After reading the related threads on PRC, including Johns and A51 watchers topics...
John did refer to Wendover , Nevada which I believe is about 260 miles North East of Groom Lake as being the NEW Area 51...
I am curious if A51 watcher or anyone has ever visited this area ?
I have not come across anything so far...
BUT I will be surprised if it has not been investigated !
astr0 -
No I have not visited that area. I have not seen any reports of anyone seeing craft being tested there, or anywhere else for that matter.
But I can guarantee you the program is still ongoing at some unknown location. It has such a high priority it was decided to continue testing at Area 51 despite the leak for at least 2 years until the new digs were ready.
It's too bad you didn't hear about the place back in the day, I'm sure you would have come over for a look. I tried to get several people to go with me, but they all chickened out.
If John says Wendover, I would check out Wendover. He has one or two contacts in this field ya know. ;)
Hi A51,
If I had known just a small part of what I know now back in early 1990s when you were aware of such stories and had your experience ...yes I think without any doubt I would accompanied you on a trip if we had been aware of each others interests at that time...
Looking back..Frustratingly I was actually in Vegas on my 1st ever USA trip back in 1988... but I don't think back then that I had never heard of Area 51....but was aware of the Nuclear areas North of Vegas...and was curious...
I will be honest and say that I am STILL Unsure in my mind if it is safe to visit the Nevada area...
With all that testing, I thought that it would remain highly radioactive for many many years after....
IF I do find anything out about Wendover or somewhere in the SW USA area that may be still testing Saucers... I would consider a visit..
The problems will no doubt be the locations will be hostile and remote far away from any Civilization...so one would have to well prepare ones trip.
I hope that John can over some feedback..
Quote from: astr0144 on May 28, 2012, 06:48:38 PM
Hi A51,
If I had known just a small part of what I know now back in early 1990s when you were aware of such stories and had your experience ...yes I think without any doubt I would accompanied you on a trip if we had been aware of each others interests at that time...
Looking back..Frustratingly I was actually in Vegas on my 1st ever USA trip back in 1988... but I don't think back then that I had never heard of Area 51....but was aware of the Nuclear areas North of Vegas...and was curious...
I will be honest and say that I am STILL Unsure in my mind if it is safe to visit the Nevada area...
With all that testing, I thought that it would remain highly radioactive for many many years after....
IF I do find anything out about Wendover or somewhere in the SW USA area that may be still testing Saucers... I would consider a visit..
The problems will no doubt be the locations will be hostile and remote far away from any Civilization...so one would have to well prepare ones trip.
I hope that John can over some feedback..
Hello astr0144,
Nobody has written about it or gone there to my knowledge. Neither have I.
But my sources on this are excellent. One of my sources used to work there.
Others have confirmed the location.
I am far to old to go out there because it is a brutal hike from as far as a 4 wheel drive
can get. Maybe 15-20 miles.
I have posted numerous maps on where it is.
It is hidden from around and above by holograms. The people that work there are told
it is mirrors that hide the area.
They have the same white security SUV's patrolling the area and sensors. One friend of
mine who tried to get close heard SUV's and helicopters (Evergreen circa 2002) obviously
tracking him but he was able to get away for 2 reasons: The first is that they started the
tracking as soon as he tripped the sensors instead of waiting until he got closer. The
second is because they didn't wait to start noisily tracking him and he had time to hightail
it out of there. If they had waited just a littlelonger to start tracking him he would have been
dead meat.
Good luck to anyone who trys but I would highly recommend not attempting it. There is just
too much really secret stuff out there and you wil for sure not get close enough to make the
effort worth while.
I am pretty sure that there is another long runway in the middle of a dry lake down at Ely. A
friend of mine was driving by there and stopped to rest at 2am. At the time he did not know there was
anything at the dry lake which was 7 miles from the road. When he woke up about 3am he saw
something bluish colored and got out and it was the blue runway lights of a long strip. He saw no activity.
Someone else, I think on this forum was talking about a facility to the southwest of Tonopah. Its a nice
four wheel drive, about an hour I think.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention it is 40 miles south of Wendover to the east of Highway 93 Alternate about 15-20 miles in.
Can't miss it!
Is that where that Nevada concrete examiner told you about the hidden runway?
Or was that a different spot?
Quote from: johnlear on May 28, 2012, 08:46:18 PM
Someone else, I think on this forum was talking about a facility to the southwest of Tonopah. Its a nice four wheel drive, about an hour I think.
