Sick and disabled braced for enforced work-for-benefits programme

[petrus4]

Having able bodied people work for the dole... why is that a problem? It's just like getting a job isn't it?  Why does anyone complain? Or is it they just don't want to work and prefer the handouts so they can sit at the pub all day?

A big part of the problem with this rationale, is that very few of the people who express it, actually mean it.  90%+ of the "work is a moral virtue," crowd would gladly accept a passive income via usury or pyramid schemes if they could get it.  My father is one.  He used to give me lectures similar to the above on the supposed moral righteousness of work, and yet he's spent most of his adult life going from one pyramid get-rich-quick scheme to the next; always seeking that magical means of bringing in $20K a week without having to lift a finger.

Unless you're doing manual work like agriculture, the trades, or artisan stuff, making money has nothing to do with work whatsoever.  It is about who you know, and the degree to which you are willing to conform, and that is all.  If you know the right people, and are willing to stimulate them orally to a sufficient degree, you can become economically secure.

Again, relative to agriculture or the conventional trades, the "work-as-moral-good," argument has some genuine truth to it; but in terms of the majority of real occupations that most people do these days, it means nothing.  If you do any sort of office work whatsoever, whether or not you drink with the guys after work, play golf with the boss, or get invited to the Christmas party has far more to do with your professional wellbeing than real job performance.  It's a purely social game.

Industry by itself, will only get you anywhere in the event that your money is tied exclusively to your output.  That is only true in the case of occupations like farming, where you are producing some sort of generic commodity that everybody needs, year in and year out.

In IT or finance, however, the above is not true.  The product is not your output; it is you yourself.  Most jobs related to economics don't have legitimate reasons to exist anyway, in terms of what they genuinely do for society.  In such jobs, the only thing that matters is how much management likes you.  If management likes you well enough, you could be a bully or the biggest screwup on the planet, but you'll be safe. 

I'm subscribed to /r/sysadmin on Reddit, and as the people their demonstrate, IT as an industry is now completely corrupt.  They were lamenting just recently, about the fact that IT employers now care much more about a recruit's interpersonal skills and "emotional intelligence," (read: the ability to pass as slimy, gladhanding, latte-sipping, Millennial corporate scum that exclusively use Google's brand of lying corporatese in leiu of plain English) than about the ability to actually keep a computer running, which in a more sane world, would be the entire reason why a sysadmin would be employed in the first place.

I've got 20 years of self-taught experience using open source UNIX in various different forms; but I'm going to have to be very, very desperate indeed, before I will remotely contemplate trying to get a job in that industry, in its' current form...and even then, I most likely wouldn't.

The short answer to this is...

[zorgon]

You seem to spend more effort at NOT working then most people do on a 9-5 job

[astr0144]

I dont blame any one for not wanting to work if they are  only being offered low paid jobs, and if they can get away with getting benefits..

But there are many people who are denied benefits and have little choice and have  to take what ever work they can  get to earn some income to survive !...

Of the  people who do not or are not working...some are Ok with it and can get by on little income..and be quite occupied with their own interests...

Others get extremely bored being out of work or being at home all day... and maybe for those sort of people they are better doing some sort of work to occupy themselves...

Somethings about work are good for us...

when you are out of work one can become very unfit and unhealthy and depressed...

but for some also work can create health issues for them if its doing something not suited for them...or that they dislike..

Hopefully we should be offered free choice in what we decide upon. but hopeully do not end up in severe poverty or homeless.
and maybe if one does not decide to work for anyone else that they can find their own ways to make some sort of honest income !

[Somamech]

And then they refer to it as "Government Debt".




@Soma, great story. Thanks for sharing.


In this neck of the woods, The Salvation Army does a great job with community effort, helping in many areas of need. They have kitchens where they serve meals daily, and food banks, they will help with clothing, uitility bills....etc. , and the people who run it are not taking an exhorbitant salary. ( Unlike some other so called
"Charities".  The money they take in goes mainly to help for the needy.

Hey good to see you mate

At that time I refrained from the Op-Shop option of being unemployed for 6 months.. Dragon Museum vs Op-Shop...a no brainer LOL

I guess the moral to the story is that making people work a bit (if you could call it work in my case) bought a smile to a dial in someone who was a bit beaten up from applying for so many jobs getting nowhere with employment.

