Pegasus Research Consortium

You are imperialists America.  What you going to do about it?

(http://media.mwcradio.com/mimesis/2013-09/24/2013-09-24T154624Z_1_CBRE98N17TJ00_RTROPTP_3_POLITICS-US-UN-OBAMA-SPEECH_JPG_475x310_q85.jpg)

In an address to the United Nations General Assembly, President Obama openly embraced an aggressive military doctrine backed by previous administrations on using armed force beyond the international norm of self-defence. Obama told the world that the United States is prepared to use its military to defend what he called "our core interests" in the Middle East: U.S. access to oil. "[Obama] basically came out and said the U.S. is an imperialist nation and we're going to do whatever we need to do to conquer areas [and] take resources from people around the world," says independent journalist Jeremy Scahill. "It's a really naked declaration of imperialism ... When we look back at Obama's legacy, this is going to have been a very significant period in U.S. history where the ideals of very radical right-wing forces were solidified. President Obama has been a forceful, fierce defender of empire."

SOURCE: http://www.democracynow.org/2013/9/25/the_empire_president_jeremy_scahill_on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjZDQtqNT5s

Do the American members care?  How do the foreign members feel about this.  What can Americans and the rest of us do about it?

I really want to hear some practical solutions folks.  What could we - the people - do about tackling imperialism?  Do you really want to get rid of the crooks who run your country or are you all talker who complain but do nothing?

I have suggestions - and I am offering them to any who will listen.

What do YOU suggest We do?

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 09, 2013, 07:08:36 PM
I have suggestions - and I am offering them to any who will listen.

What do YOU suggest We do?

You're the only person who has already answered this to some extent for me and I have some things I'd like to discuss with you.  I will chime in later with those views.  I want to hear what other members think first.  Especially what the American members think.

Does it not occur to the US members that all the enormous amounts of money spent on, "protecting citizens form terrorists," would not be needed were it not for these aggressive policies?

Does the lack of action from US citizens make them a legitimate target for foreigners who suffer at the hands of their aggressive imperialist rulers?

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 09, 2013, 07:08:36 PM
What do YOU suggest We do?

Support your local Sheriffs...

Sheriff Threatens Feds With SWAT Team

(http://rasica.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/montana-manhunt-v45vjjn-x-large.jpg?w=705)

U.S. Sheriffs Rise Up Against Federal Government: Sheriff Threatens Feds With SWAT Team ~ Grass Roots Take Charge! (http://politicalvelcraft.org/2011/11/14/u-s-sheriffs-rise-up-against-federal-government-sheriff-threatens-feds-with-swat-team/)

Quote from: Pimander on October 09, 2013, 06:47:34 PM
Do the American members care?  How do the foreign members feel about this.  what can Americans and the rest of us do about it?

I really want to hear some practical solutions folks.  What could we - the people - do about tackling imperialism?

How do I feel about it?  Bitter, cynical, and not surprised.  I've been watching the legless, mutilated corpse of the Jeffersonian Republic dragging itself along the ground, for 20 years now.  It desperately needs to be put out of its' misery; but unfortunately, nobody has either the ability or the will.

I can think of a couple of possible suggestions for starting to restrain the American government; however, they are primarily economic.  This is not a government that is going to be brought down via force of arms; either in foreign terms, or domestic.

The first, and most pressing issue, is to get the world off the petro-dollar.  America's entire economy is built out of thin air at this point; massive debt, which is only sustained on the promise of more oil and blood money.  The country hasn't had real (civilian, at least) manufacturing infrastructure since probably the early 90s; what wealth it has, comes from oil and redevelopment contracts in the Middle East.  Virtually every American flag is stitched with the words, "Made in China," and that is deeply symbolic.

Once we have a new reserve currency, however, the beast will start to become a lot more manageable, as its' capacity to continue to maintain and extend its' giant military will be greatly curtailed.

From there, we could either think about sanctions, or very simply have the Chinese President, if he is willing, call in America's Chinese debt.  That would put an end to the country literally overnight, without a shot needing to be fired.

In military terms, America is still going to be a problem for the foreseeable future, due to both its' nuclear assets and air power, if nothing else; but in purely infantry terms, the country is weakening.  The military death rate is higher from suicide at this point, than from active combat.  My generation are probably the softest in human history.  They do not have anything remotely resembling the stomach for war; and in the case of the American military, they have already been pushed past the point of endurance. 

From that point of view, it might be a good thing if the government actually did invade Iran or Syria; if it's focus could be kept on a single point for long enough, the military might finally bleed itself out, and we could eventually see a collapse.

As far as actually getting rid of the government is concerned, there is no solution.  The government is dug in very securely in domestic terms, at this point.  Even if it was able to gain political critical mass, everyone involved would very rapidly be exterminated, and the three letter agencies have become very effective at infiltrating any civilian organisation, in order to prevent a critical mass from occurring.  Waco marked the closing of the window of opportunity, for a successful second American revolution; and the specific purpose of the Department of Homeland Security, is counter-revolutionary.

The only real hope for America now, is for the disease to be allowed to run its' course.  Fascism has a lifecycle, as I have written here many, many times before.  Obama needs to open the camps.  At the moment, the American population is still full of government apologists and Good Germans; people who crave "protection," from the threats and bogeymen that the government itself has created.  So even if there was going to be a civil war, those wanting positive change, would first have to beat the collaborators into submission, before they could even start to focus on the government.

I want the camps to open, because the only thing that is going to awaken the government quislings, is for them to finally get a practical taste, of what fascism really means.  Once that happens, nobody in the population will support the government.  By then, of course, any successful revolt will be completely out of the question, but at least if any of the population somehow manages to survive, the incident will be remembered for the rest of America's history, and the country will finally come to understand exactly why war, fascism, and empire ultimately only end in death for all concerned.

Then you will have a truly positive society.  Then you will have self-management.  Then, finally, you will have freedom; and peace.

As more people became dissatisfied with federal government controls and land grabs, it was inevitable that local law enforcement would eventually see the bigger picture.

At the northern California fairgrounds of Yreka last month, seven California sheriffs and another from Oregon gathered with a large group of citizens to say that they are finally going to do something about it.

"A giant has been awakened," said Plumas County, Calif. Sheriff Greg Hagwood, "and they didn't count on that," speaking of the federal bureaucracy.

Nevada Sheriff Tony DeMeo Stops Federal Government: Feds Engaging In Illegal Confiscation Of Cattle And Water Rights Of County Property Owner.

Oregon Sheriff Gil Gilbertson Gives Federal Agents The Boot: Feds Have No Jurisdiction!
Dean Wilson, sheriff of Del Norte County (Sacramento), is a great example of this great awakening.

He received the loudest and longest applause  for his candor in confessing past faults after apologizing for not understanding the central government assault and land grab being committed against the people and what he should have been doing about it.

(http://rasica.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/nyecounty.jpg?w=705)

Nevada Sheriff Tony DeMeo's 'Swat Team' ~ Stops Federal Government: Feds Engaging In Illegal Confiscation Of Cattle And Water Rights Of County Property Owner.

QuoteIn this 3-part video interview with Tony DeMeo, Sheriff of Nye County, Nevada, he explains that he is a Constitutional Sheriff and that authority for public office holders is derived from the people.  He tells the story about how he used the Constitution as his foundation in the saga of Nye County rancher Wayne Hage's disputes over encroachments by the federal government.  While Wayne Hage's case centered around property rights in federally managed lands, Sheriff Tony DeMeo's example is relevant for everyone to understand the power of local government, the importance of following the Constitution and upholding the Tenth Amendment (states' rights and sovereignty).

http://politicalvelcraft.org/2011/10/19/nevada-sheriff-tony-demeo-stops-federal-agents-feds-engaging-in-illegal-confiscation-of-cattle-and-water-rights-of-county-property-owner/

Oregon Sheriff Gil Gilbertson Gives Federal Agents The Boot: Feds Have No Jurisdiction!

(http://rasica.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/gil-gilbertson-2.jpg?w=480&h=568)

QuoteIn this climate it is utterly unheard of to have any official stand against the federal government. Typically, they stand with them – their hand out for more federal grants – no matter how much the federal government violates the U.S. Constitution and infringes on the public. Thankfully there are those few who take their oaths of office and to the Constitution, with sincerity, and instead they choose to fight for the people; fight for what is true and just. They are people like Maricopa County, Arizona, Sheriff Joe Arpaio, those who sign up to become oath keepers, former Sheriff Richard Mack and, of course, Josephine County Sheriff Gil Gilbertson; whose own fight against a runaway, power-grabbing, forestry service is just the tip of an iceberg Gilbertson is hauling into warmer waters.

With the USFS closing roads on county public lands, enforcement officers overstepping their legal jurisdiction and tens of thousands of acres of the county's public land being usurped through the creation of national forests and monuments for the "protection" of the environment, Gilbertson is taking it on himself to protect the people – the ones often forgotten.

Montgomery County Sheriff's Office To Launch Drone: Texas Sheriff Gains Bird's-Eye View To Keep Check On Crimes By Federal, Domestic, Or Criminal Aliens!

