How dinosaurs might have evolved.
A thought provoking video/article that I think could relate to the reptilian species of ETs..that Maybe Not all Dinosours were wiped out ! Some become the Reptilian species that we know about ! :o
Not sure if this belongs in the Alien section or under another topic.
Please move accordingly
A hypothetical look at how dinosaurs could have evolved into sophisticated dinosauroids had the meteoroid not wiped them off the planet. From BBC show Horizon - My Pet Dinosaur.
http://uk.screen.yahoo.com/video/playlist/horizon-my-pet-dinosaur/
Probably yes .... or maybe not ... brains the size of Walnuts comes to mind ... being at the top of the Tree they probably would have remained big and stupid until something came along to force an intelligence boost.
Although we ourselves have ancient systems ... the oldest part of our brains is the R-complex ... the reptile component ... for much of our lineage we were the Huntee and not the hunter ... necessity is the mother of invention and evolution ... the prospect of being Dinner concentrates the mind.
But to answer the question ... yes there was plenty time and scope for a Saurian Humanoid to develop into a high Technology Civilization ... also plenty of time for it to collapse and disappear into the mists of the ancient past without a trace.
C..
I'm having more and more of a problem with the Darwinian thing the older I get. The whole macro evolution idea is losing me. I mean here's the perfect idea.. Dinosaurs into men.. Right. Let's dismiss the millions of years in between,and consider the basic premise.
Can one species metamorphosize even small aspects/ traits of another?
In my opinion no. I've never seen it.
Darwin took his ideas from watching and documenting Galapagos finches.
He marveled at how certain strains of the bird had bigger or different shaped bills in order to fulfill thier individual tasks.
I get that.
But I don't get cross species evolution at all.
Show me an interim specimen in any stage of matamorphosis..
The old "missing link" you know.
Half man half ape.
And I've seen Lucy. And I don't buy it.
Just a thought of course. :)
Elvis.
It is weird how such large beasts had such small brains , low IQ when you look at the size of their bodies.
Not all Dinosaurs were large however...some had smaller bodies and maybe larger proportional brains.
Then some were more like lizards as we know today..
some say having a large body if you don't have a large brain takes up the brains capacity just in dealing with the body..not allowing much room for IQ...
It does make one question Darwins theories at times.
As some reptiles like Crocodiles / lizards have survived...since the Dinosaur age.... who knows what may have happened...
Or if E.T did arrive back then what they may have created..
So maybe the reptilian species that we know about could have evolved from that age !
There a rumour one lives on an Island in a Castle In Scotland...
and is very Intellegent ! :)
Quote from: astr0144 on January 23, 2014, 02:38:57 PM
How dinosaurs might have evolved.
Some dinosaurs evolved as birds, some as crocodiles and turtles, not all were extinct.
It's an interesting topic as some Plant Life from that Era still Survive as the Plant they were in that era according to Plant Biologist's.
This plant was thought extinct till recently, my Dad has one of the first generations via seed collecting in his backyard due to his connections in botantical scenes.
http://www.wollemipine.com/index.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCyYISI8dEI
To me it make's much more sense Era's were wiped out to some degree and some survive and some adapt to the extiction level event. Normal Cycles really :D
QuoteI'm having more and more of a problem with the Darwinian thing the older I get.
I am with you Elvis H. It seems even Darwin had some problem with his own theory at the end of his life. It would seem that we have become so accepting and unquestioning of some pretty old theories, that we have just given up. ???
Som,
Yea eras coming to an end and the hardy staying put..
I'm all with that. I mean who's gonna mess with a croc or a great white?
No matter how big you are.
Phedre,
Even Darwin suggested his theories where a work in progress.
Hmm..
You know what it's nice to discuss without the religious aspect creeping in.
Which is what would happen on other forums.
Peggy rules.
Well Elvis, since you mentioned it............."religion" does not have to creep in, as it just IS! :) Whether anyone mentions it or not, ALL know that it is there, and always will be.
So, in this case, I do agree with you and Phedra relative to the OP topic question. From a human thinking standpoint, I compare the Darwinian proposal to be much similar to the Global Warming proposal of today - that is trying make a human idea become recognized fact. Actually, the global-warmers probably have a little more pseudo-basis of fact because in the recent past temperatures have been somewhat warmer in some areas, but that fact certainly does not support direct human influence on such.
