Lochness Socialism?

[petrus4]

sounds like a good idea, all except the low population thing, because that part, smacks of genocide on such a massive scale that it'd make all prior atrocities pale by comparison.

What I said, was low population per geopolitical entity.  That does not necessarily mean a low overall population, at all.  It simply means that we might end up with a few thousand or million nation states, is all.

[undo11]

What I said, was low population per geopolitical entity.  That does not necessarily mean a low overall population, at all.  It simply means that we might end up with a few thousand or million nation states, is all.

oh novel idea.  tell me more

[undo11]

Look at the missing TRILLIONS annually, look at the TRILLIONS in black ops spending. Do any of you REALLY believe that all that money (on top of the day to day running of the government) comes from 120 million or so taxpayers?

yep i keep saying, the plight of the poor could've been fixed decades ago in this country, but the system takes a bunch off the top, to keep the poor artificially poor, not because it benefits them financially (in other words, not as a result concern for competition) but because the final prize is world domination and you need a nice, pissed off, impoverished under class to aim at your targets, who have been indoctrinated in schools, books, movies, music, and in the press, to believe that it's all the fault of the only people who are actually helping (the average american).

[undo11]

So  on the one hand  it is argued that the Elite want to eliminate 90% of the population...

but then on the other hand the banks need every single useless eater to produce tax revenue

Doesn't add up in my math book

no the taxes aren't because they need money. 

[undo11]

p.s.  i have no idea why you would call the taxpayers, useless eaters.

[Pimander]

@ Pimander,

That is an interesting snippet there. I'll go ahead and toss in my opinion on that;
IMO inheritance taxes should be abolished. Tax has already been paid on the wealth in one form or another, often times several times over.

I agree that taxation is far to complicated (its even worse in the UK) and I'm not sure how but I'd look to simplify the tax system.

There are a number of ways but I am definitely in favour of a simplified (possibly tax on Capital or income only) tax system that is progressive not regressive.  The only way to tax fairly is to shift the burden most heavily onto the wealthiest with the poor paying very little.  Possibly only businesses should pay tax and not citizens as only businesses take wealth from citizens (the government is also a business).

Wealth needs redistributing.  It is unfair currently and the current system is indefensible on moral grounds.

[petrus4]

oh novel idea.  tell me more

It would essentially be identical to the tribal holdings of indigenous groups.  Although the Aborigines here in Australia were nomadic, each tribe had its' designated territory.  I'm pretty sure some of the early white settlers even drew a map with them once.

[undo11]

It would essentially be identical to the tribal holdings of indigenous groups.  Although the Aborigines here in Australia were nomadic, each tribe had its' designated territory.  I'm pretty sure some of the early white settlers even drew a map with them once.

that was essentially the usa pre-civil war.

[petrus4]

that was essentially the usa pre-civil war.

Exactly.  The conspiracy that Marx gave his service to, goes back much further than you might think.  The Civil War was fought primarily to secure tax money for the bankers.

As this will hopefully prove, I am not a Communist.  While, again, I do believe in provisional post-scarcity, the means of producing such can and should remain in individual hands.  It does not and should not need to be held by a central government.

You should also know, that this was also the intention of many, many people who were deceived by the Bolsheviki in Russia, and murdered at Kronstadt, among other places. 

The original name of Soviet Russia was, in full, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.  This means that each one of said soviets were initially intended to be autonomous.  It turned out to be a lie, of course; just as it is a lie in the "People's Republic of China."

The point is that in the case of Russia at least, many of the people wanted and initially believed that they were building what I am advocating here, and what that video advocated; but were given a mass-murdering statist nightmare instead.

There was a betrayal; the proverbial strawman argument.  There were two different ideologies, there; a potentially legitimate one, and Marxism.  The supposed failure of Marxism as a strawman, was used to discredit what came to be called Anarchism as well. 

They did the same thing to Christianity.  The Essenes were the genuine article; Pauline theology the strawman.  Pauline theology has now been demonstrated as laughably false and contradictory; but tragically, it has smothered Essene theology and largely left it in the rubbish bin of history.