When asked why he has taken up this fight, Sheriff Gilbertson said, "My duty lies in the oath that I took to protect and serve the people of Josephine County, state law and the Constitution, and their [federal government] agencies are infringing on all of the above. It's that simple.

http://politicalvelcraft.org/2011/10/19/oregon-sheriff-gil-gilbertson-gives-federal-agents-the-boot-feds-have-no-jurisdiction/

Quote from: zorgon on October 09, 2013, 07:23:59 PM
"A giant has been awakened," said Plumas County, Calif. Sheriff Greg Hagwood, "and they didn't count on that," speaking of the federal bureaucracy.

Nevada Sheriff Tony DeMeo Stops Federal Government: Feds Engaging In Illegal Confiscation Of Cattle And Water Rights Of County Property Owner.

Oregon Sheriff Gil Gilbertson Gives Federal Agents The Boot: Feds Have No Jurisdiction!
Dean Wilson, sheriff of Del Norte County (Sacramento), is a great example of this great awakening.

This is, perhaps, encouraging.  We'll see.

Petrus, I understand how you see America as part of the problem.  I see America (and Britain, Japan and Western Europe) as part of the problem.  In my opinion though, your view is not balanced.

Britain, USA and a few other nations do have personal freedoms and still have parliaments where it is, in theory at least, possible to take office.  Yes, those freedoms are often wrongly taken away "in defence of democracy" or "to protect citizens from terror".  However, in many countries I'd be locked up for typing and publishing what I am here.

How many countries are you likely to see local sheriffs standing up to their government.  USA.  France.  Britain in the form of Labour Unions.  Where else?  Not many places.

The solution has to take advantage of those places where the right to act in opposition to a demented regiment and system is enshrined in law or in constitution.  I don't know what the laws are in Australia on these matters but in the UK and USA there is hope.


Zorgon, I'm glad that the folks there are standing up to the bullies who run the country.  Will it be enough, or is there more we can do?  I think there is.

Quote from: Pimander on October 09, 2013, 07:41:21 PM
Zorgon, I'm glad that the folks there are standing up to the bullies who run the country.  Will it be enough, or is there more we can do?  I think there is.

yes it will be enough...

You are forgetting the main issue...

The majority of people are not worried about it yet. We are at the top of the crap because we are a conspiracy site and actively looking for stuff like this...

But look around the web... most of the stuff posted is FALSE NEWS and FEAR MONGERING that the average public is just not paying attention to.

When things get worse, "We the People..." will rise. Gun sales and permits in the USA are at record levels... the American people are 'arming up'

Don't forget that during the American Revolution only 20 PERCENT took up arms to win the day

The fact that the local Sheriffs are PUBLICLY stating they will support the Constitution is a RALLY point for many (Jack Arneson for one :D)

It means there is someone with the power to protect that you can count on.

Wait till the Military steps up to the plate. There are MILLIONS of Vets and active duty military that won't stay silent if push comes to shove.....

But ya know... with all the hype about Obamacare for example... I have been looking at it carefully and it doesn't look that bad... For a MAXIMUM of $1,608.45 I will be able to get medical coverage that covers 90% of the expenses for ONE YEAR for my family of 3... and since large corporations will be forced to pay on behalf of employees it may even be less when the dust settles...

So if you take the time to look at things without the noise... sometimes you see that its not all gloom and doom :D

Also remember WWII

The USA fought HARD to stay out of it beyond moral and equipment support...


But when the Japs bombed Pearl Harbor... the Sleeping Giant woke up and look what happened :D

Quote from: Pimander on October 09, 2013, 07:41:21 PM
Britain, USA and a few other nations do have personal freedoms and still have parliaments where it is, in theory at least, possible to take office.  Yes, those freedoms are often wrongly taken away "in defence of democracy" or "to protect citizens from terror".  However, in many countries I'd be locked up for typing and publishing what I am here.

Granted.  If the American government was truly out of control at this point, I probably already would have experienced special rendition for some of what I've written online.  They can't, however, accuse me of trying to encourage their public to revolt, because I don't.  I actively discourage Americans from trying to rebel against the government at this point, because I know what would happen to them if they tried.

QuoteThe solution has to take advantage of those places where the right to act in opposition to a demented regiment and system is enshrined in law or in constitution.  I don't know what the laws are in Australia on these matters but in the UK and USA there is hope.

Australia does not matter, and that is why I have not spent two decades focusing on its' politics.  Australia is also, at this point, very largely an American client state; which further means that even if I was directly concerned about Australia's internal political problems, (which I am not) then focusing on America would still be the more appropriate place to put my attention. 

Australia has less practical independence from America, however, than most other countries in the world that I have seen.  It might be unofficial, but if there is a 51st state, we pretty much are it.

I will agree with you, that it of course is much more desirable to see a peaceful and democratic solution to this mess.  Of course it is.  The question, however, is whether or not the government will allow it, and I do not believe that it will.  Yes, you might still be able to speak your mind on the Internet; but I think that is precisely because the government is very shrewd about knowing which rights to leave to the people, that allow said people to think that they are still free, while at the same time, not really harming said government.

Obama does not want to be seen as a dictator.  He does not want his government to be compared with the Nazis.  He wants people to still believe that they are free, and to be able to give his usual utopian speeches and have everyone applaud him.

So you can say whatever you like, and you probably will not lose that.  The government knows that the way to stop speech, is not to prevent its' expression, but simply to make sure that the public are too apathetic, distracted, or selfish, in order to listen.

The real test comes, when you decide to act.  That is when people find out how free they truly are.

Quote from: zorgon on October 09, 2013, 08:02:25 PM
Also remember WWII

The USA fought HARD to stay out of it beyond moral and equipment support...


But when the Japs bombed Pearl Harbor... the Sleeping Giant woke up and look what happened :D

Shoulder to shoulder. Have we ever let you guys down since that day?

Quote from: zorgon on October 09, 2013, 08:00:42 PM
When things get worse, "We the People..." will rise. Gun sales and permits in the USA are at record levels... the American people are 'arming up'

The problem is that there is a good probability of those guns, if used by "the people", end up being used against other members of "the people".

First they need to understand that they are all on the same side, and that's where I see the biggest problems.

Quote from: zorgon on October 09, 2013, 08:02:25 PM
But when the Japs bombed Pearl Harbor... the Sleeping Giant woke up and look what happened :D

According to some people, that bombing was allowed to happen so it could be used as an excuse to enter the war. :)

Quote from: ArMaP on October 09, 2013, 09:19:49 PM
According to some people, that bombing was allowed to happen so it could be used as an excuse to enter the war. :)

On the other hand, what would be left of Europe if Germany and Britain had completely ground each other to dust?  If Germany won, there would have been Russian and Western European terrorists and a Fascist European Union, possibly followed y a nuclear war with USA.

It was allowed to happen as an excuse to bring USA into the war.  Is it a bad thing that it was?

Quote from: Pimander on October 09, 2013, 09:32:07 PM
... and a Fascist European Union, ...

Hate to break it to You but the EU's purpose was to eventually add it in under a fascist NWO...along with other economic unions.

QuoteFrom there, we could either think about sanctions, or very simply have the Chinese President, if he is willing, call in America's Chinese debt.  That would put an end to the country literally overnight, without a shot needing to be fired.

THAT sounds more like the old Petrus ;D

Her Majesty's gubmint will gladly send a few thousand Marines to 'liberate' you guys, like we did before, but you might be jumping from the pan into the fire, as i recall you kicked us out last time :P

Yes the foreign debt can halt this scary machine overnight, but it will mean widespread misery as well...
What you need to do is halve your enrgy usage, while at the same time switch to other sources.
The CFR knew way back then that the US will be heavily dependant on oil, and would ned to fight, yes & even invade other countries, to get it.
They knew it back then, & they let it happen. Why? vested interests of course.

If you guys could just shed those leeches on your backs, get truly independent & free, you would be one step closer to that utopia the founders had in mind.

QuoteYes, you might still be able to speak your mind on the Internet; but I think that is precisely because the government is very shrewd about knowing which rights to leave to the people, that allow said people to think that they are still free, while at the same time, not really harming said government.

Yes, they have got that down to a fine art here in Europe, sneaky bar-stewards.
But we are also a sleeping giant that will soon awake, once the chaos in the US happens here as well...

Good cops, very rare & worth their weight in gold when the brown stuff hapens :)
The vets are important too they won't just sit there & take it.

Over here we are not allowed guns, so it will be pitchforks, big sticks & fisticuffs, like the middle ages ::)
Much more civilised, IMHO, not a drone in sight :P

Go for it, our cousins across the pond :D

Quote from: Pimander on October 09, 2013, 09:32:07 PM
It was allowed to happen as an excuse to bring USA into the war.  Is it a bad thing that it was?

I didn't say it was a bad thing, but it wasn't really a case of "the Sleeping Giant waking up". :)

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 09, 2013, 10:04:55 PM
Hate to break it to You but the EU's purpose was to eventually add it in under a fascist NWO...along with other economic unions.

And I suppose they are also hiding the free energy.  :P

Quote from: ArMaP on October 09, 2013, 10:08:15 PM
And I suppose they are also hiding the free energy.  :P

Yes.  And have been avidly doing so.  If *I* was a gazillionaire, with the power to have My bidding done by virtue of those gazillions, I would be protecting the hell out of the perception that the system that supports those gazillions remained in place.  Wouldn't You?

