An Interesting thing happened today on Facebook

[zorgon]

An Interesting thing happened today on Facebook

This was triggered by the recent Roswell Slide Hoax....

Background:

A group of "UFO experiencers"...(those that have had ET contact or abduction stories) came out in heavy support of the slide being real.  These people all believe they have been contacted by aliens, or have contacted them, or been abducted.

Well today on of the group posted the apology letter from Richard Dolan for supporting the lie.

The interesting thing that happened is that they have now changed their tune and are admitting in public that their "experiences" may be OBE's or dreams.

I found this fascinating as I have always assumed this to be the case... but this is the first time they openly admit it.

I will quote without names...

TL:  "Extraterrestrials are VERY real. I have seen up close and personal. NO DOUBT!"

AD "...all UFO sightings are secret military projects ... which I don't believe to be true. UFO's have been witnessed long before we even had a military lol ... and it doesn't account for all the abductions and contactee experiences. I *DO* however think many sightings of UFO's are our own governments secret projects but the fact that they are experimenting on people ... or pretending sometimes to be aliens is completely WRONG and unconstitutional

AD: "Last night I was watching an old TV show that only had one season it was called Earth 2. In it, the Alien Beings visited people in their dreams. I thought that was interesting because I've had so many ET dream encounters. But, I have also seen UFO's in person too. So either they are straight up visiting me in the dream world from time to time or I am having memories of encounters with them -- that I don't remember when awake. Or maybe both."

DKB:  "Same here Adrienne for a couple of decades I wrote them off as just dreams. I had so many and they were so vivid and real! then about 10 years ago I came to the understanding that they were actually out of body experiences dealing with interdimensional ET's"

AD: "Yes I have also wondered if they were OBE's ..."

AVH: "Our sleep is where we are our most vulnerable. But, they come in the waking hours too...In my personal situation,they love when my Husband has to go out of town- then they have a field day with me !!"

MDP: "I do CE5..which is Human initiated contact. I specify that I only want contact with benevolent beings. If you keep your light shield up and raise you vibratory levels and be fearless any malevolent being will not want to come near you. They hate the light. Also the 23rd psalm and mantras are highly protective."

AD: "I never felt that my dreams of them were "bad" though they were sometimes certainly very strange.   I've also had angelic dream encounters - I even had John of God show up in my dreams, Mother Theresa, etc"

DKP: "'m one of the fortunate ones also who has had contact with the benevolent ones! My heart goes out to the people who have been taken by the more scientific not so kind E.T's"


So it seems that many of the experiencers are starting to realize that their contacts are not in the physical plane, rather dreams or OBE events.

These ET's sound a lot like the Imps that Tibetans say live in between our plane and the Astral world and pray on people that use Ouija boards etc. These would also explain why all those channeler's channeling Aliens never produce results

I just found it interesting that they came out in public to say this when all along they have vehemently stuck to their contact stories

[petrus4]

So it seems that many of the experiencers are starting to realize that their contacts are not in the physical plane, rather dreams or OBE events.

Yep.  This is also the entire reason why the existence of UFOs can not be proven physically; because you can't physically prove the existence of something which is not physical.  Understand also, that you can only prove anything physical in relation to everything else physical; nothing exists in isolation.  "Proof," really means cross-referencing or corroboration against something else.  That is all it is.

1 + 1 = 2

The only way that I know that the above sum is correct, is because two plus two also equals four, and the only way that I know that is correct, is because four plus four equals eight, and so on to infinity.  Nothing in mathematics can be proven in isolation, at least that I know of; and people have literally gone insane trying to do so.  The system is a relational closed box, and it only means anything inside itself.  There is no "set of all sets," as Bertrand Russell hoped to find, because outside the final set would be non-existence, and non-existence by definition can not exist.

Pimander once said that something I wrote here sounded like the beginning of a thesis on the fundamental nature of science.  All false modesty aside, yes, I could probably write such a document if I wanted to, and I am also fairly confident that it would be correct.  I will never bother to do so, however, because I well know that it would not have a whispered prayer of being accepted; I might well be assassinated for doing so, were it to become known.  I have learned not to cast my pearls before swine.