I wish you hadn't sold those ATV's I miss those excursions :'(
I know your back makes it tough now but dang it was hard keeping up with you :P
Hi John,
Thanks for your reply,
I have at sometime come across one of your threads that discussed some things related to Wendover which had maps...but at the moment I cannot recall which one it was...
I tried a search for Wendover and could only find one thread that has a wider area map indicating the location...
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=305.0
but I thought that I had seen a more detailed map...I am still searching..
IF anyone knows which one it is from memory..without trying a longer search, Id appreciate if you could post the link...
I assume it will be under Johns main threads.
otherwise I should find it If I keep looking...
From what you have said, it does seem like it is too well protected....
and after what happened at Groom Lake from 1988 to mid 1990s....no doubt they would be looking for a better hiding place..and have at least as good security....
It may not be similar to A51 where you could witness something from a major highway if you were lucky enough to pass by at the right time or were observing from around the area...
Although from what you said where your friend stopped near the dry lake runway....if one was to wait around long enough , you may get to see something if they fly Saucers around that area.
Not sure about the Tonopah base, I think that I had read of some sitings some time ago, but nothing recently.
It would be great if it was possible to get a viewing place looking over the area similar to that of Tikaboo at Area 51..
Its fascinating what associates that you have if they have worked at a totally secret base that may be testing Saucers and other mind boggling things...
Hi John,
I looked through several of your threads and tried doing searchs to find a detailed map of the Wendover area but unfortunately so far I have not managed to find anything.
I know you said that the place was about 40 miles south...
I did think at some time that I had seen a detailed map that you posted which had information on it....
I did find one map but that was a larger overall area between Groom Lake and Wendover....and it also had a detailed map of the Tonopah range that you also did refer to.
Can you confirm if you did post a detailed map of the Wendover area that also included 40 miles south ...that you described ...
Quote from: zorgon on May 28, 2012, 09:18:14 PM
Is that where that Nevada concrete examiner told you about the hidden runway?
Or was that a different spot?
The concrete truck driver that was working on one of the five mile deep DUMB's said it was on top of the Paiute Mesa just to the east of the Sandia facility in Silent Canyon.
(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8395/dumbsandianevadatestsit.jpg) (http://img521.imageshack.us/i/dumbsandianevadatestsit.jpg/)
Quote from: zorgon on May 28, 2012, 09:22:38 PM
I wish you hadn't sold those ATV's I miss those excursions :'(
I know your back makes it tough now but dang it was hard keeping up with you :P
Roger that. I don't think I'd be good for a ten minute ride anymore.
Hi John / Zorgon,
Thanks for posting the map....but this is of another area right next to Groom Lake...
is this the other new Area 51 that you referred to at Tonopah ?
DUMB = Deep Underground Military Base
5 miles deep !....that is hard to believe !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEDAE_9v4h0
Do you believe this have an underground rail system ?
Do you have a similar map that shows the Wendover areas New Area 51 ?
Thank you
Astr0144
----------------------
The concrete truck driver that was working on one of the five mile deep DUMB's said it was on top of the Paiute Mesa just to the east of the Sandia facility in Silent Canyon.
astr0 -
Here is the map I believe you were looking for that John posted a while back.
The base is circled with blue letters inside, at the end of the dotted line in the upper right corner -
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l595/A51Watcher/Johnsmapba2bluUpperright.jpg)
Quoting from John's description above -
Quote...it is 40 miles south of Wendover to the east of Highway 93 Alternate about 15-20 miles in.
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l595/A51Watcher/utah_ref_2001.jpg)
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l595/A51Watcher/utah-physical-map2.png)
This information matches what my sources told me in the late 90's, that they had driven east on Hwy 80 from the border and at about 40 miles in, while looking south they saw very unusual lights 'darting around' in the sky close to mountaintop level.
i lived in utah for 10 years. i'm pretty sure that whole south end of the salt lake is salt and mines of various kinds. i think morton salt is very near that circle.
here's a google of where the salt mines are in that area. also there are magnesium mines out there, cause it's used as an anti clumping agent in the salt
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF-8&q=morton+salt+utah&fb=1&gl=us&hq=morton+salt&hnear=0x874c6bc78f13f9cd:0xbddf4aa56cd7463f,Utah&ei=lR_LT5W2BYqU2gWipdnaCw&oi=local_group&ved=0CAUQtgM (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF-8&q=morton+salt+utah&fb=1&gl=us&hq=morton+salt&hnear=0x874c6bc78f13f9cd:0xbddf4aa56cd7463f,Utah&ei=lR_LT5W2BYqU2gWipdnaCw&oi=local_group&ved=0CAUQtgM)
oh wait, is that circle at the south end of the salt lake?