Believe Me, the "elite" know full well the intimate relationship money and energy have, and free energy for all means no need for the system supporting the gazillions.  So, not only do They hide free energy, since They're psychopaths, too, They will do ANYTHING to keep Their place at the top of the heap.

P
Nice thread.

Z

Sounds like you are turning into an advicate for obama care.

I will tell you what has happened to my insurance because of it. First my weekly payment will double next year. I think I have pretty good insurance. Currently for a family of four I only pay 37$ per weekfor an 80 /20 coverage. It is going up to 73$ per week with a 70/30 coverage with a higher deductable plus co pay.

The real kicker is my co has started a "wellness clinic" If I do not give them my medical history and go down and take there test it will jump to 277$ per month to keep insurance with the co.

Does this bring alarms to anyone besides me?

I will gather my thoughts and reply later to the OP

sorry fory getting off topic
Bless
Back

wellness clinic.lol.
just more big insurance corp.trying to manage your life.
bow to the paycheck.selling ones soul.imho.

how to end the imperialism ?
ive known for years now that this is a resources war.china is already in africa.built an interstate highway through africa just to get at its resources.china is using peaceful means while the usa uses africon.
as far as im concerned i hope gov is shut down.my state texas can cover its own bills and would pick up the social programs easily.
plus we could guard our southern border in a real way.i think we should only elect tea partiers.plus devaluation and collapse of the dollar would bring these poweful to their knees.

Quotetalker who complain but do nothing

This is me for the moment.....Little on the complain, I could help the Locals pick out good spots to sieze when the default come through.Just the simple idea that the fed is in power is enough. If they don't kick them out for good, nothing will ever change no matter who does what. They will just make more money from both sides My guess is that it neds to fall and see what happens.

The road will be very shakey but as long as there is a strong state government, we can do without the pests in DC. I also think something will happen very soon that will distract the public. Like another 912 or war somewhere. They always play this card. Hey look here, forget there..If the troops start to ship out in numbers then something will happen at home. Gotto send them away so they can't help at home. Maybe invade Portugal. Yea, That big rock needs redecorating with some drome hits. Get it out of the way to open the med for more oil traffic.

Durring war the Pres has more power.....

Quote from: ArMaP on October 09, 2013, 09:19:49 PM
According to some people, that bombing was allowed to happen so it could be used as an excuse to enter the war. :)

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." Admiral Isoroku ...

Quote from: Back on October 09, 2013, 11:00:49 PM
Does this bring alarms to anyone besides me?

Yes, me for one. The implications for this new TAX are far reaching,
certain that we dont know everything yet. However, the facts
are weighing in, looking like this is a direct hit to our medical
history being available to the IRS, CISS (LE aka Law Enforcement),
Fusion Centers, etc. It is a can of worms, I suppose ineveitable
but nonetheless very unpleasant, and unconstitutional.

Not to mention that reports are flowing in for those that have
to provide credit reports to finish the deal, and those who
have poor credit will pay more, for insurance?

Obamacare is like finding a veteran on the roadside wounded
by war, robbed of his savings by rich bankers, then take him
and break his arms, legs and knees....all the while reasoning
that this is for the better, as he was out of commission anyways.

Yeah, call me a skeptic, this ACA was designed to break the
back of private practice.

Quote from: Back on October 09, 2013, 11:00:49 PM
Sounds like you are turning into an advicate for obama care.

No but...

...since I have no health care at all right now, and I need to see a doctor about several pre existing conditions. I am going to see where it goes before shooting it down :D

One thing is certain... what you hear on the internet and what the reality is are usually far apart and the truth is generally somewhere in the middle.

We will be contacting the Nevada office next week to see exactly where it stands for us personally and I will report back :D  They are saying in Nevada that if registered by Dec 15th I can go get a doctor by Jan 01 2014

So far best as I can calculate our max would be 1600.00 for the year, but will wait to see if that takes into account other matters.

QuoteI will tell you what has happened to my insurance because of it. First my weekly payment will double next year. I think I have pretty good insurance. Currently for a family of four I only pay 37$ per weekfor an 80 /20 coverage. It is going up to 73$ per week with a 70/30 coverage with a higher deductable plus co pay.

The real kicker is my co has started a "wellness clinic" If I do not give them my medical history and go down and take there test it will jump to 277$ per month to keep insurance with the co.

Does this bring alarms to anyone besides me?

$37 a week for 4 is unbelievable...  :o

But I would wait and see where all this goes before hitting the panic button.  The biggest thing that will happen at the beginning is panic...  The existing companies are not supposed to be able to jack up rates.

Its a mess at best... but SOMETHING has to happen.

The way I look at it right now we have NOTHING... so I would be a fool to not pay attention and see where this all leads.

I doubt they will toss anyone in jail for not paying fines :D  In fact they already said they would wave fines for those who cannot pay...

Back when I was working for the Union doing convention work we had great coverage. But that didn't come out of our paycheck, but rather the contractor had to pay it on TOP of our pay... The plan is supposed to work the same for big corporations...  will have to wait and see.  If that is true, then my wife and daughter will get coverage that way and I am 3 years away from Medicare :D

What is going to cause issues is the amount of money that the Feds will be forking over to cover the rest (my share $1600... theirs $14,000)  But then they lose TRILLIONS every year so they have lots of cash :D

Wait and see... that is about all we can do until they settle down

Quote from: burntheships on October 10, 2013, 05:02:28 AM
Yeah, call me a skeptic, this ACA was designed to break the
back of private practice.

Obama may be Evil but private practice has been gouging the system for a long time :P

Have a foot doctor down the street.  When I had Union coverage the charge for wrapping my legs was $230.00 per leg... wrap and bandage extra $20.00 co-pay

When I went in last week to have it done because of open ulcers... I was expecting a big bill... Charge for paying CASH was.... $66.00 for BOTH legs including bandage and wrap... $40.00 for doing just one.

Quote from: Back on October 09, 2013, 11:00:49 PM
sorry fory getting off topic

No worries  I will move these posts to the Obamacare thread :D

Quote from: zorgon on October 10, 2013, 05:07:38 AM

Wait and see... that is about all we can do until they settle down

True enough, I have talked with several doctors, and those
in offices...let it settle down, or as was said to me, let it crash.
While the dust settles, I will take a pragmatic approach.
Keeping in mind the U.S. already has Medicare, and I think
some states ( CA ) Medicaid.

**** In General.....

In the mean time, if it is affordable for some, I say great.

For those who already had plans, this is the splinter in the craw,
those plans have to change to measure up to a "standard", which
ALL insurance companies must comply, and therefore use it to
raise premiums, sometimes as high as 3 times. That is not a
factoid reported on Before Its News, that is a verified reality
for several people I know. I had private insurance, when Obamacare
became law, for NO reason my premium doubled. I cancelled it,
knowing exactly what was going on, then getting a quote for
the actual policly that complies, sorry to say it is over triple
the price I was paying, and I have NO pre existing conditions,
and good credit.

And for the young people, those who are healthy they have also
seen premiums up over twice as much, Obama admitted as much
they need the young to pay, its not unlike Social Security.

All this said, each individual should do what benefits them
the most, and let the chips fall where they may....as there
will be no stopping the chips from falling.

Just my 2 cents.  :) :o

agreed zorgon but i tried a sight the otherday and it started with alaska and i had to scroll.phone locked up.before i even got off the alaska programs.gonna wait and see.

QuoteTHAT sounds more like the old Petrus ;D

I recited the Devi Kavacam earlier; I am feeling better now.  I haven't done real sadhana for at least a year now, and psychologically, that is probably my biggest problem at the moment.  I really need to start practicing again.  It keeps me sane, when virtually nothing else does.

Quote from: PlaysWithMachines on October 09, 2013, 10:06:56 PM
Her Majesty's gubmint will gladly send a few thousand Marines to 'liberate' you guys, like we did before, but you might be jumping from the pan into the fire, as i recall you kicked us out last time :P

If any country militarily intervenes on behalf of the American public, it will be Russia; and the government has known that for a long time.  The Americans on this forum should probably work on developing a more positive opinion of Vladimir Putin, if they don't like him already; because if it comes down to the wire to the degree that I am expecting to, he will end up being your saviour.

England is as much under the control of the Eye as America herself, at the moment.  The contemporary axis of evil is America, England, and Australia.

QuoteThe CFR knew way back then that the US will be heavily dependant on oil, and would ned to fight, yes & even invade other countries, to get it.
They knew it back then, & they let it happen. Why? vested interests of course.

The CFR are one of the Eye's front groups.  Always have been.

QuoteIf you guys could just shed those leeches on your backs, get truly independent & free, you would be one step closer to that utopia the founders had in mind.

There will be no just society, for as long as there is continental (or larger) scale federalism.  To the extent that nation states exist at all, they need to be extremely small, with a maximum population of around 2,000 people.  We need a very large number of micronations.  "Balkanisation," needs to cease being a dirty word.

If nuclear weapons are stated as the reason why we can't have that, then we need to destroy every nuclear weapon that anyone has, anywhere, along with the knowledge of how to make them, and permanently ban their production or use.

Also...in terms of non-violent solutions, where America is concerned, there is one very simple one, but it can not be implemented, because of the number of people within the public, who are still sympathetic to the government.

A group of at least several million people, however, need to march to Washington, stand outside the gates, and inform the government that it has two choices.  It can either massacre that entire group, or it can surrender and disband peacefully and voluntarily; but that either way, the people are no longer willing to tolerate its' excesses.

