I have thought long and hard about this topic, and from just about every conceivable angle. Setting aside the theological reasons (which are many and varied), I want to go straight to the heart of the matter:
When I think of all the wondrous minds, talents and lives that have graced this planet, and how soon they are forgotten in the sands of time, I simply refuse to believe that this is their ultimate fate. I refuse to believe that my mother, who was for all intents and purposes, one of the most loving and patient people I will ever have the pleasure of knowing in this life, is simply gone, all that wisdom, talent, the uniqueness of her life experiences that molded her into who she ultimately became -- the universe would be wasting massive amounts of awesome to just eradicate people from any level of existence.
Even if you don't believe in a sentient god or think that god is just natural forces--- i would still exclaim the same-- we have conservation of energy-- and I'm convinced we have conservation of awesome.
This is my firm and unrelenting answer to atheism
Is that really related to atheism? ???
Quote from: ArMaP on July 14, 2013, 12:41:29 AM
Is that really related to atheism? ???
it covers the main theme of atheism == that we are just dirt blobs that managed, thru evolution, to lumber about and accidentally understand things, after which point we become dirt again and that's it. i call it the nothing. the nothing is not
good. the nothing is the absence of everything. i don't believe the nothing exists. hehe
Actually reincarnation covers it better AND explains why some people are born with built in skills they retain from a previous life :D
No God required... just as you say the Conservation of Energy in this case the Life Force
And when we reach that state of ascension and become beings of light and energy... maybe WE become those Plasma Critters :P
(http://dailyoffice.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/ascension-juancarlosgarcia.jpg)
Quote from: undo11 on July 14, 2013, 01:35:51 AM
the nothing is the absence of everything. i don't believe the nothing exists. hehe
But not believing CREATES the nothing :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-5QTdC7hOo
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth;
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son Our Lord,
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again from the dead;
He ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.
Amen.
This is my spiritual self. Maybe not yours, but mine.
Peace to you and yours
Rock.
Quote from: zorgon on July 14, 2013, 02:01:20 AM
But not believing CREATES the nothing :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-5QTdC7hOo
not believing in the everything, creates the nothing.
i believe in the everything, not the nothing. hehe
ill stick with reincarnation because ive seen too much on a first person bases.
living in a small tightknit community.its easy to see.
i think some come back as animals though.not any hard evidence on that.just theory on the animal part.
there is no hard proof god exist.sounds like a new government program?
i do believe there is something just dont know what "it" is.unless its me in a future existence with time travel abilities.in which case .i apologize for screwing everybodies life up.im still learning.
Quote from: robomont on July 14, 2013, 02:51:30 AM
ill stick with reincarnation because ive seen too much on a first person bases.
living in a small tightknit community.its easy to see.
i think some come back as animals though.not any hard evidence on that.just theory on the animal part.
there is no hard proof god exist.sounds like a new government program?
i do believe there is something just dont know what "it" is.unless its me in a future existence with time travel abilities.in which case .i apologize for screwing everybodies life up.im still learning.
i have a theory that we humans are quantumly entangled to our eternal bodies, and our junk dna is our book of life - like a library that contains everything about us, including each respiration, how many hairs on our heads and so on, that records all our life experiences and it is quantumly entangled with our eternal bodies as well. when we pass on, we are then in our eternal bodies, with our life info and direct access to the big library. the big library contains everything you ever needed to know and as a result, reincarnation is not necessary. :D
Quote from: undo11 on July 14, 2013, 02:57:02 AM
i have a theory that we humans are quantumly entangled to our eternal bodies, and our junk dna is our book of life - like a library that contains everything about us, including each respiration, how many hairs on our heads and so on, that records all our life experiences and it is quantumly entangled with our eternal bodies as well. when we pass on, we are then in our eternal bodies, with our life info and direct access to the big library. the big library contains everything you ever needed to know and as a result, reincarnation is not necessary. :D
OK, where does atheism enter in that theory? ???