No, some ideas of man on so many occasions have come to be recognized as being absolutely wrong - maybe none any more well known than is the "flat-earth" accepted thought at one time. IMO flat earth idea would fit right in with these other two!!
How odd... I did a thread on this but now I cannot find it
Troodon Sapiens
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Reptilians/ReptilianAngelsDinoman.jpg)
(http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Reptilians/Dinosauroid_Reptoid_02.png)
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/02files/Reptilian_Troodon_Sapiens.html
Those skeptics at the end of that film LOL saying it's bogus and what THEY 'think' dinos would have become...
They forgot about the RAPTORS :D
Quote from: zorgon on January 24, 2014, 10:28:04 PM
How odd... I did a thread on this but now I cannot find it
Is this the OP what you are thinking about?? No that was astr0's, still looking........maybe this is it?
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/forum/index.php?topic=1444.msg17450#msg17450
Ok another view,
If what scientist say is true about our brains and the fact we only use 10% of it the the rest is gray baggage. Now take that 10% size and stuff it in a Raptor and you got it. A lot of our inteligence comes with the fingers being able to hold things and then figuring thing out. We became problem solvers and took a step up. Control of fire another step and talking with a large vocabulary.
So does the size of the brain stunt IQ or limit the amount of memory. Like getting a larger Hard Drive. The CPU does all the real work no matter how large it is. Any animal that is smart enough to hunt and kill is close to humans. That is not an easy task to do to survive. Humans just took that trait to the 10 level. We enjoy killing everything in our path. So what is inteligence?
The idea that Raptors would move up the chain makes sence. They were late in the line of Dinos and taking over. I see no real reason why they could not have been or would be in contension with humans. If they didn't get blown off the planet, maybe they would be in charge and we would be their pets.
I think the real question is when does a brain mature enough to be self aware? At that moment it all depends on the world your living in and how you respond to it as to what is next. That is the point of decission. The moment greed came into the picture the brain would mature more to handle this idea and start problem solving and go up the food chain. Content is last. The brain once it is satisfied will stop growing and veg out at that level waiting for more greed to step out again.
Deuem
Quote from: deuem on January 25, 2014, 01:16:17 AM
If what scientist say is true about our brains and the fact we only use 10% of it the the rest is gray baggage.
Do scientist really say that? I think that what they say is that we usually don't use more than 10% or 15% of our brains in any given moment, but we use all parts of the brain.
It's even possible that we don't use it all because of how "expensive" it is to make the brain work, 20% of the energy our bodies use is used by the brain.
Quote from: ArMaP on January 25, 2014, 01:23:50 AM
Do scientist really say that? I think that what they say is that we usually don't use more than 10% or 15% of our brains in any given moment, but we use all parts of the brain.
It's even possible that we don't use it all because of how "expensive" it is to make the brain work, 20% of the energy our bodies use is used by the brain.
I don't know ArMaP, I know a lot of people that seem to use less than 5%.
If it is expensive to use, then why have it? Ok say 20% and the brain cash is flowing. Still got another 80% just taking up space. Now take that 20% or what ever number you want to use and stuff it in a Raptors head and you got one dino on the planet equal to us. Even though our brains seem to have room to grow into the 80%, we are not using it yet. So any animal that is capable of doing the 20% full bore brain usage would be as developed as we think we are now. Using 20% at 100% would be fantastic. No dead space. What i am getting to here is it is not so much the size of the brain, it is how it is used.
We have a brain that can go 100mph or kmh yet we are stuck in traffic diong 10mph/kmh where ever we go. The 90 to 80% is just extra gray weight at the moment. Look at CPUs, they are getting smaller not larger and gettin smarter. I don't think size matters as much as they tell us. The ability to use what you have matters more. A big lump of gray matter does not make you inteligent unles you use it. It just grows until it fills up the scull. Now what made our skulls larger? Aliens with big heads? Gotta love that question.......Maybe some day our brains will actually use all that space the skull gives it. Or maybe it would just get too hot from energy usage and tend to overload, trip a few breakers.
Deuem
Quote from: ArMaP on January 25, 2014, 01:23:50 AM
Do scientist really say that? I think that what they say is that we usually don't use more than 10% or 15% of our brains in any given moment, but we use all parts of the brain.
Well it is funny how the internet changes things :P
Years ago scientists said the average person uses only 5% of his brain while a genius uses about 10-15% of his brain.
