Yet another early pioneer who was scoffed at and derided finally has the last laugh -
July 05, 2018 22:09·
The wreckage of a few ancient planets formed the asteroid belt
The spinning disc of cloud-like matter began to coalesce into gas giants, icy moons, and rocky planets, slowly over time becoming the Solar System as it is known today. These asteroids are usually large and have orbits that may interfere with the Earth's path. For instance, the main asteroid belt - located between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter - is estimated to contain millions of objects, although only hundreds of thousands have actually been observed. In 1918, Japanese astronomer Kiyotsugu Hirayama was the first to notice that asteroids had similar elements, such as eccentricity and inclination, to their orbit.
The early days of the Solar System was a rough, rather violent place.
Based on Hirayama's ideas, for the past 100 years, astronomers have grouped asteroids into families and non-families, with only half of all the asteroids that we know of being classed in families.
Researchers are now on the right track towards uncovering all of the secrets of the Asteroid Belt. Further, she explained, "If we can turn back the clock and see the asteroid belt was made by these big planetesimals that really is telling us something quite definitive about the circumstances that formed our own planet".
While we know that the main source of Earth's meteorites is the inner asteroid belt, the research team has found that the vast majority of them are the result of a splintering of only five or six ancient, minor planets aeons ago.
more at link -
http://hilltopmonitor.com/2018/07/the-wreckage-of-a-few-ancient-planets-formed-the-asteroid/ (http://hilltopmonitor.com/2018/07/the-wreckage-of-a-few-ancient-planets-formed-the-asteroid/)
I'm a science fanatic like everyone else here. From my perspective, the scientific establishment has been too critical of fresh ideas, and that has been borne out by repeated proof supporting unusual theories after the period of time necessary to investigate them.
I think vanity plays a large role in this institutional attitude. People who've become comfortable with their discoveries do not want their legacy endangered by being proven wrong.
It's that kind of arrogance that has really hindered the sciences. I'm including archaeology and paleontology, all the sciences.
I don't see how "Worlds In Collision" is vindicated.
The study talks about "planetesimals", not planets, and it's not a new theory, it's a confirmation of the mainstream theory for the formation of the asteroid belt.
Edited to add a link to a better article.
Quote from: ArMaP on July 10, 2018, 09:44:08 PM
I don't see how "Worlds In Collision" is vindicated.
The study talks about "planetesimals", not planets, and it's not a new theory, it's a confirmation of the mainstream theory for the formation of the asteroid belt.
Edited to add a link to a better article.
Ok then tell me what was the progenitor of these "planetesimals".
QuoteEdited to add a link to a better article.
So, where's that link?
Quote from: A51Watcher on July 12, 2018, 04:46:20 AM
Ok then tell me what was the progenitor of these "planetesimals".
The same progenitor of the planets. Planetesimals are supposed to have been created in the same way as planets, but planets kept on growing until they reached planet size.
At least that's how I understand it.
Quote from: thorfourwinds on July 12, 2018, 07:33:52 PM
So, where's that link?
Sorry, it looks like I made a "zig" instead of a "zag". ;D
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2018/07/03/many-asteroids-might-be-remnants-of-five-destroyed-worlds-scientists-say
(if you don't have an Washington Post subscription you need to choose the "Free" option, like I did)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1C3RcoJ8ZQ
Did an Exploding Planet Create the Asteroid Belt? Tiamat, How did it Blow Up?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHhupGwPDK8
I am also reminded how the Principal Investigators for each probe mission we have sent out, express their surprise every time we get back data, that the actual results are very different from what we expected to see.
In other words, our previous theories turned out to be rubbish.
On any of the planets that have a surface that retain evidence of surface impacts, we see massive cratering.
How many of these can trace their heritage to the asteroid belt zone?
Has this amount been added to the total original mass of the Planetesimals?
How many asteroids in the belt have actually been analyzed for content? The percentage is quite small.
My point is that from Galileo's time up until now, mainstream sciences' established theories on planets have been proven to be rubbish, and new theories are dismissed out of hand only to be proven correct later.
As time has proven, we wont know until we get actual measurements and data.
Many of Velikovsky's ideas were based on the notion that ancient manuscripts contained descriptions of actual events witnessed, and not mythology as MSS would have us believe.
The details of our actual data up to now show the presence of Trojan asteroids in the orbit of Jupiter as well as in the Asteroid Belt.