Although I don't believe (yes, it's a belief) that there aren't any gods, because I don't see nature needing them, I don't have any thing against the possibility of eternal bodies and things like that.
I believe in reincarnation, But the "WHY" is the big question....Is it simply spiritual evolution. If so why the "Veil of darkness"..Even children need awareness of past errors to learn from their mistakes. Some people suggest that the Veil was not imposed by the All Source, but is imposed by ourselves and is illusionary in the 3D world. Here is an interesting artice.
http://www.vigilantforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1389&mobile=on (http://www.vigilantforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1389&mobile=on)
ACIM'S take on Reincarnation is interesting..That it doesn't exist because time is an illusion....There is no past life, because there is no past..
Andy
Andy
"Atheism" is the Christian's way of nicely stereotyping those they see as 'In trouble' or 'Undesirable' because their lack of 'Acceptance' of a mind set or invisible entity.
Atheism is not a word, it is a category of people. Of which I am part of. Has nothing too do with the 'After we are gone from here' perception at all, it is all about defining one's personal interpretations as unacceptable in a world of religious believer's.
For the most part, this leave's much more awareness of my account-abilities with no one else to hold the responsibilities of my actions, thoughts or words. It is a form of an awaking for self acknowledged responsibility, and leaves no one else to hold the burden other than one's self for not knowing better, even though the action's me be acknowledged wrong by societal acceptances.
Atheism is for the Christianity Dictionary for "Racist" or "Undesirable's" and that is all it is.
For if someone judges me for being as such, doesn't this give me the right to judge them as well? You know 'Eye for and eye' or is it 'turn the other cheek'? either way, it is humorous listening to people defend their personal belief systems, because of all the Atheists I know, we have never had one disagreement within such topical discussions as to the "God is of the mind" kind of interpretation. Cut & Dry, we are all energy, and we to transgress from one energy to another, but it isn't an almighty Omnipresent entity doing this, this is 'Energy' being reconfigured too yet another form of energy.
1WW
Well undo, an interesting proposition - the answer to atheism. Of course, and as you well know, the "true answer" to atheism has been presented for all of man, as Rock succinctly outlined above. And the "proof" of that has been proffered by God, in the testimony by men about God, for all to see and hear about that Answer, in the book called The Bible.
But.......at this time, and for reason, that "Answer" can only be accepted on the basis of "faith". As robomont stated above, he is looking for "hard proof", as is much of the "unbelieving world". But the simplicity of what is presented in The Bible is there for anyone who actually desires to find God, and the "hard proof" of His Answer.
You know undo, in a world of "thought", atheism is a funny thing of paradox. The Atheism "belief" actually proves that God exists, because God is the basis upon which atheism is birthed - the denying that no God exists. Without a true God, there would be no basis for anyone to say "I don't believe in God", or saying, "I don't believe there is a God!
Of course, the revelation (HARD PHYSICAL PROOF) of the Answer will be made to all of man, at a prescribed point in time..............which will certainly put an end atheism, and time will be no more. :)
Quote from: rdunk on July 14, 2013, 05:27:03 PM
The Atheism "belief" actually proves that God exists, because God is the basis upon which atheism is birthed - the denying that no God exists. Without a true God, there would be no basis for anyone to say "I don't believe in God", or saying, "I don't believe there is a God!
The real existence of something is irrelevant for someone believing in it or not.
If I say that I have a green cat, would you believed it? If you didn't, did that mean that there are green cats?
PS: I do not have a cat. :(
im so tempted to start a thread.if you dont believe in green cats then your gonna burn in hell.bow to the almighty green cat.
Gold for that, robo!
You, too, ArMaP. Good point about believing in green cats...
Quote from: ArMaP on July 14, 2013, 06:13:01 PM
The real existence of something is irrelevant for someone believing in it or not.
If I say that I have a green cat, would you believed it? If you didn't, did that mean that there are green cats?