Today you see it and its the 10% figure for all and skeptics will say its a MYTH :P
Well what they MEANT was CAPACITY FOR THOUGHT not PHYSICAL SPACE of brain matter. Yes the entire brain is functioning all the time. If it wasn't it would die off.
But you can have a 100 terabyte computer that is capable of running a 1000 tasks simultaneously but you are only using it to calculate your meager budget and play some video games :D
SOME scientists are saying average people are only using 1% of capacity :P
I have met many in that category
::)
Some interesting additional content & discussion..
Thanks for posting the links & Images Zorgon...
I had a feeling that you had some images or had done a similar thread somewhere....
Very thought provoking ! :)
Quote from: deuem on January 25, 2014, 02:07:25 AM
I don't know ArMaP, I know a lot of people that seem to use less than 5%.
Yes, I know many like that. :)
QuoteIf it is expensive to use, then why have it? Ok say 20% and the brain cash is flowing. Still got another 80% just taking up space.
It's not taking space, all of it is used.
Quote from: ArMaP on January 25, 2014, 02:03:15 PM
Yes, I know many like that. :)
It's not taking space, all of it is used.
If it is not at 100% then it is taking up space. 80% of empty disk drives are just sitting there being fed O2 just so it won't die off. If a trickle of electricity fire though it once in awhile just to keep it alive does not count. Take the 5 to 20% compress to full use and pack it in a dinos head and whala. Smart Dino, smaller skull. Very smart.
Quote from: deuem on January 25, 2014, 03:20:45 PM
If it is not at 100% then it is taking up space.
If you are not using your left hand do you think it's only taking up space?
The question is though does the brain evolve first or does it grow as you develop. Why would a dino brain not develop as it learns just like ours does?
Since they were wiped out before they got anywhere there is no way to say they could not have become smart
Our brain today is certainly more functional that a caveman's was... So we need to look at the brain of primitive man compared to one of modern man
And remember the first slow computers were HUGE... today they are getting smaller but more developed :D
Quote from: zorgon on January 25, 2014, 08:19:28 PM
Since they were wiped out before they got anywhere there is no way to say they could not have become smart.
Most birds, crocodiles and turtles are not famous by their intelligence and they are the result of the evolution of the surviving dinosaurs.
, , then there are those that accept that we are a created species. ;D
Years, , uhmmm decades ago, I knew a buy that was a Boeing engineer that had a family, and was good at chees when we played, and then he had an accident that turned him into a 10 year old for the rest of his life.
His brain scan after the accident showed that he had only about a 1/4 inch of grey mater all around the inside of his skull. Less than 10% of normal brain mass.
Yah all can look that up on the net. :P
Quote from: ArMaP on January 25, 2014, 09:08:22 PM
Most birds, crocodiles and turtles are not famous by their intelligence and they are the result of the evolution of the surviving dinosaurs.
I think they are more of a result to which bodies they got stuck in. How large the sculls are and if they can problem slove. Many Birds, crocs and turtles can problem solve better that a lot of humans can. They have to or die. When faced with life and death, the brain either solves a proplem or you die off. Many animals have died off because of this when things lke the weather or food changes and they can not react. While others did react and moved on.
And yes I use my left hand/arm all the time where parts of the brain just run on idle. A lot of unused space in there I try to fill daily. Take a look at ants. They are some of the best problem solvers on the planet. Their problem is no fingers with thumbs or we would all be ant food. With thumbs we are able to solve more complex problems that train the brain even more.
I think humans are also capable of setting up stronger suport groups than other animals. In todays world if you removed all human support structure and placed 100 humans in the wild with nothing, then maybe 90% of them would die off. Only the best problem solvers in the group would make it.
With natures animals more than 50% survive. We know how to leach on each other while others do not. I leach on other humans every day to survive. Meaning I depend on their skills to produce things I can no longer do myself and they do me. Some animals do this but only within small groups. We took it world wide. So the ability to problem solve is the key for us, thumbs help and the size of the skull just gives room for the gray matter to fill it up. What is at the core of all of this is where inteligence comes to play. I see no reason why a dino with the right stuff could not have solved as many problems and end up standing right next to you as your boss.
Rather it be evolution, God or Aliens changing DNA, I see no real reason for excluding them as a possibility. They also had the right stuff to make the jump.
deuem
Quote from: deuem on January 26, 2014, 02:16:45 AM
I think humans are also capable of setting up stronger suport groups than other animals. In todays world if you removed all human support structure and placed 100 humans in the wild with nothing, then maybe 90% of them would die off. Only the best problem solvers in the group would make it.