I am truthfully not entirely confident that the government would not respond to that aggressively; I think it probably would.  It may not, however; and that is therefore the chance that needs to be taken.

petrus,

Bump that mini nation up to at max 2 million min 1 million and I can see it. I think 2,000 is way too small and only a village. The last place I lived was considered a village and they had 50,000 people. Not enough to keep it running on its own. It depends on how independant you want to be as a nation.

Quangdong has 10 million people, that would make every block a nation. Hope I don't need a visa for each of them.

But then which nation gets the goodies and who gets the unworkable land. With a large nation, they all get it. With small nations it is hard to go to war. Not enough money to buy fancy equipment. There are drawbacks either way but an interesting idea I have heard about for the last few years.
Deuem

Last time they shut down the government it lasted 19 days :D  We survived :P

No pay for Congress during the shutdown


Sign the Petition


http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/tell-congress-you-have

Think of it this way, you are just saving a bit of ready cash, whilst Britain continues to set your course in the background.

We invested a lot in your country after the war disguised as lend lease repayments, bad business decisions etc., so don't worry, we won't let you go to waste...

There is a plan for your country, and all English people know it...

Fruitbat.

Quote from: zorgon on October 10, 2013, 12:51:03 PM
No pay for Congress during the shutdown


Sign the Petition


http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/tell-congress-you-have

I think this is the proper way of off setting the budget conundrum caused by the PTB that are really having a Pissing match and costing us financially. Gubmint for the most part are all a bit shady for any kind of real trusting feeling's or out looks. After they are voted into office, we the people goes right out the door I feel.

Carrying out these Fed budget cut's by cutting the National Forestry and stupid act's like this are not only unacceptable, they are down right embarrassing. I have literally talk to people planning vacation's this past fiasco and had to divert their whole Itinerary due to the National Parks closing down and taking from the people of something that has nothing directly to do with the Shutdown in the first place, other than using fed funds, but these were intended for the forestry and it's counter parts.

It seems that no matter who we "Think" we are voting into office of this that or the other thing, we are continually let down by hidden past secrets or truly a display of blatant and out right criminal acts. And the only real way to see these types surface is to get the good representatives we do have to start talking up and get these thing's brought to the light of day.

As for the Obamacare, well, I knew there would be a shift of medical urgency and the need of medical facilities for under covered individuals, We have to consider as well that with in the Physicians communities, there are some really Schiester's as well, they do simple but charge thing's like get an X-Ray of a location that was just X-rayed by another Doctor a day ago, thing's like that, this is unacceptable, but I hear of these events all the time.

The water's can get  pretty muddy here, and it is easy to just not want to listen, hear or watch any of these thing's unfold, but, when it has to get as redundant as misappropriation of fund's, which has been displayed over and over by our current accepted state of affairs according to our representatives and house leader's, this is where we start to weed the garden. ;)

IMHO

1WW

Quote from: ArMaP on October 09, 2013, 10:07:06 PM
I didn't say it was a bad thing, but it wasn't really a case of "the Sleeping Giant waking up". :)

True. :)

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 09, 2013, 10:04:55 PM
Hate to break it to You but the EU's purpose was to eventually add it in under a fascist NWO...along with other economic unions.

Well it clearly didn't work because the Allies won the war and the UK still has its own foreign policy - which helped make NATO so strong by keeping the USA close to Europe - and its own currency.  Other EU countries do too.

Yes, there are liberties taken by governments that are extreme.  I'd also agree that a lot of leaders are fascist or tend toward fascism.  However, the mode of government enshrined in law is not fascist, even in Spain.  That is because somebody stood their ground and lost millions of lives in the process.


How many gears does a French Tank have?

One.... Reverse!   :o ::)

Quote from: Pimander on October 10, 2013, 02:41:12 PM
Well it clearly didn't work because the Allies won the war and the UK still has its own foreign policy - which helped make NATO so strong by keeping the USA close to Europe - and its own currency.  Other EU countries do too.

We are not talking about WW2, Pimander.  Amaterasu is right.  The European Union was intended as a transitory step towards world government.  I know that you've said that you don't consider that a negative thing; but some of us do.  The problems we have at the moment, with due to the current concentrations of non-consensual political power, would be infinitely greater under the system that they would like to impose.

The thing is Petrus, any form of closer union can be interpreted as a step towards one government.  That doesn't mean the world is going to be ruled by the head of the Rothschild's family.  Think about it....  ::)

I'm for a World structure or constitution that determines how people can be treated - otherwise you inevitable get most countries bullied by a few powerful countries or private interests.  Paradoxically I'm also for decision making being local where possible.  There needs to be a FAIR framework or infrastructure for autonomous groups to be allowed to thrive.

You can't run an infrastructure, currency and resource allocation fairly and democratically without some kind of set up that facilitates it.

I'll use living beings as an example.  A group of single celled organisms can live symbiotically and harmoniously without the need for a brain.  As cells cooperate more they need and become multicellular then need things like a nervous system to stay alive.  When they become very large and complex they need a brain to coordinate their functions or they will die.  The same thing applies to human civilisation.

Without coordination a highly populated organism like human civilisation will start to break down, much like a human does without a brain.  Without coordination the more complex functions of civilisation (like the interweb, airports etc) will fall apart and a lot of people will starve - just like the cells of a human whose brain doesn't tell it to get food and eat will.  Some humans would survive but much of civilisation would break down.

For that coordination to be fair it has to be constitutionally obligated to care for all civilisation equally (as possible but nothing is perfect) which ultimately means it has to be GLOBAL.  We need a GLOBAL CONSTITUTION.  Civilisation is too complex not to have one.

A global constitution should take the best from the world.  Parts of the American are great for Americans.  If the rules applied to all humans and not just US citizens then we start to move towards something better.  I'd also like to see the principle of common ownership of infrastructure and raw materials WORLDWIDE written into it.  The right to run a business of your own (not a global corporations of course) and own your own home should be protected.

Finally - before I get accused of wanting a fascist or old communist style of government - the right of local states to govern themselves without interference on other matters should be protected by a constitutional ruling.

Quote from: Pimander on October 10, 2013, 04:18:11 PM
The thing is Petrus, any form of closer union can be interpreted as a step towards one government.  That doesn't mean the world is going to be ruled by the head of the Rothschild's family.  Think about it....  ::)

It means that the world is going to end up being ruled by, whoever displays the greater degree of initiative, personal responsibility, and active intelligence; and as much as we might not like to admit it, that is almost always the psychopaths.

I'm not sure why, but for some reason virtuous individuals are far more inclined towards inertia, or at least mediocrity, even if they work hard.

I also agree that any form of union is a step closer to world government, which is exactly why I'm opposed to it.  Unity is a swearword in my vocabulary, and I will admit that quite openly.

QuoteI'm for a World structure or constitution that determines how people can be treated - otherwise you inevitable get most countries bullied by a few powerful countries or private interests.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights already exists, and has for a while now.  You only need to look at America's actions in Iraq in particular, to see how effective or well-regarded it really is.

Understand that with federalism, there is no route you can take, or angle that you can look at things, that does not lead back to the psychopaths winning.  If you say that you want a world constitution, then the only way to ensure that it will be worth the paper it is printed on, is to also have a global authority backing it, which has a universal monopoly of violence; which is what the U.N. itself wants, by the way.

Said global authority will be murderously corrupt literally before it sets up shop; and all the size of it will mean, is that it will be impossible to remove.  That is exactly what the psychopaths have been working towards for at least the last 12,000 years.  They can't wait for it.

QuoteParadoxically I'm also for decision making being local where possible.  There needs to be a FAIR framework or infrastructure for autonomous groups to be allowed to thrive.

Again; the problem with fairness is that it implies enforcement.  I'm not saying I dislike the idea of fairness; lots of us like it.  Where you have a definition of fairness, however, you need an arbiter; and the need for an arbiter is exactly where you run into problems.

We have two central, perpetual crises.

a}  As Hitler observed, and is quoted in Sinny's sig; "How fortunate it is for leaders, that men do not think."

b}  Even to the extent that the non-psychopaths are prepared to display active intelligence, the psychopaths are willing to use murder, while the rest of us are not.  Gandhi's protests to the contrary aside, the fact is that whoever is willing to engage in murder, wins.  It's basically that simple.

We can talk about world federalism, or decentralisation, or anything else we want; but ultimately it doesn't matter, because the one problem that we still have not solved, is the psychopaths.  As long as the psychopaths exist, and as long as the elements of human nature which they can exploit also exist, then there is no positive economic or governmental system that we can devise, that will be able to work.

It will always ultimately reduce back to a scenario of the psychopaths ruling the entire planet, and holding the rest of us face down in the mud.

The psychopaths are the central problem.  The psychopaths are the only problem; and for the most part, they are the one thing that people are not willing to talk about.  It does not seem to matter how many people the American government kills; to a large extent, the American public keeps giving it the benefit of the doubt.  They keep insisting that their system is fine, they keep worshipping the Presidency, they keep behaving and thinking as though anyone in power still gives half a rat's backside about the Constitution, when it is painfully obvious that nobody in power does.

So it goes on.