PS: I do not have a cat. :(
armap, that is nearly funny, as far as the green cat is concerned. But on the serious side of things, which is about an an Answer to atheism".....................having faith in God, or not believing there is a god, is the crux of life for all humanity. Man is certainly free to believe whatsoever he/she thinks as his or her "reality", and that thinking will determine all things for each of us.
armap, you tell me you have a green cat, I would have no reason to not believe you. But, whether or not I accept what you say is true, the fact of the matter makes no eternal difference. If you say the cat is green, quacks like a duck, but doesn't have webbed feet, the same thought would apply.
But, when the scripture says in Numbers 22:28, "And Jehovah openeth the mouth of the ass, and she saith to Balaam, `What have I done to thee that thou hast smitten me these three times?'", my belief in that as fact is absolute, and without question.
Already, we know of gray cats, white cats, black cats, stripped cats, orange cats, calico cats, assorted color cats, and etc. BUT, I only know of one ass that is presented as having actually spoken to a man, and that was Balaam's ass..
Now, on the lighter side armap, here is a link that just might give some credibility to your statement, if you actually have, or have ever thought about having, a real "green cat"
http://messybeast.com/green-cat/green-genes.htm
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Bluebird/cat_guitar.gif)
Quote from: andolin on July 14, 2013, 05:03:49 PM
ACIM'S take on Reincarnation is interesting..That it doesn't exist because time is an illusion....There is no past life, because there is no past..
Andy
Andy
interesting, interesting. the illusionary nature of time makes things seem to be what they are not. for example, tmt's continued references to the body being a dead thing. corruptibility is an aspect of time. everything around us, has a shelf life, an expiration date -- a feature of time. if time is irrelevant, we are already dead because we, that is our flesh, has a shelf life.
Quote from: robomont on July 14, 2013, 02:51:30 AM
ill stick with reincarnation because ive seen too much on a first person bases.
living in a small tightknit community.its easy to see.
I am in my 8th and I recall many things from 2. I have also run into strangers that I instinctively knew... John used to think it was not true, but since he talked to sleeper he too know understands. Sleeper via Milton the aliens, has told John that this is his last cycle on Earth.
In Tibetan belief, also reflected in Rosicrucian and other esoteric teachings, life cycles follow numerology and thus work in nines. If that does hold true, I have one more cycle to go on Earth
You have all hard that cats have nine lives... Tibetans believe that cats are watching over us :D The Egyptians also worshiped cats. It is all connected, no matter what one believes. That is why a person's religion is irrelevant... because in the end when the body takes that final breathe... we will KNOW.
If we are not but food for worms, it will be a moot point, end of line. But if there is more all that matters is how you lived your life... and can you look in the mirror and say "I did no evil"
Quotei think some come back as animals though.not any hard evidence on that.just theory on the animal part.
" hard evidence" is a tricky thing. Depends where you look. In most reincarnation doctrines you cannot go backwards. You can repeat a cycle if you screwed up (Hitler is going to be doing a LOT of do overs... Karma is a real bitch :P ) but you cannot go down the food chain as it were. Even science agrees that we were once microbes that lived in the see until one fish crawled out onto the land. That is why we still have gills when in the womb :D
But anyone who says animals don't have a soul has never owned FERRETS :D When we lost our little thief, Smokey was holding her on the last night.... then she just went to sleep...
Quotethere is no hard proof god exist.sounds like a new government program?
Well the problem here is that those that believe in a God can usually not be shaken by logic... yet there are so many Gods or versions of God that it is not only confusing, but they kill each other over which version is right
ALL of the main religions say killing is BAD, yet they all have killed the other guy for not believing. So the age old question is WHICH GOD is the one true god? Most Christians will deny that Jews and Muslim worship the same god, while Muslim will say Allah controls everything. Jews are a little more open. Yet at the top level the three Abrahamic sects do agree they worship the same guy...
So why not come out publicly and say so? Stop the wars?