Quote from: undo11 on June 03, 2012, 09:19:28 AM
i lived in utah for 10 years. i'm pretty sure that whole south end of the salt lake is salt and mines of various kinds. i think morton salt is very near that circle.
Yep it looks like Morton is in Grantsville, which is about 40 miles SW of Salt Lake city -
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l595/A51Watcher/utah-road-map.gif)
... and continuing another 80 miles SW we come to the area that was circled. (Near the area marked Gold Hill on this map.)
Quote from: A51Watcher on June 03, 2012, 09:49:39 AM
Yep it looks like Morton is in Grantsville, which is about 40 miles SW of Salt Lake city -
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l595/A51Watcher/utah-road-map.gif)
... and continuing another 80 miles SW we come to the area that was circled.
i've rode by on i-80 many times, but never off i-80 other than a stop at that big artificial tree on the salt flats. i did visit a huge copper mine somewhere in that area but don't recall how we even got there. i think it was in magna, though.
is there a road off or intersecting with i-80 that goes in that general direction? cause i see a road on the map called skull valley rd.
Hi A51,
Very good / Nice find !....
Im curious which of Johns / or which PRC thread you found it on.
I tried doing searches and couldn't find anything more than a general Road type map between LV and Salt Lake...and the other Map John Posted around west of Groom Lake.
That Map style is impressive with lots of physical feature details.
I would like to obtain one similar so that I could zoom in for detailed features.
I stopped of at Salt Lake 3 times in 1988 as I was touring around the USA on a special Airline travel ticket as it was a main airport that was used to change flights.... This maybe before they moved the Saucers to Wendover...
Maybe my Next Visit to the USA will be back to Salt Lake instead of Vegas....if further research can suggest it being worth considering.
Hope that I can get some more detailed info of the area.
Cheers
Astr0144
----------------------------------------
Here is the map I believe you were looking for that John posted a while back.
The base is circled with blue letters inside, at the end of the dotted line in the upper right corner -
Hi Undo11,
thanks for your info / maps.
I think that Utah is one of the nicest States in the USA for adventure and scenery...
West of Salt Lake is Bonneville Salt Flats
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Salt_Flats
It may be the largest Dry Lake in the USA...and it Dwarfs Groom Lake in size comparison...
If it wasn't for Wendover..Its area looks more remote than Death Valley.
South of Wendover it does look very remote...and it May well be a better area to test out Saucers if there is little population.
-----------------------------------------------
i lived in utah for 10 years. i'm pretty sure that whole south end of the salt lake is salt and mines of various kinds. i think morton salt is very near that circle.
this isn't related to area 51, but has anyone here heard the interview the singer from grand funk railroad gave on coast 2 coast? he had a sighting in the corn field across from his parent's house. don't recall what state it was, but he was with a buddy, i think it was his earlier years of doing the whole band thing, and his whole family ended up going outside to see it. his description was fascinating.
this is the show, in case you have access to the c2c archives:
Alien Presence & Gov't Disclosure
Mark Farner - Coast to Coast AM - Jun 25 2005
i have it on .mp3 cause after he gave it originally, he let people download and listen to it from his official website. now it's gone from there and you can't hear it on c2c unless you pay for membership.
here's a tiny excerpt from the interview (art bell is interviewing mark farner, from grand funk railroad):
Art Bell: In view of the way you feel and, and, your religion, I'm, I've heard that you had an UFO sighting.
Mark Farner: Absolutely.
Art Bell: And, and, I'd be most interested to hear about it and how it fits in to what you believe?
(my note: mark is a christian. art apparently thought, back in 2005, that christians didn't believe in ufos (lol how do you not believe it if you saw it with your whole family and a buddy? lol))
Mark Farner: Okay, well let me tell you about it. It was first, the first one, I saw, uhh, which was the most up close and real, it was only maybe a hundred yards away from us. I say "us" because once I pulled in the driveway with the keyboard player, I was with the Bossmen at the time, and the keyboard player, Warren Keith who ended up playing piano for Hank Williams Jr., um, he was driving his Cadillac and we pulled in at my folks house to stop over and ahh, sleep till you know... it was 3'oclock in the morning, we were gonna get up and go the rest of the way in the morning so...
I go up and I'm crawling thru the window because we had an old farm house and the skele, you know, skeleton keys were gone, we'd just lock the screen door and she'd leave, my mother would leave a sliding window unlocked, I'd slide it open and crawl thru...
(him and art are chuckling).