Quote from: Pimander on October 10, 2013, 02:41:12 PM
Well it clearly didn't work because the Allies won the war and the UK still has its own foreign policy - which helped make NATO so strong by keeping the USA close to Europe - and its own currency.  Other EU countries do too.

It's still in process...  Or it was, but things seem to be going not according to plan.

Petrus, I don't have time to follow up all your comments right now but if people do not UNITE then the psychopaths win.  That is fundamentally why you are wrong where you say unity is a swear word.  That was a point ArMaP tried to make earlier in the thread too.

United we stand, divided we fall.

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 10, 2013, 08:20:15 PM
It's still in process...  Or it was, but things seem to be going not according to plan.

It must have been a useless plan.  What kind of psychopath plans something that wil not benefit them in their lifetime?  I'd say that would be a moron not a psychopath.

Petrus,


The psychopaths are NOT a problem in a system that does not promote Them.  That is why My system has no money and no centralized body enforcing, but that if an Individual's behavior is disruptive the problem can be tackled by Those who CARE.

Problem-solving not politicking.

Quote from: Pimander on October 10, 2013, 04:18:11 PM
That doesn't mean the world is going to be ruled by the head of the Rothschild's family.

While the Rothschilds may not prevail as the rulers, it is certainly possible
that they may be a part of the big picture.

There is at work a Fifth Column in all of these nations
imperialistic march. That is the the core of the problem,
imo. Yes, the current Obama Administration stated
positiion is nearly opposite of the campaign he ran
as hopeful POTUS. An aside ( where are the screams from
the far left? )

Quote

I'm for a World structure or constitution that determines how people can be treated - otherwise you inevitable get most countries bullied by a few powerful countries or private interests. 

This is what the United Nations is supposedly for, yet we have them
implementing governance over nations with Agenda 21, so in reality
The United Nations is not fulfilling its stated purpose.

This is the problem with the larger governing bodies, they eventually
end up doing the opposite of what they were created for.
As an example we need look no further than The Feds, they now
battle with The  States, essentially weakening them, the opposite
of the Founding Fathers intent.

Quote
You can't run an infrastructure, currency and resource allocation fairly and democratically without some kind of set up that facilitates it.

Indeed, yet it seems that it is best for each nation
to remain sovereign unto itself. The insidious works
of the IMF and The World Bank are by no means the
hope of the nations.

Quotethe right of local states to govern themselves without interference on other matters should be protected by a constitutional ruling.

Yes, this is the answer, return to States sovereignty where
The Federal Government exists to strengthen them, not erode.

The model works, its not a bad one even for the rest of the world.

The real evil lies with the Fifth Column, and where it intends to take
all of the nations....which leads my thoughts back to The Rothschilds.

While The U.S. embarks on its imperialistic march, there is a far
greater, stronger, and more powerful unholy trinity of imperialism;
The United States Military ( Fifth Column, DARPA, NSA, CIA ),
London, and Rome.

It is my prediction that the United States is now undergoing
a planned and well timed transformation; from being a beacon
of hope to the word to a despised despot nation, this has been
planned from the 50's or earlier. The timing of Wikileaks, Snowden
its all part of the plan. There will come a time when The United
States will no longer own the military might of The Pentagon.

This is happening as we speak, the goal being a global
military that will be governed by a global governance.

The drama playing out before our eyes in America is
the stage, in which people are deceived into support
of America's fall. Eyes will be taken away from the real
threat of a One World Government, and directed to
the staged "Big Bad America"....so much so that the
people will cheer for its demise, even as it swallows them.

The answer to the imperialistic threat is not the weakening
of The United States, or its military; The answer is a return
to The Constitution of The U.S., and a dismantleling of
The United Nations, and a destruction of The Fifth Column.

Of course, all of this is my humble opinion; however based
in facts that are plainly true.

Quote from: petrus4 on October 10, 2013, 07:47:06 PM
Unity is a swearword in my vocabulary, and I will admit that quite openly.

What about a community like Pegasus? :)

Quote from: burntheships on October 10, 2013, 08:28:18 PM
This is what the United Nations is supposedly for, yet we have them
implementing governance over nations with Agenda 21, so in reality
The United Nations is not fulfilling its stated purpose.

Applying this principle to the Obamacare legislation, and taking the social security system as a past example - where the People were PROMISED up one side and down the other that it would never EVER be used for identification purposes - and with MUCH that suggests evil intent (NDAA anyOne?), WHY would We expect Obamacare to be serving the purpose THEY say it will?

QuoteThis is the problem with the larger governing bodies, they eventually
end up doing the opposite of what they were created for.
As an example we need look no further than The Feds, they now
battle with The  States, essentially weakening them, the opposite
of the Founding Fathers intent.

Yes.

QuoteYes, this is the answer, return to States sovereignty where
The Federal Government exists to strengthen them, not erode.

The model works, its not a bad one even for the rest of the world.

Except... ALWAYS the psychopaths will find Their psychopath to the top of the money/power heap.  One way or another.  And what was that quote...?  "Give Me control of a money supply and I care not what rules are made?"  Something like that.

Sooner or later, They WILL find a way to the top.

QuoteThe real evil lies with the Fifth Column, and where it intends to take
all of the nations....which leads my thoughts back to The Rothschilds.

And what gives this Fifth Column its power?  The money, of course.  They'd be just other People if it wasn't for control of the system of accounting for energy, requiring Human energy input to "earn" a right to live, thus slavery, whether outright or "voluntary" for "pay," and on and on.  Just other People.

QuoteWhile The U.S. embarks on its imperialistic march, there is a far
greater, stronger, and more powerful unholy trinity of imperialism;
The United States Military ( Fifth Column, DARPA, NSA, CIA ),
London, and Rome.

Them too. Money.  Pull the money rug out from under These and They have nothing but material possessions and any smile They can muster.

QuoteIt is my prediction that the United States is now undergoing
a planned and well timed transformation; from being a beacon
of hope to the word to a despised despot nation, this has been
planned from the 50's or earlier. The timing of Wikileaks, Snowden
its all part of the plan. There will come a time when The United
States will no longer own the military might of The Pentagon.

This is happening as we speak, the goal being a global
military that will be governed by a global governance.

Let's make this clear.  We will have a global controlMIND.  A governMENT.  We will not have governance, which is agreeable to the Individual.  We will have a collective - the whole indoctrination bit of the "New Age" crowd.  IF We want to preserve the Individual and Each's unique gift(s), We had better start a conversation about solutions.

And frankly, working within a moneyed framework will only ease bits of burden here and there at best, and leave that ripe ol' system sitting there to again be plucked.

QuoteThe drama playing out before our eyes in America is
the stage, in which people are deceived into support
of America's fall. Eyes will be taken away from the real
threat of a One World Government, and directed to
the staged "Big Bad America"....so much so that the
people will cheer for its demise, even as it swallows them.

Yes.  Precisely.  So.  Free energy.

QuoteThe answer to the imperialistic threat is not the weakening
of The United States, or its military; The answer is a return
to The Constitution of The U.S., and a dismantleling of
The United Nations, and a destruction of The Fifth Column.

Of course, all of this is my humble opinion; however based
in facts that are plainly true.

I plan on rewriting the Constitution to remove the commerce elements that would be meaningless in abundance...

Really, the only permanent solution to psychopaths running this planet is to eliminate the survival aspect of Our trading and gifts.  And as You know, I have a practical solution to just that goal.

I'm deleting what I had previously written here, because it was pessimistic, without serving any real purpose.

We can overcome, and we can solve our current problems; but we need to learn to both think, and take real responsibility for ourselves.  Most of the people here probably do that, but too many other people do not.

Quote from: ArMaP on October 10, 2013, 10:02:49 PM
What about a community like Pegasus? :)

This community is relatively small, Armap.  I have nothing against small groups; and even when I say that I am suspicious of unity, that still doesn't mean that I think we should be murdering each other.  What I primarily do not want is unity in terms of politics or governments, because that leads to concentrations of power, which become very difficult to remove.

We do not need to have a single, global superstate in order to treat each other well.  We simply need to learn and appreciate the value of self-management on the one hand, and secondly, to learn to diagnose and successfully treat the psychopaths on the other.

That is the main issue.  Immunise ourselves against the psychological vulnerabilities that Hitler documented, which allow the psychopaths to exploit us, and then learn how to diagnose the psychopaths, and either treat their condition or keep them securely confined, so that they cannot continue to dominate and subvert society.

The problem is not exclusively the psychopaths on their own.  We must take responsibility as well.  The psychopaths primarily manipulate us by making appeals to cowardice, and claiming that everything they do which results in the loss of our freedom, is done for our "protection."  We need to learn to recognise that pattern for what it is, and stop falling for it.  All we need to do is recognise it, and very firmly tell the psychopaths, "No," when they ask whether we are willing to lose our freedom, for the sake of false security.

Quote from: ArMaP on October 10, 2013, 10:02:49 PM
What about a community like Pegasus? :)

In my Medieval Group we solve the problem with our Motto "Unity in Diversity"

What we did was set up a system that was pretty much a Feudal System.  Each person who had an idea was allowed to create a "City State" within our "Empire" in which they had absolute control. So long as each "City State" fulfilled their obligations to the  "Empire" they had the power of the empire as backing but didn't have someone dictating what they could or couldn't do,

It worked very well... in no time we were a major presence on the Ren scene  because each group was motivated to show their best. The only rule was "If you want to be a Duke of a City State... you must BE a Duke"  In otherwords you must have the ability to run your group as you promised

So each group had its own existance but yet we were all unified under a common flag...