It again has also been done with open source UNIX operating systems.  Richard Stallman and GNU/Linux is the false strawman; the BSDs and their licenses are the truth.  Linux is now deteriorating and being destroyed, and the BSDs will potentially go down with them.

The enemy is federalism.  It always has been.  Franklin and his contemporaries initially wrote the Articles of Confederation, and then later the Constitution.  I don't believe that any governmental connections can be permitted between individual territories, because it will always lead back to federalism; but the AoC was at least a lot more loose than the Constitution, which was based on the Augustine Principate model.

This is also the strategy.  Create a deliberately flawed mockery of whatever it is that you are attempting to destroy, while making sure that it is superficially similar to the point where people will be fooled; and then wait for your strawman to predictably fall, as you have intended that it would.  When the strawman falls, the valid form of the idea in question will be discredited as well, because at the time at least, the majority will not be able to tell the difference.

The fundamental difference between Anarchism and Communism, even more than the treasonous filth that Marx himself advocated, is the question of non-consentual or involuntary federation, or federalism.  Federalism is always conducive to tyranny; and if you have federalism present, then while you may not have Communism, you will still have the subjugation of the people.

There can be no internationalism, no federalism, and no delegation.  Any legislature that exists, can only be made up of those who are actual signatories of the law in question.  Law that is intended to bind those who are not signatories to it, is invalid, because it is law that will be enforced under duress, or without the consent of the people supposedly bound.  Contract law is the only form of law that truly exists in practice.

There is no such thing as legally valid representative government.  This is because a law can only bind the individual who signs it.  If your "representative," signs a law, then because he is a different person, said law only binds him.  It does not, in any demonstrable practice, bind you. 

If you send a representative or delegate to a meeting with other supposed representatives, what obligation does he really have, to represent you?  The people who truly rule our countries at the moment know how to create obligations for legislators that work, and so it is to said people in the shadows that said legislators are bound; not us.

http://scgnews.com/the-uk-political-pedophile-ring-scandal-is-just-the-tip-of-the-iceberg-the-full-story-is-much-more-d

Let me give you the above story as an example.  The author of said story even spells out the implications, explicitly.  What happens if a senator is a paedophile, and while most people do not know that he is, you do know?  How much power does this give you over that person, if you threaten to expose him if he does not obey you?

There can be no delegates, no representatives, and no federalism.  If there are any of these three things, then there will be tyranny.

[undo11]

well that was an interesting post.  what makes the situation all the sadder, is that it was tied at the hip to a travesty of justice already -- slavery.  and the solution?  enslave everybody?  whoever thought that twist up was diabolically brilliant.

[undo11]

(p.s. i'm making a rpg, it's actually working.  well, so far. it's unity, though.  it's a non violent game, scifi/fantasy themed .  i'd looooooove to have you write the lore, my gosh, your vocab and control of the language is shockingly good.  sometimes i read your writing and it's like poetry. your brain works in strange ways lol )

[petrus4]

well that was an interesting post.  what makes the situation all the sadder, is that it was tied at the hip to a travesty of justice already -- slavery.  and the solution?  enslave everybody?  whoever thought that twist up was diabolically brilliant.

The cabal's movements have mirrored humanity's own.  We kept demanding more and more freedom, so they had to remove the institutions by which they subjugated us from external law, and rebuild said institutions within our very minds.  That created a scenario where we began to believe that a condition worse than formal slavery, was something that we had chosen voluntarily.

We are not slaves, formally.  Yet if we do not have occupations, we will starve; and said occupations are usually an order of magnitude more arduous than the relatively simple subsistence foraging or hunting that we were required to do before all of this.  Said occupations have no relationship whatsoever to our direct sustenance, either.  We are given a worthless mockery of money, and are dependent on the industrial system that we give said money to, which provides us with food that our bodies were not biologically designed to process.

We are told that we are free.  Yet we are prevented from correcting the errors in the unnatural, dishonest system of economics to which we have been subjected, by the deception that now exists in our own heads, which says that any possible alternative has already been tried, so it is pointless to continue to do so.