I will repeat the quote that Pimander made that comment in response to here.  I said that while Schroedinger in particular said that science has limits, with respect to him, it is not science that has limits, but rationalism itself.  Science is the child of both rationalism and empiricism.  Magick in the medieval sense was almost purely empirical, whereas science in contemporary terms is almost exclusively, and very much excessively rational.  I remain what would be considered today to be a medieval thinker, (or a magician, as opposed to a scientist) because for me rationalism rightfully is the servant of empiricism, rather than its' master; but again, both are necessary.  What is visible can be known empirically or via the senses; what is invisible must be inferred rationally, and concretely established through secondary/dependent proofs.

This is also one of the reasons why I'm not a pseudoskeptic.  When they ask for proof, what they mean is that they want either physically or mechanically derived evidence, specifically.  The aether is a different environment to physical reality, and has its' own laws.  The only thing I can physically prove in relation to the aether, are the physically observable effects of magickal experiments/operations that I perform.  This usually means anecdotal evidence, preferably from multiple witnesses.

You will also note that very few (if any) pseudoskeptics ask for anything that they themselves can verify in the first person, either.  They don't want anything that they can reproduce for themselves, because they have been brainwashed by academia to believe that credentials are quite literally a license to think, and without such credentials, they have no right to think for themselves at all.  This in turn is why I virtually never bother with debunkers, because I have only ever seen a single case of debunking, which did not rely exclusively on the appeal to authority fallacy just described.  In mainstream terms, first person empiricism is now mostly dead.

These would also explain why all those channeler's channeling Aliens never produce results

Channelling is subject to exactly the same rules as everything else.  Predictions are false if they do not produce results.  If Bashar likewise makes statements concerning personal development, then I will attempt to verify said statements via my own direct experience.  If they can be verified, they are true.  If not, they are false.  The only reason why I give him credence is because I have consistently found that his philosophy is provable.  I have encountered other channels where that was not the case, (Mike Quinsey being a good example) and I have dismissed them as frauds.  I have not dismissed them because they lack academic credentials or disagree with the establishment.  I have dismissed them because their statements are provably false.

[A51Watcher]

So 3 people having a conversation on FB makes this the case for the thousands of abductees? 

Ok so what about this case? -









So mass synchronized dreams or OBE's?

I'm thinkin not.

[easynow]

Yep.  This is also the entire reason why the existence of UFOs can not be proven physically; because you can't physically prove the existence of something which is not physical.

That's not true.

Some (non-human) UFOs are definitely physical. 

[Just Looking]

The man who has the following website is 100% convinced it was real and not a dream or OBE.

www.takenbythegreys.com

[zorgon]

So 3 people having a conversation on FB makes this the case for the thousands of abductees? 

Well I have yet to see an actual Alien, or a true picture of an Alien, or a dead body of a true Alien   So Ethereal Aliens seems to be the most likely.  I still think Big Foot and Nessie are intra dimensional glimpses as well.

And even John Lear concedes that the civilizations he sees on the other planets may not be on this plane

So do three people make a case? No of course not but this is the first time I have seen New Age Star Seed Indigo types admit they might be non-physical

So mass synchronized dreams or OBE's?
I'm thinkin not.

Beth met Aliens  They scared her. But she knows here were OBE's.  Ingo Swann ran into them too...

So I won't say they are all like that (yet) but until I see the physical forms, this fits my research a lot better

Bob's Saucer and the Venusian visits in the 50's may be flesh and blood... and CRITTERS do fit the 'ethereal' model. But most recent communications are more about channeling than physical contacts


But prove me wrong   Invite an Alien to come talk to us. I mean after all Pegasus is Alien friendly.  We ask questions first, not shoot first

[zorgon]

That's not true.
Some (non-human) UFOs are definitely physical. 

Friedman says "Some UFO's are Aliens" yet he calls Bob Lazar a fraud. Friedman has never seen a UFO

There are supposedly hundreds of crashes of UFO's according to the crash symposiums, but all those symposiums do is talk and go into empty field where there is nothing to find.  Surely one piece, somewhere, of Alien metal would be found. The government is not that efficient.

I am not saying there are no real ones. I have always said 5% are the real visitors (15% black ops and 80% critters)

I just find it fascinating that THOSE people are now saying its all in their heads

[easynow]

Friedman says "Some UFO's are Aliens" yet he calls Bob Lazar a fraud. Friedman has never seen a UFO

Well, there's more than a few people that have only studied the 1940-1990 case data and have reached the same conclusion. I've had a close encounter with the non-human type of UFO so for me the case reports just confirm what I already know.