Like the United Nations... but without the council that just ends up arguing and getting nowwhere

:D

Quote from: zorgon on October 11, 2013, 12:37:28 AM
In my Medieval Group we solve the problem with our Motto "Unity in Diversity"

What we did was set up a system that was pretty much a Feudal System.  Each person who had an idea was allowed to create a "City State" within our "Empire" in which they had absolute control. So long as each "City State" fulfilled their obligations to the  "Empire" they had the power of the empire as backing but didn't have someone dictating what they could or couldn't do

In scientific or technocratic (positive; I know of a very different meaning for the word "technocracy," than what most use) terms, each one of your City States would be called a Working Group, Zorgon.  The idea is that you have an overall project (corresponding with your Empire, although not entirely, perhaps) with working groups governing each smaller subtask within said project.

The Internet used to have the Internet Engineering Task Force; but there were various working groups devoted to each particular protocol.  Mind you, that was before government and Capitalism got hold of the Internet, and destroyed that earlier structure.

Yes WORKING groups with emphasis on the "WORKING"  :D

You want the world to change you need to divide it into working groups that allow for the various religions and other ideas, because the more you try to eradicate them the stronger they will entrench.

Small groups left alone will work themselves out and pretty much stick to themselves.  They only stick their nose into empire business when the empire messes with their status quo

Quote from: Amaterasu on October 11, 2013, 12:12:21 AM
WHY would We expect Obamacare to be serving the purpose THEY say it will?

Yes, why would anyone. I certainly see right through it,
and will act accordingly. Obamacare is uniquely insidious
in that just by existing, one must respond to this legislation
in some manner. That is unprededented, perhaps only matched
by the assignment of a Social Security #.

Since we are on the topic, we have Social Security #'s here
in the U.S., what unique identifiers are assigned in the U.K,
anyone? Other countries?

Quote
Sooner or later, They WILL find a way to the top.

Agreed, and while they truely are psychopaths, imo that is not
a full enough description of them. I am of the mind that they are
actually the embodiment of evil itself. My thoughts on this
run deep, and perhaps this deserves its own topic.
I see evil as opposing what is good, by its very nature
it is destructive. It seeks to destroy its opposite good.

QuoteAnd what gives this Fifth Column its power?  The money, of course.  They'd be just other People if it wasn't for control of the system of accounting for energy, requiring Human energy input to "earn" a right to live, thus slavery, whether outright or "voluntary" for "pay," and on and on. 

Well Amy, as much as I agree with you, here I have some disagreement,
as I do think that evil can and does exist apart from money.

Quote
IF We want to preserve the Individual and Each's unique gift(s),
We had better start a conversation about solutions.

Here I agree, to what extent we can, let us go forward.
I for one know that my earthly time is but a moment,
life goes on afterwards and for that I am eternally thankful
that I am not a citizen of the earth indefinitely.  ;)
However, while I am here I am all for being the best
steward I can be.  :)

Quote from: burntheships on October 10, 2013, 08:28:18 PM
The answer to the imperialistic threat is not the weakening
of The United States, or its military; The answer is a return
to The Constitution of The U.S., and a dismantleling of
The United Nations, and a destruction of The Fifth Column.

Of course, all of this is my humble opinion; however based
in facts that are plainly true.

Given that I am now feeling considerably more sane than I was when I made my initial response to this thread, I can agree with this.

The problem with getting rid of the United Nations, however, is that far too many people have been seduced into believing that it is a positive thing.  The U.N. actually could be a genuinely good thing in some respects; but the problem is that even in those areas where it could be genuinely beneficial, it would still need the monopoly of violence which it seeks, for enforcement.

Quote from: petrus4 on October 11, 2013, 12:31:57 AM
The problem is not exclusively the psychopaths on their own.  We must take responsibility as well.  The psychopaths primarily manipulate us by making appeals to cowardice, and claiming that everything they do which results in the loss of our freedom, is done for our "protection."  We need to learn to recognise that pattern for what it is, and stop falling for it.  All we need to do is recognise it, and very firmly tell the psychopaths, "No," when they ask whether we are willing to lose our freedom, for the sake of false security.

I agree, and we don't need free energy or the right to have guns to do that. :)

Quote from: petrus4 on October 11, 2013, 01:15:36 AM
The U.N. actually could be a genuinely good thing in some respects; but the problem is that even in those areas where it could be genuinely beneficial, it would still need the monopoly of violence which it seeks, for enforcement.

Indeed Petrus.

Which it seems brings us to the problems of why some people
are driven to a desire to control others. The UN has its own factions
of military.

Also we must examine why the nations war, usually driven
by desires for money, control, and sometimes religion...and it seems
to be in the genes that men desire to war with one another, to conquer.

Quote from: burntheships on October 11, 2013, 12:52:42 AM
Since we are on the topic, we have Social Security #'s here
in the U.S., what unique identifiers are assigned in the U.K,
anyone? Other countries?

In Portugal we have a Identity Card with the respective number (it's being replaced by one of those smart cards), a Social Security number, a fiscal number, an health system number and a voter number (these are not national, they are just local numbers). :)

Discussions of this nature leave me frustrated because they seem tied to various ideologies rather than cold facts. Such as:

The UN is a debating society.  I don't comprehend old John Birch ideas about getting out of it because it seems to deal with fantasies spun by NWO order types - and accomplish little.

The most profound FACT I can think of in regard to these New World Order wetdreams is that centralized military power is politically IMPOTENT.  African states can't even control their capital cities at night, much less the country-side.  The US Military is being chased out of Afghanistan and Iraq by assault rifle toting insurgents - and this follows the similar Russian experience there, too.

The Bilderbergs, Rockefellers and similar Cabalists don't get it.  They can't control the streets, the mobs, the common herds of people.  The coming end of the War on Drugs - with giving up on marijuana prohibition is direct evidence that the Bigwigs can't control the masses.  Weed won, they lost.

We seem to be at a crossroads in which neither side is in control and the world is just drifting along, amidst pretense that recovery is possible.

I am astonished (although I shouldn't be) that the Mass Media hasn't noticed the incredible fact that the Federal government is blatantly illegitimate and has no right to exist.  The polls show that Congress, the Supreme Court and the Federal government generally have record lows of approval.   There is no basis for the required 'consent of the governed'.  I don't know how this all time worst situation ends.......

Quote from: petrus4 on October 11, 2013, 12:43:00 AM
The Internet used to have the Internet Engineering Task Force; but there were various working groups devoted to each particular protocol.  Mind you, that was before government and Capitalism got hold of the Internet, and destroyed that earlier structure.

What?  People stigmergically coming together to create for the betterment?  That never happens... Heh. 

Quote from: burntheships on October 11, 2013, 12:52:42 AM
Well Amy, as much as I agree with you, here I have some disagreement,
as I do think that evil can and does exist apart from money.

I think it's a matter of perspective...  I see a real scenario where there is a race that is using ALL of Us, duping the many with "just wait, help is coming," and the "controlling" psychopathic few with "satanic visions."  The evil is psychopathy manifesting with encouragement and assistance from the Beings who see Humans as livestock.  They are not "evil," per se, but do not grasp that We see it as wrong, perhaps.

QuoteHere I agree, to what extent we can, let us go forward.
I for one know that my earthly time is but a moment,
life goes on afterwards and for that I am eternally thankful
that I am not a citizen of the earth indefinitely.  ;)
However, while I am here I am all for being the best
steward I can be.  :)

I'm quite fond of this universe.  And I believe We Humans will choose to co-create better.

Quote from: Eighthman on October 11, 2013, 02:02:03 AM
The UN is a debating society.

Well put :D

QuoteThe US Military is being chased out of Afghanistan and Iraq by assault rifle toting insurgents - and this follows the similar Russian experience there, too.

Putin - "We told you so..."

QuoteThe Bilderbergs, Rockefellers and similar Cabalists don't get it.  They can't control the streets, the mobs, the common herds of people.  The coming end of the War on Drugs - with giving up on marijuana prohibition is direct evidence that the Bigwigs can't control the masses.  Weed won, they lost.

Quite true... but the problem is the "we the people..." are our own worst enemies. All this talk about the Cabal this, the Illuminati that, just fuels their fire. Ignore them and they will soon be rendered harmless.

90% of what internet bloogers say the Cabal is doing is total BS anyway and only has life in the endless mindless Twatter and Farcebook feeds.  No reality, no confirmation... just endless fear mongering and then like horroe films, they run off screaming at the fear they created :D

QuoteWe seem to be at a crossroads in which neither side is in control and the world is just drifting along, amidst pretense that recovery is possible.

Yes the Pedulum is swinging. In 2000 the Rosicrucians decided it was time to 'come out of the closet' and take a more active role in fixing things. It will be slow, but as you say, Hemp and Weed winning is only the first sign... and only because it is on the minds of so many :P

QuoteI am astonished (although I shouldn't be) that the Mass Media hasn't noticed the incredible fact that the Federal government is blatantly illegitimate and has no right to exist. 

Mass media has been proven to be owned 99.5% by the Rothschilds... no surprise here..