And I'm 'bout half way in and half way out and I hear Warren give this war whoop out in the driveway and I just bust my ass, I jump off the porch and run out there and he's got, he's dropped his satchel alongside him and he's just standing there looking off into the field across the street. And I ran, ran passed the shadow of the corner of the house because it's like a full moon lit night and as soon as I broke into the moonlight I looked over there and here is this flying saucer, and I mean this had to be 200ft in diameter. It was huge. It was in ahh, in like a haze. It had some lights, little tiny lights twinkling around the middle, kinda like if, uh the sun hits a woman's diamond. How it throws the facets,
Art Bell: Right, right.
Mark Farner: it throws the colored lights.
Art Bell: You, you could make out the solid shape of a, of a disk?
Mark Farner: Oh god, yes. Yes and I, and I dove thru the window on my way back into the house, hollering to the top of my lungs, "GET OUT OF BED, GET UP!"
I'll stop there, cause I don't want to completely spoil it for people who can hear the whole thing
Quote from: undo11 on June 03, 2012, 09:56:04 AM
is there a road off or intersecting with i-80 that goes in that general direction? cause i see a road on the map called skull valley rd.
Hah! How appropriate! lol
I have been doing a little snooping with google earth and have found a few interesting things, I will post them here soon.
And also some pictures taken by horse riders even further past the dirt roads.
Not sure about skull valley ( :o ) road yet, the main landmark I am using for comparison to orient myself between these maps is that 'outcropping' about a 1/4 of an inch below what is marked 'Gold Hill' in that last map.
Quote from: astr0144 on June 03, 2012, 01:34:15 PM
Hi A51,
Im curious which of Johns / or which PRC thread you found it on.
I saved it to my HD quite a while back from one of the various forums John was posting on.
Quote
I would like to obtain one similar so that I could zoom in for detailed features.
That is the best resolution I have for that one. Maybe someone around here has a better one.
Here is another one of the same type you might like, with many features marked such as Peekaboo Valley. ;)
(http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l595/A51Watcher/A51ariel01.jpg)
Quote from: astr0144 on June 03, 2012, 01:34:15 PM
Maybe my Next Visit to the USA will be back to Salt Lake instead of Vegas....if further research can suggest it being worth considering.
Hope that I can get some more detailed info of the area.
I would caution anyone considering a 'visit' to the area, to read and consider John's posts in this thread carefully.Also note on his map the area marked 'restricted'.
(However if some Bond type WERE to undertake such a visit, for gawdsake bring some night vision recording equipment!!! ;D )
Which you need to be prepared to have confiscated/ >:(
Hi A51,
Initially I would need to do as much research as is possible...
( although there may not be much to find out if little is known about the area)
My intentions would be to explore around in areas where I believe that I would be in the safe zone...and to try and find out if there were any vantage spots, similar to that of Area 51...Where you can observe its area from Tikaboo Peak...
In the earlier days of Area 51 when it was less known, you could get very close to Groom and be legal... unfortunately as time went on they closed off many of the vantage points, now only leaving Tikaboo..
IF there are Saucers flying around a base near Wendover...they may be visible from certain areas away from any security systems or Cameo Dudes.
This is my initial intentions providing that I can find out more information to make it worth while seriously considering going...
It may be that the whole area is surrounded by very difficult inaccessible terrain....
----------------------------
I would caution anyone considering a 'visit' to the area, to read and consider John's posts in this thread carefully.
Also note on his map the area marked 'restricted'.
(However if some Bond type WERE to undertake such a visit, for gawdsake bring some night vision recording equipment!!!
A51,
Unfortunately I am unable to see the full details from map the map that you posted...I will need to try and obtain a similar map and blow it up in scale.
Maybe if I can place it in a pdf format, I can view it better..as you can zoom in with pdf docs..
or maybe there is a website that has that map on that you can magnify like that of google maps.
----------------------------
Also note on his map the area marked 'restricted'.
A51,
Yes that map of Peekaboo valley is very good for physical features of the area...
It would be good if there was a similar one online like that of google maps...that would allow you to zoom in any area and see close up detail with some descriptions.
Here is another one of the same type you might like, with many features marked such as Peekaboo Valley. ;)
Hi Undo,
Thanks for your posts from C2C...I had not been aware of that before.
With ref to your trip on HW 80 and Skull Valley Rd..
looks interesting area..
I just found this
http://www.kued.org/productions/skullvalley/road/index.html
is there a road off or intersecting with i-80 that goes in that general direction? cause i see a road on the map called skull valley rd.
A51,
I just found another copy of the map that you posted...
