STS-80 UFO Circle revisited

[JimO]

Zorgon mentioned he's still curious about the STS-80 video. Here are the views of two of the astronauts on that mission. Why are they mistaken?

https://skywalking1.wordpress.com/2011/04/18/did-ufos-visit-sts-80-columbia/

http://www.jamesoberg.com/musgrave_ramble.pdf

[zorgon]

Thanks Jim  I will read those in detail and reply later today

[zorgon]

Why are they mistaken?

Okay sorry it took so long to get back. Have had some serious medical issues last few days.

So lets look at the replies...

But before I begin I want to be CLEAR on the cases I am referring to

1) The STS-80 footage showing the group of objects that form a circle with a single object moving into the middle and suddenly  brightening up and holding position in the center of tht circle

2)  The STS-80 footage of the object that moves over the thunder storm, brightens and stops  and stays in place,  A second one comes out of the clouds and moves off.  As the earth rotates beneath the shuttle and the first object move in position  the NASA operator then zooms in on it just before it moves over the horizon

THOSE are the ONLY tow cases I am interested in, and specifically the 2nd one.

So I ready your note from Story... seems he has MUFON folks all agaga Sure he loves to say he believe that life exists out there but so what? Lets JUST ONCE address the SPECIFIC question,

What does he say about those tow incidents? Well

So STS-80 was a well known one, but it depends now... when I take a video and
I'm looking at stuff and it's a hundred feet away, the video that gets out there, the
reader comes back doesn't know how far away the objects were. And a lot of that
stuff they put it a thousand miles away. Well the videos I took of stuff is 40 feet
outside and I know it came from me, if you say it's a thousand miles away you are
into a very significant phenomenon. But it's not a thousand miles away. It's right
here.

Well no one said how far away the ones in the circle are... the fact that they formed a circle is what matters and that one moved to the center and lit up.   How about addressing that?

And how is the one above the clouds a thousand miles away? The Space Shuttle's orbital altitude normally ranges from 190 miles to 330 miles. So stop treating us like idiots and answer the question

HOW can that one object over the storm... that moves with the earth to the horizon... that the NASA camera man zooms in again on at the last minute before it goes over the horizon POSSIBLY be a speck of dust or ice near the shuttle?

[zorgon]

Okay Tom Jones account

Much UFO speculation in the past has focused on one of my shuttle missions, STS-80, flown in late 1996. Some have maintained that video shot during this Columbia space shuttle flight provides evidence for unknown objects moving in the night sky. I have reviewed this video (for the first time in 1997), and conclude that it shows commonplace and well-known objects near the shuttle, all of them observed on every shuttle flight. These videos show low-light television camera images of ice particles or man-made debris drifting out of Columbia's cargo bay, and floating in the vicinity of the shuttle, likely within a few tens of feet of the orbiter.

Hmmmm likely within a few tens of feet of the orbiter

So he doesn't really KNOW and again I ask;

HOW can that one object over the storm... that moves with the earth to the horizon... that the NASA camera man zooms in again on at the last minute before it goes over the horizon POSSIBLY be a speck of dust or ice near the shuttle?

And he doesn't NOT address the "ice particles that form a circle"

And if as is claimed  if these events such as the STS-80 object are common place or have similar characteristics (as these astronauts claim) then why can't-don't they back up that claim by showing us other video examples for comparison ?

Surely NASA must have tons of footage. Why do we need to rely on intercepted videos when we should have access to all the footage showing how common these things are?

have seen these snippets of STS-80 video many times since our flight. These video scenes were recorded by remote control, under ground command, with flight controllers in Houston's Mission Control operating our low-light TV camera in the cargo bay. As far as I remember, nobody on the crew was looking out the window at these ice crystals or debris particles. Nobody thought anything that our crew observed out the window was of "alien" origin, or something not connected to the shuttle's routine operations (e.g. a large rotating disk or any such unusual structure). Once you understand what the solar illumination conditions are (orbital twilight, with darkness below and sunlight at our altitude), it's easy to conclude that the video shows normal small ice and debris particles drifting aimlessly away from the orbiter, with some pieces becoming sunlit as they move out of the shuttle's shadow. During our science operations, robotic satellite deployments and grapples, and robot arm tests and exercises, we routinely noticed these ice particles and debris catching the brilliant sunlight outside. But these sightings were non-events for us, as we understood what we were seeing completely.