QuoteThe polls show that Congress, the Supreme Court and the Federal government generally have record lows of approval.   There is no basis for the required 'consent of the governed'.  I don't know how this all time worst situation ends.......

Thing is no one is willing to step up to the podium and take over.  Ron Paul... I though he was the one,,, but then he sold us out to Romney

I think I will just increase time selling on Ebay etc and rake in cash and sit back and wait to see the pendulum swing back

Quote from: Eighthman on October 11, 2013, 02:02:03 AM
The Bilderbergs, Rockefellers and similar Cabalists don't get it.

If we get it, I'm sure the ones that are really controlling (or trying to control) things get it.

Because they get it, we don't really know who they are. :)

Quote from: burntheships on October 10, 2013, 08:28:18 PM
While the Rothschilds may not prevail as the rulers, it is certainly possible
that they may be a part of the big picture.

They are because they own or are partners in many of the banks.  As long as the current banking system is part of the problem and not the solution then they are a problem.

It is worth remembering though that the Rothschild Empire is a financial one.  They do not even want political power - it is about financial control to maintain a disproportionate share of the worlds wealth.  They are not the only ones plotting for that.  I'd say we ignore particular figureheads and demand fundamental changes in the financial system worldwide.  NO exceptions for private interest groups of any description.

QuoteThis is what the United Nations is supposedly for, yet we have them
implementing governance over nations with Agenda 21, so in reality
The United Nations is not fulfilling its stated purpose.

This is the problem with the larger governing bodies, they eventually
end up doing the opposite of what they were created for.
As an example we need look no further than The Feds, they now
battle with The  States, essentially weakening them, the opposite
of the Founding Fathers intent.

Until the UN is truly democratic and represents the people rather than a ruling elite this won't change.  Same in US politics.   The Senate and House of Reps control law in the USA and certainly not voters.  You need to remove private funding for electoral parties and get rid of private corporations influence (preferable by making big corps democratic and owned by their workers).

Quote
Indeed, yet it seems that it is best for each nation
to remain sovereign unto itself. The insidious works
of the IMF and The World Bank are by no means the
hope of the nations.

Again, the banks and IMF are not run in the interests of the many or democratic.

QuoteYes, this is the answer, return to States sovereignty where
The Federal Government exists to strengthen them, not erode.

The model works, its not a bad one even for the rest of the world.

I agree in principle.  Any united democratic worldwide body could be used to facilitate a model like that.

QuoteThe real evil lies with the Fifth Column, and where it intends to take
all of the nations....which leads my thoughts back to The Rothschilds.

While The U.S. embarks on its imperialistic march, there is a far
greater, stronger, and more powerful unholy trinity of imperialism;
The United States Military ( Fifth Column, DARPA, NSA, CIA ),
London, and Rome.

Military, Finance and "Spiritual" pacification are a pretty powerful combination.

QuoteIt is my prediction that the United States is now undergoing
a planned and well timed transformation; from being a beacon
of hope to the word to a despised despot nation, this has been
planned from the 50's or earlier. The timing of Wikileaks, Snowden
its all part of the plan. There will come a time when The United
States will no longer own the military might of The Pentagon.

This is happening as we speak, the goal being a global
military that will be governed by a global governance.

The drama playing out before our eyes in America is
the stage, in which people are deceived into support
of America's fall. Eyes will be taken away from the real
threat of a One World Government, and directed to
the staged "Big Bad America"....so much so that the
people will cheer for its demise, even as it swallows them.

I'm not sure whether it is planned.  It is happening though so something has to be done about it.

QuoteThe answer to the imperialistic threat is not the weakening
of The United States, or its military; The answer is a return
to The Constitution of The U.S., and a dismantleling of
The United Nations, and a destruction of The Fifth Column.

The UN could be part of the solution if it became democratic.  If the constitution or similar was enforced GLOBALLY then the US one would automatically be back in place.  I think sometimes we think inside a box.

Ultimately though, massive change is needed.  There are some good things in the world, not least of which is constitutional values.  It needs to be global AND UNITED.

Quote from: ArMaP on October 11, 2013, 01:20:52 AM
I agree, and we don't need free energy or the right to have guns to do that. :) [i.e. control the psychopaths]

No but we need a body/organisation powerful enough to stop psychopaths taking control.  That body/organisation has to have sensible rules that if enforced deny psychopaths power.  The body/organisation also has to be powerful enough to enforce those rules.

Without a body/organisation such as that, psychopathic despots are destined to continue to dominate the world stage and international finance.

For a body like that to exist, in my opinion, you need enough people to UNITE in support of it.  People will only unite to a common cause if they can do it democratically - which is what I am trying to explain.  We need to create a democratic organisation  the sole aim of which is to make this happen.   Efforts directed to other causes may help in small ways but will never resolve the problems civilisations currently has.

Or are you going to wait for Jesus/God/ET or whoever to help you?  You'll be waiting forever....

Quote from: zorgon on October 11, 2013, 12:37:28 AM
What we did was set up a system that was pretty much a Feudal System.  Each person who had an idea was allowed to create a "City State" within our "Empire" in which they had absolute control. So long as each "City State" fulfilled their obligations to the  "Empire" they had the power of the empire as backing but didn't have someone dictating what they could or couldn't do,

Something like this but Global and democratic.  The "City States" would have to have their own rules but under a global constitution so would have to respect human rights, be democratic and support the Global "Empire".

Each City state would have to be democratically represented in the Global Empire which MUST defend their right to autonomy on everything outside their constitutional obligations to the rest of the world.

Every citizen of Earth would be represented.


Health care, big pharma and sharing of resources (esp raw materials and oil) would have to be overseen by global or regional organisations otherwise they would not be run fairly and for the benefit of all.

Quote from: zorgon on October 11, 2013, 03:05:48 AM
Well put :D

Putin - "We told you so..."

Lulz.

Quote"we the people..." are our own worst enemies. All this talk about the Cabal this, the Illuminati that, just fuels their fire. Ignore them and they will soon be rendered harmless.

Quote90% of what internet bloogers say the Cabal is doing is total BS anyway and only has life in the endless mindless Twatter and Farcebook feeds.  No reality, no confirmation...

I was watching one of these 'internet blooger' video's last night. Interview of Beyonce being asked what the 'triangle hand' was all about - she said it's symbol of Rockefeller, and that Jay Z would be pleased to see it in the air... All the confirmation I need - we're offered it every waking moment of our lives...everywhere we look.

I've been bumping into many average Joe's, who sometimes have a better perception than myself, of this New World Order dysfunction. This is because they do follow the media, fame and showbiz - whereas I avoid it.

Almost all are awake - lets face it, you'd have to be docile not to see what paraded right under your nose, and in front of your eyes to see.

Quote
Thing is no one is willing to step up to the podium and take over.  Ron Paul... I though he was the one,,, but then he sold us out to Romney

I don't understand this thinking. We can't lay the responsibility of change onto the shoulders of one person. We are all responsible. Why don't you or I run for Prime Minister/President and make the changes we wish to see?.... Because it's bigger than just me or you - or Ron Paul - or Julian Assange ...This does take an act of unity, and strength in numbers.

Why would I wear my Guy Fawkes mask at a demonstration? Because I know I would be unduly persecuted by the law in today's political environment. Until I have my strength in number, I'd rather cover my own butt.

But here we are, your doing your part, right here on this very forum.
Me? Haven't figured out my part yet, but every day I make conscious choices to rebel against what I know to be wrong - and if we can get everybody moving in the same general direction - summins 'gotta give'.

Imperialism
According to the Dictionary;
the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries, or of acquiring and holding colonies and dependencies.

Is the US doing this: I would say yes, they took over where Britain left off, just not raising the flag everywhere.

So we have some questions
1) If the states did not do this what would happen to the other countries, would they be absorbed by others?
2) Do we have a world wide responsibility to help others less fortunate?
3) What deals should we make with others that want help?
4) Should we ever give money?
5) Do we ever get paid back or is it a write off?
6) What does it take to keep parts of the world secure?
7) Should the states be in isolation again like before the World Wars?
8) Should we equalize trade or let it go unbalanced?
9) If other countries want our help, blood and money, should they join the states first?
10 Would the USA people allow another country to become a state? Say Afghanistan?

Should we close our eyes and say the heck with everyone, we have our own problems. Which we do!
How would people feel if Mexico an Canada were joined to us and became states? Big ouch or Yea?

Should the people have the right on who we give money to, say take a vote. Yea/Na
Should we eve borrow money from other countries?

All of the above problems are related to greed. Our greed for their fruits, Oil, raw materials and to keep the price below market price. If the cards were re-shuffled the prices would go so high, most everything we import would stop and the jobs would come home again. Maybe my coffee would be 5 times the cost.

Imperialism gave Britain a leg up on the world and it managed the world money. The dollar took over for what 50 years and it is now losing it worth. You can now buy oil in other currencies. Very soon we will have to buy RMB or Rubbles to buy oil. When that happens, the Imperialism benefits will come to a halt very quickly. It will drain every USD out of the country in a matter of a year or two.

Remember what the British did in Honk Kong. They setup a complete drug industry, took the profits and bought tea. Not one pound left England. he way you guys drink tea, they knew the country would be broke in a few years.