[Somamech]

I imagine this thread may go down the path of "making opportunity" at some point. 

Having worked as a Corporate Audio-Visual dude, along with now 14 years ongoing experience in the 3D Printing Industry I have been surrounded by some serious heavy hitter's and at the end of the day the only difference I have noticed in those that make buck's and those that don't is.... Those that do "Implement their Thought and Carry it out". 

SO whilst many people sit back and play the victim card in "everyday life"... You could be the one implementing some change through the same means.   

Tonight I happened upon this young bloke whilst searching for a farmers market who has a new business distributing Organic Fruit and Vegie's.

This guy is a go getter, and once I am back from Taiwan in mid Jan I'll place and order for a box of Banana's and Date's. 

http://www.fruitwellbeing.com.au/fruit-wellbeing.html

Not the Best video but here he is:



Man up and be the Man

     

[zorgon]

and maybe if one does not decide to work for anyone else that they can find their own ways to make some sort of honest income !

THIS

This is what I have been saying all along. There are literally thousands of ways to make money in the western world. I cannot speak for other countries as I have not been there to see it first hand though I know this applies in China and Russia

What is required is a will to work finding a niche that fits your talents  or learn a new talent

We have trash pickup here twice a week.  Every trash night there will be 4-5 pickup trucks in our area looking for scrap. People are always tossing out old furniture, old yard stuff, window frames etc etc.  These guys with the trucks are usually illegal but not all.

At the current price of scrap they make a good buck on a weekly basis.  I collect scrap but not like I used to. But still just saving all the metal and cans etc... I take one trip a month to the scrap yard 5 minutes away and usually average about $300.00  And that is without effort

Not sure you guys in the UK can do this but it works here

If you have a vehicle (or can rent a Uhaul) you can run a free ad in community news as a handy man.  We get people knocking at the door all the time to offer yard cleaning, garage cleaning and other assorted odd jobs. These are usually Mexicans and Vets.

Had our two story house painted a few years ago for $700.00... they supplied the paint  my three trees trimmed for $150,00

These are jobs I can no longer do  but those prices were awesome. Both times it was Mexicans.. They were a small crew and did the job fast

There are a lot of people in houses that need work done but cannot afford the big contractors. I will have at least five jobs I need done next spring.

We still get the occasional kid comes around to rake leaves or cut grass

[WarToad]

...I take one trip a month to the scrap yard 5 minutes away and usually average about $300.00  And that is without effort.

I do the same thing.  Just save up the waste aluminum/steel from my week.  Soup & vege cans, beer/pop cans.  The neighboor kid saves his up too and brings them over and I give him a cut of the $$$.  Every 2 weeks I go to the recycle center which actually pays you for metal.  It's typically $25-30 every 2 weeks.  Doesn't sound like much until you realize over the course of a year it's about $500+ for nearly no effort.

[Sinny]

There are literally thousands of ways to make money in the western world.

Crime is one of them 

At the current price of scrap they make a good buck on a weekly basis.  Not sure you guys in the UK can do this but it works here

Yup, we have several local scrap men in each area...

If you have a vehicle (or can rent a Uhaul) you can run a free ad in community news as a handy man

We have lots of those too..

There are a lot of people in houses that need work done but cannot afford the big contractors.

We have lots of those too...

We still get the occasional kid comes around to rake leaves or cut grass

We have lots of those too...

Problem over here in the UK, and I'm talking from observation and experience (our 'speciality' at my work place is helping people go self employed), is that each of our trades are over worked, meaning, work is scarce, and people will be lucky to pay their rent, let alone make a decent living - there are a few exceptions of course... Hence 'working tax credits' creating the illusion we are 'well off' earners - when in fact, most of the working class are being supported via tax payers money.

Giveth with one hand, taketh with the other.

Look at it from this point of view - our councils in Brum town are looking at limiting the amount of 'Take Away' outlets we have over here, as most of our 'high streets' have a ratio of 15:20 outlets performing the same 'food service' ... Which is a direct consequence of our (otherwise) unskilled immigrants... Most of these outlets end up struggling for months, and eventually closing down due to poor takings..... and then re-opening for the same purpose, and repeating the same cycle.