With Ref to Johns comments about Wendover...
http://www.alienscientist.com/forum/showthread.php?745-Area-51-Fact-or-Faked-Amazing-craft!!!/page2
----------------------------------------------------------------
I saved it to my HD quite a while back from one of the various forums John was posting on.
That is the best resolution I have for that one. Maybe someone around here has a better one.
I also found a thread on ATS for the Area 52 base.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread314324/pg1
Quote from: astr0144 on June 04, 2012, 02:30:23 AM
I also found a thread on ATS for the Area 52 base.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread314324/pg1
That is a very interesting post :o
That thread was started by Norio Hayakawa in 2007 :o and this is an amazing confirmation :D
QuoteOriginally posted by Norio Hayakawa
QuoteSo excuse me if my understanding is incorrect but is this the area where Mr Lear thinks the amazing well hidden Sandia Base is?
Yes, the Sandia Corporation is within this extensive area and has been for many years. I wouldn't be surprised if Sandia did have a separate small-scale underground research complex in this area as well.
AREA 51 NEWS UPDATES
http://www.hometown.aol.com/area51watch
Quote from: astr0144 on June 04, 2012, 02:03:57 AM
I just found another copy of the map that you posted...
With Ref to Johns comments about Wendover...
LOL that was John's map purloined by Big Pappy... That guy is quite a character
(http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5927/mapba.jpg)
Hi Zorgon,
Was Big Pappy not a member on PRC ?
This was interesting what he claims John had told him about A52
opening up like a Zipper ! and craft going in and out of a big hole in the ground.... seems like Thunderbirds ! :-) only these things may be ET related. Also if there are DUMBs that connect and allow travel to various other Military bases, that is thought provoking at just how incredibly secretive and impressive all this could really be.
How I would really like to know what goes on there !
----------------------------------------
Wow this is incredible I have to go look but John Lear sent me a map of exactly where this place is he calls it Area 52. And On google earth I remember it just looking very suspicious what was interesting about it was there were no mountains that you could go up and look down on this place. I know Lear has some serious Contacts that work as contractors and actual Base Workers he swears there's a Base near Wendover.
Some of what John Said is that when a craft comes in the ground opens like a Zipper and the craft goes in the ground then it Zipps back up could this be similar to what you saw Gigas?? Maybe the craft that was supposed to land at Groom went and landed at that sight because of people being around?? One must admit that something flew in the sky that night and it was not a meteor. Gigas could you please map out the area you spoke of?? And i will track down and post John Lears base near Wendover he may had been right.
Hi Zorgon , John or anyone who can advise...
Is this a pilots map that John has specially obtained ?
What ever it is I would like to see it in more detail if there is a version online that you can zoom in on or if there is a PDF doc of it... then that will allow one to zoom in..
Alternatively Id like to obtain one...
Does anyone know what the Full description of the map is..
and what it is classed as...and what scale ?
eg, is it classed as a OS physical features map...
or is it a military or pilots Map of some sort ?
----------------------------------------------------------------
LOL that was John's map purloined by Big Pappy... That guy is quite a character
Quote from: astr0144 on June 04, 2012, 03:16:28 PM
Was Big Pappy not a member on PRC ?
Yeah he was for a while... but wanted me to delete his account. He fell in with Ed Fouche and Alien Scientist and started into a bash fest... they were part of the reason Open Minds was shut down.
That map and info was posted at Open Minds. As to the map I think it is a pilot map. I will ask John today. Some of the notations on it as I recall were made by John
What I find amusing is how they bash John at Alien Scientist and yet use his info. They even had the audacity to hot link to photos on my website. I actually blocked them :D
The attack posts over there are actually liable but seems John and Bob are not bothering to pursue that. They posted some outright lies about me as well but I put a stop to that real fast
Quote from: astr0144 on June 04, 2012, 04:36:45 PM
Hi Zorgon , John or anyone who can advise...
Is this a pilots map that John has specially obtained ?
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/Area_51/normal_Nevada_test_site_VFR.jpg)
They are VFR maps and can be viewed at Flight Aware
http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KLAS/sectional
Hi Zorgon,
Thank you for your reply and info.
I note what you say about the map and I hope John can comment later...
That is quite concerning what you have said about BP and EF
at AS and how they effected OMs...
I suppose we all have to be careful when referring to someone including me if I comment now about what you have said...
BUT yes I agree what you say about their comments about John and Bob....
Before I was invited to PRC... I had just joined A.S and had been reading BPs comments on Bob and John back then...and I was not too pleased nor agreed with what he was saying...
So I think I know what you mean..
Id like to learn from you some day how to handle outright lies in the best manner...without threats or suggesting lawsuits There is no doubt an art to it.
and this no doubt applies to the real world as well as online.