Without any "support group" I would have died when I 5, as there's not substitute that I know for getting oxygen. I haven't solved that problem. :)
Quote from: ArMaP on January 26, 2014, 01:23:49 PM
Without any "support group" I would have died when I 5, as there's not substitute that I know for getting oxygen. I haven't solved that problem. :)
Ok one of seems lost, say it is me. Let me try again. Humans work together to assist each other. The baker makes the bread. The smith makes the horse shoes. The garbage man hauls away the trash, the Doctor gives you medicine and the teacher teaches you. This is the support group I am talking about.
Socity has risen to a point where almost every person on earth now needs to leach on someone eles talents. We all live within this giant common ground socity we can humans. Everyday of my life I have the need to use something(s) that other people did for me. Like my TV. I can surly turn it on and use it but there is now way on this earth that I could build one from scratch by myself without plans and many other tools that other people had made also.
Do you understand that?
Now take 100 humans from all walks of life. Strip them naked down to the flesh and put them in a place where there is a chance of survival. Tree, fruits, game, plants and so on. How many of the 100 people would survive. The rules are they can not work together, they are spread out and on their own. Maybe husband and wife teams are OK. So lets say 50 teams.
I am saying that most every team would die. They can no longer deal with life the way wild animals do every day. The independant survival skills are now gone. So in a lot of ways even if we think our big sculled brains are so smart, when we are left without the social assistance we would die.
Did Dinos assist each other? Did they work for the betterment of the heard. Lions do this, why not Dinos. Chances are that if the Raptors were meat eaters then enough protien go to the brain to cause it to perk up and become self aware and inteligent. As inteligent as the common earth human.
It is only a hand full of people world wide that put rockets in space. A very high percentage of humans still can't read or write. Consider yourself lucky if you can. In a part of Deuems Book, you are the elite by comparision.
Deuem
So nobody wants to touch the fact that mankind can lead a perfectly normal life with less that 10% brain mass? Ok, , , 8)
Would Dinosaurs have become Humanoid if they had not been wiped out ?
I highly doubt it. They were not designed that way.
Quote from: Norval on January 26, 2014, 03:14:58 PM
So nobody wants to touch the fact that mankind can lead a perfectly normal life with less that 10% brain mass?
No, because that's not true.
QuoteWould Dinosaurs have become Humanoid if they had not been wiped out ?
I highly doubt it. They were not designed that way.
No, the surviving species became birds, crocodiles and turtles.
Quote from: ArMaP on January 26, 2014, 04:16:51 PM
No, because that's not true.
No, the surviving species became birds, crocodiles and turtles.
And who accepts as fact that birds, crocs, and turtles came from what we term as dinosaurs?
Probably the greater question is, like, where did dinos come from in the first place. If one believes that a single cell over eons of morphing through various stages of DNA development and life-forms finally reached the form of a dino, how can one know that the dino didn't morph FROM the human species somewhere back down the line, in its beginning?? And survival of the fittest may should be the more broad point of actual evolutionary production thinking?! Did all of the animals morph up the line from the human species? Are apes, chimps, monkeys, and gorillas all formed up the DNA/genetic line from the human species, rather than the reverse. as science supposes it??
So, with that, I have talked myself into the real answer for the OP question - NO, the dinos would not become humanoid, because that would mean possibly going backwards in their genetic development!! ;)
Quote from: rdunk on January 26, 2014, 06:17:32 PM
And who accepts as fact that birds, crocs, and turtles came from what we term as dinosaurs?
Those that analysed the birds, crocodiles and turtles' ancestors and today's "versions". As I didn't analysed them I have to take their word for it.
QuoteIf one believes that a single cell over eons of morphing through various stages of DNA development and life-forms finally reached the form of a dino, how can one know that the dino didn't morph FROM the human species somewhere back down the line, in its beginning??
From what I understand, because dinosaurs didn't have some of the characteristics that appeared after them, like those common to all mammals. If they had evolved from a mammal they would have some of their ancestors' characteristics.
QuoteDid all of the animals morph up the line from the human species? Are apes, chimps, monkeys, and gorillas all formed up the DNA/genetic line from the human species, rather than the reverse. as science supposes it??
Science doesn't suppose that, science supposes that humans and apes, chimpanzees, etc. had a common ancestor, so we are all some kind of "cousins", not "fathers" and "sons". :)
So ArMaP, you take the word of talking head scientists spouting some "theories" over facts? OK
What you propose is that a wind storm went through a wrecking yard and built a working 747, so much for evolution theories. Not going to happen.
