.

But with the web, I have had the chance to follow what I am interested in, and on some subjects I am vastly more educated than most.  Sure, other subjects I cannot hold a candle to Those who are interested in them.  I am not interested and therefore have not pursued the info.  Should I find need of that info, should I become interested, THEN I WILL educate Myself.

But should a child that doesn't have enough information be the one responsible for choosing what to study? I don't think that's a good idea.

We are born wanting to learn, but to force a path of "learning" does more damage than it benefits, with many struggling against a deep lack of interest in one area or another and concluding school sucks and learning has no value.

I think school should teach how to study and the importance of studying and learning, not force information on the children's heads. For example, I have seen many boys without any interest in mathematics but interested in playing games. If the teachers told them (and show them) that math is the basis for almost any computer game maybe some would start to study math with the idea of creating their own games.

And surely knowing what date George SomeOne did some thing has no value to anyOne but Those fascinated with such info.

Knowing those dates should be considered just as a way of locating things in time, to get an idea of when things happened in relation to other events, like knowing which was first, the French Revolution or the US independence.

[Pimander]

Amy, have you heard of Steiner Schools?  They share some of your ideas.

[Amaterasu]

That depends, if the goal was to pass the exam then it wasn't wasted time.

Passing exams is NOT education. 

But should a child that doesn't have enough information be the one responsible for choosing what to study? I don't think that's a good idea.

Lest You missed it...  I suggest GUIDING children with suggestions - and I include a strong focus on the basics to get Them started.  And with the web, They will encounter stuff that piques Their curiosity to branch out.  But telling a child (S)He is not educated because (S)He did not cram for a test and pass it is utter nonsense.

I think school should teach how to study and the importance of studying and learning, not force information on the children's heads. For example, I have seen many boys without any interest in mathematics but interested in playing games. If the teachers told them (and show them) that math is the basis for almost any computer game maybe some would start to study math with the idea of creating their own games.

I think that guiding children to find what most interests Them will lessen the likelihood that They will slough off study in favor of games (study will become the game), will open Them up to Their innate desire to learn (rather than closing Them off to it), and of "importance...?"  What "importance" is there if there is no need to add One's meaningful energy to collect a few tokens to be used to survive?  The child defines the "importance."

Knowing those dates should be considered just as a way of locating things in time, to get an idea of when things happened in relation to other events, like knowing which was first, the French Revolution or the US independence.

And that's fine if One needs to have that info - which, if One needs it, is readily available on the web.