I have a situation myself that I would like to know how best to go about it...
Although it no doubt depends upon the persons personality and abilities as to how well they can go about it successfully.
--------------------------------------------
Quote from: zorgon on June 04, 2012, 05:28:35 PM
Yeah he was for a while... but wanted me to delete his account. He fell in with Ed Fouche and Alien Scientist and started into a bash fest... they were part of the reason Open Minds was shut down.
That map and info was posted at Open Minds. As to the map I think it is a pilot map. I will ask John today. Some of the notations on it as I recall were made by John
What I find amusing is how they bash John at Alien Scientist and yet use his info. They even had the audacity to hot link to photos on my website. I actually blocked them :D
The attack posts over there are actually liable but seems John and Bob are not bothering to pursue that. They posted some outright lies about me as well but I put a stop to that real fast
What I don't understand is why the boards are all too vitriolic against one another. Makes no sense to Me. Must be a money thing.
Anyway, the maps do bring back memories of living in LV. [sigh]
Amaterasu... you said
What I don't understand is why the boards are all too vitriolic against one another. Makes no sense to Me. Must be a money thing.
I will ask anyone who knows about the history of these other boards. Was it a money thing? It would not surprise me if , like Amy, no one can figure out WHY it happened..... happens.... is continuing to happen....... in some other boards..... Linda
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 05, 2012, 12:05:52 AM
Amaterasu... you said
What I don't understand is why the boards are all too vitriolic against one another. Makes no sense to Me. Must be a money thing.
I will ask anyone who knows about the history of these other boards. Was it a money thing? It would not surprise me if , like Amy, no one can figure out WHY it happened..... happens.... is continuing to happen....... in some other boards..... Linda
May I propose that it is an animal of many faces; part of it is the school yard bully syndrome " Hey, I'm right about everything and y'all are full of it."
Parts of it may be tied to money made from advertising and the competition for it...
but I also submit that much of it is a deliberate attempt to either discredit or push massive amounts of dis-info...
too often when something hits too close to home it is assailed and beaten into the dust...
seeker
Precisely. And it is my theory that the folks doing it don't even realize why they are actually doing it.... They just suddenly " feel " like it.....Linda
smurfs !!!!
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 05, 2012, 12:05:52 AM
Amaterasu... you said
What I don't understand is why the boards are all too vitriolic against one another. Makes no sense to Me. Must be a money thing.
I will ask anyone who knows about the history of these other boards. Was it a money thing? It would not surprise me if , like Amy, no one can figure out WHY it happened..... happens.... is continuing to happen....... in some other boards..... Linda
Quote from: the seeker on June 05, 2012, 03:19:58 AM
May I propose that it is an animal of many faces; part of it is the school yard bully syndrome " Hey, I'm right about everything and y'all are full of it."
Parts of it may be tied to money made from advertising and the competition for it...
but I also submit that much of it is a deliberate attempt to either discredit or push massive amounts of dis-info...
too often when something hits too close to home it is assailed and beaten into the dust...
seeker
Yes, there are many reasons, and agents in the midst to whip this caca up. If We all were to join - like those of Us here have - in trying to uncover the Truth... We'd get a lot farther.
Allowing that same "unified front" in looking for the truth is something that goes against every fibre of the " Mikado Effect" type organizations
. Its alot more productive for them if those out there are kept fighting amongst themselves so that they never come together close enough to " compare notes" and actually learn something. Thats all they have to do.... we harm ourselves all on our own!
Forum after forum with these kinds of subjects ( especially alternate energies) will be disrupted unless those same forums realize what is happening and that its NOT a random thing but planned by some very sophisticated organizations. The first thing that they would have their puppets say of course is that I am paranoid..and of course , can't be trusted,
..I say..... just look at the track records and you will see the fingerprints of what you are actually dealing with here on the negative side of things. Linda
Ah, yes, Linda...
Divide & conquer. Yes, indeedy-doo.
Hi Zorgon,
Thank you for the Map information.
I had not realized that you had amended this post and added in the link until just now.
At least I can now search and Zoom in.
I can now see just how much area is now taken up by the Military
and all the restricted areas around Wendover in more detail.
I wonder what % of Nevada is taken up by uncle Sam and what the
general public think about just how much that they seem to have.
------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: zorgon on June 04, 2012, 05:33:04 PM
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/47john_lear/04images/Area_51/normal_Nevada_test_site_VFR.jpg)
They are VFR maps and can be viewed at Flight Aware
http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KLAS/sectional
I dunno..... if I was going to hide something on a military base I think that I would pick Twenty nine Palms. Its the largest training facility in the United States.... covering as much land as the state of Rhode Island I believe. Alot of desert there folks.