(https://i0.wp.com/www.astronomytrek.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/asteroid-belt.jpg?resize=678%2C381&ssl=1)
Also a more detailed look at the belt reveals the Kirkwood gaps -
(http://nitinarcot.weebly.com/uploads/6/8/2/0/6820129/5033639.jpg?349)
I would not be surprised if we find such gaps in the Trojan groups as well.
If we wind back the clock and watch the origin of these asteroids I would also not be surprised to see them as part of a larger body suddenly blasted to smithereens yet left in their original orbit as evidence of their original fate.
I think it would be best to reserve judgement on Velikovsky's ideas or any others until we have actual data. Our track record up till now shows that would be the best choice.
Quote from: A51Watcher on July 14, 2018, 04:41:13 AM
On any of the planets that have a surface that retain evidence of surface impacts, we see massive cratering.
How many of these can trace their heritage to the asteroid belt zone?
Has this amount been added to the total original mass of the Planetesimals?
From what I have seen, some computer simulations say that, at most, there was originally as much mass on the asteroid belt as there is on Earth, while at the moment it's just around 0.001% of Earth's mass, so it looks like some people have thought of that too. :)
QuoteHow many asteroids in the belt have actually been analyzed for content? The percentage is quite small.
What do you mean by "analysed for content"? Their composition?
QuoteMy point is that from Galileo's time up until now, mainstream sciences' established theories on planets have been proven to be rubbish, and new theories are dismissed out of hand only to be proven correct later.
As time has proven, we wont know until we get actual measurements and data.
Yes, that's how it works, someone has a theory, it is tested with the available data, is supported or rejected, other people come up with new theories, we get more data, the theories are refined, etc, etc.
The first (I think) theory about the formation of the asteroid belt was that it was the remnants of a destroyed planet, but then more data showed that that wouldn't explain the behaviour and composition of the known asteroids, so new theories appeared. This theory appears to be a refined version of the original theory, as the data they got for the asteroids' orbits showed that they had a half dozen or so common points or origin, indicating that they came from a half dozen planetoids that were destroyed.
If this is the real explanation or not, time will tell, as usual. :)
QuoteIf we wind back the clock and watch the origin of these asteroids I would also not be surprised to see them as part of a larger body suddenly blasted to smithereens yet left in their original orbit as evidence of their original fate.
One reason scientists don't think now that the asteroids are the remnants of one planet is the amount of energy needed to break a planet in small pieces and the consequences of that release of that energy.
QuoteI think it would be best to reserve judgement on Velikovsky's ideas or any others until we have actual data. Our track record up till now shows that would be the best choice.
That's what I think, it's to early to say that Velikovsky was right or not, the data still doesn't support his idea. :)
Actually the asteroid belt was created from the left over debris of a planet that exploded during a war that invoved Earth (then closer to the sun and covered i clouds like Venus) Mars (then with water and atmosphere) and a third planet. I don't have a name for it but we won't use Planet X because that will confuse issues. Lets call it Gor :P
The war was brutal It scarred Mars leaving a huge gash, stipped away the atmosphere... Gor was knocked out of orbit and its trajectory brought it close to Earth, knocking Earth out of its orbit (finally settled where it is today) This made Earth cooler and the clouds dropped their moisture resulting in fantastic floods.
This also opened the heavens for the first time and you could now see stars. It also shortened life spans as we were now exposed to radiation from space.
Planet Gor made a second pass as it reurned again due to its orbit and this time closer. The forces tore the moon out of what is now the Pacific ocean creating the broken plates and ring fire that is still causing havok today.
The force of this near collision also broke apart Gor and the pieces finally settled into the orbit that is now the asteroid belt. This is why we find fossils in pieces of meteors... because they came from an already established planet, not proto planets in early formation.
There were beings, advanced beings, on all three worlds. Gor was completely destroyed, Mars was stripped of water air and life (though possibly their may be surviving underground colonies) and Earth was torn apart.
This is the short version :P I have yet to write this up with evidence collected/ I DO have an old Tibetan description of the orbital mechanics of this event :D
There are clues in all our ancient texts (just the chronology is wrong)
The flood is in many stories, even before the Bible. Bible says "sun stopped in the heavens" It would appear as that , when the earth was jolted out of orbit. The ring of fire is real, the cracked plates are real.