And if there is only one true "Word of God" why do we have so many splinter groups in all those religions? IF there is a God there can only be ONE... there can only be ONE true "Word of God" Yet I can list you thousands of versions all claiming to be the RIGHT version and you must believe or go straight to hell, don't pass go, don't collect $200.00
Quotei do believe there is something just dont know what "it" is.unless its me in a future existence with time travel abilities.in which case .i apologize for screwing everybodies life up.im still learning.
Just call it "The Force" :P In the end that is probably the closest to the truth. YODA made one statement... it is the most powerful line written in that movie...
"...For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."
Basically it is our life force... every living creature has it and the fact that energy cannot be destroyed only changed should tell you that this is true. The Universe is 90% plasma energy. a constant life force that creates new planets. Blackholes were once thought to destroy everything, but today we know that 'new' energy streams out of the poles starting the process all over.
I don't care what religion you are, which gods you worship. So long as it works FOR YOU... I KNOW 1005 FOR CERTAIN that when we die, that will be the moment of truth, so until then what does it matter whose religion is right?
What gets my dander up is THUMPERS Those that have the need to push their version down other peoples throat.
Keep your god to yourself.... I already found mine... I don't need to be saved.
It is fine and dandy to discuss ones beliefs... that is what humans do
It is fine and dandy to show your path to others that are still seeking their own path...
But it is not fine to insist that your path is the ONLY path and try to force it on others
90% of the worlds war (if not all) are because someone is trying to force their will on you
"A Thousand Monks, A Thousand religions" That is the creedo I live by. Each is on their own path. Ask me and I will show you mine. Need help I will point you in the right direction according to me...
But no preaching :P
Quote from: zorgon on July 15, 2013, 12:19:50 AM
In Tibetan belief, also reflected in Rosicrucian and other esoteric teachings, life cycles follow numerology and thus work in nines. If that does hold true, I have one more cycle to go on Earth
And, apparently, on a decimal base. :)
QuoteYou have all hard that cats have nine lives...
That's a cultural thing, in Portugal we say that cats have seven lives, not nine.
QuoteThat is why a person's religion is irrelevant... because in the end when the body takes that final breathe... we will KNOW.
Or not. :)
QuoteIf we are not but food for worms, it will be a moot point, end of line. But if there is more all that matters is how you lived your life... and can you look in the mirror and say "I did no evil"
I think that, even if we are just food for worms (and there's nothing wrong in being food for worms, worms need food too :) ), all that matters is how you lived your life.
It seems the cycle must endlessly repeat itself... for those of you with religious beliefs, go see the correct medical personnel and have a death experience; not near death, but experience death itself... I do not quantify mine as being near death, for I was legally dead for 33 minutes, was being prepped to go to the morgue when my heart started beating again...
time is an aspect of this side of the veil; on the other side you can grasp everything from the beginning to the end at once, even see where you are at on the journey, can feel the force as Z says, for you do feel connected to all things,realize that everything is ONE, for the sum total of all the parts makes up the whole, just as your meatsuit is composed of billions of cells, separate yet connected to make one complete you; it does not matter what anyone believes, it is all about how you live your life and the experiences...
tis simple, really, can be summed up easily; I am a spiritual being having a human experience, not a human having a spiritual experience...
dead men tell no tales unless they come back with memories of the other side and choose to share with those having doubts or questions...
seeker
Quote from: undo11 on July 15, 2013, 12:15:36 AM
interesting, interesting. the illusionary nature of time makes things seem to be what they are not. for example, tmt's continued references to the body being a dead thing. corruptibility is an aspect of time. everything around us, has a shelf life, an expiration date -- a feature of time. if time is irrelevant, we are already dead because we, that is our flesh, has a shelf life.
I don't know that that is entirely true. There are animals and plants that seem to have no decay mechanism or are so ancient none can be sure just how old they really are.
So it is conceivable that the decay mechanism can be turned off. And maybe that's the point of the game, the past being the back story and here We are with the possibility of a choice to live forever...