Linda
Yup. It's HUGE!
Worked out there for a couple of years. Never saw anything exciting. Except 9/11 on the TV... I got though the gate just before the second explosion. My office mates were not so lucky. They took an hour or more getting though the gate. Lucky for Me I was the sort to arrive early to work.
Quote from: Linda Brown on June 05, 2012, 06:11:03 AMThe first thing that they would have their puppets say of course is that I am paranoid..and of course , can't be trusted,
THEY may be right :P
Quote from: the seeker on June 05, 2012, 03:19:58 AM
too often when something hits too close to home it is assailed and beaten into the dust...
How about instead of hitting close to ho,e... just ONCE someone makes a home run?
Quote from: Amaterasu on June 05, 2012, 05:32:34 AM
If We all were to join - like those of Us here have - in trying to uncover the Truth... We'd get a lot farther.
To uncover that truth we need to HAVE that truth...
ALL of the bickering and arguing and infighting between forums, whisltleblowers, believers and skeptics... woull all VANISH in an instant if we had but ONE alien body to touch... or one alien spaceship we could look inside... or just one over unity free energy device that we could actually use
Until that day comes.. nothing will change. In the past 6 years I have been very close several times to some real solid info... but no mater how many top level contacts I run into... I am always just short of the prize...
All these insiders... all these whistle blowers...
Just ONCE I would like to see one step up and damn the torpedoes... hand us the goods. Just once before I am worm food :D
Deathbed confession? DANDY ;D but lay the document at the foot of the bed first :D
Ah, very true, z. Still, I think if We worked together, more avenues of truth would be available. I will hope for the documentation to be laid bare for all to see.
Quote from: Amaterasu on June 06, 2012, 09:56:59 AM
Still, I think if We worked together, more avenues of truth would be available.
THAT is why I started Pegasus... to gather those in the know :D
Now if they would just stop VANISHING once we have them... we might get somewhere >:(
Yeah. [sigh] I miss the Cap'n and Matrix.
Russo, Dood, Matyas, Lucy, Doc Deal, Exuberant :(
Quote from: zorgon on June 06, 2012, 10:18:08 AM
Russo, Dood, Matyas, Lucy, Doc Deal, Exuberant :(
Russo has shown up... Rarely, but I think I saw a few posts just a couple of days ago... The others, I guess, were before I got here - or left shortly thereafter. Is that Exuberant as in Exuberant1?
too often when something hits too close to home it is assailed and beaten into the dust...
How about instead of hitting close to ho,e... just ONCE someone makes a home run?
Because sometimes its more important to make base runs, consistantly. And thats from someone who does not understand baseball at all.....and from someone who never knows who she can trust either. Linda
Ah, but if none of the players get to home base before the third strike out... All the base runs in the universe earn One squat.
That from someOne who grew up with the San Diego Padres (though I loathe sports, seeing them all as circuses to keep the masses entrained, divided and conquered).
Thats the nature of the game. Load the bases..... hope that you can bring them all home before you get shut down.
So it goes. A toss of the ball. Linda
Quite true. May luck be with Us!
Luck and every other good force we can call toward us! Linda
Quote from: zorgon on June 06, 2012, 10:18:08 AM
Russo, Dood, Matyas, Lucy, Doc Deal, Exuberant :(
I knew Matt was MIA, hadn't seen exuberant or dood around recently; you haven't heard from any of them,Z? I know all too well how tough things are for most all... yet I also feel more at work than most would acknowledge... all I can say is to stay focused, people, to be positive in all things and in all we do; don't fall into the trap of worry and fear; bump this timeline towards the bright positive goal we wish with our will and desire fueled by our spirit ...
seeker
FTAO John Lear.
This is a Map that Zorgon posted a few weeks ago that allows you to zoom in. and show up more detail.
http://uk.flightaware.com/resources/airport/KLAS/sectional
also see page 4 reply 47 posted June 5th
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1391.60
Quote from: astr0144 on June 04, 2012, 05:45:52 PM
Hi Zorgon,
Thank you for your reply and info.
I note what you say about the map and I hope John can comment later...
That is quite concerning what you have said about BP and EF
at AS and how they effected OMs...
I suppose we all have to be careful when referring to someone including me if I comment now about what you have said...
BUT yes I agree what you say about their comments about John and Bob....
Before I was invited to PRC... I had just joined A.S and had been reading BPs comments on Bob and John back then...and I was not too pleased nor agreed with what he was saying...