Now on the other hand if one accepts that we were engineered, of created, by some far more technologically advanced sentient intelligent life forms, it would stand to reason that they also designed all other life forms on the planet too. That seems much more reasonable, to me at least. ;D
Once you have the ability to engineer and create life forms as you want, , , , , what's the limit? Look around, are you really going to say that "this all" just "happened"? ::)
oh, you may want to do some research about brain anomolies, it is "true". :P
Quote from: Norval on January 26, 2014, 07:35:00 PM
So ArMaP, you take the word of talking head scientists spouting some "theories" over facts? OK
What facts?
QuoteWhat you propose is that a wind storm went through a wrecking yard and built a working 747, so much for evolution theories. Not going to happen.
I'm not proposing anything.
QuoteNow on the other hand if one accepts that we were engineered, of created, by some far more technologically advanced sentient intelligent life forms, it would stand to reason that they also designed all other life forms on the planet too. That seems much more reasonable, to me at least. ;D
Who designed them?
Quoteoh, you may want to do some research about brain anomolies, it is "true". :P
What "anomolies"?
Quote from: ArMaP on January 26, 2014, 09:57:04 PM
What facts?
I'm not proposing anything.
Who designed them?
What "anomolies"?
1. Reread the posts.
2. But you did, read your own posts.
3. Like you would recognize their names?
4. Take your choice of brain anomalies, missing brain mater would be a good start. ::)
Quote from: Norval on January 26, 2014, 11:07:41 PM
1. Reread the posts.
2. But you did, read your own posts.
3. Like you would recognize their names?
4. Take your choice of brain anomalies, missing brain mater would be a good start. ::)
This is not worth my time. Sometimes I think that if I wrote in Portuguese people would understand me the same as when I write in English...
My participation in this thread ends here.
Are 'Aliens' Dinosaurs & Survivers of an Earthly Cataclysm Returning Home? (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread665809/pg1&mem=)
Do you think humans may someday evolve into an intelligent life form?
rubicon
Do you think humans may someday evolve into an intelligent life form?
rubicon
> if they got rid of the internet and television and phones of any type
> and they had to talk face to face
>if they got rid of all religions
and had to be accountable for themselves
not using an unseen force for good and evil
> if they actually acknowledged what a glorious ride being human is
and that we are all glorious and the same only different
if
if
if
ah hell ... probably not
sigh
Quote from: 08rubicon on June 19, 2015, 02:26:58 PM
Do you think humans may someday evolve into an intelligent life form?
I know plenty of intelligent idiots.
Quote from: space otter on June 19, 2015, 04:57:46 PM
if they got rid of the internet and television and phones of any type
> and they had to talk face to face
Once upon a time.... before the internet... there was a Mystical thing called a BBS These BBS things were kinda like a small LOCAL internet...
The beauty of these was you could talk to people briefly (as it was email driven not chat room driven) and share things you had in common. The main factor was that you could get together with these people that shared your interests at the local coffee shop...
It was this that created my Kingdom... you could gather intelligent beings that shared your dreams and eliminate the noisy trolls...
The current internet has become the new Tower of Babble and has done more harm to intelligence than any other tool in history
Just post ANY real topic on FB and watch the comments :P
Quote>if they got rid of all religions
and had to be accountable for themselves
not using an unseen force for good and evil
Back in the 70's it looked like we were heading that way at the least a lot more tolerance ... but something happened and we are heading back to the Dark Ages as fast as a snowball down a hill
Maybe the Dolphins will be the next dominate life form :P
Quote from: zorgon on June 19, 2015, 06:03:23 PM
Once upon a time.... before the internet... there was a Mystical thing called a BBS These BBS things were kinda like a small LOCAL internet...
Ahh, the glory days of the BBS and the 56K Modem :)
Quote
Back in the 70's it looked like we were heading that way at the least a lot more tolerance ... but something happened and we are heading back to the Dark Ages as fast as a snowball down a hill
Sexually transmitted diseases tend to dumb down a population quicker than you can say Chlamydia!
Quote from: 08rubicon on June 19, 2015, 02:26:58 PM
Do you think humans may someday evolve into an intelligent life form?
rubicon
Borg.
But if we become exstinct before that , it's certainly the dolphins time to rule.
They've been plotting.