Stories of Atlantis having destroyed themselves with powerful crystal energy weaopns still exist. People are quick to say "Aliens" as in from outside our system but I suppose people from Mars and Gor would be aliens :P
The Sumeriand tell of the collision of Tiamet. Sumerian cosmology says the earth is a flat disk under a Tin roof... well they were right... sort of... because the people that survived this did so on the ark... the ark was a spacecraft that hovered over Earth for generations waiting for it to settle down and become livable again
This is also why there are only a small number of pre cataclism objects found like the Antikythera mechanism :D NOTHING much survived The Great Pyramids were another survivor
THIS is Noah's Ark... with the various biospheres... The stories of Atlantis say humanity was disperese to all the corners of the earth... the Sumerians remember the tin dome over their flat earth (biosphere) The bible says "7 of each clean beast, each and his mate (that's 14) and 2 of each unclean beast each and his mate" (thats 4). Now that number is a viable biological reproduction amount but those numbers woule never fit on that little wooden boat.
Besides if they were all on one boat that crashed in Turkey... how did the Kangerooos get back to Australia? they can't swim... and WHY are certain species only found in one location? If they all spread out from that wooden boat in Turkey would they not be all around the world?
THIS is a true account of what really happened... I just need to put it together in a logical order
I chose the name GOR because that is an old novel series by John Norman from the 50's about a Counter Earth... a planet in our same orbit exactly opposite the sun :D Using Tiamet or Planet X would just confuse too many people as Planet X has already wrongly been mixed up with Nibiru
Believe it or believe it not your choise but this IS a true accounting and it fits the facts
@Zorgon - I seem to recall that the planet you mention was called Man.. I will try and find out where I saw that name and the story about the war you talk about m8, gimme a day or two -
Cheers,
Fans'
EDIT' - This is one of the links that are of interest and cover off Thomas Van Flandern theory about the exploding planet hypothosis, it starts properly at 2mins 40's.. the first 2 mins are the guys setting up -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8K5SeRj4gTc
Edit' - I think I am wrong about the name Man, I cant seem to find the reference for it ::) anyhoo, here is a great link https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/marte/esp_marte_29.htm#Summary of the Exploded Planet Hypothesis (eph)
I will ping more as I find them. :)
Edit" - https://iaminow.wordpress.com/2010/02/22/planet-hypothesis-hyperdimensional-physics/
Quote from: zorgon on July 15, 2018, 08:15:50 AM
Actually the asteroid belt was created from the left over debris of a planet that exploded during a war that invoved Earth (then closer to the sun and covered i clouds like Venus) Mars (then with water and atmosphere) and a third planet. I don't have a name for it but we won't use Planet X because that will confuse issues. Lets call it Gor :P
The war was brutal It scarred Mars leaving a huge gash, stipped away the atmosphere... Gor was knocked out of orbit and its trajectory brought it close to Earth, knocking Earth out of its orbit (finally settled where it is today) This made Earth cooler and the clouds dropped their moisture resulting in fantastic floods.
This also opened the heavens for the first time and you could now see stars. It also shortened life spans as we were now exposed to radiation from space.
Planet Gor made a second pass as it reurned again due to its orbit and this time closer. The forces tore the moon out of what is now the Pacific ocean creating the broken plates and ring fire that is still causing havok today.
The force of this near collision also broke apart Gor and the pieces finally settled into the orbit that is now the asteroid belt. This is why we find fossils in pieces of meteors... because they came from an already established planet, not proto planets in early formation.
There were beings, advanced beings, on all three worlds. Gor was completely destroyed, Mars was stripped of water air and life (though possibly their may be surviving underground colonies) and Earth was torn apart.
This is the short version :P I have yet to write this up with evidence collected/ I DO have an old Tibetan description of the orbital mechanics of this event :D
There are clues in all our ancient texts (just the chronology is wrong)
The flood is in many stories, even before the Bible. Bible says "sun stopped in the heavens" It would appear as that , when the earth was jolted out of orbit. The ring of fire is real, the cracked plates are real.
Stories of Atlantis having destroyed themselves with powerful crystal energy weaopns still exist. People are quick to say "Aliens" as in from outside our system but I suppose people from Mars and Gor would be aliens :P
The Sumeriand tell of the collision of Tiamet. Sumerian cosmology says the earth is a flat disk under a Tin roof... well they were right... sort of... because the people that survived this did so on the ark... the ark was a spacecraft that hovered over Earth for generations waiting for it to settle down and become livable again
This is also why there are only a small number of pre cataclism objects found like the Antikythera mechanism :D NOTHING much survived The Great Pyramids were another survivor
THIS is Noah's Ark... with the various biospheres... The stories of Atlantis say humanity was disperese to all the corners of the earth... the Sumerians remember the tin dome over their flat earth (biosphere) The bible says "7 of each clean beast, each and his mate (that's 14) and 2 of each unclean beast each and his mate" (thats 4). Now that number is a viable biological reproduction amount but those numbers woule never fit on that little wooden boat.