So I think I know what you mean..
Id like to learn from you some day how to handle outright lies in the best manner...without threats or suggesting lawsuits There is no doubt an art to it.
and this no doubt applies to the real world as well as online.
I have a situation myself that I would like to know how best to go about it...
Although it no doubt depends upon the persons personality and abilities as to how well they can go about it successfully.
--------------------------------------------
Hello everyone on PRC.
I would like to make a statement . I was reading this most interesting post when I was kind of thrown off balance when I saw the link to Alienscientist forum. If you look Bigpappy51 had all of his [posts taken down on purpose and also tried to leave the forum long ago but they would not allow him to take down his posts.
I want to make something very very clear to everyone on here. Bigpappy51 never badmouthed John Lear he respects Lear too much. However he did badmouth Bob Lazar and deeply regrets it. 3/4 of the posts made against Bob Lazar in Bigpappy51s name were Copy and pastes that Ed Fouche told Pappy to post under Bigpappys51s name. Edgar Fouche has been on a massive mission to destroy Bob Lazar and he got BP51 tied up in the whole mess again BP51 regrets and apologizes 100% for anything negative ever said!!!! I think Fouche brainwashed Pappy ans others agree.
BigPappy51 erased these Posts a year ago or more and lost Moderator Status and Edgar Fouche put Bigpappy51s bash posts up under BP51s name against BP51s will. Even though BP51 was labeled a moderator he was only a Moderator for about 2 months on that forum. He left the forum and have all his posts deleted so any bashing would be gone and also they hacked his account and wrote things in it that were not true.
Bigpappy51 is no longer associated with Ed Fouche or any of the people who run Alienscientist forum.
Just adding this to this thread as Reference....
A Youtube video from "UFO Hunters"..
about :Dugway Proving ground" near to Wendover that is suggested as the new Area 51...where they may have moved to after Bob Lazar exposed what had been going on at S4 / Area 51.
Area 52 "The New Area 51" .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8K-_YyD-5I
This is a link to another new similar thread....
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=6102.msg84674;topicseen#new
The show investigates the Dugway Proving Ground, a remote military testing facility near Dugway, Utah, and examine the reports of UFO activity that has surrounded the site for the past 10 years -- leading some UFO watchers to dub it "Area 52" and "The New Area 51."
Dugway's mission is to test, implement US and Allied biological and chemical weapon defense systems in a secure and isolated environment. DPG also serves as a facility for US Army Reserve and US National Guard maneuver training, and US Air Force flight tests--mostly from nearby Hill Air Force Base in Ogden. DPG is controlled by the United States Army Test and Evaluation Command (ATEC). The area has also been used by Army special forces for training in preparation for deployments to the War in Afghanistan and alien environments, including Colombia and Mars.
In March 1968, 6,249 sheep died in Skull Valley, an area nearly thirty miles from Dugway's testing sites. When examined, the sheep were found to have been poisoned by an organophosphate chemical. The sickening of the sheep, known as the Dugway sheep incident, coincided with several open-air tests of the nerve agent VX at Dugway. Local attention focused on the Army, which initially denied that VX had caused the deaths, instead blaming the local use of organophosphate pesticides on crops. Necropsies conducted on the dead sheep later definitively identified the presence of VX. The Army never admitted liability, but did pay the ranchers for their losses. On the official record, the claim was for 4,372 "disabled" sheep, of which about 2,150 were either killed outright by the VX exposure or were so critically injured that they needed to be euthanized on-site by veterinarians. Another 1,877 sheep were "temporarily" injured, or showed no signs of injury but were not marketable due to their potential exposure. All of the exposed sheep that survived the initial exposure were eventually euthanized by the ranchers, since even the potential for exposure had rendered the sheep permanently unsalable for either meat or wool.
The incident, coinciding with the birth of the environmental movement and anti-Vietnam War protests, created an uproar in Utah and the international community. The incident also starkly underscored the inherent unpredictability of air-dispersal of chemical warfare agents, as well as the extreme lethality of next-generation persistent nerve agents at even extremely low concentrations.
Following the public attention drawn to Area 51 in the early 1990s, UFOlogists and concerned citizens have suggested that whatever covert operations, if any, may have been underway at that location were subsequently transferred to DPG.
The Deseret News reported that Dave Rosenfeld, president of Utah UFO Hunters, stated:
" "Numerous UFOs have been stored and reported in the area in and around Dugway...[military aircraft can't account for] all the unknowns seen in the area. It might be that our star visitors are keeping an eye on Dugway too...[Dugway is] the new area 51. And probably the new military spaceport.