Ah so no one saw them Only the ground crew camera man.   Well ice particles drifting aimlessly away from the orbiter don't form a circle and one stop in the middle. I will grant that moving into sunlight can explain the brightness (even though the rest in the circle did NOT brighten up.

Perhaps we need to ask that Ground Controller what HE thinks  and WHY he zoomed in on it at the horizon. It must have been obvious to him at least that this object was NOT an ice particle near the shuttle

And I ask again;

HOW can that one object over the storm... that moves with the earth to the horizon... that the NASA camera man zooms in again on at the last minute before it goes over the horizon POSSIBLY be a speck of dust or ice near the shuttle?

I don't care whether it's Alien, Black Ops or Critter... ( yes I favor the latter ) It could be a phenomena of lighting like elves or sprits  or something yet to be understood.

But the ones over the storm are in NO WAY ice or dust particles near the shuttle

And quite frankly the explanation has made me lose faith in the intelligence of those they stick on rockets

Just ONCE I would like to see someone actually LOOK closely and think a bit before spouting the standard answer.

The STS-80 videos are records of normal space shuttle operations and optical phenomena.

No  they are not   There is NO WAY that this object on NASA mission control screen is a small particle of ice

[zorgon]

Thank you fro posting those stories but...

...they are entirely useless in addressing the key point

The video in question...

The ones in the storm start at 2:00  BTW the one that pops out of the clouds casts a shadow on the clouds too

[Pimander]

HOW can that one object over the storm... that moves with the earth to the horizon... that the NASA camera man zooms in again on at the last minute before it goes over the horizon POSSIBLY be a speck of dust or ice near the shuttle?

The object casts a shadow on the clouds so is NOT near the Shuttle.  It seems to be associated with electrical activity (storms) in the ionosphere and therefore is probably a plasma of some description.  The question is do these exist outside of storms as independent "entities"?

[zorgon]

It seems to be associated with electrical activity (storms) in the ionosphere and therefore is probably a plasma of some description.

Yes that is my contention  I don't even mind if it turns out to be a natural phenomena associated with storms  I am just tired of the "ice particles near the shuttle" bullsh!t to explain everything

[Pimander]

Perhaps something like ball lightening but longer lived?  I would expect it to discharge quicker though so who knows.

[RUSSO]

Perhaps something like ball lightening but longer lived?  I would expect it to discharge quicker though so who knows.

Hummm.

[Sinny]

I patiently await the 'official' explanantion...
Sharnt hold my breath tho, havn't completed my bucket list yet.

[ArMaP]

No  they are not   There is NO WAY that this object on NASA mission control screen is a small particle of ice

Why are you so sure of that?

What do you see that makes it impossible for it to be a small particle of ice (or other reflective material)?

[ArMaP]

The ones in the storm start at 2:00

That has always been my favourite.

BTW the one that pops out of the clouds casts a shadow on the clouds too

That doesn't look like a shadow, it looks like the result of sensor overload from the bright spots to the left of the "shadow".

[Pimander]

That has always been my favourite.
That doesn't look like a shadow, it looks like the result of sensor overload from the bright spots to the left of the "shadow".

The object also apparently moves over the horizon.  Do you agree that it is likely near Earth and not the Shuttle?

[ArMaP]

The object also apparently moves over the horizon.  Do you agree that it is likely near Earth and not the Shuttle?

Yes, that's what makes that object so interesting, as that's the only one that doesn't look to be a small, out of focus bright object near the shuttle.

[zorgon]

Yes, that's what makes that object so interesting, as that's the only one that doesn't look to be a small, out of focus bright object near the shuttle.

And the fact that the Cameraman is AWARE of that and later zooms in

THAT is why I want an answer on THIS SPECIFIC case

But they never do   All you get is the same BS "ice particles near the shuttle" crap and they hope you will give up asking

I really don't need it to be an Alien space craft I am much more inclined to a Plasma phenomena wether critter or other

OH BTW ArMaP  do you think you could find Jims post to me at ATS where he linked me the NASA file on plasma? I have it saved but as it has only a file number it will take a while to find it

As I recall it was during the discussion of STS75