Besides if they were all on one boat that crashed in Turkey... how did the Kangerooos get back to Australia? they can't swim... and WHY are certain species only found in one location? If they all spread out from that wooden boat in Turkey would they not be all around the world?
THIS is a true account of what really happened... I just need to put it together in a logical order
I chose the name GOR because that is an old novel series by John Norman from the 50's about a Counter Earth... a planet in our same orbit exactly opposite the sun :D Using Tiamet or Planet X would just confuse too many people as Planet X has already wrongly been mixed up with Nibiru
Believe it or believe it not your choise but this IS a true accounting and it fits the facts
So the REAL War of the Worlds?..... 8)
are you guys talking about maldek??
with my first studies of astrology i was lead to the stories
but haven't read much science fiction so we may or maynot be talking of the same thing
if you type in maldek -even in you tube - it's everywherehttp://karljahn.tripod.com/Maldek.htm
QuoteSomehow this imaginary planet acquired the name "Maldek." There are as many versions of the story of Maldek on the Web as there are New Age goofs who don't grasp the principle of non-contradiction or the difference between fantasy and reality. It's rather a shame, actually: if any of these people could discipline their imaginations, they might have the makings of a science-fiction writer. The story of Maldek is the stuff of grand space opera.
* * *
"If you look at the ancient literature on your planet, like the Sumerian texts, you'll see that the ETs were using what is very similar to your present-day rockets. The ETs did not have hyperspace capability. Most of them lived either on the Earth or in space stations very close to Earth on both Mars and Maldek which is now your asteroid belt.... In those ancient days there were really only three planets that could support physical life: one was Mars, one was Earth and one was Maldek, which is now your asteroid belt. There were no humans on those planets. They were primarily ET territory."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/otof/otof10.htm
QuoteJames 3:6: "And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell."
This verse can also be translated: "And the tongue is a fire, that world of iniquity: the tongue is among our members that which defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the wheel of nature (or birth), and is set on fire by hell (Gehenna)."
Referring again to Maldek, James 3:6 could read: "And Maldek (the tongue) is aflame (a fire), that would of iniquity: Maldek (the tongue) is among our planets (members) that which defileth the whole solar system (body), and setteth on fire the vortex (wheel) of nature (or birth), and is set on fire by the unseen state (hell)."
In Greek, hell is here translated as Gehenna (Hebrew, Gehinnom). Gehinnom was the valley of Hinnom, near Jerusalem, where the city's refuse was thrown and burned; hence, hell-fire and hell
Maldek - Ascension Glossary
https://ascensionglossary.com/index.php/Maldek
Aug 27, 2016 - These 12 planets are Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Maldek, Jupiter, ... Leviathan Races are a part of the history which manifested the black ...
The Law of One Category Earth History, Subcategory Maldek/Bigfoot
https://www.lawofone.info/results.php?c=Earth+History&su=Maldek%2FBigfoot 24 results - There are various names by which this planet has been named. The vibratory sound complex most usually used by your peoples is Maldek
adding just a few of the other sourceshttps://www.aetherius.org/the-mother-earth/atlantis-lemuria-maldek/
A story of a Survivor | Truth Control
https://www.truthcontrol.com/forum/story-survivor
Jan 31, 2014 - In honor of my lost home planet Maldek I present to you a story I've found about it. Is this story true? quite likely I'm not saying it's fact and I ...
MALDEK / Mulduke - Mystic Knowing
www.mysticknowing.com/glossary/maldek-mulduke/
Apr 2, 2018 - was the 4th planet in our solar system. The original leaders of Maldek were of Sirian descent or DNA aligned with universal truths. They started ...
you get the idea...lots of opinion and regurgitated stories to sift thurՄain Sources։
Robert Morning Sky("Terra papers"),
Zecharia Sitchin,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF8aHfBMBTU
@Spaceotter, the guy talking in the YT link I posted calls it that around 14 mins and 50's into the interview -
Quote from: Sgt.Rocknroll on July 15, 2018, 02:43:23 PM
So the REAL War of the Worlds?..... 8)
Effectively ... yes.. All our bits and pieces of religious texts and mythology point to that event, though the details are scattered and twisted.