I'm no expert on the Friedman/Lazar debate but if I remember correctly, Stanton said the story about the schools Bob claimed to have attended just doesn't add up.

Not defending anyone and I'm on nobody's side but just out of curiosity, can the fraud comment be quoted from anywhere ? Text or video ? if so, please post it. Thanks

FYI note - I never really believed Lazar's claims and I've seen a real UFO but since he resurfaced recently and has stuck to his story all these years, I have to admit, despite all the problems with the case, I'm starting to think there might actually be something to it and maybe some of it's true ?

There are supposedly hundreds of crashes of UFO's according to the crash symposiums, but all those symposiums do is talk and go into empty field where there is nothing to find.  Surely one piece, somewhere, of Alien metal would be found. The government is not that efficient.

I am not saying there are no real ones. I have always said 5% are the real visitors (15% black ops and 80% critters)

Maybe only 5% (or less) of the crashes are real ? and covering up that amount is easier ?

To me that makes more sense.


Really I have no idea if any UFOs have crashed or if any of those cases are real or not, I wasn't there. However, I do think there is something to the Roswell case because they lied about it numerous times and completely dismissing some of the witness testimony isn't easy ...

I just find it fascinating that THOSE people are now saying its all in their heads

Maybe it was and the answer is as simple as that. Not sure how well you know those folks but can we rule out the possibility it's somekind of disinformation effort ?

Might be something to consider since the UFO subject is or was supposedly classified higher than the H-bomb.

 

[zorgon]

Not defending anyone and I'm on nobody's side but just out of curiosity, can the fraud comment be quoted from anywhere ? Text or video ? if so, please post it. Thanks

Sure it is on Stanton's front page  The Bob Lazar Fraud
http://www.stantonfriedman.com/

Article
http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index.php?ptp=articles&fdt=2011.01.07

This is what bothers me most about all the UFO circuit guys... They all attack each other with the "I am right you are wrong" game.  Does Stanton really need to bash Bob every time he opens his mouth?

What good does it do? 

And these UFO 'researchers' are quick to jump on every story that makes the rounds whether true or known fake. Kinda kills their credibility. Look at Howe with the drones, and the recent Roswell slides mess.

I don't listen to any of the circuit UFO presenters. They all have what John calls UFO disease.

I prefer to get my data from those that stay off the circuit.  I find so many holes in the stories on the circuit it is worse than paid government shills

It is also the reason Springer from ATS only did one UFO event.

I am tempted to go again and sell crazy alien souvenirs and heally feelly gemstones  I can make a fortune



The crashes?  Yes I suspect there are really very few... but I have been to crash sites of military craft... there is always a little bit of metal they miss. The government is just not that super efficient.  So I would expect that there are VERY FEW actual crashes

If Aliens can travel millions of light years to reach this little rock in the middle of nowhere, why would so many crash? THAT make no sense.

Bob Lazar?  In my opinion he was a deliberate leak. He was shown enough to have a good story and they dropped him on John Lear.

THAT is the story that makes the most sense  and it is backed up by my own 'leaks' and what I was told about WHY I get them

[space otter]

well first of all I thought face book was farce book?

and  there are lots of folks who are programmable  - just study advertising for a minute or two
and there are a lot of folk who need something in their lives for any number of reasons who can be easily convinced
dreams are real   just not the same as awake   

growing up I would often ask my mother how I knew this or that and her response was.."you must have dreamed it."

if you dreamt it does that make it any less "real"?

imps of yesteryear could very easily be little green / grey men of today

I think most of us here have had some type of encounter and it is one reason we ARE here...trying to fine the truth of it or the realness of it or if anyone else had the same experience..
it's what humans do.. try to find others like them

we just approach it in different ways..unfortunately some like to try and make money from their approach and some desperate gullible follow along

I have never personally seen a crash  but looking into kecksburg  I think I may have found some evidences of one
but I have seen a lot of other things...and for sure they aren't all  'us'

[A51Watcher]

Ah well... back to the drawing board.

[zorgon]

well first of all I thought face book was farce book?