Our fictitious, psychopathic "representatives," pay lip service to the desirability of peace, yet we now have endless war.

I have just been given an external computer hard drive which, by coincidence relative to this discussion, contains a copy of the film, V for Vendetta.



If you haven't seen this film, Undo, then I recommend it; and if you have seen it, I still recommend watching it again.  It will bring into focus much of what I have been saying; truthfully, for most of the time I've spent on this forum.

[burntheships]

Look at the missing TRILLIONS annually, look at the TRILLIONS in black ops spending. Do any of you REALLY believe that all that money (on top of the day to day running of the government) comes from 120 million or so taxpayers?

At one point in 2012 The Black Budget was estimated at 75 billion ( annually!!!!) .
http://fas.org/irp/budget/index.html

I suppose that would go a long way towards "social programs".

If the Pentagon really "spends" that money, or if it is just lines on
a budget, who really knows? Where does all of that money really go?
Who is keeping track? Who tracks down the missing millions?



Who really knows how many government agencies there are in the first place?

The government does not even know.

[undo11]

The cabal's movements have mirrored humanity's own.  We kept demanding more and more freedom, so they had to remove the institutions by which they subjugated us from external law, and rebuild said institutions within our very minds.  That created a scenario where we began to believe that a condition worse than formal slavery, was something that we had chosen voluntarily.

We are not slaves, formally.  Yet if we do not have occupations, we will starve; and said occupations are usually an order of magnitude more arduous than the relatively simple subsistence foraging or hunting that we were required to do before all of this.  Said occupations have no relationship whatsoever to our direct sustenance, either.  We are given a worthless mockery of money, and are dependent on the industrial system that we give said money to, which provides us with food that our bodies were not biologically designed to process.

We are told that we are free.  Yet we are prevented from correcting the errors in the unnatural, dishonest system of economics to which we have subjected, by the deception that now exists in our own heads, which says that any possible alternative has already been tried, so it is pointless to continue to do so.

Our fictitious, psychopathic "representatives," pay lip service to the desirability of peace, yet we now have endless war.

I have just been given an external computer hard drive which, by coincidence relative to this discussion, contains a copy of the film, V for Vendetta.



If you haven't seen this film, Undo, then I recommend it; and if you have seen it, I still recommend watching it again.  It will bring into focus much of what I have been saying; truthfully, for most of the time I've spent on this forum.

i've always found that movie to be disturbing and emotionally abusive.   already been there, not interested. going slowly insane, once in my life, was quite enough, cause it sure as heck felt like torture, even if the whole thing was only in my infected brain.  no one should have to go thru what i did.  no one.  i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy or my best friend. when i say no one, i mean NO ONE.

to me, he doesn't represent a free-ing influence.  there's no illuminating knowledge there worth exploring other than his twisted mind,  nor does he provide any kind of logical rationale worth mentioning, that'd convince me that his behavior, where she was concerned, was necessary, logical or anything short of plum crazy. 

i get really fed up with the movie themes that suggest that anyone who has a spiritual bone in their bodies must be divulged of it, post haste, unless it happens to look just like their bone.  for their own good.  what a bunch of crap

sorry, i don't like v for vendetta,.

[Glaucon]

This solidifies my opinion that political parties are among the more inherently toxic dichotomies we are forced to share earth with.

The hardest lesson for me, years and years ago, was learning how to evaluate both parties "vision". It took me years to form the discipline necessary to keep my head from exploding. It is quite refreshing being able to vote based on a legitimate analysis of ones vision.

The one thing that bothers me about the Republicans however, is they too often justify their position with an attack against Democrats. All I hear is: "Well those leftists are WAY worse than us". And all I hear the Democrats say is: "Ok people, here's how we'll make this work...We're gonna slap another few layers of bureaucracy on top of the now under performing last installment"

I'm an Independent. but I believe my political philosophy to be "progressive". I don't feel it's an ideology, I believe it's a task. It's called being smarter than I was yesterday.