Life is, after all, just the ultimate WoW, eh? [smile]
Quote from: ArMaP on July 15, 2013, 01:33:36 AM
And, apparently, on a decimal base. :)
Well Numerology works on a slightly different system
Take my name for example... Ronald Schmidt (no initial)
---->965134 1384942 = 28, 31 = 10, 4 = 5
So my 'number' as it were is 5
IF that had come out to an 11, 22 or 33 those are master numbers and would not be reduced. (hence the 33 degrees in Masonic and other esoteric groups)
With the numbers generated from your birth name, date of birth and location of birth many tings can be revealed. Takes to long to do a workup on one person though I used to do it many years ago. Problem was people got freaked out how accurate it was about them and spooked them :P
If I can find the guidelines online I will make a thread or maybe scan the parts from the book
(http://power-of-numbers.96network.com/images/pythagoreantable.jpg)
QuoteThat's a cultural thing, in Portugal we say that cats have seven lives, not nine.
Then in Portugal you have your math wrong :P
QuoteI think that, even if we are just food for worms (and there's nothing wrong in being food for worms, worms need food too :) ), all that matters is how you lived your life.
Well if you live a good life your flesh might be more tasty to the worms :D But yes after all is said and done... it IS how you lived it that counts
Interesting, z. My name reduces to 11.
As our understanding of reality continues to shift and expand, I think the perspective of Atheism will have to, as well.
I personally believe that the fruit of what we currently call Atheism, has yet to fully mature. Science will continue to learn about quantum mechanics, and as it does so, it will gradually be compelled to admit the existence of acorporeal reality. Pure Cartesian materialism will become obsolete.
In such an environment, the definition of Atheism will change; from a disbelief in acorporeal reality in general, to a disbelief in specific, individual deities as they have traditionally been defined.
Numerology is very interesting, but as Z says charting can be intimidating.
Nowadays there are professional software packages to calculate the base numbers and life paths ect...
My destiny (Name) number is 9, BTW.
Here is a link for more info and one of the better Software packages.
Decoz master numerology package is popular.
Decoz is a fan of the pythagorean system...
There are also some less extensive freeware programs out there
http://www.decoz.com/pythagoras.htm (http://www.decoz.com/pythagoras.htm)
Andy
Quote from: zorgon on July 15, 2013, 03:32:59 AM
Well Numerology works on a slightly different system
Take my name for example... Ronald Schmidt (no initial)
---->965134 1384942 = 28, 31 = 10, 4 = 5
That sure looks like decimal.
QuoteThen in Portugal you have your math wrong :P
Or second hand cats. ;D
Quote from: petrus4 on July 15, 2013, 08:55:14 AM
In such an environment, the definition of Atheism will change; from a disbelief in acorporeal reality in general, to a disbelief in specific, individual deities as they have traditionally been defined.
"Disbelief in acorporeal reality"? ???
No, just disbelief in the existence of god(s).
At least for me. :)
Quote from: ArMaP on July 15, 2013, 09:52:27 PM
That sure looks like decimal.
Or second hand cats. ;D
Actually, it's not. It is only nine numbers. Decimal requires a zero, making ten (and yes, I say zero IS a "number" by its very useful function in the whole system of...numbers).
Quote from: Amaterasu on July 16, 2013, 12:45:51 AM
Actually, it's not. It is only nine numbers. Decimal requires a zero, making ten (and yes, I say zero IS a "number" by its very useful function in the whole system of...numbers).
Yes, I know that the 0 is missing, but is it a base 10 or a base 9 system?
PS: I have been calling it decimal because I couldn't remember the correct name. Now that I did, the name is, as posted above, "base 10 system".
Well, it looks like it's a combination of a "base 9 system" and a "base 10 system."
There is no zero in the chart - making it 9 symbols, thus base 9. But then, the further processing IS done with the zero. So... Base 9 to start, processed in base 10.