It is for the most part but there are some good people there worth contacting and watching.  I just ran into an old Baywatch Australia gal who is going to put me in touch with Dolph Lungren who wants to meet John Lear and tour NASA Dryden   That would be THIS fellow

and  there are lots of folks who are programmable  - just study advertising for a minute or two
and there are a lot of folk who need something in their lives for any number of reasons who can be easily convinced
dreams are real   just not the same as awake   

True but...  these new age "I am a Pleiadian Star Seed Indigo Child"  chicks have been in Lala land for a long time  now suddenly they are realizing it might be all in their head

That is significant  it really is

growing up I would often ask my mother how I knew this or that and her response was.."you must have dreamed it."

if you dreamt it does that make it any less "real"?

I have had dreams where I am in a different life on a different world  I have returned to those smae dreams and continued. Like Pacard on Star Trek TNG  He lived a whole life on another planet... but it was only one night in real time. In the dream life he learned to play a flute. He was able to play that flute. The story was that an alien race was dying off and this was how they left memories of themselves

I have had dreams that felt that real

So are they real? "Reality is merely an illusion... " Albert Einstein

imps of yesteryear could very easily be little green / grey men of today

YES This has been my direction of thinking  The faeries and gnomes, the elves and trolls... These are what the Pagans saw. The Church saw Demons and Angels...  In both stories the good ones have wings and the evil ones are short and ugly.  Today we have Grays and Pleiadians, Tall Whites and Reptilians.  Same thing different name.

People will say demons and angels are not real but swear they saw a gray or had a visit from a Pleiadian Princess...

All the same  SOMETHING is real It is our understanding and interpretation that needs fixing

I think most of us here have had some type of encounter and it is one reason we ARE here...trying to fine the truth of it or the realness of it or if anyone else had the same experience..
it's what humans do.. try to find others like them

We are a social animal   Did you know that Ferrets dream too? They even talk in their sleep... it's really cute

IF there is life beyond death (and awareness) and I KNOW there is... then it follows that there are other life forms in the Astral and Physical planes that are not human

Faeries and Trolls go way back... stories today are being abducted by Aliens,,, back then you were abducted into caverns in the Earth.  If you were lucky the Faeries got you and you came back in 100 years... kinda like being taken to the Home World today

It's all the same... the names change... it gets muddied by religions and sientists and ufologists with agendas

Take the CRITTERS for example  Many serious UFOlogists are considering the possibilty and so are scientists  but many UFO believers will get mad at you when you tell them their glowing orb is a critter not a space craft from Alpha Centauri

we just approach it in different ways..unfortunately some like to try and make money from their approach and some desperate gullible follow along

Yes TOO many have figured out that the gullible believer will pay... Even those that started out pure have said "Fvck it... there is no glory in truth... might as well get rich"

I have never personally seen a crash  but looking into kecksburg  I think I may have found some evidences of one
but I have seen a lot of other things...and for sure they aren't all  'us'

I will stick with the Faeries Elves and Dragons... and here is why

Everytime I forget about them and do other things I have problems in life in general. As soon as my focus goes back to them... my 'luck' changes

So why mess with my reality?   Never met a Gray I can like (Though Thor from SG! looks like a cool dude ) But the Elves... now they are real

This tune sends energy up mt spine everytime....  can't explain it if you have never felt it  but I can teach you how to extract this "Force" from nature.  Perhaps if I did it more my skin would heal





Yes the ears are fake... that matters not  it is the spirit that counts   The LORD of the Ring Elves are actors you say?  Then you know nothing.  Just look into the eyes of Arwen Undomiel  or Legolas  You will understand

[zorgon]

And as for Farce Page... George Takei is on there as well... Been considering asking if he would do a small intro for UMLR   In any case he is looking to fund a museum

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/george-takei-s-legacy-project?ts_pid=2

[ArMaP]

This tune sends energy up mt spine everytime....  can't explain it if you have never felt it  but I can teach you how to extract this "Force" from nature.  Perhaps if I did it more my skin would heal

I find it boring. 

[space otter]

he's aged just a bit...lol



Lundgren, Sydney Australia, September 2014


did you know


He received a degree in chemistry from Washington State University, a degree in chemical engineering from the Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm in the early 1980s, then a master's degree in chemical engineering from the University of Sydney in Sydney, Australia in 1982. Lundgren holds a rank of 3rd dan black belt in Kyokushin Karate and was European champion in 1980 and 1981. While in Sydney, he became a bodyguard for Jamaican singer Grace Jones and began a relationship with her. They moved together to New York City, where after a short stint as a model and bouncer at the Manhattan nightclub The Limelight, Jones got him a small debut role in the James Bond film A View to a Kill as a KGB henchman.