The only time this cycle is broken, is when Big Corp come and take over and transform.

Welcome to inner city prospects.

[Sinny]

I do the same thing.  Just save up the waste aluminum/steel from my week.  Soup & vege cans, beer/pop cans.  The neighboor kid saves his up too and brings them over and I give him a cut of the $$$.  Every 2 weeks I go to the recycle center which actually pays you for metal.  It's typically $25-30 every 2 weeks.  Doesn't sound like much until you realize over the course of a year it's about $500+ for nearly no effort.

In a funny turn of events, back in the day, we used to be offered incentives for recycling over here..

Today, thanks to the Tory Gov, now we have to pay a service charge in order to recycle our stuff lol.

[Sinny]

Thanks for the explanation, Sinny.

But there's one thing I didn't understand, are people being forced into unpaid work?

I need to correct myself - I've just returned from training, and as it currently stands - DWP can NO LONGER MANDATE WORK PLACEMENTS. period.

Poundland lady won the case for everyone

[Somamech]

Recycling is Great Topic and their is a Moral for the whole family here

In Australia there is only One State which offer's money for Can's and Bottle's, that State is "South Australia".  The current rate is 10c AUD per item.

You can read a bit more about the recycling process here in South Aussie:

http://www.recyclesa.com.au/index.html

Funny enough and this is bashing big company's on my part is how other states in Australia wanted to implement this rather good scheme and the Big Boy's said "Eff Off".  Luckily our National Broadcaster is educating kids about that LOL

Recycling Canned:

Why would someone take a recycling scheme to court? That's what happened in the Northern Territory last week. A soft drink company challenged a new law that said people would be paid 10 cents for every drink container they recycled. There's a similar scheme in South Australia so why wasn't this one allowed? Let's take a look.

Source:

http://www.abc.net.au/btn/story/s3707980.htm

[Somamech]

To follow up on my South Aussie Recycling post above in regards to a decent recycling scheme and making bucks:

Durianrider caught STEALING stuff from peoples bins!



If we had that scheme in Melbourne.... 

[zorgon]

The neighboor kid saves his up too and brings them over and I give him a cut of the $$$.

A local Boy Scout group here used to do that as a fund raiser... got all the neighbors to donate the cans abd they would come collect them.  Haven't seen them for a while as the scout master moved away. But he had them do yard work for the elderly too.

They made quite a bit of cash

[zorgon]

In a funny turn of events, back in the day, we used to be offered incentives for recycling over here..
Today, thanks to the Tory Gov, now we have to pay a service charge in order to recycle our stuff lol.

Several years ago in Toronto the city tried to pass a law that it was ILLEGAL to pick trash from the curb.

The "logic' was that once on the curb the trash belonged to the city... so if anyone was going to recycle it it would be the city so you were stealing.

Didn't last long LOL public outcry stopped it because the landfill sites were already over flowing.

I pick up a lot of old furniture of trash days. As I am a carpenter I restore a lot of it and resell it. Same with yard sales I find cheap old furniture fix it up and resell

Here is one I listed on Ebay  Looks like someone in Florida wants it



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Birch-Multi-Draw-Jewelry-Display-Case-/111533715496

Old dressers have hardware on them... Vintage drawer handles sell for 7-8.00 a pair  The wood I cut up for firewood if they are beyond repair

[astr0144]

Claimant 'treated like scrounger'

This is the sort of thing where the benefits system has gone overboard and very much made the whole thing with dealing with the benefit system being like treated as if it was Nazi Germany..
with scrutinising investigation into ones circumstances...Its especially hard on anyone with any sort of mental problems as often mental issues are hard to detect or prove and if any claiment is in such a position, it makes it very hard for them...
I suspect many people with such conditions have had their benefits stopped and been forced into even more difficult situations that will cause them more harm...

It even stops some people who need help from asking for it as they do not want to be put through such a demeaning experience..


MSPs have heard how people with mental health problems were made to feel like "scroungers" by those working in the welfare system.

One former claimant told Holyrood's Welfare Reform Committee that the process of claiming benefits made his depression and anxiety worse while another described the agency tasked with carrying out disability assessments as "like the Gestapo".


http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/news/scotland/claimant-treated-like-scrounger-1.728247