Un-balanced trade causes most of the problems that force greed to force another country to bend or lose. Countries that have a balanced trade are better off and not forced to enter Imperialism. To do this starts with each person buying American products or nothing. Bring the money home and stop giving it to the greedy importers. Make laws to in-force balanced trade.............

I also think that the world should have one dollar value. The idea that my money is worth more than yours is a setup to keep other countries down and poor. Everyone can keep their own money, just balance it out to be fair. Why should people in different countries do the same job and get paid differently. This was all set up to be this way....Setup to keep the lead and keep them poor........

Deuem

Quote from: Pimander on October 11, 2013, 11:12:36 AM
No but we need a body/organisation powerful enough to stop psychopaths taking control.  That body/organisation has to have sensible rules that if enforced deny psychopaths power.  The body/organisation also has to be powerful enough to enforce those rules.

Either that or the general population needs to understand what is happening.

QuoteOr are you going to wait for Jesus/God/ET or whoever to help you?  You'll be waiting forever....

I'm not waiting for anything. :)

Quote from: Sinny on October 11, 2013, 11:36:02 AM
Why would I wear my Guy Fawkes mask at a demonstration? Because I know I would be unduly persecuted by the law in today's political environment. Until I have my strength in number, I'd rather cover my own butt.

That would be a different way of using the mask.   ;)

Quote from: burntheships on October 10, 2013, 08:28:18 PM
It is my prediction that the United States is now undergoing
a planned and well timed transformation; from being a beacon
of hope to the word to a despised despot nation, this has been
planned from the 50's or earlier.

I keep trying to tell Americans, that the reality is that the country was never the beacon of hope, that they for some reason crave telling themselves that it is.  The country has never really been the proverbial shining city on a hill, and literally the sole justification that Americans have ever had for believing that, was Eisenhower's liberation of some of the German concentration camps, at the end of WW2.

Aside from WW2, there has never been a single act of American foreign military intervention which was wanted, asked for, appreciated, or that resulted in genuine and lasting benefit to the target nation.  It has never happened, and the idea that it has, is nothing more than an illusion.

Apart from anything else, Americans desperately need to get the stars out of their eyes, where their mythological "Founders," are concerned.  In reality, they were a group of elitist, slave-owning Freemasons who largely plagiarised the system which had been previously used by the Roman Empire; and we all saw how well it worked for the Romans in the end, didn't we?

Don't forget also, that your supposedly glorious Republic was built on top of the corpses left behind by Washington's genocide of the natives.  First, these supposedly enlightened, God-inspired geniuses slaughtered 98% of the people who had previously been living in the country, and then they shipped large numbers of black people from Africa to work as a slave labour force.  Such glorious freedom.

Quote from: Pimander on October 11, 2013, 11:02:51 AM
They are because they own or are partners in many of the banks.  As long as the current banking system is part of the problem and not the solution then they are a problem.

The Federal Reserve Cartel: The Eight Families
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-federal-reserve-cartel-the-eight-families/25080

QuoteIt is worth remembering though that the Rothschild Empire is a financial one.  They do not even want political power - it is about financial control to maintain a disproportionate share of the worlds wealth.

(http://p.twimg.com/ArgpOPKCMAAUbFz.jpg)

Quote from: Sinny on October 11, 2013, 11:36:02 AM
I don't understand this thinking. We can't lay the responsibility of change onto the shoulders of one person. We are all responsible. Why don't you or I run for Prime Minister/President and make the changes we wish to see?.... Because it's bigger than just me or you - or Ron Paul - or Julian Assange ...This does take an act of unity, and strength in numbers.

Well I already offered to run as King of the American Empire :D  Got a lot of votes on Facebook :D Want to be Queen? :P  problem is you do need money to get the word out :D

QuoteWhy would I wear my Guy Fawkes mask at a demonstration? Because I know I would be unduly persecuted by the law in today's political environment. Until I have my strength in number, I'd rather cover my own butt.

It would look funny on your butt :P But does it really matter? If they want to persecute you that mask will only single you out... 

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/26/article-2331313-1A0467BF000005DC-128_634x418.jpg)

As to something has to give... yes the pendulum is swinging. They do NOT have absolute power. Don'y forget that Morgan Chase was FINED $85 million dollars  so they can be had :D

Quote from: zorgon on October 11, 2013, 10:50:03 PM
As to something has to give... yes the pendulum is swinging. They do NOT have absolute power. Don'y forget that Morgan Chase was FINED $85 million dollars  so they can be had :D

It is not the politicians who have any real power whatsoever.  Ultimately it is the police who do.  It's a shame they don't realise that.  If they did, it probably would not only be the civilian public who got beaten up by them.

Quote from: petrus4 on October 11, 2013, 11:40:36 PM
It is not the politicians who have any real power whatsoever.  Ultimately it is the police who do.  It's a shame they don't realise that.  If they did, it probably would not only be the civilian public who got beaten up by them.

No, the police is just a tool used for the enforcing of the power, they have orders to follow.

Quote from: zorgon on October 11, 2013, 10:50:03 PM
Well I already offered to run as King of the American Empire :D 

Is there a vacancy for permanent secretary to the treasury?  If so, accept this post as my application for the position.

Quote from: ArMaP on October 11, 2013, 08:14:45 PM
Either that or the general population needs to understand what is happening.

One of the things that IS happening is that the most militarily powerful nation on Earth are openly telling the United Nations that they are Imperialists and the normal rules of engagement apply to every country but the USA.

What are the United Nations doing about it?

QuoteI'm not waiting for anything. :)

Its OK, Jesus will save you anyway.  Oh no, I think he already did that by getting nailed to a cross.  Or is the message a little bit confused? ::)

Quote from: Pimander on October 12, 2013, 03:55:25 PM
One of the things that IS happening is that the most militarily powerful nation on Earth are openly telling the United Nations that they are Imperialists and the normal rules of engagement apply to every country but the USA.

What are the United Nations doing about it?

I don't know what the U.N. are going to do about it, but I feel as though all *I* really need to do about it, is wait for Kali to slap the government collectively until it begs for mercy.  Ma does not like hubris; and while for the benefit of the atheists here, I am not going to go into detail, I have been reminded of that in no uncertain terms, within the last 24 hours.

I will also say this.  Some of you probably know about the giant hornet attacks in China, recently.  If you don't, you can look it up.  That is only the beginning, for all of us.

I am not going to be like Pat Robertson.  He claims that the punishment is only for other people, and not himself.  I have been punished as well, as I deserved to be, and I will have more if I do not watch myself.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ayjmAXPlWCM/TOTnwkgjVtI/AAAAAAAAAGQ/8FH0tmzSPPs/s1600/Kalima.jpg)

It is getting beyond a joke.  Time to stop laughing.

Quote from: Pimander on October 12, 2013, 03:55:25 PM

Its OK, Jesus will save you anyway.  Oh no, I think he already did that by getting nailed to a cross.  Or is the message a little bit confused? ::)

Pim,

Dont worry about this kind of stuff, its more work than required,
The Pope has taken this on, and he is doing a great job.

(http://www.herzmariens.de/Aktuelles/franziskus/franz_kreuz1.bmp)

LOL

I see a skull and cross bones on his chest...... Or is it Osiris?

(http://spheresoflight.com.au/axismundi/content/images/osiris-pose.jpg)

Quote from: Pimander on October 12, 2013, 11:33:39 PM
LOL

I see a skull and cross bones on his chest...... Or is it Osiris?

Maybe both, word circulating on the new one he is holding
is that it is baphomet, which adds up pretty accurate.

And to think some say The Vatican is Satanic!
:o

I've no idea what you mean. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWLi_laDGq0

Wait! How could the throngs be wrong?

;)

Only a small step removed, so many still
follow Obama even as he has betrayed the masses.
Obama himslef claims to be a devout Christian,
he did so himself in front of another devout Christian
Rick Warren.

Blind Devotion is perilous.

Like those echelon in Goldman Sachs claiming to do
Gods work.   ( In that case the IMF must be God! )

;D ;) :o >:(

Quote from: Pimander on October 12, 2013, 03:55:25 PM
What are the United Nations doing about it?

What is this "United Nations" you speak of?  Are he native Americans teaming up?  8)

i rember talking to you, i asked what can we do?you replied we have the right to fire any cabinet memer and g.. officals,isaid lets fire them..you laughed and said so u just going to go in and say you are fired?!LOL i said works for trump why not? then u said needed a betition if i made that far.lol bill love im going to tell them they are fired dont worrie i got this!lolol

The old people dont want anybody rocking the boat because they are finally retired and dont want social security messed with.the military are too brainwashed to see the truth.thats the majority of voters and party members.so our botes dont count .even if there was a fair election.so we are screwed.
The un is a joke.unless your some small country with no valuable natural resources.
For example you dont see the un doing anything about palestine.

Quote from: robomont on December 03, 2013, 01:57:20 PM
The old people dont want anybody rocking the boat because they are finally retired and dont want social security messed with.

Better not screw with social security.  I've been paying in nearly 30 years now, my statement shows a nice chunk of monthly money when I do retire.  I'm not worried about it though.  It's a third rail issue.  No one will touch it.  If it does go under it means the nation has gone under and I'll have bigger issues than retirement to worry about.  Which is why I stockpile ammo.   8)

Yeah.my ss future benefit went down because i worked a min wage job for five years.wont be doing that again