One factor... Our moon and several others in the system show heavy cratering on ONE side.. Why is this? Well the war theory accounts for that. After the planet tore apart... and before the remaining debris settled into the present asteroid belt, as the moons etc orbited around the sun, they would pass through the debris field perhaps several times. But like sweeping your hand through sand... only the side facing the debris would get plastered while the back side would not (certainly not as much anyway)
There was a documentary I saw on TV years ago Will see if I can find it... It had the action pretty well down correctly... including the moon being ripped out of the pacific... but for some odd reason they had the rogue planet suddenly reverse and come back for a second pass rather than catch it in the next orbit cycle, with no explanation of why it suddenly turned around Other that that it was a good film
Quote from: space otter on July 15, 2018, 03:48:54 PM
you get the idea...lots of opinion and regurgitated stories to sift thur
Unfortunately... that is the problem with the internet today. You get one piece of info or one name... and a thousand people take it and add to it or give their own interpretation of it.
Unfortunately Mike Salla has also jumped on this one. He destroyed any credibility in Secret Space program research and he will do the same to Maldek. That is why I picked GOR LOL No one is using that right now.
As I said though in the EARLY works there are many references to the same story Details may vary, but the basic facts of a planetary war with one planet being destroyed pretty much survive all versions.
I have found it frustrating, especially at a p-lace like Facebook, to present ANY idea or facts... For every one person that likes what you post, there will be 50 to nay say it, call you names or say "No your wrong THIS is the way it happened" even though yesterday they never heard of the idea LOL
So All I can do is keep on collecting my material and presenting it as I do... maybe someone will get some value :D
Quote from: zorgon on July 16, 2018, 06:47:13 AM
One factor... Our moon and several others in the system show heavy cratering on ONE side..
"Several others" is too vague, can you point some names?
At 11:32 NASA's own New Horizons mission video states -
"Next out, the Asteroid Belt, fragments of Worlds smashed to pieces by gravitation, and collisions."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJxwWpaGoJs
Next up, anyone notice anything odd about the dispersion of asteroids in their respective belts?
(https://i0.wp.com/www.astronomytrek.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/asteroid-belt.jpg?resize=678%2C381&ssl=1)
Yes A51, indeed, Van Flandern posited that there where two planets that exploded buddy - Planet V and Body C and Planet K , you may have well seen the below YT's ? worth a watch / look if not tho m8 :)
EDIT" - If you fast fwd to around 40 mins on the first YT Video below, it is where the presentation starts getting on topic -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NMozwMcN58&t=2722s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgzkjsMmRZg
https://www.earthchangesmedia.com/dr-tom-van-flanderns-exploded-planet-hypothesis-strikes-gold
https://stillnessinthestorm.com/2016/09/the-exploded-planet-hypothesis-the-destruction-of-tiamat-electra-maldek-and-the-creation-of-the-asteroid-be/
Fans' :)
Quote from: A51Watcher on July 18, 2018, 05:29:54 AM
Next up, anyone notice anything odd about the dispersion of asteroids in their respective belts?
(https://i0.wp.com/www.astronomytrek.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/asteroid-belt.jpg?resize=678%2C381&ssl=1)
No? Well I think the above image demonstrates an amazing hitherto unknown law of orbital mechanics.
Well, unknown to me at least.
The Trojan asteroids seems to be stuck in flypaper!
Not gradually moving around populating the entire path of its orbit as the asteroid belt appears to have done. So it would be safe to assume that the asteroids in the asteroid belt are also stuck in flypaper.
This would mean that whatever catastrophe befell the original body(s) in that orbital path was very large and widespread.
When considering all this, the phrase worlds in collision is coming to mind more and more often, just as Nasa's own video above says.
And as we have agreed in this discussion, that Velikovsky's idea's and theories have
not been disproven, the vilification of his reputation in past decades was indeed unwarranted.
And so his reputation has been vindicated... and until proven otherwise his theories are as good or better than anyone else's.
re: the Trojan asteroids -
"Their origin probably dates back to the formation of Jupiter: the Trojan precursors were planetesimals orbiting close to the growing planet.
Different mechanisms, including the mass growth of Jupiter, collisional diffusion, and gas drag friction, contributed to the capture of planetesimals in stable Trojan orbits before the final dispersal.
The subsequent evolution of Trojan asteroids is the outcome of the joint action of different physical processes involving dynamical diffusion and excitation and collisional evolution.
As a result, the present population is
possibly different in both orbital and size distribution from the primordial one.
No other significant population of Trojan asteroids have been found so far around other planets,
apart from six Trojans of Mars, whose origin and evolution are probably very different from the Trojans of Jupiter."
Again, the evidence that Mars took a substantial beating in the early days appears to be mounting with actual probe evidence along with our ancient historical evidence considered to be mythological.
The Thunderbolts Project theories, backed by new evidence is also now gaining favor by those with minds open to new evidence.